Which Turtle is More Likely to Go to the Dark Side

[Sage Ninja]

Ok I was think with all the talk about who would be a better partner to the Shredder made me think which one of the turtles would mostly turn towards the dark side?

As good as the turtles are I think all the turtles have a hidden dark side that they don't like to awknowledge in them selves. I think every one of them at some point has gotten so frustrated with their situations that they have wanted to act upon those negative emotions and do evil.

The turtles certainly experienced this i think during the red sky arc of the classic series when they where being visously persecuted by people. I really believe that was the true reason behind their mutantions going out of control and becomeing all rampage-ish. It was their dark sides manifesting through their mutaions due to their pent up rage and frustrations, which they where despretly trying to control.

So seriously people out of all the turtles which one (or ones) would be more likly to give into their dark sides? Which one of them would be more likey to not give in to their dark sides? Give examples and explainations, hell even character analisis to back your self up with.

Oh, and pleace make clear from what series turtle you are refereing to, whether you are talking about old toon (insert name) or new toon (insert name).

Side Note/ Edit: Is there a way one of the mods could put up a poll for me for this thread with all four turtles as options? I meant to do it but pressed send by acciedent?

[XERO]

Well, first off, let me say that we all have a dark side.

Yin and Yang. Good and Evil.

It's the challenge of controlling it that makes us succumb to it.

As for which one of my brothers, the obvious choice would be Raph. But that's not evil, more like passion. Raph is too emotionally scarred to be evil.

Leonardo probably would never join because as tough as it is to do the right thing, it's even tougher to do the wrong thing. And as much as a perfectionist Leo is, it would be unacceptable and a complete waste of time.

Michelangelo... I'd never see him to join the dark side. I just can't. He is the heart of the team, and the heart doesn't make choices. The brain does. Speaking of the brain...

Donatello. He barely shows emotion. He never fights. He's always quiet. He thinks alot. He's very, very patient.

The true characteristics of a successful evil doer. His ratio is the highest to join. Although I hope it never happens...

Sorry, Don. I just gave you a serious matter to think about.

And as for me?

Being undefeated in videogames is evil enough.

[Sage Ninja]

Donatello. He barely shows emotion. He never fights. He's always quiet. He thinks alot. He's very, very patient.

The true characteristics of a successful evil doer. His ratio is the highest to join. Although I hope it never happens...

Sorry, Don. I just gave you a serious matter to think about.

that depends on what Donatello you are talking about? Donatello from the classic cartoon I can defenatly see him becoming a villan. He just has that way about him. Plus he out of all the turtles is the most intolerant of people and their bull sh*t. Plus he can be violent at times.

Now Donatello from the New series I have a harder time seeing him giveing into his dark side. He just seems very peaceful and nonviolent and diplomatic which I think balances out his his no nonsence logical side.

Michelangelo is the heart of the team, and the heart doesn't make choices. The brain does. Speaking of the brain...

I agree with you on this Michaelangelo doesn't seem like the type of person to go towards the dark side. I think that it would have to be something very extreme and drastic that would make Michaelangelo cave. This true in all the TMNT universes. With that said I don't think he is all heart, I think he has a pretty strong will and mind as well to back it up.

And actually I don't think that Rapahel from the new series would turn toward the dark side. Becuase even though he has allot of negative emotions in him he lets them out and doesn't let them bulid up in side of him. He has an out let with his little bursts of aggression, so it doesn't stay bottled up.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Donatello, definetelly or Raphael from either the cartoon or movie.

[damnhooligan]

I think one of the greatest aspects of the Turtles' personalities is that I could see every one of them being seduced by the "dark side" in one way or another. They aren't infallable, and though they've got a fairly strong moral code, teenagers routinely make bad decisions.

I would see Michaelangelo turning to the dark side, if he fell in with the wrong crowd. He's gregarious and could be pretty susceptable to peer pressure from a local gang or what have you. However, I think that would only happen if he thought he'd been abandoned completely by his family and friends.

Leonardo could be tempted to do wrong if he were persuaded and convinced beyond a doubt that he'd been betrayed by his own brothers and/or Splinter. Loyalty is damned important to him, and to have that trust broken by the one's closest to him could send him flying off the handle.

Donatello, I figure if it weren't for his love for his brothers and relatively easy going nature, he would have realized some time ago that he was surrounded by incompetent fools and would move out so he could work in peace. I don't think he'd actively try to hurt anyone, but I could imagine him releasing nerve gas into NYC, only to release an antidote gas later, to document the physical symptoms and reactions. He'd make an awesome mad scientist.

Contrary to popular opinion, I find it harder to imagine Raphael as a total baddie than any of the other turtles. Yes, he's got a raging temper the size of New Jersey, but after a good temper tantrum, his senses would return. I imagine he'd slip off to that grey area between good and evil, choosing his allies amongst both, but only picking sides when it benefited him. He'd therefore be a slippery sumbitch and hard to trust, because he could very well backstab ya.

[Masked Ninja]

Those are some really good points. I think we have a winner.

Originally Posted by damnhooligan

Donatello, I figure if it weren't for his love for his brothers and relatively easy going nature, he would have realized some time ago that he was surrounded by incompetent fools and would move out so he could work in peace. I don't think he'd actively try to hurt anyone, but I could imagine him releasing nerve gas into NYC, only to release an antidote gas later, to document the physical symptoms and reactions. He'd make an awesome mad scientist.

This took my mind straight to MNT Gaiden...

[Buslady]

I dont think any would go flat out bad.


Raph has passion and anger but he does blow up once in awhile like an earthquake, relieving some of the pressure.
Raph would be more on the neutral side, only thinking of himself. He wouldn't care if he was working for good or bad, just that he was gaining himself either financially or whatever.

Mike, no way.
Don, too busy with his lab to go bad.
Leo, like Raph he is passionate, but he's such a goodygoody do the right thing type of guy, I doubt it.

[The Stryker]

AC's gonna kill me but i think ROB VAN DAM will be the one to go evil.

Seriously i think Mikey would be broken alittle quicker than the rest

Originally Posted by Buslady

Leo, like Raph he is passionate, but he's such a goodygoody do the right thing type of guy, I doubt it.

I'm absolutly sickened by this misconseption of Leo. What sickens me even more is the fact that alot of people keep labling Leo as a goody-goody Dudly Do-right kinda guy. That is such bullcrap. Leo is only as "good" as the rest of his brothers. Just because he's the most responsible one doesn't make him a ****ing saint. On top of that, people seem to stupidly confuse honor as being good. Honor has nothing to do with morality. Both a good person and a bad person can be honorable. There's countless examples that I'd care not to type down. In anycase, Leo isn't even really all that honorable. He's actually fought unarmed opponents while being armed himself. Leo may have some kind of loose sense of honor, but he's not really bound by it.

Leo may seem like such an angel like in the old series when he would whine about the boys going against what Splinter said, or in the new series when Leo would constantly give Karai mercy and a chance to switch sides. But hasn't it come across as to why? Again, Leo is the most responsable one and Splinter puts his trust in Leo to keep the others safe. So, yeah, Leo is going to try to keep the boys in line while trying to set an example himself. Has nothing to do with being "goody-goody". It has everything to do with being responsible, mature, and making Splinter proud. The writers just made Leo really whiny in the old series.
As for Leo helping out Karai so much; again, has nothing to do with Leo being a "perfect little angel". Leo truley believes he can get Karai to go on his side, and Hell, if he pulls it off, that's one less powerful ally for the bad guys and one more for the good guys. But I think the main reason is because Leo is obviously infatuated with Karai. Has Leo ever givin this kind of special treatment to male enemies of the Foot? Nope.

It really irritates me when people make such poor assumptions of Leo. It just shows alot of ignorance towards the character.

No offense directed to you, Buslady. I just see this far too often it's just annoying.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

In all honesty, I'd think Leo or Raph. As it stands, Leo once almost joined forces with Saki. Also, his behavior in "Cousin Sid" shows that it is possible for him to be pushed over the edge.

In "The Darkness Within", we find out that Raph's greatest fear is becoming the enemy. This can be seen in two different ways. One way is that if it weren't possible, why would Raph have that thought in his mind. Another way to look at it is that since his greatest fear is becoming the enemy, he's going to do anything to avoid it.

I'm a little biased towards Mikey, but I really don't see Mikey turning evil. He's always been one to do the right thing. Plus, due to his love of superheroes, I doubt he'd want to be a villain.

As Ben said, Don has the many of the characteristics of a villain, but due to his pacifistic nature, I really don't see him turning evil. He doesn't have that general desire to inflict harm on people. Except in SAINW, where Donny just went nuts and took out Churell after seeing his whole family decimated.

Basically, it's hard to see any of the turtles turning evil unless it were under extreme circumstances.

[Masked Ninja]

Originally Posted by Ryona

But I think the main reason is because Leo is obviously infatuated with Karai. Has Leo ever givin this kind of special treatment to male enemies of the Foot? Nope.

Ugh... see, I never caught this vibe, as much as people talk about it. I think that he's given her so many chances because she's obviously teetering on the edge. We haven't seen any Foot members like that... they're usually quite gung-ho with their "let's kill the Turtles!" thing.

Hmm... the dark side. What if Mikey were fooling us all along? Maybe there's a evil genius under those layers of goofy, fun-loving turtle...

[OA]

I honestly can't see any turing to the dark side...

But whats surprised me most is the lack of votes for Raph...I mean this guy is always walkin a thin line...sure he's passionate and cares for his bros but is it that hard to imagain him turnin bad? I can just see him getting fed up with Leo, stormin off, and doin "bad" things just to spite Leo...and thats just one example...so yea, If one would turn bad (which I dont think they would), it would have to be Raph...maybe a far reach Leo, but deinately not Mikey or Don... I mean to be successfully evil you HAVE to have passion...look at the greatest villians of all time and tell me they are not passionate...and Donny and Mke just don't have that kinda passion...

[Jaf]

I don't believe in any kind of «Dark side». Neo-christian mythology. Given the right circumstances, I think everybody is capable of the worst, or the best. Depending on your set of values, what you consider «good» can be your neighboor's «evil». Of course, as far as children television is concerned, the presence of «villains» is necessary for the catharsis to work.

When you take the TMNT franchise as a whole (and the comics in particular), every turtle has done things that could be considered reprehensible. A few examples :
- Leo allying his team with a criminal yakuza-like organization (the Foot), just because that would grant them a certain «peace of mind» - not very «heroic» in my book [vol.1, #50-62, City at War];
- Don secretly maintaining Baxter alive in a semi-vegetative state because he thought he could benefit from his converstion [vol.4];
- Mike beating a homeless old lady, who was taking care of the dying Klunk, when he taught she was taking him away [tales vol.2, #9];
- Raph randomly killing young Foot rookies [see vol.1, #45 for his «explanation»]

As far as only the new TV show is concerned, Leo is the most susceptible to act in moraly ambiguous ways, because of his deep bushido beliefs : the more solid your set of values is, the more blinded by them you can be. Leo is not the one «who does good»; he is the one «who follows the path». He and Karai are alike in that way. If the pressure becomes unbearable, his devotion to the bushido ethic and leadership abilities could easily leed him in a sectarian way of thinking and acting. (Not to mention that his bushi pretentions are crap : his education and skills are of a freakin' NINJA, i.e. thief and assassin, not of a samurai. This fact is quite heavy to bear for the idealist fearless leader).

[Sage Ninja]

this was a good thread with allot of potentical, lets keep it going

Ryona you make some very good points about Leonardo's and I agree with you I never saw him as this goody-good kind of character eighther, yes he was honarable but he wasn't beyond being dishonest at times. Even in the classic series I wouldn't say that he was all that goody-good like some people make him out to be. There was many a time in the O.T where he would make things up on a spur of the moment just to make himself look right and every one would just go along with him with out questioning him, and yes he could also be a little cocky and a bit of a bully on occasion in the classic toon as well. So don't see why people would say that Leonardo in the classic cartoon was such a goody-two-shoes when he had his personallity flaws.

Also people seem to forget when it comes to Leonardo in medium that he is a ninja not a samuria. And yes he follows a rather strict code odf honor but even that code is in it self flawedand the fact that he follws it so didicatedly leads him to some questianable things that might be considered evil. I know that in the code of chiverally that knights supposedly followed was certainly flawed, and encouged rather sencsless violence and murder in the persuit of rather narrow minded and self serving acts, I don't believe for a second that Leonardo is beyond this. In fact if Leonasro did go towards the dark side it would most likely be because of some misgiuded sence of honor code that he was following.

maybe a far reach Leo, but deinately not Mikey or Don... I mean to be successfully evil you HAVE to have passion...look at the greatest villians of all time and tell me they are not passionate...and Donny and Mke just don't have that kinda passion...

Now that I whole heartedly disagree on. Michaelangelo and Donatello may not have the dame sort of passion that Rapahel and Leonardo have for fighting and ninjitsu, but certainly have passion.

Michaelangelo in both the classic and new toon seem to have this passion to do the right thing for a greater good or cause and be some sort of hero, that is what he is passianate about, I don't go telling me that he is only passianate about pizza, or skate bording, or serfing and comic books. Those are all only surfice qualities about him. No he is all about justice and helping people and that what he is passioante about and what he is all about; he is a humanatarian. Doantello I think its pretty obvious what he is passianate about: learning and technology and gaining more knowledge. He is geniuos and I think he wants to be a even better one.

All in all they are both passianate about something , and you are right passion can lead to villany when you take what you are passianate about to seriuosly and that genarelly leads to faniticism and people who are fanitic often leads to arrogance and the belief that waht they think is right and they try to force it on others and become tyranicall. In other words to the dark side.

[lilonardo]

I'd say Raphael is most likely to turn bad

[jestergoblin]

As long as the four turtles have each other, I don't think anyone will go to the darkside but the loss of one would change everyone.

If Don lost a brother, he would become withdrawn and indifferent towards others. While this was going on, he would allow his more sinister side to come forth, as seen in Volume IV. I imagine he would become like Dark Beast from X-Men.

For Mikey, the loss of a brother would result in him becoming exceptionally impressionable. All it would take would be one person offering him a level of acceptance for Mikey to turn without realizing it.

If Leo lost a brother he would create a wrapped sense of morality. I imagine he would become emotionless towards others and blindly follow out his retribution to the end. Raph would be the same.

[TMNT4787]

I think if Mikey ever went to the dark side it would ruin the TMNT franchise. He is like thier figure head towards children.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

this was a good thread with allot of potentical, lets keep it going

Ryona you make some very good points about Leonardo's and I agree with you I never saw him as this goody-good kind of character eighther, yes he was honarable but he wasn't beyond being dishonest at times. Even in the classic series I wouldn't say that he was all that goody-good like some people make him out to be. There was many a time in the O.T where he would make things up on a spur of the moment just to make himself look right and every one would just go along with him with out questioning him, and yes he could also be a little cocky and a bit of a bully on occasion in the classic toon as well. So don't see why people would say that Leonardo in the classic cartoon was such a goody-two-shoes when he had his personallity flaws.

Also people seem to forget when it comes to Leonardo in medium that he is a ninja not a samuria. And yes he follows a rather strict code odf honor but even that code is in it self flawedand the fact that he follws it so didicatedly leads him to some questianable things that might be considered evil. I know that in the code of chiverally that knights supposedly followed was certainly flawed, and encouged rather sencsless violence and murder in the persuit of rather narrow minded and self serving acts, I don't believe for a second that Leonardo is beyond this. In fact if Leonasro did go towards the dark side it would most likely be because of some misgiuded sence of honor code that he was following.



Now that I whole heartedly disagree on. Michaelangelo and Donatello may not have the dame sort of passion that Rapahel and Leonardo have for fighting and ninjitsu, but certainly have passion.

Michaelangelo in both the classic and new toon seem to have this passion to do the right thing for a greater good or cause and be some sort of hero, that is what he is passianate about, I don't go telling me that he is only passianate about pizza, or skate bording, or serfing and comic books. Those are all only surfice qualities about him. No he is all about justice and helping people and that what he is passioante about and what he is all about; he is a humanatarian. Doantello I think its pretty obvious what he is passianate about: learning and technology and gaining more knowledge. He is geniuos and I think he wants to be a even better one.

All in all they are both passianate about something , and you are right passion can lead to villany when you take what you are passianate about to seriuosly and that genarelly leads to faniticism and people who are fanitic often leads to arrogance and the belief that waht they think is right and they try to force it on others and become tyranicall. In other words to the dark side.

However, what Mikey is passionate about (the greater good), may be what keeps him from going to the darkside. I say Mikey is the least likely to go to the darkside.

[heretic888]

It depends which version of the TMNT you're talking about, really --- Mirage, Archie, old 'toon, new 'toon, movies, etc.

As a whole, though, my guess is that Raphael would be the most likely to go over to the "dark side" (whatever that's supposed to mean). I'd have to agree that Michelangelo is the least likely to do the same.

Of course, Mirage Mikey has demonstrated a "darker" quality on occassion that has added depth to his overall character. Make of that what you will.

Laterz.

[heretic888]

Originally Posted by Benvenuto

Yin and Yang. Good and Evil.

Just a minor point of clarification here, but the tai chi symbol does not refer to "good and evil". It refers to complementarity and the ultimate relativity of all opposites.

Y'know, kinda the exact opposite of any supposed moral absolutism.

Laterz.