Karai - what to expect

[onyx]

First of all, let me share my stance - TMNT without the Shredder is dull, so I'm glad that he's back Even if it's she, we got a human Shredder (I've seen many complain about him being an Utrom), with human strength and weakness.

But do you think this will last? Will Karai continue to be the Shredder and the main enemy of the Turtles, or will she finally realise that she's wrong and at least keep neutral stance in the fight between the Turtles and their other enemies (Bishop, Stockman, Hun...). Personally, I'd prefer to have the Shredder as Karai rather than no Shredder at all, what do you think?

[TheGreenMagic]

Well, considering the Karai of the comcs, I figure it's only a matter of time before she's an ally of the TMNT again in the cartoon. Unless Laird turns Karai evil in Volume 4 to match her staying evil in the cartoon. But how many times can we see Leo and Karai throw down and him offer her another chance since we know he can beat her without things becoming old hat?

I have to admit, it would be interesting to see Karai stay as the the Shredder while still allying herself with the TMNT. Quite possibly an uncomfortable compromise I know some of the TMNT wouldn't take to all that easily, but it would be interesting. No one ever said the "Watch out for Shredder!" part in the intro has to be directed to the TMNT themselves, after all. Not that Bishop or Hun would want to be watching out.

Still, if they needed a new evil Shredder for the TMNT... the writers could always find a clever way to bring in their version of Oroku Nagi. I'm sure it could be done, one way or another.

I like the way you think, TheLastSonof84.

And I agree with both of you. No Shredder would make the series less tasteful.

[Machias Banshee]

Ooh... I second that, TheLastSon... I'd LOVE to see Oroku Nagi in the new Series somehow.

Shredder is definitely important to the show. I'm looking forward to how Karai continues her crusade in his honor...

[redsai4lex]

I totally think Karai will remain as Shredder...
The theme music proves that, but
next time she tries anything...I want her to die..!!

she should take Leo's advise before he whups
her @$$ flawless victory again...

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by TheLastSonof84

Well, considering the Karai of the comcs, I figure it's only a matter of time before she's an ally of the TMNT again in the cartoon.her.

This show is becoming more of its' own animal by the day.

Thats' not happening.

[Toonami Tom]

I think she will leave the turtles alone for at least the rest of this season. Then she will do some thinking and her anger and desire for revenge will take over again. Then Leonardo will view her as an equal evil as her utrom father.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by onyx

First of all, let me share my stance - TMNT without the Shredder is dull, so I'm glad that he's back Even if it's she, we got a human Shredder (I've seen many complain about him being an Utrom), with human strength and weakness.

But do you think this will last? Will Karai continue to be the Shredder and the main enemy of the Turtles, or will she finally realise that she's wrong and at least keep neutral stance in the fight between the Turtles and their other enemies (Bishop, Stockman, Hun...). Personally, I'd prefer to have the Shredder as Karai rather than no Shredder at all, what do you think?

TMNT without Shredder is TMNT. He's not that important for the show, since it was based on the comics, sooner or later he'll have to be gotten rid of in some way. This isn't the old series, the TMNT can move on, they don't need him forever.

Besides, Bishop, Stockman, Hun, and the Rat King are still there, and they're all great. Shredder is a main TMNT villian, but he's been dead in the comicsfor like 20 years. And the TMNT have managed. They can manage without him in the new show.

[Seurat]

I think she'll at least remain evil for the remainder of the season. Whether or not she'll turn good afterward remains to be seen, but I'm fairly certain her playing "She-redder" will last until this season ends. Though I wouldn't be surprised if she questions herself several times along the way.

[Toonami Tom]

I just don't want to see any more random stupid villians like the space alien chick with the lightsaber or Garbageman.

Bishop, Stockman, Hun, and Ratking are all great.

Edit: And I will be very annoyed if they bring back those redneck villians from the goldenpuck episode.

[Jester]

I've written into my figure play an Oroku Nagi. He was the desendant of the Original, murdered and defamed Oroku Saki. He came to New York to seek out Saki and his "heir" to take them out and reclaim the Foot clan. I actually had him team with the Turtles to stop Ch'rel, untill he was killed by Karai.

But on the topic of the show, who knows. I think she'll remain Shredder until Shredder ain't cool...or Fast Forward.

[Toonami Tom]

So you have your own alternate series going on with action figures that you play out? Cool!

Edit: What figure did you use for Oroku Nagi?

[TheGreenMagic]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

This show is becoming more of its' own animal by the day.

Thats' not happening.

True enough that the show is taking on its identity of sorts, but you can only go so far in changing a character before they resemble the original in name (and possibly design) only.

Understandably, some things have to be changed or altered, even if just a bit or maybe quite a bit, to keeps things new and popping fresh or whatever... and thus keep the viewers on their toes. Going into the show and knowing exactly how things are going to turn out because it's rigidly based on the comics of old wouldn't be all that hot, no. But despite changes to the original version of the characters in the transition to the new show, the basics generally remain. The TMNT may have their multicolored bandannas, but their personalities are pretty much the same. Shredder may have turned out to be an Utrom, but he was still the same evil leader of the Foot Clan with a grudge against the Hamato Clan... just with a few more grudges to carry out on an interstellar level.

Some paths may be different from the ones they took in the comics, case in point: Leo and Karai in Season 4... or even just Shredder being alive to interact with Karai on screen without the need for flashbacks, but more often than not, they'll probably end up in at least similar places as they are in the source material. Provided, of course, that Laird doens't turn Karai and the Foot back to being the Turtles' chief enemies in the fourth volume of the comic to coincide with the cartoon. Which could be a possibility, considering the Battle Nexus is now a part of the comic series.

Still, if Karai continues down the path of self-destruction that Leo just got off of and isn't going to get off it ever... it does make Leo's last attempt at appealling to the old Karai somewhat pointless. It served a purpose in Rogue in the House since it further deeped their mutual respect for each other and their friendship and in turn set up the backbone of Season 3, what with Karai trying to continue to serve the Shredder while aiding the TMNT. But now, I'd say it's pretty much do or die.

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Ooh... I second that, TheLastSon... I'd LOVE to see Oroku Nagi in the new Series somehow.

You know, one way they could do it would be to reveal that Oroku Nagi and Oroku Saki were Guardians. Heck, maybe even make then allies of Hamato Yoshi... perhaps bring in Tang Shen as well and set up the rivalry between Nagi and Yoshi over her (though play it down from the murderous intents Nagi had in the comics).

Since we never actually saw the Ch'rell as Oroku Saki during the flashback computer simulations in Secret Origins, it could be inferred that he went by many different names over the centuries... or just stuck with the enigmatic title Shredder to create and lead the Foot Clan, leaving his identity to the world a mystery. So he comes to a plan... he has a Utrom shell designed in the form of the guardian Oroku Saki and kills him to take his place and thus get closer to the Utroms in his goals for revenge. His plan fails for whatever reason... perhaps Hamato Yoshi discovers his plan and stops him. Ch'rell escapes, the Utroms relocate since he was this close to getting them. Ch'rell, trying to make lemonade from the lemon his plan has become, adopts the Saki identity and makes it his own, saying that Saki is the new Shredder. One, so he can move about more freely in the world. And two, as a constant reminder to the Utroms just how close he came to destroying them.

Oroku Nagi takes offense to this and is infuriated by the Utroms letting Ch'rell get away after he killed his brother. This, coupled with his jealousy of the love Shen has for Yoshi... Nagi has had enough and leaves behind his role as a Guardian, adopting a single minded need to destroy Ch'rell himself as the alien continues to ruin the name of his brother. Heck, toss in him attacking the lead Utroms in his anger before he leaves, only to be stopped and defeated by Hamato Yoshi and you have that rivalry hitting its stride, so to speak.

During the following years, Ch'rell uses the Oroku Saki name to lead the Foot and adopt Karai. Remembering his encounter with Hamato Yoshi, he tracks him down to learn the new location of the Utroms and in turn kills Yoshi.

For years Nagi hunts Ch'rell, his pursuit always ending in failure. Having lost track of Ch'rell, Nagi learns that he is aiding New York in the reconstruction of the city following the Triceraton invasion. Nagi heads to New York to at last have his revenge... only to arrive late once more, finding that Ch'rell has been destroyed (well, as far as the general public knows, thanks to Karai in Season 4). Perhaps, in some twisted sense of justice, Nagi decides as Ch'rell took and destroyed his brother's name, he will take the name and the image of the Shredder and do with it as he pleases, trying to systematically take down what remains of the Foot Clan... or perhaps, take it over for himself. Between the conflict that would lead him into with Karai... and considering his past relationship with Hamato Yoshi leading him into having no lost love for Splinter and the Turtles, Nagi could end up a decent wildcard factor.

Perhaps I should turn that all into a fanfic...

[Spitfire]

I was more then happy to see the Shredder tossed out into space. I was just plain sick of him after all that. I knew once he was gone we would get more comic based episodes and we have. Which I like alot better since Shredder isn't in the comics for very long at all. Karai isn't much of a Shredder and I'm sure if Leo and kick her butt without even trying that if Saki ever came back he wouldn't be much of a challange either.

I guess maybe my dislike of Shredder as the main villian goes back to the old seires where he was the villian in pratcially every episode. I didn't want that to happen here. I don't mind the weird sci-fi episodes and I find Bishop to be an intresting new character. I would like to see more of him. He does have TMNT DNA and Splinters. I want to know what he can do with it. Also, though I don't like his character very much, I'd like to see how Hun is going to react to Karai taking over Shredder's empire the way she did.

[IceFlash78]

I think they shouldn't bring back the Shredder. We've had two Shredders so far, and I think that's enough.

I'm fine with Karai as the Shredder because it fits the storyline, but they shouldn't just bring in random villians or allies as the shredder, or else it would become redundant.

Imagine it... TMNT vs. The Shredder IV

Wee!....no.

They have a perfectly good villian in Bishop/Stockman. These two have already been introduced and given the proper set up. Let them take over.

Besides I watch the TMNT because of the TMNT, not because of the TMNT vs. Shredder.

[creativerealms82]

I would for Shredder to be gone for good (any form) and for Stockman to fail for the last time and finally be killed. Bishop does not seem like the type of person who will allow Stockman to ask like Shredder did. I hope Bishop kills Stockman the moment that brain in a jar tried to betray him. We all know Stockman is going to he betrays everyone.

[Spitfire]

He betrays people who mess with him and piss him off. He didn't really betray the Mob Boss he worked with. He just betrayed Shredder because face it guys Shredder is a jerk and he betrayed Leatherhead in order to get revenge on the TMNT. He could stay loyal to Bishop, they already have a better relationship then Shedder and Baxter.

[onyx]

Bishop seems to threat Baxter better than the Shredder did, more like an equal teammate than like a slave. That's why I think their team might last longer and be stronger against the Turtles.