TMNT politics

[jenna]

Hi guys & gals of the loyal ninja turtle fan variety!

I've been logging on here every so often to keep up to speed on the ninja turtle news and the things I have read have led me to a difficult decision:

For the good of my sanity, I've had to stop caring about future developments about TMNT in all mediums for the pure and simple reasons of politics!

I've read so much about the creative powers behind TMNT being in the hands of:

1. Playmates - whose sole objective is to come up with as many as possible editions of toys to sell

eg. movie edition of Raphael with a machine gun!

2. Peter Laird - who, bless him, has allowed the TMNT to evolve into something which has become rather self-indulgent, and doesn't seem to be able to learn from his mistakes

eg. Fast Forward, comic stories filled with monsters and aliens with poor quality artwork. Tales # 36 was perfect and created interest and sold out, yet as since there has been no sign of Mirage pursuing this route

3. Studio execs. - whose only interest is capitalising on who they see as the most profitable audience - kids, and who aren't open to the idea that most of the loyal TMNT fans are adults

eg - Fast Forward is 2k3 tailored for the kiddie audience and the butchering of the new film by Warner and its kiddie criteria.

In addition, none of the powers that be ever seem to listen to the fans (I'm thinking Lionsgate here and Mirage) and as long as they refuse to acknowledge the market, I can't see the point.

So, whilst I'm really glad that a film sequel is still a prospect, and that there is a new series coming etc, I can't come here any more and read things which end up making me angry - because the phenomenon I fell in love with is a narrative about 4 individuals living in New York City, who have to hide from society and living in isolation because they are different and they are ninjas which makes them cool. These factors made TMNT an original and fascinating story.

What it's become are stories about time travel, monsters, aliens, multiple dimensions, space travel where the turtles in the comics and FF can just walk around freely - it's rare to see a ninja or the city (which I feel in the beginning was a great character in itself). And I've realised, that I just don't like that aspect of it and sadly, that is now all there is.

In fifty years, what will be remembered about TMNT? Vol1, Film 1 and 2k3. The rest will disappear, but what remains will continue to be hailed as classics and quality.

Ninja turtles is a phenomenon that has inspired a huge amount of artistic talent (not least of all a lot of you who are members here) and I really believe that the turtles could be hugely profitable again without selling out, if Mirage would look past the end of their own noses and recruit some new blood, and make the most of the existing fan base. And they need to learn from their mistakes: they are not making a profit releasing a small selection of comics about vampires with badly drawn artwork, yet they continue to do it. They have allowed the TV series to become just another children's programme about a bunch of weird creatures and aliens walking around in a society together. It's not special anymore.

I know some of you agree with me, and I know there are those of you who will roll your eyes and accuse me of whinging and complaining again and that's fine - I AM complaining - because I am gutted and I'm sad to have reached this decision.

I will continue to watch the turtles when the new series / films come out and will continue to support Mirage by buying and reading the comics, but I can't subject myself to the rumours and speculations anymore which appear on here, because I get so angry at Mirage and Playmates. I'd rather live in blissful ignorence and then deal with my disappointment when the events take place, or be pleasantly surprised. But it feels to me like Mirage have a wonderful product and they are throwing it away, which makes me sad.

But I will always love the turtles most as the early Mirage comics - the first film, 2k3 (most of it) and elements from the new film and that is what I'll always hold dear. I'd rather remember the best of it.

So... this is my final post here.

I really respect a lot of you and hope that you don't think too badly of me for bailing like this. Please feel free to email me if you would like. I've really enjoyed being a member here and think that some of the discussions have been truly awesome and a testament to the sould of TMNT. I hope I've contributed well in the 10 months since I joined.

Lots of love,

Jenna

XXXX

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

I really don't know what to say except don't go away just because of this! I know we can't make you stay, but would you please reconsider? Wouldn't it be easier to ignore the speculation? You know, skip those threads completely (I do sometimes). I understand your disappointment, really. I just don't think bailing out will do anyone any good. Oh well, if you're sticking to your decision, know that you'll be missed.

Hugs to You,

'Ruko

[Sewer Bull]

I don't get it... You are leaving this particular board only because you don't agree with Mirage's plans in general? Or because you can't stand people speculating and exchanging opinions in a cultural way?

This is just ridiculous. I lost my interest in Ninja Turtles long time ago but I still attend this board because of the people I met here.

[Jester]

And that's why we l;ove you Robbie boy.

[Raphael_]

Originally Posted by jenna

Hi guys & gals of the loyal ninja turtle fan variety!

I've been logging on here every so often to keep up to speed on the ninja turtle news and the things I have read have led me to a difficult decision:

For the good of my sanity, I've had to stop caring about future developments about TMNT in all mediums for the pure and simple reasons of politics!

I've read so much about the creative powers behind TMNT being in the hands of:

1. Playmates - whose sole objective is to come up with as many as possible editions of toys to sell

eg. movie edition of Raphael with a machine gun!

2. Peter Laird - who, bless him, has allowed the TMNT to evolve into something which has become rather self-indulgent, and doesn't seem to be able to learn from his mistakes

eg. Fast Forward, comic stories filled with monsters and aliens with poor quality artwork. Tales # 36 was perfect and created interest and sold out, yet as since there has been no sign of Mirage pursuing this route

3. Studio execs. - whose only interest is capitalising on who they see as the most profitable audience - kids, and who aren't open to the idea that most of the loyal TMNT fans are adults

eg - Fast Forward is 2k3 tailored for the kiddie audience and the butchering of the new film by Warner and its kiddie criteria.

In addition, none of the powers that be ever seem to listen to the fans (I'm thinking Lionsgate here and Mirage) and as long as they refuse to acknowledge the market, I can't see the point.

So, whilst I'm really glad that a film sequel is still a prospect, and that there is a new series coming etc, I can't come here any more and read things which end up making me angry - because the phenomenon I fell in love with is a narrative about 4 individuals living in New York City, who have to hide from society and living in isolation because they are different and they are ninjas which makes them cool. These factors made TMNT an original and fascinating story.

What it's become are stories about time travel, monsters, aliens, multiple dimensions, space travel where the turtles in the comics and FF can just walk around freely - it's rare to see a ninja or the city (which I feel in the beginning was a great character in itself). And I've realised, that I just don't like that aspect of it and sadly, that is now all there is.

In fifty years, what will be remembered about TMNT? Vol1, Film 1 and 2k3. The rest will disappear, but what remains will continue to be hailed as classics and quality.

Ninja turtles is a phenomenon that has inspired a huge amount of artistic talent (not least of all a lot of you who are members here) and I really believe that the turtles could be hugely profitable again without selling out, if Mirage would look past the end of their own noses and recruit some new blood, and make the most of the existing fan base. And they need to learn from their mistakes: they are not making a profit releasing a small selection of comics about vampires with badly drawn artwork, yet they continue to do it. They have allowed the TV series to become just another children's programme about a bunch of weird creatures and aliens walking around in a society together. It's not special anymore.

I know some of you agree with me, and I know there are those of you who will roll your eyes and accuse me of whinging and complaining again and that's fine - I AM complaining - because I am gutted and I'm sad to have reached this decision.

I will continue to watch the turtles when the new series / films come out and will continue to support Mirage by buying and reading the comics, but I can't subject myself to the rumours and speculations anymore which appear on here, because I get so angry at Mirage and Playmates. I'd rather live in blissful ignorence and then deal with my disappointment when the events take place, or be pleasantly surprised. But it feels to me like Mirage have a wonderful product and they are throwing it away, which makes me sad.

But I will always love the turtles most as the early Mirage comics - the first film, 2k3 (most of it) and elements from the new film and that is what I'll always hold dear. I'd rather remember the best of it.

So... this is my final post here.

I really respect a lot of you and hope that you don't think too badly of me for bailing like this. Please feel free to email me if you would like. I've really enjoyed being a member here and think that some of the discussions have been truly awesome and a testament to the sould of TMNT. I hope I've contributed well in the 10 months since I joined.

Lots of love,

Jenna

XXXX

Go out, have a walk, come back when you're not so high strung.

It's just Ninja Turtles. Not worth getting emotional over.

[Ra]

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

I don't get it... You are leaving this particular board only because you don't agree with Mirage's plans in general? Or because you can't stand people speculating and exchanging opinions in a cultural way?

This is just ridiculous. I lost my interest in Ninja Turtles long time ago but I still attend this board because of the people I met here.

Here here. I'm still a fan, but not as much as I when I first signed up here. I hardly never go to the TMNT sections of the forums now, but I still come here to see my friends and fellow members. Just because you no longer love something doesn't mean you have to leave. That's why we have "General Discussion" forums as well, a place where I seem to be dwelling a lot in recent months.

[KROW]

Change is always hard. The franchise is trying to explore new avenues while still holding to the same basis it's had for twenty years. Sadly, though, it seems that it is indeed devolving into a medium that is unsettling.

I consider the comics to be the lifeblood of the franchise, seeing as it was its first incarnation into this world. That said, after Splinter's death, things just haven't been the same. That milestone was a chance for the turtles to really mature and, pardon the pun, come out of their shells. We could have seen them evolve into much different personalities than we have in the past. Instead, we get a Raph dinosaur, a mini-Donatello, Mikey trapped in space, and Leonardo fighting some weirdo with a freaky sword. Not to mention learning that April was a drawing come to life the whole time she existed. Ugh. Fast Forward doesn't seem so bad after that, now does it? But, hopefully, with time, all things will fall into place. Laird has been known to take his time tying up loose ends and concluding his epics. I still think he can pull it off.

Speaking of the cartoon series now, I think it's done a good job getting newer and younger fans into the fold. It started out amazingly with its references to the old Mirage lore and managed to make old fans like new characters (Hun, Bishop, Silver Sentry, Nobody, Quarry and the other mutates, etc.). It now delving into a strange, futuristic world can be perceived as filler for something better; something to hold us over while the good stuff eventually returns.

The movie was a great success as well, despite critics panning it solely as a kids film based on the old cartoon. The fact that a sequel is seriously being considered is a huge hope for fans. What step will it take next? What conflict will need to be resolved that can outshadow the turtles' broken bond from the previous film? These aspects bring interest to a franchise already loved by millions of people and shows potential for more growth.

Toys, games, clothing, and other merchandise should only be seen as a hobbie-filling and money-making agenda. Sure, it may seem like it's ridiculous when you see TMNT-brand floss, but just think of it as another way for Mirage to gain a little more cash for their pet product (if only a little).

With all things, there are ups and downs and the end will never be seen. All we can do, as fans of this great franchise, is just enjoy the next big thing and talk about it, while we wait holding our Raph plushies for the new release of those shell-backed soldiers of the sewers.

Yes, they have strayed from what made them awesome in the first place, but they haven't fallen out of line just yet -- at least, not as I can see.

[Coola Yagami]

hehehe Shell-Backed Sewer Soldiers!!!

[Tinuvielsdreams]

I agree with a lot of Krow's feelings
I really think a lot of it is the fact the franchise is being evolved to fit this generation. It's coming back and sure I get annoyed when I see TMNT take a step in a direction that I think is wrong but at the same time I am always anxious to see where it goes next. I think us as fans should ride with it and the fact is no matter what form they are given it is still the turtles and as long as they are out there they will have opportunites to change. Maybe eventually into something we can all agree on liking
If all else fails we can always keep working ourselves as writers and artists and try to break into the production too.

I hope you don't leave entirely Jenna, take a breather maybe but keep the acct. : )

[Buslady]

I've gone up & down recently but dang it...I'm holding on for more!!!! I want more Raph, I'll get more anyways I can even if I gotta wait and give this new series a chance; there's gonna be tons more goodies to add to my Raph collection, and hopefully if they get their act together, another MOVIE!

It's true they don't take TMNT seriously, we do-with a sense of humor though; I would like to see adult targeted TMNT stuff; not retro stuff, the classic E&L style art on merchandise, maybe even that style with a little refining and animated to our level of entertainment for prime time telly.

Ah well....

come on Jenna, hang in there.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by jenna

What it's become are stories about time travel, monsters, aliens, multiple dimensions, space travel where the turtles in the comics and FF can just walk around freely - it's rare to see a ninja or the city (which I feel in the beginning was a great character in itself). And I've realised, that I just don't like that aspect of it and sadly, that is now all there is.

I can understand your frustration as a fan due to the politics of TMNT and all, but honestly, I can't understand the above statement at all. As I'm certain you already know, the themes of aliens, time travel, magic, and space travel have been integral parts of the TMNT mythos nearly since the beginning. Heck, the TMNT get sent to space as early as issue #4 of Volume 1. So I really can't see how you can say something like this. The only critical change the TMNT stories have gone through is that they can now walk in public in the comics and cartoons (and actually, they walked in public without disguises quite frequently in the 80's cartoon as well).

Originally Posted by jenna

In fifty years, what will be remembered about TMNT? Vol1, Film 1 and 2k3. The rest will disappear, but what remains will continue to be hailed as classics and quality.

I disagree with this as well. Most people I've talked to didn't know TMNT started as a comic until I told them, and the ones who knew about it had only heard of the comic but never seen it. No, what will be remembered fifty years from now is that the TMNT became a national phenomenon in the 80's and 90's due to the cartoon and movies, and a few people will hold the comic in high regard as being the most successful independent comic ever made. But that's it. 2k3, FF, the new movie, even the comics after Vol. 1 will all largely be forgotten because none of them have been as popular as the 80's and early 90's stuff.

In any case, it's just silly to stop visiting a fansite just because you're frustrated with the creators of the series. If you're leaving the entire TMNT mythos, however, then I'm sorry to see you lose heart, but good luck.

[Drtooth]

If I can handle the Muppets being callously owned by Disney, who cares about nothing but making as much crap out of High School Musical, or one of their generic Preschool shows as possible, you can handle this. Trust me.

I mean, TMNT has come a long way since the live action series. That could have very well been the end of it. This whole forum would just be "Hey! Remember the episode where Leonardo thought he was one of the Three Musketeers? That was a fun episode." But we have a new movie, a new series, and new merchandise. I say, this is the best thing to happen to them in quite some time. Their popularity is starting to sag again, but their toys are still pretty good sellers.

I hate to say this, but as much as the recent crop of stupid that Playmates has come up with, TMNT wouldn't be anything but an obscure B&W comic without them. I see people (myself included) whining about how they keep releasing stupid varients. Alien Hunters? Please! It's not the worst things they ever did.

And what if we have stupid TMNT merchandise with 2k3 turtles on them now? How is that different from having Crunchy Pizzabungas or whatever they're called? We've always had weird TMNT merchandise, ever since the 80's series.

The only real thing I would agree with is that Peter has an iron fist in what happens with the turtles. And while it would have been great if Kevin we're still there, he did kinda co-create them. I'm sorry, but I'd rather see one of the creators have absolute power than a cheesy conglomerate. Had Disney bought them out, the Turtles would be teens, alright. But girls. Vain, vapid girls.

Seriously, we're getting DVD's of both series, T-shirts of classic, new, and comic designs of the turtles, an upscale adult collector Comic based line, and all these other goodies. We could just as easily have gotten nothing. Nada. not even retro-stuff.

So remember: Next time you say it's an outrage they skipped over "Planet of the Turtleoids" in a DVD set, think about how we could have not gotten a proper set at all. We almost got cheap 3 episode test run crap, like Sony did with the Real Ghostbusters. Though I will say, they really need to get better source tapes. Way I see it, us TMNT fans are damn lucky.

[ToTheNines]

We really don't have it that bad guys. I mean, most franchises that started 20-some years ago are dead by now, we have atleast 6 different universes and more is on the way.

Think of the Looney Toons fans out there... Loonatics Unleashed? Gimme FF any day over that. And while it holds a special place in my heart... I'm sure they all hate Space Jam. So buck up, and hold on.

[Spitfire]

I love how people still fail to see FF for what it really is. Cracks me up. Know what FF has had over 2K3 for me and always has? Replay value. I seriously start to fall asleep watching the 2K3 episodes again The FF ones I don't.

I also love this "Peter Laird is Mirage" attitude. All he does is approve ideas. He hasn't learned anything. The 4th movie proves he hasn't learned anything.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

they.

I thought the sumo turtles were a pretty good idea. I mean, sumo is Japanese, like ninjas...and it fits into the whole being gluttons for pizza thing...

Anyway, I don't see the need for the drama. The old toon and comics will still be there, even if the turtles are now fighting aliens and so on. Plus from what I've read of the comics, they've been bumping into aliens for a while now. The Ninja Turtles seems to have started out with them having wacky adventures, and really it makes it a nice break from the usual superhero story involving the superhero going after a member of their rogue's gallery every issue.

Plus this board is about a mix of nostalgia and new Turtles material. So if you don't like how the comics are going, you could always participate in discussion about the old toon, or start a discussion about the old cartoon.

If any fans should be feeling like the original poster, it should be fans of Spider-Man after what's happened recently. If people don't like TMNT volume 4 they at least have Tales, but Amazing Spider-Man seems pretty whack right now.

[VaughnMichael]

The Sumo Turtles also go with our old pal Tattoo so they do make sense.

[oldmanwinters]

"The phenomenon I fell in love with is a narrative about 4 individuals living in New York City, who have to hide from society and living in isolation because they are different and they are ninjas which makes them cool. These factors made TMNT an original and fascinating story."

Wow, that pretty much sums it up for me too! Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind a little change of pace every once and a while. But at the end of the day, this should be what defines the Turtles.

Take exhibits A & B...

Batman has been around since the 30s and is more popular and fresh today than ever. Is this because he has "gone in a different direction" than being a morally-driven vigilantee agent of justice in Gotham City? Has he ever felt the need to expose his identity to the world so that he can walk around in the daytime in peace?

Not a chance.

What about Superman, the original comicbook superhero? Does his relevance endure because he decided his classic blue & red color scheme was too passe? Is his boy-scout morality too naive to appeal to new generations?

No, the less Superman changes the better.

As it is with the most enduring superhero types, so should it be with the Turtles.

[ToTheNines]

Nice points and all winters, but TMNT is more of a "gimmicky" property than Batman, and it won't be taken seriously by the general ass hole, ever.

[Raphael_]

What's hilarious is that someone can get that bent out of shape over a kids' product.

[syd]

Oh heck...You know what, I like serious people,and I like people fight for what they believe is right,but I don't like people quit in the halfway for whatever reason before there hasn't been any result yet,they know what,and I hate people say "it's final","it's over" that screw me up,let me tell you son,you know there's NO "final" in the world,it's always a new beginning.

So you won't leave here will you?XD

And...Don't forget it's just a commercial anime,if there's no profit there's no coming out,surely they know what they are doing.Don't push yourself,everything will be OKZ.