Discuss Psychic Powers within TMNT (Splinter and Leo, especially)

[Winnychan]

I was hoping to open a discussion on the psychic abilities we've seen Splinter use (especially on multiple or consistant occasions), or (even better) seen Leo be trained in the use of.

Leo definitely seems to be the most likely to learn ancient arts and whatnot... so has anybody else given this serious thought? What do they seem capable of, and what is not possible for them? We know limited communication is possible... And I remember in the 2003 cartoon when Leo came back from the ancient one in season 4 and thought his family was dead, he was able to sense what had happened to his brothers by picking up clues at the scene of their disappearance and concentrate on them... it was very cool actually, how he got flashes of what happened.

So, are there any other examples out there or comics/episodes I could study? My motive for this is partly because I'm writing a fanfic and I want to beef up my knowledge of these supernatural ninja capabilities before I attempt to employ them for my story's purposes.

But also, I just find it pretty fascinating!

[Scandia]

Before I begin, I will distinguish between receiving a vision and actually having psychic powers. Raphael does get a vision of Splinter in Mirage Volume 4, but this is because Splinter chooses to show up in order to comfort Raphael because he needed Splinter the most due to his being morphed into a giant dinosaur.

Regarding true psychic powers, only Splinter and Leo seem to have them. Donnie could have them in theory- but in practice he is not shown using them. But not only Leo has them inside of him- but also has developed and used them perhaps due to his being so close and possibly even bonded with Splinter due to their being so similar and in sync. Raphael and Michelangelo do not have psychic abilities at all. Splinter definitely has ESP.

Another good example is in the first movie. Splinter communicates telepathically with Leo. Whether this is due to Leo being the only one with the psychic abilities, the eldest, the leader, the closest to Splinter, or random, it is not stated explicitly. But this is one of the things that make Leo my fave Turtle.

[odupianist]

Donnie could have them in theory- but in practice he is not shown using them.

Doesn't he appear to have them in Vol 3?

Another good example is in the first movie. Splinter communicates telepathically with Leo. Whether this is due to Leo being the only one with the psychic abilities, the eldest, the leader, the closest to Splinter, or random, it is not stated explicitly. But this is one of the things that make Leo my fave Turtle.

You could probably classify that as a vision too, seeing as Splinter comes to the four of them in the campfire scene as a vision. Leo had his eyes closed. Splinter could have been a vision or it could have been communicating telepathically, subject to interpretation really. If you chose the latter, it could be because Leo was meditating. Splinter probably had lots of time to meditate as well, so therefore, they probably just happened to be meditating at the same time hence the mental connection.

[Sage Ninja]

Leo definitely seems to be the most likely to learn ancient arts and whatnot... so has anybody else given this serious thought? What do they seem capable of, and what is not possible for them? We know limited communication is possible... And I remember in the 2003 cartoon when Leo came back from the ancient one in season 4 and thought his family was dead, he was able to sense what had happened to his brothers by picking up clues at the scene of their disappearance and concentrate on them... it was very cool actually, how he got flashes of what happened.

ok, about this scene here I don't think Leonardo actually was having a vision of what had happened to his brothers. I think the flashes of scenes that where shown on the screen while Leo was concentrating where just there for the benefit of the adiaunce to show what he was figuring out in his head and piecing together.

It is strange how Splinter seems to have all these mystic jedi type ablities. In the TMNT Tales when the boys and Splinter go to japan abnd they encounter that ghost in Teng Shins (what ever her name is) house, Splinter tries to exorcise it though some type of mediatation technique. And in all versions of him Splinter seems to be able to astral project while meditating and communicate with people that atre eighther dead or alive.

Now whether Splinter is actually genuanly gifted or not or if his mystic ablities are a product of his training as a ninja I don't know. But if its something that can be attained through training then it makes sence that he would eventually train his sons to also use these mystic jedi abilites. Since Leonardo is the one that emulates Splinter the most I think it is possiable that he would be the first to learn these techniques.

In the old toon, it seemed like Splinter had all sorts of psychic powers, from mind control, to hypnotisms, to six sences of apending danger, to promonitons. In the old toon they really played it up as Splinter/Yoshi being this nearly spiritually enlightened person that had many psychic gifts. Heck in one or two episodes it seems that Leonardo also has this intution to sence danger as well. Like in the season two finale where leoanrdo sence there is trouble afoot with the technodrome. So eighther Leonardo attained that on his own or he was taught it by Splinter (although why Splinter showed him and not the others is another question). However in a later episode season Michaelangelo seems able to have a prophtic dream or a psychic link to Mondo Geko that enable him to have a vision about him and have knowledge about his nature. Also in the same episode Michaelangelo seems able to use some hypnotism technique on Mondo Geko to get him to regress and talk about his childhood, in very much the same way Splinter did to him earlier that episode. So did Splinter teach Michaelangelo or did teach himself, or did Michaelangelo just have natural talent to control Mondo Geko?

[odupianist]

I think the OT is probably not our best bet to use for analysis of this subject.

[Sunshine]

Master Splinter does seem to have some psychic abilities in particular in reguards to the turtles. He can sense when they are in danger and things like that. Donnie actually seemed to be the one to contact Splinter with his mind in one episode during the Triceraton invasion so he may have some abilities there as well but maybe he needs to be under stress to actually access them? I could be over analizing it. *shrug*

[Winnychan]

All very interesting!

Yes I agree that Leonardo seems to be the only one to share any of this talent, or perhaps he's the only one advanced enough in his lessons to be receiving training of this sort. God knows what Bad Things Raphael might do if he ever got his hands on any spooky mental/spiritual ninja powers. Surely any rules about privacy or other ethics that would go hand in hand with the practice might fly right out the window the first time he got his temper worked up into one of those famous, blazing-eyed rages of his...

LOL, that could almost be a fanfic in itself! But I digress.

Re: "flashes" while tracking down his lost brothers in 'Prodigal Son' (NT, season 4)... I'll allow that maybe they were just trying an artsy way of showing us Leo's thought processes as he figures out what was going on. Disappointing, but definitely possible.

It's really still easier for me to buy that as being something more, since each time he sort of bowed his head reverently over an item. AND due to his (very) recent training with the Ancient One, a mentor who's forte was not physical training. Spirit and Mind, rather than Body... He was teaching him meditation, conjuring visions for him to fight, etc. Besides... yeesh, did you guys SEE that guy's body? Heehee.

Hey, if anyone else thinks of any other examples of psychic/supernatural ninja abilities that have not been pointed out yet, please do so! I'd especially like to study any references within the context of the Eastman & Laird/Mirage comics, the newer cartoon, and the movies (just because all of those are what I'll be considering directly canon).

Much appreciated, everyone XD

XOXO

[triplexxx]

I think I've seen instances where they all have shown psychic abilities: (* means good example;-> means loose example)
*The best example being the first movie where they all call upon Splinter.
*OT:"Leonardo is Missing"=Raphael, Donatello, and Michaelangelo share a vision with Splinter when trying to contact Leonardo through meditation.
*NT:"Space Invaders 2"=Donatello connects his mind with Splinter's and is able to shatter the brain-warp device.
->NT:"Bad Day"=the turtles and Splinter disintegrate the Mystics on the spiritual plane through meditation, though I think this better qualifies as spiritual enlightenment.
->NT:"Prodigal Son"=Leonardo is able to locate the whereabouts of his brothers, kind of a loose example, I don't see how it qualifies as psychic since he found the evidence, he already knew every exit to the lair, and it was really nothing more than pieceing the puzzle together; I'd say this is better classified as intuition, which they all have; that's what the others used to trick Karai into thinking they were dead.

Spoiler:

->NT:"New World Order 2 & Enter the Dragons 2"=All the turtles called upon the Dragons, though like Bad Day, I think this is more an example of spiritual enlightenment.
->NT:"Fathers and Sons"=The turtles were able to see the invisible bone demon, again more likely spiritual enlightenment.

Overall, in psychic abilities, Splinter and the Ancient One are on a high level, and the turtles are all on a low level.

[Scandia]

Speaking of "Fathers and Sons", which Turtle was which? Which one was the one who was really scaredy and thus his brothers teased him? Which one broke the other one's crayon and made him cry? The only one that remotely looks different from the others is Donatello. And I can assume that Leonardo was the one who actually listened to the Ancient One for a bit before his brothers tagged him.

[Sunshine]

I thought it was pretty easy to tell them apart actually. Mikey was the one who was really scared and who did the narration at the beginning. I've only seen that one once but I'm pretty sure it was Raph that broke Mikey's crayon.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

I thought it was pretty easy to tell them apart actually. Mikey was the one who was really scared and who did the narration at the beginning. I've only seen that one once but I'm pretty sure it was Raph that broke Mikey's crayon.

Yep, that was Raph who broke the crayon.

You all talking about psychic abilities here. What about old fashion intuition? Raph's intuition seems to me to be almost unparalleled. Remember when he was the one Turtle that never trusted Karia for a second.

[Scandia]

I think Raph has a problem trusting people period. So it is likely that he got suspicious before the others.

I did suspect Raph broke the crayon, but was not sure who was coloring.

Color-wise and voice-wise, it is hard to tell them apart. I think this was the first complete episode I saw of the NT. I do not remember which episode I saw part of last May 12 or 13 of 2006.

[triplexxx]

You all talking about psychic abilities here. What about old fashion intuition? Raph's intuition seems to me to be almost unparalleled. Remember when he was the one Turtle that never trusted Karia for a second.

Well, that is very true. Intuiton is very powerful, and can be just about as good as psychic abilities. And that'd a good example of Raphael's intuition, a few other examples I inadvertantly pointed out earlier.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Scandia

I think Raph has a problem trusting people period. So it is likely that he got suspicious before the others.

I dont find this to be true. If this was the case, he never would have become buddies with Casey if he down right distrusted people. I have a good intuition. It's something I cant explain, but there are people you can look at, or situations that are unfolding in front of your eyes, or a certain way the wind is blowing or the air is smelling at the moment, that sets off your internal alarm when something bad is amiss. And I think Raph has this instinct in him, rather strong too I might say. In fact, Raph knew to trust Casey immedietely, but when Casey came into the lair that first time, Splinter jumped all over him. Now that is someone with a trust issue!

But then again, by your reasoning, if Raph is very distrustful to a flaw, then Leo is too trusting to a flaw.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by odupianist

I think the OT is probably not our best bet to use for analysis of this subject.

I don't know why you feel that way since the old toon had Splinter useing all these crazy psychic powers in aboundant in the old toon that helped advance the plot. I think the old toon is a great subject to use of analysis in this subject since in this version Splinter was a human ninja master who actively studied and practiced ninjitsu and was able to do all these jedi techniques.

As for the 2k3 show I think the boys where able to see the bone demon in Fathers and Sons because they where all young and innocent and there for pure of heart and thats why they saw it when Splinter and the Ancient One couldn't; the tribunal pretty much said so in that episode.

And I agree with War Horse about Raphael. I think out of all of them Raphael is the most intuned with his primal instincts and intution for dangerous situations (and persons) than any of the others since his personality is so geared toward survival. I'm glad one of the turtles saw that bitch Karai for what she was. Maybe if Leonardo had taken heed of Raphael's suspision of Karai from the beginning he wouldn't have gone through the crap that he did in the fourth season.

I think that all the turtles have the potenticial to access the same spirtual powers that Splinter does. I mean all four of them have displayed this on umerous occasions. Like the episode where the turtles get stuck in the **** pit of the tricertron spaceship and they have no air, they all survive by doing some sort of mediative "internal breathing" technique that allows them to survive with out physically breathing in an atmospher with no air. That seems pretty advance to me, for them to be able to do.

But I wonder if any of the turtles have any latent psychic abilites that aren't connected to their training as ninjas.

[Scandia]

To me, instincts and intuition are two different things. Instincts are the basic behavior animals have. Intuition would be the sixth sense- probably more related to the psychic powers.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Scandia

To me, instincts and intuition are two different things. Instincts are the basic behavior animals have. Intuition would be the sixth sense- probably more related to the psychic powers.

And Raph has intuition. You dont get those wary feelings for someone like he did for Karai on instinct. He knew she was connected to the Shredder and the Foot, and knew it was best not to get involved with them from the start. And better yet, when he and Leo were arguing over the Karai situation, and he got fed up and left, he eventually got over his anger issue and right to Splinter to let the master know what was up. This was something that all the Turtles should have done from the start, seems that Raph was the little more wiser this time around.

But then you have the time when Leo almost took that sword and was about to become honor bound with the Shredder. It took Raph putting his foot down hard and firm about Leo taking the sword and calling the Shredder master to turn things around. (And Raph had suspicions on the Shredder without even meeting him yet. Or perhaps Raph knows how gullible Leo can be sometimes, and feels the need to watch out for him once in a while!)

[odupianist]

As for the 2k3 show I think the boys where able to see the bone demon in Fathers and Sons because they where all young and innocent and there for pure of heart and thats why they saw it when Splinter and the Ancient One couldn't; the tribunal pretty much said so in that episode.

You beat me to saying it . I think the Ancient One (or was it the heralds) states that the turtles can see the demon because of their innocence and age.

I don't know why you feel that way since the old toon had Splinter useing all these crazy psychic powers in aboundant in the old toon that helped advance the plot.

I guess I say that because the OT used the powers as plot devices. I'm probably partial to the NT because all of the episodes actually tie in, whereas in the OT they didn't. I'm not saying we can't use the OT for analysis, but it's probably not the best example because the powers are used as plot devices. Does that make any sense or am I just babbling? lol

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Scandia

To me, instincts and intuition are two different things. Instincts are the basic behavior animals have. Intuition would be the sixth sense- probably more related to the psychic powers.

Yes but when you are talking about 'psychic' ability the two are very much linked. Whilst not everyone has psychic abilities in the sense of seeing spirits or foreseeing the future, we all have intuition just as much as instinct.

I don't agree either that intuition is what's referred to as the sixth sense. The sixth sense / psychic abilities whilst related to intuition is more extreme, a finer art form - what those who have it call a gift. We all have intuition. We don't all have psychic powers.

I think the turtles and Splinter have intuition - not strictly psychic powers. Splinter has a really extreme level of intuition which is about opening. Splinter and Leo (and the others to a lesser extent) are very close and in tune with each other in a way that goes beyond the physical being.

This happens all the time in our world: knowing who is calling when the phone rings before you answer it; girls who live together having their menstrual cycle at the same time; thinking about the same thing as someone; knowing when a loved one is in pain. These are all very widely recognised and common phenomenons.

I can't speak for the comics, but I don't what the turtles and splinter experience is a heightened sense of awareness, a spiritual awareness, of their own spirit and each others. I wouldn't necessarily say they were psychic.

And I certainly wouldn't say that Instinct doesn't come into it. I think Warhorse is absolutely right about Raphael. He is no less able than Leo - he just operates in a different way. he may be the weak link in the chain when it comes to meditation, but when it comes to intuition he has it in bucketloads.

[odupianist]

I think Mikey would be just as good when it comes to this stuff. He just has a hard time focusing. Don would be the least into of the four I think, because of his scientific background.