my thought on vol3/vol4 and archie/cartoon

pudu2 · 02-19-2006, 01:59 PM

Hello fellow turtle fans…I’ve been lurking in this forum for a while and I thought it was time to introduce myself.

First of all I want to address some of the more popular topics here. And try to deliver a straight forward practical point of view.

TMNT Vol 3 (Image)

A lot of people don’t like it because of its extreme/over the top storylines. I enjoyed it for those reasons. You have to consider the fact that Eastman/Laird handed the turtles over to Erik Larsen to coexist in his establish universe. So the attitude of the series was more similar to that of Savage Dragon or Superpatriot. So it was violent and dark and the turtles were disfigured but the storyline had a focused direction and was well paced. In my opinion a series that repeatedly returns to the status quo has no direction or sense of drama. Savage Dragon received most of its popularity for these reasons and Larsen was applying his formula to the turtles. Larsen didn’t do this for egotistical reasons; he just wanted to make a successful series the only way he knew how. And I agree with his methods. A good dramatic story (no matter whether it has a happy ending) will see its characters hit rock bottom or suffer hardships through the course of the story. There many have been future stories planned to “heal” the turtles before the series was cancelled.

Vol3 vs Vol4 continuity

Is vol3 part of the continuing mirage continuity? No, but possibly it will be integrated in the future. The events of image vol3 cannot be referenced in the mirage vol4 because they contained characters from Larsen’s universe. Laird does not have permission to use savage dragon, vanguard, freakforce, and the vicious circle and therefore can’t reference these stories. This maybe one factor in Laird’s decision to set vol4 so many years after vol2 to have no immediate conflicts in continuity. Sure anything could have happened in those missing years maybe even all the events of vol3. But as of now that is not the case. In the future Laird might collaborate with Larsen to make a miniseries that explains the gap between vol3 and vol4 and why the turtles do not remember meeting any of Larsen’s characters. Perhaps some sort of time travel/other dimensional situation. But does that really matter? Enjoy vol3 for what it was. I personally would love for vol3 to continue separate from the mirage series. Most people accepted when the turtles had separate mirage/archie continuities.

Is the direction/style of Vol4 poor?

I like vol4. Sure the pacing is a tad slow but it reflects the new turtles age and maturity. Jim Lawson’s art could be better (my fav is his issue of tales vol1 staring Rat King) but his current style is by choice and is endorsed by Laird.
Laird is making the new series his way. He already has had mega success with the tmnt. The turtles have existed in many forms (cartoons, movies) which were successful but were heavily changed from his personal vision by outside influence. He agreed to these terms to generate more popularity/money/success and a turtle cross media empire. So he knows how to tailor his creation to reach target audiences (some might say sellout) and that’s just smart business. But now he has made his money and is doing what he wants to do. Be glad there even is a new series. Consider this: if Laird could not have the opportunity to experiment with the turtles in this fashion, he might not have been interested in doing the new series. Its his own personal indulgence and we are along for the ride.
If some of the new revelations in vol4 upset you (April’s origin) that’s good. Its drama some characters will have hardships. If you are upset Lairds has gotten an emotional response from you and that comes from good writing. I hope even more hardships befall the turtles to keep me guessing as to what happens next and how they could possible resolve their problems.

Why wasn’t the original cartoon a good as the archie comic?

First of all both existed (originally) to advertise the playmates toyline. The cartoon did not show many the action figure characters because many of the seasons were in the process of being animated before the toys were finalized. The timeframe of the cartoons developmental stage did not coincide with the development of the toyline.

For example Transformers the movie was made between transformers season 2 and 3 but the only pre-existing characters in it were from season 1 because the development of the movie started before season 2 and before many of the later series of toys were made.

The archie comic had a much quicker rate of development and could incorporate much of the toy line as needed.

For example the g.i. joe marvel comic feature nearly all of the toyline while the sunbow/Dic cartoon series featured far less.

That said, I love the archie series very much and it remains my favorite tmnt series. I only wish I could track down the issues I’m missing…

Does this forum allow sharing of TMNT comic scans? I am currently working of scanning a nearly complete collection of turtle comics in chronological order. Any help would be appreciated and of course shared with all in this forum. If not I’ll never mention it again.
So what do you think about that?

*ZariusTwo* · 02-19-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pudu2

Vol3 vs Vol4 continuity

Is vol3 part of the continuing mirage continuity? No, but possibly it will be integrated in the future.

Peter Laird confessed in one of fours' back iussues incorporating Voulume three in continuity even without referencing anything Larsen incorporated in tersm of characters would be "wrong", its' fine to pay homage to it the way he did in Raphs' nightmare vision of becoming Shredder, but that story was a flower-in-a-dustbin. The only "true" TMNT arc of the whole rotting cabbage heap. Laird, even if could, will never do it. He has a differing perspective on what TMNT is, and Larsen for the most part screwed it up.

Quote:

In the future Laird might collaborate with Larsen to make a miniseries that explains the gap between vol3 and vol4 and why the turtles do not remember meeting any of Larsen’s characters. Perhaps some sort of time travel/other dimensional situation. But does that really matter? Enjoy vol3 for what it was.

Badly written fanfiction?

Aside from Raph As Shredder, Larsen did'nt have a clue, and the comic folded when he actually got one

Quote:

If some of the new revelations in vol4 upset you (April’s origin) that’s good. Its drama some characters will have hardships. If you are upset Lairds has gotten an emotional response from you and that comes from good writing. I hope even more hardships befall the turtles to keep me guessing as to what happens next and how they could possible resolve their problems.

Some of them are more upset that Pete responds to their criticisms with a well roudned "go f*ck yourselves" other than the shocking changes hes' put the TMNT through, but like I keep saying, thats' life TMNT style, and I love pacing like that. Ultimate Spider-Man does the same thing.

Quote:

Why wasn’t the original cartoon a good as the archie comic?

It was for one thing, just as good.

*R-iZZy* · 02-20-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Some of them are more upset that Pete responds to their criticisms with a well roudned "go f*ck yourselves" other than the shocking changes hes' put the TMNT through

Nah, I'm pretty sure people hate the idea of April being a dumb drawing more than Laird's rash responses to criticism.

*Coola Yagami* · 02-20-2006, 01:39 AM

Actually the TMNT show was very action-figure heavy especially the CBS episodes, and the earlier seasons tried to fit in every vehicle the toyline had in tow.

The Archie comics only picked the characters they liked/needed and mostly made up their own characters. Hell, the original characters like Dreadmon, Jagwar, Null, Maligna, Bellybomb, Oyuki Mamishi, etc etc etc far outnumbered the toyline-related characters. And as far as I know, the only vehicles they ever used were the Turtle Van, Turtle Blimp, Cheapskates and flying versions of the Footskis, which were all removed from the series later on anyways.

*Sewer Bull* · 02-20-2006, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pudu2

Does this forum allow sharing of TMNT comic scans? I am currently working of scanning a nearly complete collection of turtle comics in chronological order. Any help would be appreciated and of course shared with all in this forum. If not I’ll never mention it again.

Alas, I'm afraid Forum Rules don't allow sharing comic scans, so you can't just paste the direct link here... It would be deleted in no time.

But I reckon you can share your scans on our #thetechnodrome channel, as it is beyond the Technodrome Forums. Here's the manual how to log in. How to share - you are going to acknowledge there.

It would be even easier and more convenient for you to do it on IRC, methinks.

*VaughnMichael* · 02-20-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Actually the TMNT show was very action-figure heavy especially the CBS episodes, and the earlier seasons tried to fit in every vehicle the toyline had in tow.

The Archie comics only picked the characters they liked/needed and mostly made up their own characters. Hell, the original characters like Dreadmon, Jagwar, Null, Maligna, Bellybomb, Oyuki Mamishi, etc etc etc far outnumbered the toyline-related characters. And as far as I know, the only vehicles they ever used were the Turtle Van, Turtle Blimp, Cheapskates and flying versions of the Footskis, which were all removed from the series later on anyways.

I loved the Archie series I've been rereading everything and oddly enough I've decided it's my favorite out of everything....mirage volume 2 may come close it would have maybe surpassed it if it had lasted longer.
Oh yea and they used the knuckle head in the issue with the chameleon it was of course demolished in the same issue...bebop and rocksteady hid under it when the roof collapsed and the sons of silence took them away.
Man I really wish the toon would have adapted to the Archie comics the writing was so good.
-Putrescent

*ZariusTwo* · 02-20-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-iZZy

Nah, I'm pretty sure people hate the idea of April being a dumb drawing more than Laird's rash responses to criticism.

I'd say they've both been equal, when it was'nt Lawsons' "bad art" or Petes' "slow writing", it was "You raped April", either one, it was one excuse after the other.

*Coola Yagami* · 02-20-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I'd say they've both been equal, when it was'nt Lawsons' "bad art" or Petes' "slow writing", it was "You raped April", either one, it was one excuse after the other.

Hey! I resent that remark. April told me it was completely consensual.

*R-iZZy* · 02-20-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Hey! I resent that remark. April told me it was completely consensual.

What would it matter, anyway? Thanks to Laird, she has no soul............ errrr ability to give birth.

*ZariusTwo* · 02-20-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-iZZy

What would it matter, anyway? Thanks to Laird, she has no soul............ errrr ability to give birth.

Chuck Norris can impregnante the most sterile of feminine species

Read the blast factsheets

*Coola Yagami* · 02-20-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-iZZy

What would it matter, anyway? Thanks to Laird, she has no soul............ errrr ability to give birth.

I guess I won't have to worry about wether or not she's on the pill....

*R-iZZy* · 02-23-2006, 01:03 PM

^ LOL! That's so wrong!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Chuck Norris can impregnante the most sterile of feminine species

Read the blast factsheets

LMFAO!

There's a lot of things about Chuck Norris the public will never know about:

Like how there was Chuck Norris toilet paper, but it was never released because it wouldn't take sh*t from anybody!

*Raven* · 02-25-2006, 06:22 PM

well we allknow Chuck came up with the turtles.

Chuck Norris once swallowed a turtle whole, and when he crapped it out, the turtle was six feet tall and had learned karate.

02-19-2006, 01:59 PM	#1
pudu2 New Recruit Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2	my thought on vol3/vol4 and archie/cartoon Hello fellow turtle fans…I’ve been lurking in this forum for a while and I thought it was time to introduce myself. First of all I want to address some of the more popular topics here. And try to deliver a straight forward practical point of view. TMNT Vol 3 (Image) A lot of people don’t like it because of its extreme/over the top storylines. I enjoyed it for those reasons. You have to consider the fact that Eastman/Laird handed the turtles over to Erik Larsen to coexist in his establish universe. So the attitude of the series was more similar to that of Savage Dragon or Superpatriot. So it was violent and dark and the turtles were disfigured but the storyline had a focused direction and was well paced. In my opinion a series that repeatedly returns to the status quo has no direction or sense of drama. Savage Dragon received most of its popularity for these reasons and Larsen was applying his formula to the turtles. Larsen didn’t do this for egotistical reasons; he just wanted to make a successful series the only way he knew how. And I agree with his methods. A good dramatic story (no matter whether it has a happy ending) will see its characters hit rock bottom or suffer hardships through the course of the story. There many have been future stories planned to “heal” the turtles before the series was cancelled. Vol3 vs Vol4 continuity Is vol3 part of the continuing mirage continuity? No, but possibly it will be integrated in the future. The events of image vol3 cannot be referenced in the mirage vol4 because they contained characters from Larsen’s universe. Laird does not have permission to use savage dragon, vanguard, freakforce, and the vicious circle and therefore can’t reference these stories. This maybe one factor in Laird’s decision to set vol4 so many years after vol2 to have no immediate conflicts in continuity. Sure anything could have happened in those missing years maybe even all the events of vol3. But as of now that is not the case. In the future Laird might collaborate with Larsen to make a miniseries that explains the gap between vol3 and vol4 and why the turtles do not remember meeting any of Larsen’s characters. Perhaps some sort of time travel/other dimensional situation. But does that really matter? Enjoy vol3 for what it was. I personally would love for vol3 to continue separate from the mirage series. Most people accepted when the turtles had separate mirage/archie continuities. Is the direction/style of Vol4 poor? I like vol4. Sure the pacing is a tad slow but it reflects the new turtles age and maturity. Jim Lawson’s art could be better (my fav is his issue of tales vol1 staring Rat King) but his current style is by choice and is endorsed by Laird. Laird is making the new series his way. He already has had mega success with the tmnt. The turtles have existed in many forms (cartoons, movies) which were successful but were heavily changed from his personal vision by outside influence. He agreed to these terms to generate more popularity/money/success and a turtle cross media empire. So he knows how to tailor his creation to reach target audiences (some might say sellout) and that’s just smart business. But now he has made his money and is doing what he wants to do. Be glad there even is a new series. Consider this: if Laird could not have the opportunity to experiment with the turtles in this fashion, he might not have been interested in doing the new series. Its his own personal indulgence and we are along for the ride. If some of the new revelations in vol4 upset you (April’s origin) that’s good. Its drama some characters will have hardships. If you are upset Lairds has gotten an emotional response from you and that comes from good writing. I hope even more hardships befall the turtles to keep me guessing as to what happens next and how they could possible resolve their problems. Why wasn’t the original cartoon a good as the archie comic? First of all both existed (originally) to advertise the playmates toyline. The cartoon did not show many the action figure characters because many of the seasons were in the process of being animated before the toys were finalized. The timeframe of the cartoons developmental stage did not coincide with the development of the toyline. For example Transformers the movie was made between transformers season 2 and 3 but the only pre-existing characters in it were from season 1 because the development of the movie started before season 2 and before many of the later series of toys were made. The archie comic had a much quicker rate of development and could incorporate much of the toy line as needed. For example the g.i. joe marvel comic feature nearly all of the toyline while the sunbow/Dic cartoon series featured far less. That said, I love the archie series very much and it remains my favorite tmnt series. I only wish I could track down the issues I’m missing… Does this forum allow sharing of TMNT comic scans? I am currently working of scanning a nearly complete collection of turtle comics in chronological order. Any help would be appreciated and of course shared with all in this forum. If not I’ll never mention it again. So what do you think about that?

02-25-2006, 06:22 PM	#13
Raven follower of Jesus Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,212	well we allknow Chuck came up with the turtles. Chuck Norris once swallowed a turtle whole, and when he crapped it out, the turtle was six feet tall and had learned karate. __________________ TMNT Future Despair Deviant Offical Ultimate Ninja Turtles Site!

02-20-2006, 01:39 AM	#4
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,682	Actually the TMNT show was very action-figure heavy especially the CBS episodes, and the earlier seasons tried to fit in every vehicle the toyline had in tow. The Archie comics only picked the characters they liked/needed and mostly made up their own characters. Hell, the original characters like Dreadmon, Jagwar, Null, Maligna, Bellybomb, Oyuki Mamishi, etc etc etc far outnumbered the toyline-related characters. And as far as I know, the only vehicles they ever used were the Turtle Van, Turtle Blimp, Cheapskates and flying versions of the Footskis, which were all removed from the series later on anyways.