Leonardo Life/Death question!

[Spacefille]

Hi guys, I'm here with a question I've already asked people on my lj community but I got a wide range of replies and am curious to know what the rest of the TMNT fan community had to say!

Anyway the question is this... in a hypothetical situation of your making Leonardo is faced with a life and death choice. All three of his brothers are about to die and he can only save ONE of the three in time.

Which brother would Leonardo choose to save?

[Courk]

What a heartbreaking situation! Whatever choice he made, it'd rip him up.

I don't think Raph would let Leo save him. Raph protects his brothers and I think would rather die than get himself rescued at the others' expense.

So between Donnie and Mikey... I'm really not experienced enough with the turtles in general universes to make the soundest of judgments here. If I can assume that Mikey is seen as the innocent one in most incarnations, I'd say Mikey would be saved.

I can picture Donnie saying something like, "No, I'm hurt too badly. The others are more likely to survive, save them" but my interpretation of the question is that they're all equally likely to survive, so Donnie would have no truthful basis to say this. He could lie, though.

[Revan]

Good question. I think Leo feels the deepest affection for Raphael. I think Leo would feel pulled toward saving Raph due to their special bond. If it's purely a decision Leo must make I say he chooses Raph. However, if Raph had anything to say about it, he would make Leo choose again like Courk said.

I think Raph and Don would be the two turtles to give up their lives to save their brothers.

[Courk]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I think Raph and Don would be the two turtles to give up their lives to save their brothers.

I was thinking along those lines, too, but it didn't sit right with me. I think Mikey would do anything to save his brothers, too, I just don't know if he's ever really thought about it. I can imagine the other 3 thinking about it in private and deciding that, yes, they would die for their family. I don't see Mikey having those thoughts. When a situation like this presented itself, he'd have to think about it for even the most fleeting of moments merely because he hadn't thought about it before. In that time, the others would have already given up their lives because they had spent the time thinking about it long beforehand. I think it's fairer to say that Raph and Donnie have probably prepared themselves more to give up their lives for their brothers than Mikey has, but that Mikey would reach the same conclusion if he ever spent the time considering it.

Leo's decision depends a bit on how much time he has to think. Rescuing someone from a burning building leaves less time for thought than planning a rescue from captivity that can only succeed for one. Without being able to communicate with his brothers and having to make a quick decision, I agree that Leo would be more likely to choose Raph. However, if he even had a few minutes to think, I think he'd at least try to consider what all his brothers would wish, and I think he could come to the conclusion that Raph and Donnie are more prepared to die.

I wanted to point out that Leo has another option, too. He could join his brothers in death. However, given that he can save one, I don't think he'd be selfish enough to genuinely consider it. As much as it would hurt him to have to choose like that, I think he'd rather live with that pain knowing he did manage to save one brother than knowing he let them all die because he was afraid to lose some of them.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Courk

I was thinking along those lines, too, but it didn't sit right with me. I think Mikey would do anything to save his brothers, too, I just don't know if he's ever really thought about it. I can imagine the other 3 thinking about it in private and deciding that, yes, they would die for their family. I don't see Mikey having those thoughts. When a situation like this presented itself, he'd have to think about it for even the most fleeting of moments merely because he hadn't thought about it before.

Way to cover yourself I agree, it's hard to imagine any of the turtles not willing to give their life for their family because we have been shown how much they all love each other. aww But yeah.

Originally Posted by Courk

I wanted to point out that Leo has another option, too. He could join his brothers in death. However, given that he can save one, I don't think he'd be selfish enough to genuinely consider it. As much as it would hurt him to have to choose like that, I think he'd rather live with that pain knowing he did manage to save one brother than knowing he let them die because he was afraid to lose them.

I hate to pull from SAINW because it just doesn't seem real to me but in that ep, Leo tells Raph that he had to make a choice... Save splinter, or save his brothers. And Leo doesn't seem to regret his decision. Raph tries to tell Leo that Leo made the wrong choice, but Leo can live with his decision. I think Leo realizes that it's not his fault that $h*t happens. He knows when life messes with you, you have to do the best you can and in SAINW Leo did that. Leo seemed ok with himself, he doesn't yeild to Raph's speculation. He sticks behind his decision. I suppose I'm just trying to say, that Leo can live with the outcome of his decision if he had to choose a brother to save.

[Spacefille]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

I hate to pull from SAINW because it just doesn't seem real to me but in that ep, Leo tells Raph that he had to make a choice... Save splinter, or save his brothers. And Leo doesn't seem to regret his decision. Raph tries to tell Leo that Leo made the wrong choice, but Leo can live with his decision. I think Leo realizes that it's not his fault that $h*t happens. He knows when life messes with you, you have to do the best you can and in SAINW Leo did that. Leo seemed ok with himself, he doesn't yeild to Raph's speculation. He sticks behind his decision. I suppose I'm just trying to say, that Leo can live with the outcome of his decision if he had to choose a brother to save.

Hey there. I haven't really been throwing my two cents into this one because reading people's takes on the question is very interesting, but since we're talking 2k3 toon... they spent 4 episodes on him being upset over the fact that his brothers MIGHT have been killed during the Shredder fight. I think it would take him quite a long time for him to be able to get over the fact that he made a decision to save one brother over another even if he couldn't save them both. My take on it of course... ^^

[Scandia]

Wow, what a hard question.

Personally, I don't think any of his 3 brothers would let him choose him over the other two.

So it may have to boil down to whomever is in better shape of the trio. That way they may even be able to save a third brother.

EDIT- Thinking about it, I have realized that if this situation were to happen, both Donatello AND Raphael would insist that Leonardo saves Michelangelo. While Mikey may ask Leo to save someone else as well, the fact that both Donnie and Raph would agree to save Mikey because he's the youngest would probably lead Leo to save Mikey indeed.

[The Shelf]

I'm gonna have to go with Mike as well simply because Raph would refuse to be saved with such a heated passion that Leo would have to pass him by, and Don would give Leo a perfectly logical reason why Mike or Raph would be the better choice to save. Mike wouldn't really be able to provide a reason why he shouldn't be saved, but I think he'd become astronomically more serious after the fact. He wouldn't be his innocent, happy self for a very long time, and Leo would just go all loner on everyone and meditate off in a jungle somewhere.

I think the real question here is, would any of the dying turtles deliberately kill themselves so that Leo wouldn't have to make a choice? Eh, eh? I think Raph would. Don might, knowing how much Leo would beat himself up over having to choose which brother to save. I just can't see Mike doing something like that, though. Honestly, it's hard to judge what Mike would say or do at all since so many versions of him are the happy, innocent type, and I'm not familiar enough with his Mirage/Image incarnations to determine exactly what he would do.

[Ava Collier]

You...broke my feelings.

[Scandia]

Absolutely NOT. That would only make things worse. That would make Leo feel even guiltier. It's with all 4 Turtles and Splinter surviving and Leo has this shell shock and guilt in the NT- imagine if another Turtle did commit suicide. They do not use the euphemism "doing something irrational" arbitrarily- there is a reason for it.

If another Turtle did risk his life to save that of another, and thus end up losing his life as a result, it is another story.

[Buslady]

I think no matter what the case, Leo would attempt to save them all or die trying. Cos his brothers(&sensei) are the most important people in his life. He would die rescuing them all. Who would he reach for first, that depends on the situation.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Ava Collier

You...broke my feelings.

I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Scandia

Absolutely NOT. That would only make things worse. That would make Leo feel even guiltier.

It would only make him feel guiltier if he knew that they sacrificed themselves to aid his decision. If they made it appear accidental, then it would be no worse than if he simply failed to save them in time. For instance, if they're all hanging from a ledge and too battered to help themselves up, all they'd have to do is let go, but it would appear that they couldn't hold on any longer or slipped.

On the other hand, don't they all follow Bushido, the samurai code, and all that jazz? The OT turtles probably wouldn't commit suicide for Leo's sake, but the Mirage/2k3 turtles wouldn't have the same objections to suicide that our Christian moral system has. They'd see seppuku as honorable, and I think Leo would understand and feel less guilty if they died willingly rather than by his own incompetence.

Originally Posted by Buslady

I think no matter what the case, Leo would attempt to save them all or die trying. Cos his brothers(&sensei) are the most important people in his life. He would die rescuing them all. Who would he reach for first, that depends on the situation.

I think he'd reach for whoever had the best chance to help him save the others. If none of them were in a position to help him save the others, he'd go for the one who might die first. If they'd all die at the same time, then he'd go for whoever was closest and move as quickly as possible while doing so.

[jenna]

This is a really hard question. There's no doubt that all 4 would be willing to give up their lives to save others / each other. We saw their willing in Exodus, and in FF Fly me to the Moon.

I don't think Leo would ever "choose" one of this brothers to die, and I think they would make the decision for him. They would carry the burden and I would imagine that it would result in Raph throwing himself into the line of fire to save Leo having to make the decision - him because he wouldn't think about it - he would just rashly dive in. leo, Don and Mike would give the matter too much thought but Raph wouldn't think. And he wouldn't care about leaving anyone with any guilt. Leo, Don and Mike would all take survivor's guilt into consideration but Raph wouldn't. I think Raph can be quite primitve, emotionally: he probably wouldn't even think about the consequences of such actions, wouldn't consider that the consciousness of others would continue after his was extinguished; only to know that his brothers were spared.

[MoreCowbell5263]

Hmmm, I'm not as much of an expert on the subject as most of you are, but I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Raph would definitely sacrifice himself, I wouldn't doubt that. Don, being a pacifist, would want as little conflict as possible, so if Raph were to take a dive, I'd assume Don would then rather have Mike survive than himself. I can imagine Don sacrificing himself, but I wouldn't doubt that Raph would be the first to do so, and then Don would probably feel bad if he couldn't save his little brother. I think Mike would be left, but not by his own will, only after Raph and Don took a dive.

But of course, I can't imagine Leo making the choice. He'd either attempt at saving all of them, or Raph and Don would take their own lives before Leo made a choice, leaving Mike to live.

[ToTheNines]

As long as he leaves Venus to die, all is well.

[Ava Collier]

*snuzzles The Shelf* I was referring to the originally poster actually. I can't even answer this question. It wounds me.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by Buslady

I think no matter what the case, Leo would attempt to save them all or die trying. Cos his brothers(&sensei) are the most important people in his life. He would die rescuing them all. Who would he reach for first, that depends on the situation.

That's what I was looking to say, but I didn't know how to say it.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

As long as he leaves Venus to die, all is well.

So, so cruel; yet so, so funny.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Originally Posted by Buslady

I think no matter what the case, Leo would attempt to save them all or die trying. Cos his brothers(&sensei) are the most important people in his life. He would die rescuing them all. Who would he reach for first, that depends on the situation.

I second that. Leo is not the type of person to just choose one over the other. It's all or nothing for him.

[Coola Yagami]

True, it's all or nothing for him. Honestly, he loves them all the same so if it had to come down to the choice, he'd most likely go for the turtle that was the closest and easiest to save at that given time, regardless of who it was.