In honor of Challenger

[Rikirk]

To the crews of Challenger, Columbia, and all Astronauts and Cosmonauts who have given their lives in the pursuit of knowledge.






"Sometimes when we reach for the stars, we fall short, but we must pick ourselves up again and press on despite the pain," he said. "Our nation is indeed fortunate that we can still draw on an immense reservoir of courage, character and fortitude - that we are still blessed with heroes like those of the space shuttle Challenger. Man will continue his conquest of space. To reach out for new goals and ever greater achievements, that is the way we shall commemorate our seven Challenger heroes." - President Reagan, to NASA workers and Challenger astronaut families at the Johnson Space Center.

[Anarky]

I say we should care about people on earth and earthy problems before we shoot people to the moon. The moon will still be there when the world's saved.

Those were wasted lives, if you ask me.

[Dr. Doom]

Way to kill the room, cheif.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Way to kill the room, cheif.

I do my best, but I really can't stand the whole "They died a heroic death"-blahblah. Their deaths weren't heroic, they were a waste. Those were good scientists who could've used their brains to help mankind on earth, but instead they're told that some dead rock floating around in the sky which will still be around in a thousand years is more important than anything earth has to offer. So they are shot up there and they explode. And then of course, you see people waving flags and parades for them, to honour them... and yet, nobody's been helped. We still sit here with nuclear weapons, starving people, working poor and wars raging everywhere.

But yeah, if that's heroism, dying a useless death, then those were real heroes. Wasted potential, money and people... pure heroism.

[Rikirk]

I agree with Anarky, we should solve the planets problems, but that still doesnt mean we should stop our exploration of space, if we have the resources to do it. It is my opinion to continue space exploration to advance our technology and research levels.

Now about the moon, depending on whether or not we have the resources we should build a permanent presence there. If we dont...The Chinese certainly will. And what Im going to say may offend some...but I really dont care, they are my opinions. I for one dont fancy the fact of having a Chinese base over my head that may have weapons pointed at me. As far as im concerned, We set foot on the moon first, so we have rightfull claim.

Once we have a presence on the moon, that could be the first step in colonizing the solar system, lord knows that would help relieve the overpopulation of this planet.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by Rikirk

Now about the moon, depending on whether or not we have the resources we should build a permanent presence there. If we dont...The Chinese certainly will. And what Im going to say may offend some...but I really dont care, they are my opinions. I for one dont fancy the fact of having a Chinese base over my head that may have weapons pointed at me. As far as im concerned, We set foot on the moon first, so we have rightfull claim.

Yeah, right. And I'm older than a lot of people I hate. What allows them to stay on my planet? I don't want them here, I have a rightful claim, let's shoot them!

And the chinese have other things to worry about that a moonbase.

Once we have a presence on the moon, that could be the first step in colonizing the solar system, lord knows that would help relieve the overpopulation of this planet.

I have an idea, let's shoot more people into space and let them blow up there. Then there will be hundreds starving and the overpopulation-problem's solved. Rather macabre, eh?

Sure, space travel and stuff are really interesting, but space will be there forever. We could all cut back on that stuff until some of the most urgent things (like wars, water and hunger) are gone.

[Dr. Doom]

I really wouldn't spend any time worrying about anyone's presence on the moon.

Except for Rita and Lord Zedd.



They'z crazy.

[GK Punk]

...It's morphin time!

[Rikirk]

I respect your views Anarky, I agree in part..but not in whole. Explorers always take immense risks, Im just glad there are those who choose to take them on. Im not saying that the U.S. government always makes the right decisions, no government does, but I feel space sciences will advance us more than hinder us, The Astronauts were scientists doing their jobs and they were let down by bueracracy that got complacent in the routine of Shuttle launchings. Shuttle launchings are not routine nor should they ever be. Humans are being sent into the most hostile environment there is just as scientists who explore the oceans.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Anarky

I do my best, but I really can't stand the whole "They died a heroic death"-blahblah. Their deaths weren't heroic, they were a waste.

You'll Pay For This Captain Planet

...Kind of need to remove that middle plane in the bright flash of light, you know...just for reallistic effect, heh heh...

...Yeah, it was a waste of lives, ill preperation, theres' no heroism to be found in tragic accidents, even ones of that magnitude. Space should be the next frontier, maybe forging "inspirations" out of these accidents motivates new astronaughts, heck it probably does, but that does'nt mean its' right

[Voltron]

What we do in space is help people here on Earth. Many experiments performed in the space stations and shuttles center around medical and agricultural research. In fact, many of today's scientific advancements have come from space travel. To say that these people died a worthless death is a very grave accusation, as well. They knew the risks. They knew the benefits. They died doing what they loved to do.

[Masked Ninja]

Twenty years... has it been so long?

I have healthy respect for those who died. They knew the risks, but they went on and did it anyway. They trained for a good portion of their lives to be able to do so. They were there because they wanted to be. Not to mention how sad it was that the teacher who was on board was watched being blown to bits live by her whole school...

Wait until war, hunger, etc. are over, pshaw. Those problems aren't going anywhere as long as there are stupid people in the world. Might as well let scientists learn about the world and space around us.

Even if you don't respect what the astronauts were doing, they are lives tragically lost all the same. I know that simply invites a spiel about how lives are lost everyday in dark corners where most don't see, which is true. But that doesn't make these people any less worthy of mourning.

[Mecha Cow]

I do my best, but I really can't stand the whole "They died a heroic death"-blahblah. Their deaths weren't heroic, they were a waste. Those were good scientists who could've used their brains to help mankind on earth, but instead they're told that some dead rock floating around in the sky which will still be around in a thousand years is more important than anything earth has to offer. So they are shot up there and they explode. And then of course, you see people waving flags and parades for them, to honour them... and yet, nobody's been helped. We still sit here with nuclear weapons, starving people, working poor and wars raging everywhere.

I'm sorry, but by that logic everyone who has died without at least finding a cure for cancer has died in vain. I'm not neccesarily saying they should be hailed as heroes, but to say their lives were wasted is a bit extreme. No-one has the right to judge others like that.

[Fledermaus]

Why go to the moon? Why experiment with anything? Why should it matter that anyone explore anything that isn't OBVIOUSLY practical? History of science and discovery. You never know how much something can help until you apply it. We just can't predict how much a discovery could change our lives for the better. Also, a lot of the technology that goes into space programs in turn makes its way to the public. SO many examples. Let me find my physics teacher, first.

However, I believe in the "build up, not out" theory -- I'm for exploration, but before we sprawl ourselves across the solar system, I agree, it would definitely help to solve problems here at home. So both are important.

EDIT: You can thank the DoD and the Arms Race for the internet. Space and Defense programs encouraged investment and exploration into such technology before people even IMAGINED the world wide web, or what a fast and highly efficient (near-instantaneous) communications system could do to help people communicate globally. We wouldn't have a TECHNODROME if it weren't for the government wasting its money.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Rikirk

Now about the moon, depending on whether or not we have the resources we should build a permanent presence there. If we dont...The Chinese certainly will. And what Im going to say may offend some...but I really dont care, they are my opinions. I for one dont fancy the fact of having a Chinese base over my head that may have weapons pointed at me. As far as im concerned, We set foot on the moon first, so we have rightfull claim.

That reminded me of an old joke. Veeeery old:

The Soviets landed on the Moon and painted it all red - as a symbol of communist victory over the capitalist world. The Americans were furious but came up with a brilliant idea. Soon, they landed on the Moon as well and painted "Coca-Cola" white logo on the red background. The Soviets were furious this time.

Ahem... sorry, I just had to write it

Back on topic a little - the Chinese on the Moon? Possible but not likely. I agree their cosmic programme may appear rather ambitious and they are clearly striving for their presence on our only natural satellite, but they are dealing with so many internal problems now (and will deal with even more of them in the future) that they just won't made it.

Besides, locating any arms on the Moon would be just a total waste of capital and effort in my opinion, as the Moon ain't a strategically good place for bombarding the other countries. Earth's orbit, yes, I concur. But not the Moon.

Originally Posted by Rikirk

Once we have a presence on the moon, that could be the first step in colonizing the solar system, lord knows that would help relieve the overpopulation of this planet.

That would require trillions of dollars to invest and helluva time (a few decades, methinks) to built up a tiny colonies on the other planets that could adapt their rather unfriendly environments.
By this time, the problem of overpopulation is going to solve itself. By means of local wars.

[Katie]

hmmm. Challenger. I remember well where I was that day...in 4th grade, having a spelling test. such a tragedy *shakes head*.

I spent a good chunk of my life in Huntsville, AL. They make the shuttle solid rocket boosters there. at the time Thiokal was in charge of it, contracted out to NASA. As an adult, I had the pleasure of having the lead engineer on the SRB team from back then as a customer of mine at a bank i worked for. He used to tell me the most interesting stories as i went over his stock portfolio

I'll never forget how haunted he was by the deaths of those astronauts. I think it was right after the Colombia disaster, he came in and sat down and looked like he just needed to talk about Challenger again...you see, it was his call that the shuttle was good to go that day, even though some of his lower level engineers were concerned. He said he was always haunted by the fact that he did not press things further...but he did the best with what he had. the launch was within their known perameters.

Those astronauts went in the shuttle because they loved the idea of seeing things no one had seen before, doing things that could help people back home. I think they were heros.

[ZariusTwo]

Noone is a hero for being blown to kingdom come, heroes have to do something that truly inspires the american cosmonaught, braving the dangers of a jagged edge, in any substantial metaphore, makes someone just look reckless, what if one of those engineers got to one of them, and they backed out on their more reliable word? Would they be heroes then for staying alive? No, only in the eyes of the sane.

If the engineer did'nt listen to the people who clearly were down there working on the shuttle and knews things were awry, both he and the people he was answering to are common murderors.

[Masked Ninja]

I'm glad of all the sensitivity in this thread. Cynical people make my day.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

I'm glad of all the sensitivity in this thread. Cynical people make my day.

So you expect me to lie in order to be conform to the general "They were heroes"-blahblah. I tell you what, I do feel bad about hte people that died, just as I feel bad about everybody who dies I don't know. But everyone waving a stupid flag and wearing a silly head and a t-shirt "I *heart* heroes" is just some brainwashed moron. Those people don't have anything from those people at parades. They'd have more if they weren't blown to pieces. Now, I'm not saying that they were sent to death and that they didn't know the risks, I simply say that the doctors and scientists blown to bits in those explosions, they could have used their potential in another way, helping people in a different form.

And no, I'm not cynical, if I was I'd be talking about shooting someone. I am just being honest. And that's also why I don't write "Oh, I'm sorry for his/her family" when some so-called star dies, because I'm not. Simple as that. I'm not sorry for them dying. They died, so what? None of my business, is it? Their lives wouldn't be any of our business so their death isn't.

But you all can be as shallow as you want, wave on your flag. Just don't expect me to take part in it. Don't expect me to tell you I feel sorry for something I don't feel sorry for, that I should support something I don't or that I should say something I don't want to say.

[Fledermaus]

Well... they did die... in the pursuit of knowledge. That's why we explore space. Because we don't know what's out there, and we want to learn. Not live isolated in ignorance of reality around us.

However... as existentialism and general snobbery seem to be the latest intellectual trend... knowledge of anything "outside" is irrelevant, correct? Ah, the enlightenment of the dark ages... Expand knowledge. Once, it was viewed as Teufelswerk. Then, as ages went on... learning and exploring came to be treasured -- then overdone as entire cultures were wiped out by others.

Learning? Teufelwerk? Or a Holy Crusade? Probably a middle line would be best. I'm thankful for those who risked getting zapped by lightning bolts, who probed behind their own eyeballs to find the optic nerve... Hey, to us more "practical" people, these kinds of people might seem like idiots.

But were it not for their idiocy and risk-taking, doing things that, at the moment, seemed to have no practical purpose... We'd all still be in caves. Or even extinct. Someone's gotta sacrifice so the rest of us get to mooch off the benefits.

But, snobbery is the trend. Respect? Pfft! Just some silly device made for the controlling of the masses, of course.

Some believe we would have been better off if we never learned how to use fire, the wheel, or other technologies... I dunno. We'd be living in a world without space blankets, shoes that protect your feet, freeze-dried and preserved food to feed people, the freakin internet... and animation. Dang. So that's where I draw the line. Exploration and the seemingly stupid undertakings that "idiots" engage themselves in can be very helpful. We just can't predict EVERY use that can come out of such explorations.


Finally... there's no changing some peoples' opinions, methinks. So... uh...

Peace, as they say.