So is TMNT 2k3 up there with Batman: TAS?

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

It's really sad that 2k3 is pretty much said and done. Throughout my college years, it was a ritual to get up on Saturday mornings to tape a new episode of TMNT. On Fridays, I was so pumped up I sometimes could not contain myself. I would rewatch the tape over and over until sometimes I had no choice but to quit. 2k3 pretty much was the one show that I constantly watched in college. I really miss those days. Of course, when I got a capture card for my computer, I was able to just save the episodes directly to my PC. I did that pretty much with all of Season 4 episodes.

Now I look back on 5 seasons of TMNT 2k3 with both a sadness in my heart and a huge smile. First off, I was a fan of TMNT in the 80s with the original cartoon and the first movie. But it wasn't until TMNT 2k3 that I was reawakened as a TRUE fan. In 2003, I had no idea that the property was first a very serious and dark comic. I was use to the old cartoon's one shot and done storylines of goofiness. I was fond of those cartoons but when I compare it to the glory that is 2k3, they look like utter crap.

2k3 brought the Turtles into a more serious world. Although 2k3 wasn't nearly as dark as the original comics were, it certainly was much more dark than the old toon from the 80s. At the time, there really was no American cartoon that had what TMNT 2k3 had. Engrossing characters, superb animation, lots of multi-parters, great voice acting, and of course story arcs. Lots and lots of story arcs. Not many cartoons these days can say all of that. Especially about the various elements of story arcs that are puzzled together right up to the very end.

The only other cartoon in my eye that TMNT 2k3 can be compared to is the 1990s Batman: The Animated Series. Similarily, BTAS was dark and compelling. Many storylines were stretched over long periods of time. Dynamic characters. And amazing animation. Although many people would refute 2k3's Shredder since he was an Ultrom and not a man, I still think that character is one of the finest cartoon villians to come along. Up there with BTAS's Joker.

As much as I love 2k3, it wasn't perfect. There are some quite forgettable episodes that I pretty much ignore but still can watch because of the zanyness that Mikey brings. Another element of the show that I wish they would of expanded on was the music. Yes, I liked the Foot's theme, Shredder's theme, Karai's theme, and especially the Elite Guard's Theme. But I wish they had more music to go with when the Turtles were fighting. It really isn't that big of a complaint but a deeper musical score would of been nice.

The one thing about 2k3 had above a lot of modern American cartoons was the shock value. Who could forget there reaction when you saw Leonardo slice off Shredder's head in 'Return to New York Part III'? Or the unaired 'Insane in the Membranes' gore? Or especially the episode 'Same As It Never Was', probably one of the darkest Saturday Morning Cartoon episodes ever produced. Even a lot of episodes in the Lost Season were dark and edgy when compared to other American cartoons these days. While 4kids is notorious for screwing up properties, TMNT was one of those that didn't get screwed up. Well, at least not in the first 5 seasons. (I won't even go into Fast Forward.)

While many people will remember 2k3 for the Turtles, you can't forget about the other characters. Splinter, to me, in the 2k3 is like Yoda. A wise old Master that can kick some serious shell. He was beautifully protrayed in this medium. Also, can't forget about Usagi. I think every episode with Usagi was a masterpiece. He deserves his own cartoon. I wish 4kids would do one but I don't see it happening. It's a shame he didn't appear in more episodes. He flowed so well with Leonardo.

The most notable of characters that really come to mind to me will always be Karai, Usagi, and Agent Bishop. To me, those were the top three characters in the show that were not the Turtles. Karai had a arc to her and I was both frustrated and thrilled to watch her character. I have already touched on Usagi. He was great. Agent Bishop was a wonder new villian, even though in FF they made him such a weenie. In 2k3, he was a great foe...yet he was also a good guy really. Kinda an anti-villian, really. So interesting.

Point is, TMNT 2k3 was a milestone in my eyes of American animation. It was a cartoon with characters that are lovable and also relateable. Stories that were both engrossing but easy to watch. It really was a fun cartoon to watch every Saturday. I truly hope and pray that Peter Laird is able to bring something that is truly comparable and exciting to the new direction coming our way in 2008. I would love for 4kids to just return to 2k3 after it's failed experiment with FF but I know it won't happen. So I just want to say think you Peter and thank you TMNT 2k3 staff for providing a fan with a wonder memory of Ninja Turtle awesomeness that I will cherish for years to come.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

So is TMNT 2k3 up there with Batman: TAS?

I think 2K3 was better. Its appeal wasn't as limited. With Batman, you just got drama. 2K3 had that and more. It gave the audience a break every now and then.

[Spitfire]

The Batman TAS is one of the best cartoon series of all time. You want good worthy comic adapts, this show nails it. Dark and gritty, wicked villains, jacked up storylines, tormented characters, deaths. This show had it all. And it was funny here and there as well.

While it didn't have a set long running continuing story arc the series put you in Batman's life with all these villains already around him and you lived life with him day by day for the duration of the series. The longer it went on the more we learned about these villains. It ended with no real ending just another crime he stopped. You enter into his life see his adventures and leave.

The animation was amazing for the time and I still love it today. The score was brilliant*Done by the same person who did the movie* and the voice acting was some of the best I've ever heard in any cartoon.

I love turtles to death but Batman is better no matter how I look at it.

[Unicron the Agitator]

I agree that the 2k3 series ranks as one of the all-time best comic-to-cartoon series (I rank it above both X-Men series and the recent Spider-Man shows), but I don't think it is as good at B:TAS. (To a lesser degree, I personally think Justice League/Unlimited is the standard for comic based cartoons). That being said, I totally agree with all your points. The 2k3 series pretty much saved the Turtles for me as I really don't care for the 80's toon and the third movie was a turd IMO.

I wish that they could return to this series in '08, but I'm sure it will never happen. Here's hoping that the new series at the very least, captures the spirit of the 2k3 show.

[The Terror of Death]

I say tmnt is better. The action/fighting in 2k3 makes the action/fighting in other cartoons look like a joke. And Batman:TAS is no exception.
Not only that but 2k3 is the greatest american cartoon ever.

[ToTheNines]

I say TMNT is better. It just looks better all-around (because it's newer), it has more likeable characters, and stronger continuity. Batman had more interestign villians, and better music. But they both appeal to both kids and adults, which is great. It's close, and probably because I'm biased, but you know my vote.

[Buslady]

I love both B:TAS & 2k3 TMNT...they both appealed to me; both have great voice work...nobody can do a cooler Joker than Mark Hamill...both had great stories, both dipped into the comics style and stories. I was particulary happy we got to see Jason Blood/Etrigan and all the lovelies from The Demon comics. Klarion and his kitty Teekl....loved it. I was a huge fan back in the 90s of The Demon, got all 16 original issues too. All Kirby art. That was my first introduction to Kirby actually.
After Bats deviated and went off to this new direction.......bleah...

I liked alot of the early Superman stuff too, we got LOBO! WOO!

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

It'
Now I look back on 5 seasons of TMNT 2k3 with both a sadness in my heart and a huge smile. First off, I was a fan of TMNT in the 80s with the original cartoon and the first movie. But it wasn't until TMNT 2k3 that I was reawakened as a TRUE fan. In 2003, I had no idea that the property was first a very serious and dark comic. I was use to the old cartoon's one shot and done storylines of goofiness. I was fond of those cartoons but when I compare it to the glory that is 2k3, they look like utter crap.

Which is why there not MEANT to be compared to the new series. By not comparing them, I honestly think the 80s series completly aces the modern series in at least two ways, with the modern series having obviously superior aspects in others. Both are just as good.

As for Batman: TAS. No argument, no bias, it KILLS TMNT. Sodding kills it. Its ridiculous to think TMNT is better. TMNT's humour is rubbish and only a few things from it have become canon in the comics. Batman: TAS redefined much of the Batman's existing comic mythology and introduced staples such as Harley Quinn, Terry Mcguiness, Mr Freeze's origin, as well as telling superior storylines and going darker routes than even the modern series ever touched, even when it finally came into its own in the fourth and fifth seasons.

Thats the key thing here, Batman: TAS had one bad season (and that was after a large amount of episodes in the first two), TMNT cant say that, its had two unbeleivably average seasons (two and FF), two good ones (one and three), and two superb ones

Originally Posted by The Terror of Death

Not only that but 2k3 is the greatest american cartoon ever.

Its not remotley in the top ten

[raphael_is_cool]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

It's really sad that 2k3 is pretty much said and done.

What?!

Did I miss something?

[The Terror of Death]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Its not remotley in the top ten

Please, 2k3 is so deep and intricate you dont even know.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by The Terror of Death

Please, 2k3 is so deep and intricate you dont even know.

On the contrary you adolescent little d*ckwad, in contrast to TMNT, Avatar is MUCH deeper and intricate, as is the entirety of the DCAU. The minute your braincells adapt to something broader than 4Kids, you'll see that. Until then, kindly dont waste my time given I already know from previous posts you idolise 4Kids and generally dont have the capability of remotley posting a constructive sentence explaining HOW your favourate shows are "deep and intricate".

Saying TMNT is the greatest american animated series ever made is boarderline laughable.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

in contrast to TMNT, Avatar is MUCH deeper and intricate, as is the entirety of the DCAU."

Even Static Shock?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Even Static Shock?

Well, it DID win an emmy didnt it?

[The Terror of Death]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

On the contrary you adolescent little d*ckwad, in contrast to TMNT, Avatar is MUCH deeper and intricate, as is the entirety of the DCAU. The minute your braincells adapt to something broader than 4Kids, you'll see that. Until then, kindly dont waste my time given I already know from previous posts you idolise 4Kids and generally dont have the capability of remotley posting a constructive sentence explaining HOW your favourate shows are "deep and intricate".

Saying TMNT is the greatest american animated series ever made is boarderline laughable.

I take it you dont watch G4TV?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Well, it DID win an emmy didnt it?

Hey man, you got me there.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Hey man, you got me there.

No matter what the team behind those shows produce, they hit the jackpot even when there not trying. Krypto, Static, it's odd stuff.

Its hard for me to say Batman: TAS is not my own choice for the best series (bias says Transformers G1, simply because it was the JLU of its day and set the course as an innovator, plus it was just very good), but it certaingly is on every poll ever remotley conducted for shows based on comics, and it often comes pretty close to The Simpsons in matters of worldwide consensus. TMNT isnt just not on my own top ten, its not on the top ten ANYWHERE, for ANY poll on greatest animated series.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Its hard for me to say Batman: TAS is not my own choice for the best series (bias says Transformers G1, simply because it was the JLU of its day and set the course as an innovator, plus it was just very good), but it certaingly is on every poll ever remotley conducted for shows based on comics, and it often comes pretty close to The Simpsons in matters of worldwide consensus. TMNT isnt just not on my own top ten, its not on the top ten ANYWHERE, for ANY poll on greatest animated series.

It's certainly on my top ten and you won't find it on another top 10 because it's underated. It's the only good show on 4kids (no question) which hardly anyone over the age of 9 watches. And turtles will always be remembered by the OT, which also is never on any poll for best cartoon. I know you have different reasons for not having it in your 10, but you do have to admit it's under-rated.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

It's certainly on my top ten and you won't find it on another top 10 because it's underated. It's the only good show on 4kids (no question) which hardly anyone over the age of 9 watches. And turtles will always be remembered by the OT, which also is never on any poll for best cartoon. I know you have different reasons for not having it in your 10, but you do have to admit it's under-rated.

Yep, underrated, but as far as top tens go, it sure as heck isnt "overlooked".

And the original IS on polls, it can largely be found within the top twenty or top 100 ranges, but its there.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by The Terror of Death

Please, 2k3 is so deep and intricate you dont even know.

Is that why Batman won an Emmy and TMNT didn't? Keep in mind it won this award back before award shows were popularity contests.

Let's look at the facts here, DC created the best animated universe. Batman TAS started it and it kept going. Super-man, Justice League, Batman Beyond*I'm not sure if Teen Titians is or not* are all connected and all happen in the same timeline. There's cameos all over Justice League from other episodes of Super-man and Batman they kept all the voice actors to my knowledge.

I like DC comics the least but in the cartoon department they deliver top notch stuff. TMNT is great but there's no way it's better then Batman.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And the original IS on polls, it can largely be found within the top twenty or top 100 ranges, but its there.

The NT is easily one of the 100 best cartoons ever made.

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Let's look at the facts here, DC created the best animated universe. Batman TAS started it and it kept going. Super-man, Justice League, Batman Beyond*I'm not sure if Teen Titians is or not* are all connected and all happen in the same timeline. There's cameos all over Justice League from other episodes of Super-man and Batman they kept all the voice actors to my knowledge.

How does that make the show intricate? The Simpsons and South Park have an immense cast of characters but no one says this about them. I don't praise the NT for being intricate, just wondering what you mean.