Raph's sais

[Time Mistress]

Unfortunately, the nunchucks are the only Japanese weapon my Chinese kung fu classes use so I've never used the sais. But Raph is master of the "short weapons" that also include the fans and the hook swords which my school uses. Interestingly Splinter's weapon - the short staff, technically falls into Raph's weapon catagory of expertise.

I can understand why the short weapons would appeal to Raph, they allow him to get up close and personal. But what very little I know of the sais suggest they are a more defense/counterattacking weapon which seems an interesting choice for such an agressive person as Raph. Did he choose the sais (or did Splinter choose them for him) as a method to help teach himself control or am I off base in my thinking. I do know that sais aren't really sharp and pointy like the toon sometimes makes them out to be. So anyone who knows, what are the advantages to Raph using the sais as opposed to say the kama?

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by Time Mistress

Unfortunately, the nunchucks are the only Japanese weapon my Chinese kung fu classes use so I've never used the sais. But Raph is master of the "short weapons" that also include the fans and the hook swords which my school uses. Interestingly Splinter's weapon - the short staff, technically falls into Raph's weapon catagory of expertise.

I can understand why the short weapons would appeal to Raph, they allow him to get up close and personal. But what very little I know of the sais suggest they are a more defense/counterattacking weapon which seems an interesting choice for such an agressive person as Raph. Did he choose the sais (or did Splinter choose them for him) as a method to help teach himself control or am I off base in my thinking. I do know that sais aren't really sharp and pointy like the toon sometimes makes them out to be. So anyone who knows, what are the advantages to Raph using the sais as opposed to say the kama?

I doubt he chose them himself, Splinter probably sort of assigned the weapon to him, I could see him saying something along the lines of 'those things suck! they're not even sharp, why does leo get the cool sharp blades and i get junk?'

Sai are a defensive weapon intended to disarm the enemy without killing. But who's to say they can't kill? hehe.. And yes they're blunt, not sharp.

Sai is one, Zai is two. Silly sounding but that's what I've been told.
I refer to them, as a pair as just sai.

[esco]

I can't contribute much. But I heard the Sai was originally a garden tool? True?

[bmxbandit]

Originally Posted by esco

I can't contribute much. But I heard the Sai was originally a garden tool? True?

i thought most ninja weapons were originally farm tools or garden tools that were picked up and transformed into weapons but the original intent wasn't for combat.

[Buslady]

Supposedly sai were used for planting rice and the farmers turned their farming tools into weapons when weaponry was banned.

Nunchaku were derived from the noseband of a bridle...wooden noseband...musta hurt the horsie...

sai aren't really 'ninja weapons'

[Masked Ninja]

It'd be pretty Raphlike to modify his sai so they're sharp. That way they're defensive AND offensive, if not traditional.

[Kendamu]

In a real-world sense, the TMNT were originally a parody of what was popular in comics at the time they arrived in stores. I'm guessing that Raph being angry and have a weapon with three points on it was kind of a satire of Wolverine.

[Garou]

The sai is blunt, but heavy. It may be a defencise weapon, but you can surely deliver a lot of damage with them...

On a sidenote, I've read that the users of the sai originally carried three of them, and not two like Raph. The last one was a replacement, in case that one of the others was used as a throwing weapon.

[Aignatius]

In the comics, Raph sharpened his sai, and he turned plenty of the Foot into shishkebab with 'em.
He's apparently very adept with the butterfly swords as well.

[raphaelprime]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

It'd be pretty Raphlike to modify his sai so they're sharp. That way they're defensive AND offensive, if not traditional.

Kinda like Elektra's then huh? I've always thought the same aswell.

I also dont know if this is true, but i would think that when the sai was used as a gardening tool, that was also used for breaking up soil, ala 'The Claw', that tool you use today where it has 4 prongs, shove it in the ground and turn it to shake up the soil.

[Katie]

I used to practise a form of kobudo before I was in that bad car accident at the beginning of last year. The sai was a black belt weapon only and I had been practicing with them for a year or so....almost ready for competition *grumbles* I hate being the meat in an 18 wheeler / concrete guard rail sandwich.


Anywho, my sensei taught us that the sai was a derived from cart wheel pins or planting tools. Most all Okinawan weaponry have beginnings like this because the samurai forbid the farmers there from carrying swords in an attempt to dominate them. This is why kobudo training does not include sword training. Traditionally, three sai were carried. Two in your sleeves and one in your waistband, etc. always concealed.

Nunchucku were derived from the bit part of the bridle and also from grain threshing tools (we used Nunchaku as intermediate weapons) Kamas were, as you would guess from looking at them, sickles used for cutting mature plants. (also a choice at intermediate) The Bo staff and hanbo staff were originally the handle of long tools or used for carrying water buckets. (beginner's weapon) The tonfa was the handle of a grinding tool (avanced or blackbelt weapon)

I miss my kobudo training But now with a bum shoulder and a bum leg, I couldn't keep up.

[Mr. Stay Puft]

Originally Posted by Aignatius

In the comics, Raph sharpened his sai, and he turned plenty of the Foot into shishkebab with 'em.
He's apparently very adept with the butterfly swords as well.

Yup. He is pretty skilled with butterfly swords. He used them to trim the Christmas tree in the Leonardo one-shot.

[johnnyblaze]

I always kind of figured that the turtles knew how to use various weapons efficiently but focused mainly on the weapons that they preferred--Leo and his swords, Raph and his sais etc. I guess it kind of depends on the continuity. Like for example in some stories they say Splinter chose their weapons based on their personalities (Mikey has the nunchucks for his flashy personality, Donatello was long on inspiration or something like that, and was given the bo staff....) while in that Archie comic when the turtles were little they all originally had bo staffs but then were given a chance to pick out weapons after they helped a former friend of Splinter (and they get into a massive fight because they all wanted the swords)

[Anarchistguy]

Originally Posted by Mikeys_in_tha_hizouse

Yup. He is pretty skilled with butterfly swords. He used them to trim the Christmas tree in the Leonardo one-shot.

I'm not sure but I think he did in the 2003 cartoon too.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

In a real-world sense, the TMNT were originally a parody of what was popular in comics at the time they arrived in stores. I'm guessing that Raph being angry and have a weapon with three points on it was kind of a satire of Wolverine.

Not to mention the origin of the TMNT was based on Daredevil's origin, Splinter's name based on Stick's, The Foot clan a parody of the Hand, and since Elektra had Sai, they probably decided to give one of the turtles a pair.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Katie

I used to practise a form of kobudo before I was in that bad car accident at the beginning of last year. The sai was a black belt weapon only and I had been practicing with them for a year or so....almost ready for competition *grumbles* I hate being the meat in an 18 wheeler / concrete guard rail sandwich.


Anywho, my sensei taught us that the sai was a derived from cart wheel pins or planting tools. Most all Okinawan weaponry have beginnings like this because the samurai forbid the farmers there from carrying swords in an attempt to dominate them. This is why kobudo training does not include sword training. Traditionally, three sai were carried. Two in your sleeves and one in your waistband, etc. always concealed.

Nunchucku were derived from the bit part of the bridle and also from grain threshing tools (we used Nunchaku as intermediate weapons) Kamas were, as you would guess from looking at them, sickles used for cutting mature plants. (also a choice at intermediate) The Bo staff and hanbo staff were originally the handle of long tools or used for carrying water buckets. (beginner's weapon) The tonfa was the handle of a grinding tool (avanced or blackbelt weapon)

I miss my kobudo training But now with a bum shoulder and a bum leg, I couldn't keep up.

I kinda figured that kamas would be a little more advanced seeing as how dangerous they are to wield.

[Buslady]

as for raph sharpening a pair of sai, depends on the they're made of. if they from a martial arts store those are usually cheap pot metal and will break...
if they're made froma real maker like shureido who makes real steel sai, not crap metal poured into a mold, but actually made by hand, welded, tempered, balanced...then i could see those sharp...but i dont think he ever really did...
i think splinter would get pissed if he sharpened them to kill with

[Katie]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

I kinda figured that kamas would be a little more advanced seeing as how dangerous they are to wield.

LOL some schools do teach kama form as an advanced weapon....but where I was taught they were just the wooden trainers...and training with tonfa meant being whacked at by the bo students every now and again. You have to know what you're doing to keep from getting a body full of bruises from an armed newbie.

[Rooish]

When I bought my sai, I realised how ridiculous Raph's manner of using them is ... clearly with enough strength you could puncture someone with them, but Raph uses them as slashing weapons! Even if he sharpened the tips, they still don't have an edge ... ah well. They still look cool. They seem a little small for Raph, though; I'd have thought he'd want a big weapon.

[Buslady]

Makers of Sai:
http://www.karatedo.co.jp/shureido/e...do/e_kobu.html

http://www.shureidousa.com/kobudo/sai.html <-us dealer, someday I'm gonna buy a pair of the naturals...Shureido is local to me so all I'd hafta do is drive to Orange..woohoo!

History of Sai:
One thing you might notice here is the history of the sai is only speculation, there really isn't a story that is 100% concerning the evolution of the weapon.
how funny this is on a tae kwon do site when these are japanese weapons:
http://tkdtutor.com/16Weapons/Offensive/Sai.htm

http://www.oshirodojo.com/kobudo_sai.html

http://www.okinawankarateclub.com/weapons/sai.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_(weapon)