(Moved from GTMNTD) Heretic's Art Corner

*heretic888* · 12-09-2002, 09:16 AM

Some of you must think I have some pretty odd notions about what constitutes 'great art'. So, I will quote a few things from my favorite psychologist/philosopher Ken Wilber that might shed some light on my craziness. The first is a foreward from visionary artist Alex Grey's book "The Mission of Art":

"Alex Grey might be the most significant artist alive. In a world gone postmodern, bereft of meaning and value, cut loose on a sea of irony and indifference, Alex is taking a stunning stand: there is a God, there is Spirit, there is a transcendental Ground and Goal of human development and unfolding. Higher realities are available to us, is the message of Alex Grey&#8217;s art. And Alex has set himself the extraordinary task of depicting, in art, these higher truths.

This is art in its original and highest meaning--the subjective revelation of Spirit. When an artist is alive to the spiritual domains, he or she can depict and convey those domains in artistic rendering, which wrestles Spirit into matter and attempts to speak through that medium. When great artists do so, the artwork then reminds us of our own higher possibilities, our own deepest nature, our own most profound Ground, which we all are invited to rediscover. The purpose of truly transcendent art is to express something you are not yet, but that you can become. And this is exactly what Alex does in his truly stunning art. His work, like all great transcendental art, is not merely symbolic or imaginary: it is a direct invitation to recognize and realize a deeper dimension of our very own being. In the eternal trinity of the Good, the True, and the Beautiful, art, while it can be good and true, has always staked out the domain of the Beautiful. Alex&#8217;s art is deeply, profoundly, Beautiful, the surest sign that it is on the trail of Spirit.

I myself have one other personal test of great art: when you first look at it, it simply takes your breath away. One of the great pleasures in my life is showing people Alex&#8217;s art for the first time: they always gasp, wonderfully. And you can almost see them thinking: perhaps there is more to reality, and to myself, than I thought. That is the great, profound, extraordinary service that Alex&#8217;s art serves: it calls us beyond ourselves, it takes us beyond ourselves, to a transpersonal land where Spirit is real, where God is alive, where Buddha smiles and the Tao sings, where our own Original Face shines with a glory that time forgot and space cannot recall. We are confronted with the best that we can be, the deepest we can feel, the highest we can see, and so we go away from Alex&#8217;s vision a little better than we were a minute before.

This places Alex in a rather extraordinary lineage of Western painters whose art is saturated with Spirit. Let us, with all due reverence, bow down deeply when we even hear these names: Hildegard, Michelangelo, Angelico, Bosch, Blake, Rembrandt, Delville, Van Gogh, Mondrian, Malevich, Klee, Brancusi, Marc, Klimt, Kandinsky, Fuchs, Tchelitchew&#8230; and Alex Grey."

This second is a quote from Wilber's book "The Eye of Spirit":

"Great art suspends the reverted eye, the lamented past, the anticipated future; we enter it with the timeless present; we are with God today, perfect in our manner and mode, open to the riches and the glories of a realm that time forgot, but that great art reminds us of: not by it's content, but by what it does in us: suspends the desire to be elsewhere."

This third and final quote is from one of Wilber's essays "To See A World--Art and the I of the Beholder":

"It is not the object expressed, but the depth of the subject expressing it, that most defines art. And this shifts art and art criticism from irony to authenticity -- a rather unnerving move, at least to today&#8217;s eyes. Can art and art criticism survive the loss of irony, the loss of inauthenticity, as its central source? And if today&#8217;s art abandons sardonic surfaces, where will it finally reside?"

**HorseTechie** · 12-09-2002, 10:09 AM

Wow.. yeah, I agree that the art I admire the most is art that leaves me in awe and/or inspires me.

This reminded me of a similar question my HS art teacher asked us to write an essay about: "What is art? How do you define it?"

My answer went along the same idea as this (with empahsis on what inspires one). Unfortuantely, the essay was written in my sketch book... which I have in starge at my parents house. So I can't recall all that I had said there.

*heretic888* · 12-09-2002, 12:44 PM

on a personal note, my favorite graphic artist of all time is Michelangelo (the painter, not the turtle), and my favorite music can be found in the most recent work of Limp Bizkit (as well as much of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and NIN's work).

Zenrick · 12-09-2002, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

on a personal note, my favorite graphic artist of all time is Michelangelo (the painter, not the turtle), and my favorite music can be found in the most recent work of Limp Bizkit (as well as much of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and NIN's work).

Limp Bizkit, very artsy farsty they are. With lyrics like "Keep rollin rollin rollin" and "Like a chump HEY!" hmmmmm. Try out some british music, its gooood stuff. I'm not saying yours sucks, well I think it does, but if its good to you thats all that matters, but I think the brits have everything in the right place when it comes to music.

**Machias Banshee** · 12-09-2002, 02:42 PM

Yes, I remember, tho I'd rather not...

Okay, we're gonna get this all taken care of....no more worries...

love,

new mod.

Kay, first of all, this is gonna move to Gen. Dis. Hope you dont mInd H888...

**Krang** · 12-09-2002, 02:47 PM

Just wanted to mention that Stweep now has a warning for what he posted here and in other topics. I have little tolerance for people who only join these forums to start trouble. I have also banned and IP-banned wallhack44 for his comments.

SeaThreePeeO · 12-09-2002, 02:49 PM

Thank you Krang, for an evil brain you're a star *Smooch*

**Machias Banshee** · 12-09-2002, 02:50 PM

*looks around nervously*

Heh, i hope i did that right.....

**azure turtle** · 12-09-2002, 04:13 PM

Thank you Krang and Machias... I wish I could've been here sooner, but finals week is hell on earth for me. All this sudden fighting isn't making me feel any better, either. *sigh*

But let's talk art, shall we? Anyone into ancient art? I'm sure sculptures and paintings by the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans have a great influence on some of the more modern art...

~~Tokka-B~~ · 12-09-2002, 04:19 PM

Yes, I like mostly anything about ancient cultures, it is really amazing how highly advanced they were!

*Thumbs up to Krang* Thanks man!

**Machias Banshee** · 12-09-2002, 04:44 PM

Heh, no prob...

Hey, I've almost chosen what i'm gong to do for a major! Its possibly a Masters in the Fine Arts! with maybe a writing/Education Minor too, heh, so I'll be checking out and making art of mly ow for futur generations to look at and go "woah... O.o " at....

But yeah, ancient civilization/art is so interesting...Lessee...heh, they've supposedly found heiroglyphics of tanks, airplanes and helicopters somewhere in a tomb in Egypt....you think its an art farce? Or the Real McCoy? I've never been really sure, but after all the alien and Mars Junk thats been passing around the internet/TV/whatever....

Hey, Heretic, what do you think of that? You think some of the Ancient art could be hints at things such as that?

**azure turtle** · 12-09-2002, 05:01 PM

Yay! Machias deserves a golden mango award for discovering a new major!
*hands Machias a shiny gold mango statue*
Here you go.

I've heard of the whole aliens/Egypt controversy, too. I remember watching a program where a prince's tomb had a picture of a flying saucer.

**Machias Banshee** · 12-09-2002, 05:19 PM

*accepts golden mango happily, and smooches Azure*

Thank you thank you, i do my best...

Heh, yeah, i wouldnt doubt it...i mean, look at all the modern convieniences some of the major empires had before they fell. Rapm had kick-arse plumbing and such...who knows wht the legendary city of atlantis could have had?

~~Tokka-B~~ · 12-09-2002, 05:33 PM

Yea, they seem to think that aliens landed here from Mars and built the pyramids, and that the face of the Sphinx was the face on Mars or whatever, I think that is a total load of ********!

But, I think the Legendary city of Atlantis is fun to imagine, it would be cool if it existed, even Albert Einstein once said that there is a possibility, but then again he was a physicist. Nothing is really certain to him,

*heretic888* · 12-09-2002, 08:06 PM

Quote:

But let's talk art, shall we? Anyone into ancient art? I'm sure sculptures and paintings by the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans have a great influence on some of the more modern art...

I have a great love for Renaissance art, mostly. Michelangelo was the king. The paintings of ancient civilizations tend to fail to impress me, but their architectual genius is amazing.....

Quote:

Yes, I like mostly anything about ancient cultures, it is really amazing how highly advanced they were!

Not really, when you think about it.....

Quote:

But yeah, ancient civilization/art is so interesting...Lessee...heh, they've supposedly found heiroglyphics of tanks, airplanes and helicopters somewhere in a tomb in Egypt....you think its an art farce? Or the Real McCoy? I've never been really sure, but after all the alien and Mars Junk thats been passing around the internet/TV/whatever....

Hey, Heretic, what do you think of that? You think some of the Ancient art could be hints at things such as that?

No, I don't.

Quote:

I've heard of the whole aliens/Egypt controversy, too. I remember watching a program where a prince's tomb had a picture of a flying saucer.

Hmmm. Yes, its amazing how most modern scholars dont possess the ability to read myths metaphorically..... and project ridiculous theories about aliens and ufos without the slightest bit or empirical evidence.

Quote:

Heh, yeah, i wouldnt doubt it...i mean, look at all the modern convieniences some of the major empires had before they fell. Rapm had kick-arse plumbing and such...who knows wht the legendary city of atlantis could have had?

Atlantis never existed. It was a metaphor.

Quote:

Yea, they seem to think that aliens landed here from Mars and built the pyramids, and that the face of the Sphinx was the face on Mars or whatever, I think that is a total load of ********

I agree.

BigThew · 12-09-2002, 08:15 PM

Alex Ross kicks so much butt...

his art is amazing

jim lee, j.scott campbell, joe madureira, micheal turner kicks ass too

(i don't knwo if that was random or not, i am to leazy to read everyones replies)

*heretic888* · 12-09-2002, 08:24 PM

you should all check out painter alex grey's work... it truly is amazing.

Zenrick · 12-10-2002, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

you should all check out painter alex grey's work... it truly is amazing.

What about Bob Ross?

me looooves his afro! I'm more a fan of modern not-so-artsy art......like I cant stand these people that make stuff that doesnt CLEARLY have significant meaning......like a giant sculpture on a spoon that is like 50 times its normal size or more. Maybe someone wants to feed God some pudding?? hmmmmm.......I'm very much into the artist.....grrrrr, forgot his name.......he draws sweet wierd junk like 2 hands that are drawing each other and such.......very creative fellow! I dont understnad a lot of his work, but its just visually astonishing, takes a ton more creativity than a landscape

*heretic888* · 12-10-2002, 11:02 AM

Quote:

ike I cant stand these people that make stuff that doesnt CLEARLY have significant meaning......like a giant sculpture on a spoon that is like 50 times its normal size or more.

I agree. That is an example of very sardonic and pathological postmodernism. There is some very good postmodern art, mind you.....

Quote:

Maybe someone wants to feed God some pudding??

I know you're joking here, but God is a metaphor!!

(sorry, just couldnt help myself)

Zenrick · 12-10-2002, 01:06 PM

Quote:

I know you're joking here, but God is a metaphor!!

(sorry, just couldnt help myself)

hahaha.......well then let me re-phrase....."is someone trying to feed Roseanne some pudding?? there

12-09-2002, 09:16 AM	#1
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	(Moved from GTMNTD) Heretic's Art Corner Some of you must think I have some pretty odd notions about what constitutes 'great art'. So, I will quote a few things from my favorite psychologist/philosopher Ken Wilber that might shed some light on my craziness. The first is a foreward from visionary artist Alex Grey's book "The Mission of Art": "Alex Grey might be the most significant artist alive. In a world gone postmodern, bereft of meaning and value, cut loose on a sea of irony and indifference, Alex is taking a stunning stand: there is a God, there is Spirit, there is a transcendental Ground and Goal of human development and unfolding. Higher realities are available to us, is the message of Alex Grey&#8217;s art. And Alex has set himself the extraordinary task of depicting, in art, these higher truths. This is art in its original and highest meaning--the subjective revelation of Spirit. When an artist is alive to the spiritual domains, he or she can depict and convey those domains in artistic rendering, which wrestles Spirit into matter and attempts to speak through that medium. When great artists do so, the artwork then reminds us of our own higher possibilities, our own deepest nature, our own most profound Ground, which we all are invited to rediscover. The purpose of truly transcendent art is to express something you are not yet, but that you can become. And this is exactly what Alex does in his truly stunning art. His work, like all great transcendental art, is not merely symbolic or imaginary: it is a direct invitation to recognize and realize a deeper dimension of our very own being. In the eternal trinity of the Good, the True, and the Beautiful, art, while it can be good and true, has always staked out the domain of the Beautiful. Alex&#8217;s art is deeply, profoundly, Beautiful, the surest sign that it is on the trail of Spirit. I myself have one other personal test of great art: when you first look at it, it simply takes your breath away. One of the great pleasures in my life is showing people Alex&#8217;s art for the first time: they always gasp, wonderfully. And you can almost see them thinking: perhaps there is more to reality, and to myself, than I thought. That is the great, profound, extraordinary service that Alex&#8217;s art serves: it calls us beyond ourselves, it takes us beyond ourselves, to a transpersonal land where Spirit is real, where God is alive, where Buddha smiles and the Tao sings, where our own Original Face shines with a glory that time forgot and space cannot recall. We are confronted with the best that we can be, the deepest we can feel, the highest we can see, and so we go away from Alex&#8217;s vision a little better than we were a minute before. This places Alex in a rather extraordinary lineage of Western painters whose art is saturated with Spirit. Let us, with all due reverence, bow down deeply when we even hear these names: Hildegard, Michelangelo, Angelico, Bosch, Blake, Rembrandt, Delville, Van Gogh, Mondrian, Malevich, Klee, Brancusi, Marc, Klimt, Kandinsky, Fuchs, Tchelitchew&#8230; and Alex Grey." This second is a quote from Wilber's book "The Eye of Spirit": "Great art suspends the reverted eye, the lamented past, the anticipated future; we enter it with the timeless present; we are with God today, perfect in our manner and mode, open to the riches and the glories of a realm that time forgot, but that great art reminds us of: not by it's content, but by what it does in us: suspends the desire to be elsewhere." This third and final quote is from one of Wilber's essays "To See A World--Art and the I of the Beholder": "It is not the object expressed, but the depth of the subject expressing it, that most defines art. And this shifts art and art criticism from irony to authenticity -- a rather unnerving move, at least to today&#8217;s eyes. Can art and art criticism survive the loss of irony, the loss of inauthenticity, as its central source? And if today&#8217;s art abandons sardonic surfaces, where will it finally reside?" __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

12-09-2002, 12:44 PM	#3
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm on a personal note, my favorite graphic artist of all time is Michelangelo (the painter, not the turtle), and my favorite music can be found in the most recent work of Limp Bizkit (as well as much of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and NIN's work). __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

12-09-2002, 02:47 PM	#6
Krang Admin and Sega Guru Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dimension X Posts: 3,755	Just wanted to mention that Stweep now has a warning for what he posted here and in other topics. I have little tolerance for people who only join these forums to start trouble. I have also banned and IP-banned wallhack44 for his comments. __________________ "My motherboard's microchips are chomping at the... 'bit'. A little computer humor." --Krang, Welcome Back, Polarisoids

12-09-2002, 02:49 PM	#7
SeaThreePeeO Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Void Posts: 1,345	Thank you Krang, for an evil brain you're a star Smooch __________________ Zombies, once you get past the stench of rotting flesh and their unhealthy obsession with brains, they're really nice people.

12-09-2002, 04:13 PM	#9
azure turtle Mango Lovin' Mutant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 9,453	Thank you Krang and Machias... I wish I could've been here sooner, but finals week is hell on earth for me. All this sudden fighting isn't making me feel any better, either. sigh But let's talk art, shall we? Anyone into ancient art? I'm sure sculptures and paintings by the Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans have a great influence on some of the more modern art... __________________ "God, I love being a turtle!" Want to meet the only blue ninja turtle in existence? Come visit me at my Lair!

12-09-2002, 10:09 AM	#2
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Wow.. yeah, I agree that the art I admire the most is art that leaves me in awe and/or inspires me. This reminded me of a similar question my HS art teacher asked us to write an essay about: "What is art? How do you define it?" My answer went along the same idea as this (with empahsis on what inspires one). Unfortuantely, the essay was written in my sketch book... which I have in starge at my parents house. So I can't recall all that I had said there.

12-09-2002, 02:42 PM	#5
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Yes, I remember, tho I'd rather not... Okay, we're gonna get this all taken care of....no more worries... love, new mod. Kay, first of all, this is gonna move to Gen. Dis. Hope you dont mInd H888...

12-09-2002, 02:50 PM	#8
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	looks around nervously Heh, i hope i did that right.....

12-09-2002, 04:19 PM	#10
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Yes, I like mostly anything about ancient cultures, it is really amazing how highly advanced they were! Thumbs up to Krang Thanks man!

12-09-2002, 04:44 PM	#11
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Heh, no prob... Hey, I've almost chosen what i'm gong to do for a major! Its possibly a Masters in the Fine Arts! with maybe a writing/Education Minor too, heh, so I'll be checking out and making art of mly ow for futur generations to look at and go "woah... O.o " at.... But yeah, ancient civilization/art is so interesting...Lessee...heh, they've supposedly found heiroglyphics of tanks, airplanes and helicopters somewhere in a tomb in Egypt....you think its an art farce? Or the Real McCoy? I've never been really sure, but after all the alien and Mars Junk thats been passing around the internet/TV/whatever.... Hey, Heretic, what do you think of that? You think some of the Ancient art could be hints at things such as that?

12-09-2002, 05:01 PM	#12
azure turtle Mango Lovin' Mutant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 9,453	Yay! Machias deserves a golden mango award for discovering a new major! hands Machias a shiny gold mango statue Here you go. I've heard of the whole aliens/Egypt controversy, too. I remember watching a program where a prince's tomb had a picture of a flying saucer. __________________ "God, I love being a turtle!" Want to meet the only blue ninja turtle in existence? Come visit me at my Lair!

12-09-2002, 05:19 PM	#13
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	accepts golden mango happily, and smooches Azure Thank you thank you, i do my best... Heh, yeah, i wouldnt doubt it...i mean, look at all the modern convieniences some of the major empires had before they fell. Rapm had kick-arse plumbing and such...who knows wht the legendary city of atlantis could have had?

12-09-2002, 05:33 PM	#14
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Yea, they seem to think that aliens landed here from Mars and built the pyramids, and that the face of the Sphinx was the face on Mars or whatever, I think that is a total load of ********! But, I think the Legendary city of Atlantis is fun to imagine, it would be cool if it existed, even Albert Einstein once said that there is a possibility, but then again he was a physicist. Nothing is really certain to him,

12-09-2002, 08:15 PM	#16
BigThew Stone Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 574	Alex Ross kicks so much butt... his art is amazing jim lee, j.scott campbell, joe madureira, micheal turner kicks ass too (i don't knwo if that was random or not, i am to leazy to read everyones replies)

12-09-2002, 08:24 PM	#17
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmm you should all check out painter alex grey's work... it truly is amazing. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)