Its for the best that the Mirage Universe sourcebook was never published

[CyberCubed]

I know a lot of people were initially disappointed Viacom canceled that book, but I'm actually quite happy now. From the sounds of it that book would have pissed off a lot of fans with what issues were "canon" or not, and the fact that it would be incomplete as not all the remaining issues of Tales or the end of Vol. 4 would have been out at that time back in November 2009.

I'm glad the book is canceled. Unless a lot of work is put into something like that, its worthless and would cause controversy among fans.

Glad it was axed.

[Archon_Turtle]

As someone who has seen various parts of that book... I need to say something you may not ever see me say again...ready?

*ahem*

I agree with CyberCubed.

[DrSpengler]

Well, I was gonna get a special thanks credit in the thing, so I was kinda disappointed in that regard that it was cancelled.

But vanity aside, yeah, I dunno. I know Tristan put a lot of work into it (work I hope he got paid for, regardless of publication) and it might have been interesting for novelty's sake.

I like sourcebooks, so even if I wouldn't have agreed with the canon designations it might have established, I still would've liked to have read some of the profiles and wahtever articles were in it.

And personally, I don't care what any sourcebook or bitter old man might tell me, "The River" counts. Up yours.

[Cipher]

It probably would have been a fun, interesting little product, provided no one took the timeline/canon too seriously.

But of course, they would have. And in that it sounds like it wouldn't have provided too many new insights for long-time fans (and wouldn't be marketed to anyone else), it may indeed have been for the best.

[Ninjinister]

I didn't give an old rat's ass what was supposedly considered canon or not by Mirage's standards. We all had an inkling about what was and wasn't anyway. I just really like the Who's Who's and so forth type of books that have information and gnarly pictures. Like an official, professional wiki in book form.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

And personally, I don't care what any sourcebook or bitter old man might tell me, "The River" counts. Up yours.

Quoted for truth!

[TristanHuwJones]

If I remember right, the only reason River didn't count was because of character rights issues. Remember the whole saga with Cerebus appearing in the reprint? Same deal. And I don't think too many people bothered to check in to the whole thing as recently as the book was being put into production.

There's a lot of misinformed hate directed at Peter regarding that particular story.

Back on track. I for one am massively bummed it didn't come out. It was my first editorial job, and something I'd wanted to work on for a very long time. And yeah, a LOT of work was going into that book when I had it. Probably more work than I'd done on any Turtles book, because it meant re-reading everything, scrutinizing every inconsistency, coming up with plausible/reasonable explanations for them, figuring out chronologies, ages, histories, etc.

I was writing it so that anyone who hadn't read a TMNT comic could be brought completely up to speed on all the important relationships, events, issues, etc. pertinent to those characters, and also putting stuff in there based on research and approved annotations that WOULD provide new material for long time fans. Casey's history with Hun, the Purple Dragons, the Shredder (NOT Oroku Saki), all of these things and more were going to have a lot more put in there than people seem to think. Not even everyone in the Mirage continuity was going to make it in by the time everything was worked out. We had a page limit, which was pretty big if I remember rightly, and there was no way it was all going to fit in. I think that there was talk of a second book to follow it (so long as the first sold), that would fill things in.

I think there were various forms discussed, a few of which fans would've dug, a few which I personally didn't like. In the end, it would've been a cool book to put out there, not just for me professionally, but as a fan to have. But it's all in the past now. As I said on Pete's blog, the TMNT wikia is woeful, and at some point I'll try and recover the documentation that was going to be used in the book and refurbish the information over there.

What it WAS going to be is pretty much what Ninjinister said. Either way, it's not going to be published.

[Oculus Orbus]

I would've loved to have that book. Whether you agree with the continuity given or not, it's still cool as a refference book. But the main reason why I wanted it to get published is because of the galleries with the Mirage characters. That's something I really wanted to see.

[Jephael]

I'd be curious to know if Savanti Juliet was considered canon. I liked that issue a lot!

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

If I remember right, the only reason River didn't count was because of character rights issues. Remember the whole saga with Cerebus appearing in the reprint? Same deal. And I don't think too many people bothered to check in to the whole thing as recently as the book was being put into production.

There's a lot of misinformed hate directed at Peter regarding that particular story.

It's not quite the same as the Cerebus situation. It's because Rick Veitch refused to sign Mirage's "We now own this 100% and you will get no more royalties if this is ever reprinted" contract. Mirage could have still printed it; they just would have had to pay standard royalties to the person who wrote/drew it (oh noes). It would seem that was enough to nix the story from "canon."

With Cerebus, I assume Mirage never presented Dave Sim with that contract, because that would have been the stupidest move ever for anyone who knows anything about Dave Sim. However, perhaps because they didn't have such a signed contract with Sim, they seemed to assume a lack of permission to reprint the story. Of course, they assumed this without bothering to ask him, and when they did he *gasp* actually gave permission (on the grounds that they claim no ownership to Cerebus).

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

As I said on Pete's blog, the TMNT wikia is woeful, and at some point I'll try and recover the documentation that was going to be used in the book and refurbish the information over there.

I appreciate that, because while I do lots of work on there, I'm only one man. The mods and admins are never around anymore, and the other frequently contributor for some reason keeps reverting legitimate information (including, Tristan, at one point, the link to your new blog someone else had added on your entry o.O).

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

It's not quite the same as the Cerebus situation. It's because Rick Veitch refused to sign Mirage's "We now own this 100% and you will get no more royalties if this is ever reprinted" contract. Mirage could have still printed it; they just would have had to pay standard royalties to the person who wrote/drew it (oh noes). It would seem that was enough to nix the story from "canon."

With Cerebus, I assume Mirage never presented Dave Sim with that contract, because that would have been the stupidest move ever for anyone who knows anything about Dave Sim. However, perhaps because they didn't have such a signed contract with Sim, they seemed to assume a lack of permission to reprint the story. Of course, they assumed this without bothering to ask him, and when they did he *gasp* actually gave permission (on the grounds that they claim no ownership to Cerebus).

Yeah, so it was the rights/contracts that meant it couldn't be used. Everyone knows Pete doesn't handle the business end of things. You ever spoken to anyone at Mirage about the lawsuits? Can't exactly blame people for being cautious about things.

I'm also not entirely sure about the terms of those contracts you mentioned, as the core reason the Zulli books were reprinted was to help Mr. Zulli out somewhat financially (if I remember correctly).

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I know a lot of people were initially disappointed Viacom canceled that book, but I'm actually quite happy now. From the sounds of it that book would have pissed off a lot of fans with what issues were "canon" or not, and the fact that it would be incomplete as not all the remaining issues of Tales or the end of Vol. 4 would have been out at that time back in November 2009.

I'm glad the book is canceled. Unless a lot of work is put into something like that, its worthless and would cause controversy among fans.

Glad it was axed.

It's probably for the best. It doesn't matter much what stories are and aren't canon in Peter's Mirage universe if he isn't going to be doing or allowing any stories therein any longer... and then there's the whole thing that when a new comic book publisher starts doing TMNT comics again, they're not going to be asking Peter what's canon and what's not anyway.

[ToTheNines]

I'm still a bit upset it was axed. I hate that Mirage is allowed to publish turtles stuff, but since this don't file under "comic book" it gets mothballed...

Bright side: Less money spent by me. That's about it.... That, and the fact that we've fixed a good handful of goofs in the timeline since then.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

I appreciate that, because while I do lots of work on there, I'm only one man. The mods and admins are never around anymore, and the other frequently contributor for some reason keeps reverting legitimate information (including, Tristan, at one point, the link to your new blog someone else had added on your entry o.O).

Please tell me you're not Repo Man... I'm currently having a battle with him over some stupid sh*t he deems necessary to be in the Turtles Forever page. I wrote on his talk page and I think he deleted it.

[Kendamu]

I know I would've had fun reading it. That's all that matters to me.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Please tell me you're not Repo Man... I'm currently having a battle with him over some stupid sh*t he deems necessary to be in the Turtles Forever page. I wrote on his talk page and I think he deleted it.

Actually, he's the one that I was referring to as constantly deleting and reverting.

[DK2]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I'm also not entirely sure about the terms of those contracts you mentioned, as the core reason the Zulli books were reprinted was to help Mr. Zulli out somewhat financially (if I remember correctly).

So the Souls Winter trade was printed to help Mr Zulli? It wasn't reprinted for it being a classic or anything? Or capitalize that he was Vertigo's Sandman artist or such? That seems more like a favour or need to help Zulli whatever it was for (does anyone even know why Zulli needed some dough?). I don't mean to pry or anything, I've no idea what Zulli does these days either. And what could Mirage give him? I'm under the impression Mirage doesn't pay too much to the talent. I always wondered why Mirage even reprinted this book. They coulda done other stories in such a one off trade.