Final Crisis Issue Six: The Final Fate of The Dark Knight

*ZariusTwo* · 01-15-2009, 03:50 AM

Spoiler:

*Ninjinister* · 01-15-2009, 09:02 AM

All right, so, I'm confused... I don't follow mainstream comics all that much anymore, but I recall reading time and time again that

Spoiler:

So um... what's all this then?

Chrissie Terrapin · 01-15-2009, 11:25 AM

isn't it a other-world story?

*Ninjinister* · 01-15-2009, 12:01 PM

No, I think this is all mainstream and canon.

*Anarky* · 01-15-2009, 03:17 PM

Batman's not really dead. He'll be brought back via Superman's Godmachine in the next issue. Joy to the world.

FC just had one editorial rewrite too many.

A detailled summary of what went wrong with this piece of garbage can be found here.

Chrissie Terrapin · 01-15-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarky

A detailled summary of what went wrong with this piece of garbage can be found here.

I laughed so hard reading this I barely could hold my Pepsi from bursting out of my mouth

*ZariusTwo* · 01-16-2009, 01:59 AM

Smooth sailing Anark, great review. I usually forgive anything Morrison does because he's burned me before in a good way (Magneto as a hypocritical Adolf-emulating drug addict>Magneto as a wet blanket pussy under Claremont or Marvel's current ideas), and his R.I.P tie-ins are ten times superior to what happened here. I get what Morrison was trying to accomplish (gun creates Bats, gun destroys him), but it lacked gravitas or build-up. You could have slotted in a need for firearms in the "Last Rites" story when The Lobe was peircing Bruce's mind and unlocking the eras where he did use a gun.

As for ressurecting him via the Miracle Machine, it might happen, it might not. Batman isnt dead, that much is certain, the Omega Sanction simply scatters your soul across mutliple unaccomplished lives and forces you to live through them one after the other...but if Mr Miracle could survive it, so can Bruce. It woudnt surprise me if every Elsewords story features the exact same character living out a full life in each. Morrison just ripped off Simon Furman's "Unicron Singularity", where Unicron is the exact same character in every Transformers reality.

I've collected EVERY non-sensical Crisis, from Paralax to Falcon Retcon Punch to "Lol, I trolled Bats with death on death, but mostly eat death") , and usually it's because there such collosal editorial train-wrecks or fanfiction that never properly understood why the original COIE worked so well (and back when there was no computers or editors in posisitons of power above other editors)

*Ninjinister* · 01-16-2009, 02:09 AM

Okay,

Spoiler:

I don't even know how any of the above is possible.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-16-2009, 06:45 AM

Darksied isnt dead, he's only been weakened for Superman to finish off.

Chrissie Terrapin · 01-16-2009, 07:03 AM

of course batman will return, he can't really die hes immortal!

*ZariusTwo* · 01-16-2009, 09:50 AM

That's the whole point.

When you really consider what Morrison's actually done, made Batman a Jesus figure, reincarnated through thousands of lives, fighting to come back...he IS immortal now

~~Leo656~~ · 01-17-2009, 11:20 AM

Maybe I'm just an apologist, maybe I read way too many comics, but even though it's confusing as hell, I'm enjoying Final Crisis, mostly. Granted, I do read almost 3/4 of the DC line, so most of the more obscure stuff isn't too much for me to digest. But I can see how if someone isn't reading every DC book, OR the tie-ins, minis, one-shots, "Dark Side Club" stuff, this book could be a giant mess. But I think I finally "get" what GM is trying to do with it, even though I think he needs to simplify his storytelling desperately.

I like a lot of Morrison's stuff that I've read, but some of it is just way too abstract for me, and I assume most casual readers. I never read Seven Soldiers, for example, so thanks to the posters who explained the above stuff about the Omega sanction, etc. That makes things a lot easier to understand, for me at least, with regards to Batman.

As a huge Guns N Roses fan, I admire and respect the hell out of people who aren't afraid to just write the way they want to. But in comics, you just shouldn't confuse people the way Morrison, Azzarello, and even (at times) Miller do, IMHO. (Full disclosure: With few exceptions, I don't like Frank Miller. Yeah, yeah, start throwing things...) To me, Geoff Johns, Jeph Loeb and Dan Jurgens are the best at crafting huge stories with a billion characters that casual fans can still read and understand. Say what you want about the Zero Hour story from back when, but when I lend that book to my casual comics friends, they all like it and even more, they understand it. And that's without a billion tie-ins and "Secret Files" that explain why you read the main mini and still can't "get" the story.

I love Morrison's Batman books, but Johns or even Jurgens should have done Final Crisis, I think. Grant just does way too much acid to present a clear view of the DCU.

*Anarky* · 01-17-2009, 07:24 PM

Goddamn, it's you. I thought you were lost for good.

Also, apologist this, hugely immense that... I tried to apologize for Final Crisis. During the first two or three issues I went "You just wait, this is going to be good." And then... it just didn't get any better. I've since celebrated it as a trainwreck of epic proportions, much like MST3k celebrates bad movies. And that does fit quite well.

The main feeling I get is that Morrison wanted to do "Thing A" like ending Batman in his own book or actually incapacitate him for good. And then DC wanted "Thing B" while Morrison probably wanted to stick with his. This led to editorial rewrites galore and thus, FC was had. It's basically "Thing A/B." It's neither fish nor bird, and can't make sense by definition.

I'm a DC fan, mainly. For some reason, the DCU is much closer to my heart than Marvel's universe ever will be. I do read my fair share of Marvel titles, but the DC ones are the ones that have me excited and impatient. But I've given up on Final Crisis. And I do follow about 80% of DC's output.

It's sad.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-29-2009, 03:29 AM

FC Issue 7 concluded with a, refreshingly, good sense of fun and spirit. I've always admired this event, despite it's flaws, as being more fun and "true" to D.C's large appendix and tapestry (not related to the a-list heroes, who failed and had to be bailed out by the cast of Filmation's Shazam)

The highlight has to be where they revealed Bruce Wayne has become Sam Beckett. Oh boy.

*Anarky* · 01-29-2009, 03:55 PM

Riiight. Bestest book ever. Amazingly awesomely fantastic.

~~Leo656~~ · 01-31-2009, 01:49 PM

Read the entire event through in one sitting, and I liked it overall. I thought the ending and how Superman saved everything was a little too "cute", but eh, Morrison's an unabashed Silver Age nut so it's expected.

I think I "get" what GM was trying to illustrate with this story, and why it went over a lotta people's heads. We were promised a straight-up, "Darkseid rules all and the good guys fight back" story, and we didn't get that. Morrison did however say from day one that this story was bigger in scope than anything ever, so I'm not surprised at what it evolved into. Problem is, almost nobody gets what that arc has to do with the "behind-the-scenes" story of Superman Beyond and issue 7. It's like Superman's war with Mandraak was the real story, and all the Darkseid stuff was a warm-up.

People don't like being swerved, and they hate reading things more than once to "get" it. That's why I think a lotta people crap on Final Crisis. I finally figured out what it seems to mean in an allegorical, metaphorical context, but a lot of it still hangs oddly.

Coulda been done simpler, but I liked it.

*Spike Spiegel* · 01-31-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The highlight has to be where they revealed Bruce Wayne has become Sam Beckett. Oh boy.

I wasn't even going to read this series, but after seeing that...I think it's a sure bet that I will.

01-15-2009, 03:50 AM	#1
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,491	Final Crisis Issue Six: The Final Fate of The Dark Knight Spoiler: http://www.wizarduniverse.com/011409batmandead.html Batman goes down killing Darksied. Not a big fan of Supes' "DULL SURPRISE" reaction, but otherwise, if you've been following not just most of Morrison's tight, non-linear storylines, you'll know Bruce's soul is now scattered within a million long-suffering lives in multiple realitys I love that his final words echo that of The Joker. He finally "gets" it on the day he kills the god of all evil, it's also fitting his life ends with a bullet resolving his quest, as a bullet began it a long time ago. __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-15-2009, 09:02 AM	#2
Ninjinister 無問題 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Moesko Island, WA Posts: 14,348	All right, so, I'm confused... I don't follow mainstream comics all that much anymore, but I recall reading time and time again that Spoiler: they weren't actually going to end Bruce Wayne's life. So um... what's all this then? __________________

01-15-2009, 12:01 PM	#4
Ninjinister 無問題 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Moesko Island, WA Posts: 14,348	No, I think this is all mainstream and canon. __________________

01-15-2009, 03:17 PM	#5
Anarky Outlaw Hero Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tannhauser Gate Posts: 4,867	Batman's not really dead. He'll be brought back via Superman's Godmachine in the next issue. Joy to the world. FC just had one editorial rewrite too many. A detailled summary of what went wrong with this piece of garbage can be found here. __________________ Because it's... I dunno... brutal.

01-16-2009, 01:59 AM	#7
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,491	Smooth sailing Anark, great review. I usually forgive anything Morrison does because he's burned me before in a good way (Magneto as a hypocritical Adolf-emulating drug addict>Magneto as a wet blanket pussy under Claremont or Marvel's current ideas), and his R.I.P tie-ins are ten times superior to what happened here. I get what Morrison was trying to accomplish (gun creates Bats, gun destroys him), but it lacked gravitas or build-up. You could have slotted in a need for firearms in the "Last Rites" story when The Lobe was peircing Bruce's mind and unlocking the eras where he did use a gun. As for ressurecting him via the Miracle Machine, it might happen, it might not. Batman isnt dead, that much is certain, the Omega Sanction simply scatters your soul across mutliple unaccomplished lives and forces you to live through them one after the other...but if Mr Miracle could survive it, so can Bruce. It woudnt surprise me if every Elsewords story features the exact same character living out a full life in each. Morrison just ripped off Simon Furman's "Unicron Singularity", where Unicron is the exact same character in every Transformers reality. I've collected EVERY non-sensical Crisis, from Paralax to Falcon Retcon Punch to "Lol, I trolled Bats with death on death, but mostly eat death") , and usually it's because there such collosal editorial train-wrecks or fanfiction that never properly understood why the original COIE worked so well (and back when there was no computers or editors in posisitons of power above other editors) __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-15-2009, 11:25 AM	#3
Chrissie Terrapin Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere Posts: 180	isn't it a other-world story?

01-16-2009, 02:09 AM	#8
Ninjinister 無問題 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Moesko Island, WA Posts: 14,348	Okay, Spoiler: killing Darkseid with a gun? Godmachine? Tawky Tawny is a viable DCU character being used in something? This is why I don't read most comics anymore. I don't even know how any of the above is possible. __________________

01-16-2009, 06:45 AM	#9
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,491	Darksied isnt dead, he's only been weakened for Superman to finish off. __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-16-2009, 07:03 AM	#10
Chrissie Terrapin Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere Posts: 180	of course batman will return, he can't really die hes immortal!

01-16-2009, 09:50 AM	#11
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,491	That's the whole point. When you really consider what Morrison's actually done, made Batman a Jesus figure, reincarnated through thousands of lives, fighting to come back...he IS immortal now __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-17-2009, 11:20 AM	#12
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Maybe I'm just an apologist, maybe I read way too many comics, but even though it's confusing as hell, I'm enjoying Final Crisis, mostly. Granted, I do read almost 3/4 of the DC line, so most of the more obscure stuff isn't too much for me to digest. But I can see how if someone isn't reading every DC book, OR the tie-ins, minis, one-shots, "Dark Side Club" stuff, this book could be a giant mess. But I think I finally "get" what GM is trying to do with it, even though I think he needs to simplify his storytelling desperately. I like a lot of Morrison's stuff that I've read, but some of it is just way too abstract for me, and I assume most casual readers. I never read Seven Soldiers, for example, so thanks to the posters who explained the above stuff about the Omega sanction, etc. That makes things a lot easier to understand, for me at least, with regards to Batman. As a huge Guns N Roses fan, I admire and respect the hell out of people who aren't afraid to just write the way they want to. But in comics, you just shouldn't confuse people the way Morrison, Azzarello, and even (at times) Miller do, IMHO. (Full disclosure: With few exceptions, I don't like Frank Miller. Yeah, yeah, start throwing things...) To me, Geoff Johns, Jeph Loeb and Dan Jurgens are the best at crafting huge stories with a billion characters that casual fans can still read and understand. Say what you want about the Zero Hour story from back when, but when I lend that book to my casual comics friends, they all like it and even more, they understand it. And that's without a billion tie-ins and "Secret Files" that explain why you read the main mini and still can't "get" the story. I love Morrison's Batman books, but Johns or even Jurgens should have done Final Crisis, I think. Grant just does way too much acid to present a clear view of the DCU.

01-17-2009, 07:24 PM	#13
Anarky Outlaw Hero Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tannhauser Gate Posts: 4,867	Goddamn, it's you. I thought you were lost for good. Also, apologist this, hugely immense that... I tried to apologize for Final Crisis. During the first two or three issues I went "You just wait, this is going to be good." And then... it just didn't get any better. I've since celebrated it as a trainwreck of epic proportions, much like MST3k celebrates bad movies. And that does fit quite well. The main feeling I get is that Morrison wanted to do "Thing A" like ending Batman in his own book or actually incapacitate him for good. And then DC wanted "Thing B" while Morrison probably wanted to stick with his. This led to editorial rewrites galore and thus, FC was had. It's basically "Thing A/B." It's neither fish nor bird, and can't make sense by definition. I'm a DC fan, mainly. For some reason, the DCU is much closer to my heart than Marvel's universe ever will be. I do read my fair share of Marvel titles, but the DC ones are the ones that have me excited and impatient. But I've given up on Final Crisis. And I do follow about 80% of DC's output. It's sad. __________________ Because it's... I dunno... brutal.

01-29-2009, 03:29 AM	#14
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,491	FC Issue 7 concluded with a, refreshingly, good sense of fun and spirit. I've always admired this event, despite it's flaws, as being more fun and "true" to D.C's large appendix and tapestry (not related to the a-list heroes, who failed and had to be bailed out by the cast of Filmation's Shazam) The highlight has to be where they revealed Bruce Wayne has become Sam Beckett. Oh boy. __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-29-2009, 03:55 PM	#15
Anarky Outlaw Hero Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tannhauser Gate Posts: 4,867	Riiight. Bestest book ever. Amazingly awesomely fantastic. __________________ Because it's... I dunno... brutal.

01-31-2009, 01:49 PM	#16
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Read the entire event through in one sitting, and I liked it overall. I thought the ending and how Superman saved everything was a little too "cute", but eh, Morrison's an unabashed Silver Age nut so it's expected. I think I "get" what GM was trying to illustrate with this story, and why it went over a lotta people's heads. We were promised a straight-up, "Darkseid rules all and the good guys fight back" story, and we didn't get that. Morrison did however say from day one that this story was bigger in scope than anything ever, so I'm not surprised at what it evolved into. Problem is, almost nobody gets what that arc has to do with the "behind-the-scenes" story of Superman Beyond and issue 7. It's like Superman's war with Mandraak was the real story, and all the Darkseid stuff was a warm-up. People don't like being swerved, and they hate reading things more than once to "get" it. That's why I think a lotta people crap on Final Crisis. I finally figured out what it seems to mean in an allegorical, metaphorical context, but a lot of it still hangs oddly. Coulda been done simpler, but I liked it.