How strong is your Passion for the TURTLES?

[steve]

Hey everyone,

My friend Luke and I have been working very hard on the next turtles movie.

www.turtlesthemovie.com

Is the website that we made to generate support.

Our goal is to have our vision be shown at the next TMNT movie.

Here is an article we wrote about ourselves.


WHY US?

We love the Ninja Turtles. Talking about the Turtles and every element of their universe excites us to the core. We enjoy talking to other people about our vision for a Turtles movie and hearing their ideas. Our passion for this film has literally consumed every moment of our thoughts, when we work, when we drive, when we exercise, when we eat, and even when we sleep.

The partnership between Steve and Luke is much like what Laird and Eastman had when creating the original Turtles story. We are just two normal guys. We have created a dynamic system of “checks and balances” where we freely shoot down bad ideas, and expand on the great ideas. We have been passionately working on our vision for 3 years dedicating every spare moment to its perfection.

“We wanted to see our movie so bad, we decided to write it.”

We have spent countless hours developing our ideas. Our ideas include thorough answers to how the action should be portrayed, how the characters should be defined, and why they even have a sense of justice. How much history do we show? How do we answer the questions everyone has always wanted to know about the turtles? All of this has been validated by our research of critic reviews, fan reviews, trends, likes & dislikes, forums, blogs, and many other related resources.

“All of this has been validated by our research of critic reviews, fan reviews, trends, likes & dislikes, forums, blogs, and many other related resources.”

My conversation today with Gary Richardson confirmed exactly what our research had indicated. The general public and Turtle fans were unsatisfied with the direction of TMNT the animated movie. Mirage, Warner Brothers, and many other studios are starting to understand what the audience really wants, thanks to the recent success of “The Dark Knight”, “Iron Man”, and other movies like it. Gary said they are making a turtles “origin story” movie as their next feature length Turtles adaptation. This is right in line with what started us on this journey three years ago.

Everyone knows generally what the next Turtles movie needs, and we have already written it to perfection.

-Steve

[Andrew NDB]

I think "everyone," when talking about TMNT fans, is pretty subjective. And there's not very many sound minds about it.

Some folks think it's time for us to finally get a proper comic book adaption as balls-out as PG-13 can take us being as true to the books as possible... and others think more Bebops and Rocksteadys and cowabungas are the way to go.

[steve]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think "everyone," when talking about TMNT fans, is pretty subjective. And there's not very many sound minds about it.

Some folks think it's time for us to finally get a proper comic book adaption as balls-out as PG-13 can take us being as true to the books as possible... and others think more Bebops and Rocksteadys and cowabungas are the way to go.

I agree that there needs to be a direction. I don't think there is a reason to choose between one or the other. There are Great elements from the Comic book/ Cartoon, movies that can all be combined.

A good reference is when people say the book is better then a movie. Well in a book you have ... 20 hours inside the universe where your imagination goes wild. In a movie you have about 2 hours to condense everything. You just can not convey the same things in the shortened amount of time.

BTW Andrew I am a big fan of your posts.

[Spitfire]

That's an issue with anything. Once you become fan you have more of a reason to complain. People who don't read turtles comics don't have any issue with the movies the way they are. That's the majority, while I'd love a turtles movie that's PG-13 the general public will always view it as a kids property and so if you stray to far away from the old toon or the current toon then you will have fans of it going "It's nothing like the TV show" instead of us fans going "It's nothing like the comics". It's a hard battle to win because we are the minority.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, turtles needs to die out and fade back in as a PG-13 franchise. It worked for Transformers it can work for turtles.

[trustno1]

if it has been written to perfection can you tell us the story? to be completely honest I am more of a film person than a comic book person but i love my turtles and my movies and have never heard of either of you before

[TristanHuwJones]

This certainly came out of the blue. The problem with with bringing TMNT to the movies these days comes down to exactly what Spit and Andrew said. Too many people are expecting Bebop and Rocksteady or Shredder, and just as many people want a bad-arse Dark Knight-ified Turtles movie. The original movie is still probably one of the best comic book adaptations put to film, but what is the point of going back and redoing that.
I think for a film to work, it needs to be live action and CGI, it needs to be PG-13, and it needs to take the core concepts and push them in newer directions that work for film, exactly the way Transformers and The Dark Knight did. Iron Man is another really, really good example. All these movies deviated from the original material significantly, but held on to the core concepts of the stories and characters and really pushed them forward.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, turtles needs to die out and fade back in as a PG-13 franchise. It worked for Transformers it can work for turtles.

Sorry to double post, but this is a good point. Marvel tried reinventing Hulk too quickly and it didn't even do the same numbers the original did. There was confusion as to whether or not it was a sequel or a new start, people complained that there was too much action and not enough brains (the reverse of the original), and it just ended up messy. I think with the last TMNT movie only happening a year ago, and with it being drastically different from everything else, it could adversely affect a movie being shotgunned into production.

[ToTheNines]

I love to original series and all, but we had damn near 200 episodes and most of them are on DVD... people need to let it go and let TMNT take it to the next level.

I'm not the kind of person who only likes serious movies, but Turtles has never got that kind of treatment, and I like to think it's original audience has matured enough to except that kind of direction.

I think the time is coming tho, if you look at the way superhero movies are going now. But even after the first two Batman movies were sucessful with Burton they faded into sillyness until technology allowed good superhero movies to be made.

And speaking of Batman, look how old he is... mabey the Turtles will have to last that long until someone wants to do something good with it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

This certainly came out of the blue. The problem with with bringing TMNT to the movies these days comes down to exactly what Spit and Andrew said. Too many people are expecting Bebop and Rocksteady or Shredder, and just as many people want a bad-arse Dark Knight-ified Turtles movie.

And I suspect the people of the latter gave up on such a thing a long time ago... and you won't find that many voices on the internet. At least, not anymore.

And I don't think it's possible -- or even a good idea -- to try and please both groups. For something new and enduring to come about with TMNT in a larger media way, it needs to be pretty strikingly cut against the mold thus far. Something that adults and teens alike can defend and say, "No, no, this isn't those TMNT, this is something else entirely" and be completely justified in what they're saying. The kiddy/toy-fandangling way has been done, we've seen the franchise rise and dwindle in a self-defeating circular nature over and over again by revolving around toddlers and tweens (by material that ends up aiming younger and younger as fans get older and older before washing their hands of it entirely and never looking back)... it's time to try it a different way.

A relatively faithful comic book adaption is the way to go. They've never tried it before. X-Men opened the door for serious comic book films, now Dark Knight has taken a battering ram to the Great Wall of China for such a thing.

I hope.

[Jester]

I still say that as far as appeasing both the hard core Mirage fans and the kiddie multi-colored bandanna crowd, the live action flick from 1990 did pretty much that. To me, it is still one of the most well done comic book adaptations ever filmed. It takes the Mirage source and uses it to tell a story to the kids who were growing up with the original Fred Wolf toon.

[TristanHuwJones]

I still say that as far as appeasing both the hard core Mirage fans and the kiddie multi-colored bandanna crowd, the live action flick from 1990 did pretty much that. To me, it is still one of the most well done comic book adaptations ever filmed. It takes the Mirage source and uses it to tell a story to the kids who were growing up with the original Fred Wolf toon.

My point exactly.

A relatively faithful comic book adaption is the way to go. They've never tried it before. X-Men opened the door for serious comic book films, now Dark Knight has taken a battering ram to the Great Wall of China for such a thing.

What about the first movie? It's easily one of the most faithful comic book adaptation out of pretty much any comic book movie you're going to find.

I say the movie needs familiar characters, settings and scenarios but done in an Ultimate Spiderman fashion. Very familiar, very faithful, but very new and very logical.

[Jester]

Does this call for a re-boot...or just a movie that does a great job of taking the TMNT characters to a new yet familiar place?

[TristanHuwJones]

But what is familiar to us and familiar to the general public are two different animals. I vote reboot for the films to be honest.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

What about the first movie? It's easily one of the most faithful comic book adaptation out of pretty much any comic book movie you're going to find.

I love the movie dearly but you can't read #1-21 of the comics and tell me it didn't still sell the material a good deal short in frankness, scope, theme, or even the way the TMNT related to each other (and no, trimming a Christmas tree with butterfly swords isn't quite the same thing as "Ninja Pizza"). There's simply no way.

Of course... it just didn't happen to matter a great deal in the case of the first movie as even remaining about 60% to the source material still made for a hell of a film. In any case...

I say it's time to shoot for the other 40%.

Now, I'm not suggesting a Sin City-type affair where it's like a panel-for-panel adaptation of the comics... that wouldn't even work and I'm not even sure I'd want to see that outside of like a grassroots direct-to-DVD feature or such. But like the Ultimate TMNT you suggest, this is kind of what I'd like to see in the same way the Batman Begins/Dark Knight is kind of Nolan's Ultimate Batman (sort of an amalgamation of the aspects that really work in actual Batman comic story arcs -- Miller's Year One, Long Halloween, etc. -- while still working from a unique vision and grounding things in reality as much as possible).

[TristanHuwJones]

True, but look at every other comic book movie that bastardised however many issues to construct a film plot. Turtles, in terms of faithful reproduction of the mined source material, has done the best job if you ask me. And I think the relationships between the Turtles in the films was pretty spot on, especially for the time. Yeah, now that we've got more comics under the collective belts, the relationships are different, but at the time of production, that's the way it was.

But we could go back and forth on this for a while, because ultimately it comes down to how an individual reads the comics and the personalities. The nuances are put on by the readers and influenced by opinion.

However, we are certainly on the same wave length when it comes to the movies, as I suspect most will be. I'm going to put something slightly controversial out there, but if it were up to me (and it's very obviously not), I would start with Baxter Stockman (to introduce April faithfully, and have a quality villain), and set that against the ongoing gang problems in NYC (sets up/introduces Casey, sets up the Foot Clan, retains the status quo of the first issue). It'd all work as a film, it'd set things up for sequels and it's something new for the films. You'd essentially pull the Nolan card by instead of giving them the Joker/Shredder straight away, you give them something they're not entirely prepared for, but one that will set the gears in motion perfectly.
I also wouldn't tell the origin. Hint at it in the first, then reveal more once the Foot Clan gets involved.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

True, but look at every other comic book movie that bastardised however many issues to construct a film plot. Turtles, in terms of faithful reproduction of the mined source material, has done the best job if you ask me.

I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying they could do even better. TMNT 1 was only a scratch off the old iceberg, by no stretch of my imagination insomuch as the source material goes.

The biggest thing for me in TMNT 1 is... at no point was I ever really convinced these were four individuals who were ninja. Never. Four guys, maybe cursorily trained in a bit of karate, a smattering of kung-fu thrown in there without a huge amount of discipline behind it? Sure, but that's it... and that does not only the source material discredit... but the damn title of the base franchise discredit.

Movies two, three, and four only careen over the waterfall even further to varying degrees.

However, we are certainly on the same wave length when it comes to the movies, as I suspect most will be. I'm going to put something slightly controversial out there, but if it were up to me (and it's very obviously not), I would start with Baxter Stockman (to introduce April faithfully, and have a quality villain), and set that against the ongoing gang problems in NYC (sets up/introduces Casey, sets up the Foot Clan, retains the status quo of the first issue). It'd all work as a film, it'd set things up for sequels and it's something new for the films. You'd essentially pull the Nolan card by instead of giving them the Joker/Shredder straight away, you give them something they're not entirely prepared for, but one that will set the gears in motion perfectly.
I also wouldn't tell the origin. Hint at it in the first, then reveal more once the Foot Clan gets involved.

That all sounds fine and sensible to me. I'm down for that.

Sort of hint throughout the movie that there is some purpose or ulterior motive to Splinter's training of the Turtles in ninjitsu without really getting into a lot of details... and then maybe near/at the end do the big reveal that all this time it's been to take out/assassinate Oroku Saki and avenge Hamato Yoshi. Cut to Oroku Saki leaving a business meeting to ominously putting on his Shredder armor... fade to black/credits.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying they could do even better. TMNT 1 was only a scratch off the old iceberg, by no stretch of my imagination insomuch as the source material goes.

The biggest thing for me in TMNT 1 is... at no point was I ever really convinced these were four individuals who were ninja. Never. Four guys, maybe cursorily trained in a bit of karate, a smattering of kung-fu thrown in there without a huge amount of discipline behind it? Sure, but that's it... and that does not only the source material discredit... but the damn title of the base franchise discredit.

Movies two, three, and four only careen over the waterfall even further to varying degrees.

This is true, and I get where you're coming from now. But when you first saw it, did any of that enter your mind? It's very easy to say that in retrospect because we have so much available to us.
Consider the restrictions technologically at the time too. I mean, those puppets really were breakthrough technology for the time, and when you think that it was being financed by Golden Harvest (whose track record at the time wasn't exactly geared towards high budget comic book adaptations), and I shudder to think of how things like the Shredder clones may have ended up at that stage in time too. Also consider the fact that the cartoon was launching, so you that's where the money was coming from (most of the audiences would have been the cartoon fans or people off the street).
You can always say that the film could have been done in a much more faithful way, but ultimately, it would've come down to more men in rubber suits and a need for technology that simply wasn't feasible at the time for that production.
Turtles, outside of the fashion sense of the troubled youths and Shredder's massive inner shoulder pads, stands the test of time significantly well, and I think that, had some of the other things been pushed in there, it would've dated terribly. Look at TMNT 2, that has dated far more in my mind than the first one...

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Sort of hint throughout the movie that there is some purpose or ulterior motive to Splinter's training of the Turtles in ninjitsu without really getting into a lot of details... and then maybe near/at the end do the big reveal that all this time it's been to take out/assassinate Oroku Saki and avenge Hamato Yoshi. Cut to Oroku Saki leaving a business meeting to ominously putting on his Shredder armor... fade to black/credits.

See I don't even think that. I think it would be better to drop the Shredder/Splinter relationship much later, and make it almost a surprise to Splinter, in a similar way to how it was done in the 2k3 series. The way you hint at the Foot Clan in the first movie would be similar to the Mandarin being hinted at in Iron Man, news reports, gang fights, rumours, chance encounters. I always dug the idea that Baxter and Shredder were connected in some way, maybe that could be worked in, but have Baxter as his own boss instead of being on the Shredder's payroll/pounding list.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

This is true, and I get where you're coming from now. But when you first saw it, did any of that enter your mind?

No, Tristan, but I was like 9 years old. A faithful TMNT movie shouldn't be geared towards 9 year olds.

It's very easy to say that in retrospect because we have so much available to us. You can always say that the film could have been done in a much more faithful way,

I wouldn't. It was the best film there could have been at the time it was released.

We're in different times now.

but ultimately, it would've come down to more men in rubber suits and a need for technology that simply wasn't feasible at the time for that production.

Oh, I don't think anywhere on my list of quibbles with TMNT 1 or even on a list of quibbles where TMNT 1 could have or should have stayed a little more faithful to the source material I'd even include anything about SFX limitations.

I mean, what are we talking about here? Showing swords and sai getting buried into Foot Soldiers or Saki blowing up beside the building with the thermite grenade? I've seen Chuck Norris movies in the 80s that accomplished such things with a grassroots budget to grudgingly decent effect.

But I'm really not talking about "Couldn't they have done a better TMNT movie in 1990?" at all. I liked -- nay, loved TMNT 1 at the time, and still can't forgo it. It's a guilty pleasure.

I'm talking about "Shouldn't they do a better TMNT movie now, in 2008?"

Turtles, outside of the fashion sense of the troubled youths and Shredder's massive inner shoulder pads, stands the test of time significantly well,

It's really the only TMNT-related DVD you can honestly put into your player with company over and not completely cringe.

See I don't even think that. I think it would be better to drop the Shredder/Splinter relationship much later, and make it almost a surprise to Splinter, in a similar way to how it was done in the 2k3 series.

Sorry, Tristan, couldn't disagree more on this point.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm talking about "Shouldn't they do a better TMNT movie now, in 2008?"

Yeah I know. And we know they can, and if they really want to Turtles to take off again, they need to. TMNT2k7 was a good, fun movie, but it wasn't what cinema goers wanted. They were pleasantly surprised, but not enough.

The thing is, the Turtles need to be steered away from the kids, but not so much that it makes it inaccessible to them. Parents will and have been taking kids to see Batman and Iron Man, yet there's so much content in these films that is totally unsuitable for them and goes right over their heads, but in the end, all it is to them is a lot of loud noises and some cool looking heroes going up against bad guys. It isn't until much later that they start reading into it all. So long as the kids see what they want to seem, which are the Turtles, they're fine. You need to give the parents taking them to see the movie something to enjoy as well. You want them not rolling their eyes at the prospect of seeing it.

[khelben1979]

I have a big passion for the classic cartoons of the TMNT. I'm used to looking at them through MplayerGUI.