It's a rollercoaster ride

[jenna]

Which, in your opinions, have been the highs and lows of the tmnt life span, given the original Mirage concept?

Allowing for hindsight and mature perspectives is OK here (ie, I loved the OT when I was young, but now can appreciate that perhaps it was not the most loyal tmnt incarnation).

In my opinion, in terms of quality, the high points are (highest to lowest):

1. Film 1
2. 2k7 film
3. 2k3 toon
4. OT - series 1
5. OT - Red Sky

In my opinion, the low points are (highest to lowest):

1. OT - series 2 - 7
2. Film 2
3. Film 3
4=. Fast Forward
4=. The Next Mutation

(I've not seen the Next Mutation, so cannot really judge it, am just assuming I will hate it as much as FF )

Feel free to include the comics, but I don't feel I know them well enough to comment or compare them. Although I can say that Vol 1 is beyond awesome.

[Spawn Guy]

To be fair Next Mutation is a lot closer to the idea than Fast Forward. They live underground (but drive around fully exposed), Raph is angsty about it, Splinter is freinds with a blind man which is kinda cool...

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Spawn Guy

To be fair Next Mutation is a lot closer to the idea than Fast Forward. They live underground (but drive around fully exposed), Raph is angsty about it, Splinter is freinds with a blind man which is kinda cool...

Venus alone negates it and makes it farthest from the concept of TMNT than any of the other incarnations.

Fast Foward was merely the Turtles in the future, time travel is hardly a new concept for the TMNT universe and was used in several other incarnations. The only difference was it was stretched out across 26 episodes instead of being contained in a short story.

[Spitfire]

Yes Fast Forward is horrible, it doesn't take comic book stories censor them, drag them out, and make them hard to watch for people who read the stories.

It's also very far from the concept of the turtles. Their in the future where aliens roam the streets freely so obviously they wouldn't want to take advantage of that and would rather continue to live in the sewers like they have their entire lives.

I also hate how happy they are, I mean they just saved the entire world they have no reason at all to be happy.

[Scandia]

In no particular order:

HIGHS:

1) 2k3 toon
2) The OT for the most part.
3) Mirage Volume 1 canon stories that are coherent
4) Movie 1
5) Tales of the TMNT Volumes 1 and 2
6) Movie 4

LOWS:

1) The Next Mutation. Nuff said. This is THE lowest point of TMNT.
2) Mirage Volume 1 having so many guest stories that it makes no sense
3) Mirage overall having so many plot holes, incoherencies, inconsistencies, contradictions, and continuity errors.
4) Mirage Volume 4 for the most part, except things like the Battle Nexus. Mainly this is because of Splinter passing and Mikey getting framed in the worst way.
5) The third movie, although it is not terrible and at least it has Casey Jones.
6) The second movie- again, not terrible. But did they NEED a Vanilla Ice concert in the middle of it? Back then I thought Ninja Rap was the coolest thing since sliced bread and did not mind Vanilla Ice- but hey, I was 13, what do you want? Now Vanilla Ice seems just plain cheesy. Can't believe some classmates had crushes on him.

Haven't read Mirage Volume 2, Image Volume 3, or Archie. So I cannot comment on them. I have not finished Fast Forward, but from what I have seen of it, it's not a bone I will pick since it could have been MUCH worse.

[jerome]

For me personally:

highs:
>Mirage vol. 1. I like it all. even the guest writers and wacky stories.
>1990 Film. Still the best turtles film to date. If this had come out instead of TMNT today we'd be seeing some Transformers type success.
>2k3 toon. Loved it from day one.
>Tales Vol. 2. More books like issue 36 and this could be my #1 spot.
>OT toon original mini series. It's what started it all for me.
>BodyCount. Kevin took a risk with these books and i loved it.

Lows.
> Taking away Mikie's 'chucks and replacing it with that stupid rope. LAME
>Next Mutation. I Would come home from school everyday in 8th grade and watch this and then ask myself. "why the hell do i watch this crap?!"
>Mirages lack of a "plan" and peter's apparent lack of respect for fans.
>Secret Of The Ooze. Even when this came out and i was young i still knew it was crap being dumbed down to sell toys and trying to be more like the cartoon. Vanilla Ice sucks. Even at age 8 I knew a cheap marketing ploy when i saw one. gross.
> TMNT. Film four. While i did enjoy it greatly and spent my fair share of bank on multiple viewings...I just felt like it was a wasted opportunity to re-introduce the franchise and do it with a bang. A film more like the 1990 film or something aimed at maybe a more teen audience like transformers (yes that movie was not that great. but thats not my point) would have been huge.
>Why does Australia get all the good DVD releases? surely the market for TMNT there isn't bigger than it is here. This just pisses me right off
>Coming out of their shells tour. It was fun but just added to the "for little kids only" stigma...

things that fall inbetween:

>Film 3. Would have been really good if the suits were the same as film one and the script not dumbed down so much. It was a great concept and reminds me of a story we'd see in a Tales issue. Better than Secret of the Ooze.
>Vol. 3. I liked some of it but some of it didn't mesh well with me. I still enjoy it though. Just think of it as really good fan fic.

thats all i can think of for now...

[Time Mistress]

Highs

1. TMNT 1
2. 2k3
3. TMNT 4
4. Mirage Vol. 1 - all in continuity issues (and The River)
5. Current - Tales of TMNT
6. TMNT 2
7. OT seasons 1-3
8. Archie Comics
9. OT Seasons 5-8 (no nunchucks for Mikey)

Middle
1. Vol. 2
2. TMNT 3
3. Vol. 4

Lows
1. FF
2. Red Sky

What were they thinking
1. Image
2. The Next Mutation
3. some of the alternate universe Vol. 1 stuff

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Yes Fast Forward is horrible, it doesn't take comic book stories censor them, drag them out, and make them hard to watch for people who read the stories.

It's also very far from the concept of the turtles. Their in the future where aliens roam the streets freely so obviously they wouldn't want to take advantage of that and would rather continue to live in the sewers like they have their entire lives.

I also hate how happy they are, I mean they just saved the entire world they have no reason at all to be happy.

you know Spit I might be tempted to take your view seriously(sence you are making some good points) but your sarcasm just kills it. I mean come on now.

[Time Mistress]

On second thought, I'm moving FF to my middle section actually. The second half redemmed it that much at least. But it's still not a high point for me.

[Spawn Guy]

But the Red Sky is?

[Drtooth]

For those who don't know already, Red Sky is the fan term name for the Darker storylines near the end of the old toon's run on CBS.

Now, here's what i think the best is

Original comics, the new series, the first and fourth movies, most of the old series and the Archie comics after they realised how stupid just reprinting episodes as comics is.

The WORST would be Next Mutation (the girl ruined it for me. happy?) and the (get ready for this) Rock band and Christmas sing along VHS. I've said it. The suits were terrible, and I mean, the rock band gives them an annoying The Archies style edge that I didn't care for.

As for the movies, I haven't seen 2 for a while, but the only thing I didn't like about 3 was they were too cheap to get Henson on it. but I LOVED how Casey Jones was in it.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Yes Fast Forward is horrible, it doesn't take comic book stories censor them, drag them out, and make them hard to watch for people who read the stories.

It's also very far from the concept of the turtles. Their in the future where aliens roam the streets freely so obviously they wouldn't want to take advantage of that and would rather continue to live in the sewers like they have their entire lives.

I also hate how happy they are, I mean they just saved the entire world they have no reason at all to be happy.

Well, lots of people hate Red Sky but I love it. It doesn't mean it's good - it was just a high point for me.

Just as lots of people may love FF and I hate it. It doesn't mean it's bad - it's just a low point for me personally.

This thread was not intended to be an "I hate Fast Forward" thread, merely to discuss the varying quality of the different versions over the years and for people to discuss what made them good / bad and why etc and maybe what people would have liked to have seen done differently.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

For those who don't know already, Red Sky is the fan term name for the Darker storylines near the end of the old toon's run on CBS.

Now, here's what i think the best is

Original comics, the new series, the first and fourth movies, most of the old series and the Archie comics after they realised how stupid just reprinting episodes as comics is.

The WORST would be Next Mutation (the girl ruined it for me. happy?) and the (get ready for this) Rock band and Christmas sing along VHS. I've said it. The suits were terrible, and I mean, the rock band gives them an annoying The Archies style edge that I didn't care for.

As for the movies, I haven't seen 2 for a while, but the only thing I didn't like about 3 was they were too cheap to get Henson on it. but I LOVED how Casey Jones was in it.

I know i have the rock band in my lower half as well but come on...did you see them live? It was really really fun. At least it was for me (I was only around 6-7). And the music wasn't that bad.

Now when they went on oprah....thats a low buddy.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

you know Spit I might be tempted to take your view seriously(sence you are making some good points) but your sarcasm just kills it. I mean come on now.

I know my sarcasm is pretty bad, but honestly it's the same senseless crying.

You may not have ment to bash FF but calling it a low point and comparing it to next Mutation and the third movie is just insulting.

Yeah the first five episodes aren't that good but if you go beyond that the series really does get better and after seeing the better episodes you start to find stuff you like in those other episodes you didn't notice before.

The number one thing that kills me about all the FF hate is most people don't see to get that
A. FF was going to happen no matter what anyways, the only difference is the style changed*Because they couldn't afford the other style on their budget* and they lightened it up*Cody was going to be there no matter what*
B. People can say Laird hates it all they want he has to approve all the episodes first.

An understanding of that a little looking with more then your eyes will reveal that FF was slated to be just as gritty as season 4 before those changes. Just look at the storylines in some of the episodes, espcially Shakonabo episodes

[jenna]

OK, so apparently I have cause offence. Sorry, Spitfire, none was meant.

I repeat:

This thread was not intended to be an "I hate Fast Forward" thread, merely to discuss the varying quality of the different versions over the years and for people to discuss what made them good / bad and why etc and maybe what people would have liked to have seen done differently.

But OK, I'm dropping it now.

[Spitfire]

Many little things lead up to a big thing. It's more or so that, I'm sick of seeing it all over the boards in any shape or form. It's not you singular as a person.

[Revan]

I'm gonna jump in here and say that there has been very few things I would consider low points in tmnt-land.

I really only have 2 things to say.

The first thing I would consider a low point would be the 14-year movie hiatus. I was sure I was never going to see my fav boys on the big screen ever again. That was a super low for me.

And second, the next mutation. I was super excited to hear the news of a live action television series starring the turtles when I first heard the news. The short clips of the turtles butting heads with baddies brought so much relief. But even as a young turtle loving boy, I quickly came to realize that the series was just plain stupid. Nothing more than a classless ninja turtle tick cheaply sucking the remains of what was left from turtle-mania. I soon lost interest and tried to block it out.

Other than those two things, one which has been rectified with the release of the new movie, I can't say that I was disappointed with anything else tmnt.

[triplexxx]

Now those are low points. Wonder why no one thought of that before.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by jerome

I know i have the rock band in my lower half as well but come on...did you see them live? It was really really fun. At least it was for me (I was only around 6-7). And the music wasn't that bad.

Maybe that's the problem! I never saw it live. I mean, I saw Sesame Street live when I was 8 and Toy Story on Ice once, but never that. it must be better in person. Besides, that Christmas movie where they get them a plastic pizza in a wood frame? Bru Tal!

[Spawn Guy]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

Now those are low points. Wonder why no one thought of that before.

The Next Mutation or the movie gap? Frankly that was an inevitability. Batman Begins took...I don't know how long to actually find someone interested enough to put together a story and the only reason it happened was because it's Batman. The Turtles just have to fight more for that kind of thing.