TMNT...to wishy washy?

*Sage Ninja* · 09-12-2007, 12:59 PM

I have a guy friend that I have been trying to hooked on TMNTsince he was never really into it growing up. So i've been showing him the Live action movies and the 2k3 series and recently the New Cgi movie. Well in my endever to show how awsome the TMNT are I was purposely exposing him to the more serious and hard core and dramatic epsides of the 2k3 series and that best show case the turtles dynaimics and characters, thinking that he''ll think it was as cool as I do. Well I got quite the oppioste reaction.
He was like "this is an action series!?

He said he felt that the turtles where to wishy washy, and that they are to emotional and dramatic to be taken seriously as a action franchise. He felt that the family dynmaic was to dramatic and that for suppsed hardned warriors that the turtles where rather sencitive and wimpy in there emotions. He said it seemed like the turtles are always breaking down over every little thing that happens to them and that only serves to have overly sickening cuddly "family make-up" moments and that it would be better if it focused more on plot and action rather on "boo hoo, i'm not Splinter;s favorite" moments.(and this is from the serious medims of the franchise). And basicaly said that he felt the TMNT was more of a thinly veiled chick franchise rather than a guys on since it the turtles are so emotional.

Jeez, I was really shocked and tried to explain to him that, yeah the turtles have a deep family dymamic that gets attention, but they are still kick ass and lethal, and that I felt the family thing humanised him. And he said thats because I'm a girl

. He just felt that the turtles would be better if they where portrayed more badass and tough rather than emotinal and wishy-washy. Heck I even tried to change his mind by showing some more epsiode of the 2k3 series that don't have alot of family stuff in it but he wasn't convinced.

So do you all think, do you think the turtles are biit to emotional or wishy-washy? and it focuses more on the family than action? Personaly I like that the turtle show emotions like hurt and frustration and jealously and love for each othetr. I think it make them more realistic. But I got the typical "well your a girl so of course you'll like that" brush off" so I guess being a gilr makes my opinion null and void. But from an out sider point of view (or a guys), do you kinda agree that the turtles can be to emtional sometimes to the point that it takes away their warriorness?

*Drtooth* · 09-12-2007, 01:00 PM

Emotions don't work well in an action series.... just look at Spider-Man, Batman, the X-men....

**GK Punk** · 09-12-2007, 01:04 PM

You can't tell any kind of story with out having emotions. That just doesn't make sense.

*Revan* · 09-12-2007, 01:26 PM

Since when was it unacceptable for a warrior to have emotions?

Not all emotions are the same. The Spartans from 300 showed emotion. It wasn't all geared toward the same thing as the turtles' emotions are but still, everyone has emotion.

To play both sides of the issue though, the current series is a children's program so I can see how your friend might see that aspect of it.

*VaughnMichael* · 09-12-2007, 01:41 PM

It's not ok to have emotions ever since Emo became popular.

*Drtooth* · 09-12-2007, 03:18 PM

No... Emo is pretending to be emotions. Emo is a lazy person's goth. Now I'm no goth fan, but Goth girls are hot. Maybe it's the contrast between the jet black clothing and the pale "I don;t go outside in the sunlight" skin.

But aside from that...

The X-men are more "wishy washy" than the TMNT are. So isn't Spiderman. How those 2 can't make good action shows is beyond me. Mayhaps your friend is confusing action cartoons with action movies. Or wrestling or something.

Or maybe he's better suited for a cartoon show about Data from Star Trek TNG fighting accountants.

Time Mistress · 09-12-2007, 04:06 PM

The family dynamic is one of the best things about TMNT. It's called character development. If I don't care about the characters, I don't become invested in their lives, their stuggles, their story. A cool fight becomes 10 times cooler if you know WHY the characters are fighting because there is an emotional investment for the character and the audience. That is what makes a truly satisfying viewing/reading experience in my opinion, not some surface "pop-corn flick" entertainment. I want my characters to make me "feel" as well as kick butt. Anything less than that, is unsatifying like something is missing, and usually isn't worth repeat viewing.

*BubblyShell22* · 09-12-2007, 04:28 PM

I don't think TMNT is wishy-washy. I love the emotions and character development of this toon. Emotions are a good thing to have because you can relate to the characters more. When Leo was going through his angsty mood in season 4, I could relate because I've felt that way myself. I don't like to fail and feel upset when I do. That's why I really like this series a lot. However, if your friend doesn't want to give it a chance, it's his opinion.

*shuriken* · 09-12-2007, 04:44 PM

Your friend just has no real basis in his point. Sure the Turtles show emotion, without it they'd just be mindless killing machines. Which is probably what he likes I guess?

I don't know..if you think about it every hero shows some sort of emotion/compassion at one point. Hell even Batman one of the coldest hero's ever still has feelings of sadness about his parents and cares about Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, Catwoman, Alfred or whatever.

Matt · 09-12-2007, 04:59 PM

The X-men are more "wishy washy" than the TMNT are. So isn't Spiderman. How those 2 can't make good action shows is beyond me. Mayhaps your friend is confusing action cartoons with action movies. Or wrestling or something.

That's pretty much the main reason why I like the X-men so much. I liked the different personas and how the past and present affects them as people and how being "different" influences them and the choices they make(with the exception being Apocolypse, as he's an alien). This does bare quite a few similarities with TMNT though if you concentrate.

Back to the original point though, if it was just an action series, wouldn't some folk want to know why they fight crime? Why do they have a big rivalry with Shredder? Why would they care about anything? And, what are their personalities if they're not robots? Personally I think the human factor adds dimension to the characters.

turkishproverb · 09-12-2007, 05:38 PM

[QUOTE=Matt;556193] That's pretty much the main reason why I like the X-men so much. I liked the different personas and how the past and present affects them as people and how being "different" influences them and the choices they make(with the exception being Apocolypse, as he's an alien). This does bare quite a few similarities with TMNT though if you concentrate./QUOTE]

Apocolypse is an ancient mutant enhanced with alient technolodgy, actually.

On the movie side, I'm getting the hint this guy doesn't actually like GOOD action movies, well made ones. Just mindless flics with bad scripting and direction.

*Warhorse* · 09-12-2007, 06:34 PM

Personally, I think your bud is trying to get a rise out of you. There really isn't a really good action movie, tv series, cartoon that doesn't have the emotions. Action is emotion, and it's only common sense that the creators play on those emotions to reel in the audience and make them want more.

*KROW* · 09-12-2007, 07:01 PM

I've seen plenty of action movies that simply canNOT be taken seriously. Quite frankly, I think your basic Hollywood action film is more wishy-washy than TMNT.

*VaughnMichael* · 09-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drtooth

No... Emo is pretending to be emotions. Emo is a lazy person's goth. Now I'm no goth fan, but Goth girls are hot. Maybe it's the contrast between the jet black clothing and the pale "I don;t go outside in the sunlight" skin.

But aside from that...

The X-men are more "wishy washy" than the TMNT are. So isn't Spiderman. How those 2 can't make good action shows is beyond me. Mayhaps your friend is confusing action cartoons with action movies. Or wrestling or something.

Or maybe he's better suited for a cartoon show about Data from Star Trek TNG fighting accountants.

Tooth I'm talking about how everyones (mostly redneck jocks) are mocking emotional things now because ooo it's so emo! yeah not emo kids who are lazy goths thats exactly how I see it as well.

*Coola Yagami* · 09-12-2007, 08:40 PM

TMNT was wishy-washy since Leo hugged Raph in the first TMNT movie....

Kidding!!! just kidding! yeah, the family dynamic works for the turtles, as do their struggles. I mean the Leo/Karai fights alone are more intense due to Leo's internal conflict to either kill her or screw her.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 09-12-2007, 09:01 PM

What would be the point in the action without some kind of emotion? Otherwise you have no reason to really care what happens, which is what goes wrong in a lot of action movies.

Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman...all have emotional elements. That's why people care and continue to come back to the series...as opposed to something that is mindless action which may be fun briefly but is forgotten.

*Warhorse* · 09-12-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

TMNT was wishy-washy since Leo hugged Raph in the first TMNT movie....

Kidding!!! just kidding! yeah, the family dynamic works for the turtles, as do their struggles. I mean the Leo/Karai fights alone are more intense due to Leo's internal conflict to either kill her or screw her.

Oooh, I cant believe you went there. But yeah, there is definitely some sort of unseen mental fight going on there with Leo, and it has nothing to do with believing the good in someone. Some will preach there is no proof, well, I see it as some hint writers of the series threw in there and cleverly hid it under all the censorship. But the fire is there if you were to look good enough!

Mr. Stay Puft · 09-12-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

(with the exception being Apocolypse, as he's an alien)

Actually, Apocalypse is an near-immortal mutant who uses alien technology (Celestial, to be exact) to enhance himself.

*triplexxx* · 09-12-2007, 09:54 PM

Screw her? I doubt that. He spares her for the same reason Michaelangleo didn't finish Kluh in Grudge Match: it's the honorable thing to do. I'm honestly not sure he actually thought there was good in her or that she could be trusted any more than his bros did since she never showed to be, but Bushido prevents them from killing unless there's absolutely no other choice. They were never actually "forced" to kill her in order to stay alive.

*Buslady* · 09-12-2007, 10:15 PM

Real men appreciate some good wishy washy stuff.

the turtles are dynamic; in the comics they're like they are in the 2K3 toon/movies. they're being protrayed true to their character as much as they can do on tv-so what he wants is something that the TMNT aren't.

If there are NO emotions there is NO character development, if there's no emotions the characters don't give a rat's rear about saving the day

09-12-2007, 12:59 PM	#1
Sage Ninja Band of the Hawk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 3,926	TMNT...to wishy washy? I have a guy friend that I have been trying to hooked on TMNTsince he was never really into it growing up. So i've been showing him the Live action movies and the 2k3 series and recently the New Cgi movie. Well in my endever to show how awsome the TMNT are I was purposely exposing him to the more serious and hard core and dramatic epsides of the 2k3 series and that best show case the turtles dynaimics and characters, thinking that he''ll think it was as cool as I do. Well I got quite the oppioste reaction. He was like "this is an action series!? He said he felt that the turtles where to wishy washy, and that they are to emotional and dramatic to be taken seriously as a action franchise. He felt that the family dynmaic was to dramatic and that for suppsed hardned warriors that the turtles where rather sencitive and wimpy in there emotions. He said it seemed like the turtles are always breaking down over every little thing that happens to them and that only serves to have overly sickening cuddly "family make-up" moments and that it would be better if it focused more on plot and action rather on "boo hoo, i'm not Splinter;s favorite" moments.(and this is from the serious medims of the franchise). And basicaly said that he felt the TMNT was more of a thinly veiled chick franchise rather than a guys on since it the turtles are so emotional. Jeez, I was really shocked and tried to explain to him that, yeah the turtles have a deep family dymamic that gets attention, but they are still kick ass and lethal, and that I felt the family thing humanised him. And he said thats because I'm a girl . He just felt that the turtles would be better if they where portrayed more badass and tough rather than emotinal and wishy-washy. Heck I even tried to change his mind by showing some more epsiode of the 2k3 series that don't have alot of family stuff in it but he wasn't convinced. So do you all think, do you think the turtles are biit to emotional or wishy-washy? and it focuses more on the family than action? Personaly I like that the turtle show emotions like hurt and frustration and jealously and love for each othetr. I think it make them more realistic. But I got the typical "well your a girl so of course you'll like that" brush off" so I guess being a gilr makes my opinion null and void. But from an out sider point of view (or a guys), do you kinda agree that the turtles can be to emtional sometimes to the point that it takes away their warriorness? __________________ Cassandra: You won't fight me, but will you fight--for him! Cassandra's Revenge ~Tangled the Series ________________________________ http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/ _______________________________ http://nox-artemis.tumblr.com/post/4...k-and-feminism

09-12-2007, 01:00 PM	#2
Drtooth Foot Elite Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,439	Emotions don't work well in an action series.... just look at Spider-Man, Batman, the X-men.... __________________ [Insert mildly amusing banner here]

09-12-2007, 01:26 PM	#4
Revan Han Shot First Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Paper Street Soap Company Posts: 3,687	Since when was it unacceptable for a warrior to have emotions? Not all emotions are the same. The Spartans from 300 showed emotion. It wasn't all geared toward the same thing as the turtles' emotions are but still, everyone has emotion. To play both sides of the issue though, the current series is a children's program so I can see how your friend might see that aspect of it. __________________

09-12-2007, 03:18 PM	#6
Drtooth Foot Elite Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,439	No... Emo is pretending to be emotions. Emo is a lazy person's goth. Now I'm no goth fan, but Goth girls are hot. Maybe it's the contrast between the jet black clothing and the pale "I don;t go outside in the sunlight" skin. But aside from that... The X-men are more "wishy washy" than the TMNT are. So isn't Spiderman. How those 2 can't make good action shows is beyond me. Mayhaps your friend is confusing action cartoons with action movies. Or wrestling or something. Or maybe he's better suited for a cartoon show about Data from Star Trek TNG fighting accountants. __________________ [Insert mildly amusing banner here]

09-12-2007, 04:06 PM	#7
Time Mistress Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennshellvania, or the 79th level of Null-Time Posts: 710	The family dynamic is one of the best things about TMNT. It's called character development. If I don't care about the characters, I don't become invested in their lives, their stuggles, their story. A cool fight becomes 10 times cooler if you know WHY the characters are fighting because there is an emotional investment for the character and the audience. That is what makes a truly satisfying viewing/reading experience in my opinion, not some surface "pop-corn flick" entertainment. I want my characters to make me "feel" as well as kick butt. Anything less than that, is unsatifying like something is missing, and usually isn't worth repeat viewing. __________________ AKA the Edwardian Adventuress and Fairlady_Z "You just made your last mistake, Bugeyes -- 'cuz nobody beats up my best buddy and gets away with it -- Nobody! Got that?!" Raphael about Michaelangelo, TMNT Volume 1

09-12-2007, 01:04 PM	#3
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	You can't tell any kind of story with out having emotions. That just doesn't make sense.

09-12-2007, 01:41 PM	#5
VaughnMichael I'm Baaaaaaccck! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,833	It's not ok to have emotions ever since Emo became popular.

09-12-2007, 04:28 PM	#8
BubblyShell22 Leo-holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,912	I don't think TMNT is wishy-washy. I love the emotions and character development of this toon. Emotions are a good thing to have because you can relate to the characters more. When Leo was going through his angsty mood in season 4, I could relate because I've felt that way myself. I don't like to fail and feel upset when I do. That's why I really like this series a lot. However, if your friend doesn't want to give it a chance, it's his opinion.

09-12-2007, 04:44 PM	#9
shuriken Second City Shinobi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chi-town Posts: 4,182	Your friend just has no real basis in his point. Sure the Turtles show emotion, without it they'd just be mindless killing machines. Which is probably what he likes I guess? I don't know..if you think about it every hero shows some sort of emotion/compassion at one point. Hell even Batman one of the coldest hero's ever still has feelings of sadness about his parents and cares about Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, Catwoman, Alfred or whatever. __________________ Some things are better left unsaid. This isn't one of them

09-12-2007, 04:59 PM	#10
Matt Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wakefield/ Coventry/ Oktoberfest Posts: 16	The X-men are more "wishy washy" than the TMNT are. So isn't Spiderman. How those 2 can't make good action shows is beyond me. Mayhaps your friend is confusing action cartoons with action movies. Or wrestling or something. That's pretty much the main reason why I like the X-men so much. I liked the different personas and how the past and present affects them as people and how being "different" influences them and the choices they make(with the exception being Apocolypse, as he's an alien). This does bare quite a few similarities with TMNT though if you concentrate. Back to the original point though, if it was just an action series, wouldn't some folk want to know why they fight crime? Why do they have a big rivalry with Shredder? Why would they care about anything? And, what are their personalities if they're not robots? Personally I think the human factor adds dimension to the characters. __________________ Oooooh, Mr Chips, what the devil are you doing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izet8zN1vmE

09-12-2007, 06:34 PM	#12
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	Personally, I think your bud is trying to get a rise out of you. There really isn't a really good action movie, tv series, cartoon that doesn't have the emotions. Action is emotion, and it's only common sense that the creators play on those emotions to reel in the audience and make them want more.

09-12-2007, 07:01 PM	#13
KROW Meat-n-Potatoes Man Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: State's Anus, NY Posts: 6,472	I've seen plenty of action movies that simply canNOT be taken seriously. Quite frankly, I think your basic Hollywood action film is more wishy-washy than TMNT. __________________ - Optimus Acid Trip - Cult of a Half-Shell - Raiden's Bitter Tongue - *I don't try to be funny; I fail at it naturally.*

09-12-2007, 08:40 PM	#15
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,705	TMNT was wishy-washy since Leo hugged Raph in the first TMNT movie.... Kidding!!! just kidding! yeah, the family dynamic works for the turtles, as do their struggles. I mean the Leo/Karai fights alone are more intense due to Leo's internal conflict to either kill her or screw her.

09-12-2007, 09:01 PM	#16
Mr._Mutant_Man Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,340	What would be the point in the action without some kind of emotion? Otherwise you have no reason to really care what happens, which is what goes wrong in a lot of action movies. Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman...all have emotional elements. That's why people care and continue to come back to the series...as opposed to something that is mindless action which may be fun briefly but is forgotten.

09-12-2007, 09:54 PM	#19
triplexxx Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,816	Screw her? I doubt that. He spares her for the same reason Michaelangleo didn't finish Kluh in Grudge Match: it's the honorable thing to do. I'm honestly not sure he actually thought there was good in her or that she could be trusted any more than his bros did since she never showed to be, but Bushido prevents them from killing unless there's absolutely no other choice. They were never actually "forced" to kill her in order to stay alive. __________________ Please don't shoot me Mr. Big Mike. I'm too young and good-looking to die, well too young. I got a father, I got a mother, I got a grandmother, I got a little sister...and a little brother this high (raises hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand), and little brother this high (lowers hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand) and then I got a great big brother this high (slaps gun and runs). "Fright Night" - Three Stooges

09-12-2007, 10:15 PM	#20
Buslady WingsOfDarkness! Perkele! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In 7803... Posts: 4,366	Real men appreciate some good wishy washy stuff. the turtles are dynamic; in the comics they're like they are in the 2K3 toon/movies. they're being protrayed true to their character as much as they can do on tv-so what he wants is something that the TMNT aren't. If there are NO emotions there is NO character development, if there's no emotions the characters don't give a rat's rear about saving the day __________________