For the record, do you consider the Image series part of the Mirage universe?

*CyberCubed* · 07-04-2010, 07:48 PM

I'm noticing this is being brought up a lot lately, so let's have a poll.

It was officially stated when it was being released for the first time, that the Image series was a direct continuation of the Mirage universe, and at the time took place right after Volume 2 ended. You can read Kevin/Pete's thoughts on the Image series in the editorial section of the first issue or so.

When Vol. 4 started PL decided to ignore the events in the Image series. Yet he still named his series, "Vol 4" instead of "Vol. 3." What does that imply? That he still considered the Image series "Volume 3" because there is no Mirage volume 3 otherwise.

So what do you think? I consider it part of the Mirage universe and in a way helps fill the gap of the Turtles lives for those years.

*Powder* · 07-04-2010, 09:33 PM

Yes I do. It WAS canon & will forever be in my eyes despite Petes say. Lets just say an unseen chain of events had things taken care of & brought into vol. 4. Thats how I feel about it.

*oldmanwinters* · 07-04-2010, 10:05 PM

My argument is that while Volume 3 was composed within the framework of the pre-Vol. 4 Mirage Universe, I can't assume that it held up within the same multiverse in which Volume 4 and Tales Volume 2 exist... at least not until some creative minds find a way to reconcile them. Until we see what happens with the fan project, I consider them two different streams of the timeline. The primary reason is that all the Mirage Post Volume 2 stories were written with the assumption that the Image stuff wasn't canon. Authorial intent is a big deal for me. Thus, until a convincing attempt at reconciliation is made, I consider Image non-canon with the later Mirage Universe.

*CyberCubed* · 07-04-2010, 10:10 PM

The thing is, the new stuff didn't really contradict anything that happened in the Image series.

Well aside from the Turtles being back to, "normal," but that will be covered. So ignoring the Turtles injuries being healed, what did they contradict?

If anything, Leatherhead's healing powers/losing his mind, and Dr. X the Utrom got explained in Tales of the TMNT. Also, Shadow's family history wasn't contradicted. Nor was anything with the Foot Clan or the Triceratons.

*Andrew NDB* · 07-04-2010, 11:24 PM

If one never read the lettercol of Vol. 4 (and the very fact that Mirage Vol. 4 is called "Volume 4" is a little telling in itself) there would be no reason to conclude that Vol. 3 is not canon. It was absolutely intended to be.

*gobo* · 07-05-2010, 01:30 AM

I don't necessarily call it canon, but I'm one of those who isn't really concerned with the validity of stories that don't appeal to me anyway. It's clear that it was intended to be canon, but Laird decided not to build upon those events, so it's now one of the many spin-offs like the Zulli or Hedden & McWeeny arcs. So, I voted "no" as in "not anymore".

EDIT: It is still part of the Mirage universe in my book though; just not canon.

Nelson · 07-05-2010, 06:45 AM

There's a moment in Volume 4 when Leonardo's shell is injured, and Karai and the Foot aid him, patching his shell using a new, experimental techique... and while it doesn't contradict the events of Volume 3, the fact that Leo did not mention that the shell would heal itself with time was very weird.

*Powder* · 07-05-2010, 06:56 AM

One could always say either he didn't have the chance to, or it was irrelevant because it had to be taken care of ASAP. (Who really wants to just say "Ah, it'll get better don't worry"?) It'd have been in his best interests to be healed sooner then later.

View Poll Results: Do you consider the Image series part of the Mirage universe?
Yes	15	62.50%
No	7	29.17%
I used to but now I am undecided	2	8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

07-04-2010, 07:48 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,814	For the record, do you consider the Image series part of the Mirage universe? I'm noticing this is being brought up a lot lately, so let's have a poll. It was officially stated when it was being released for the first time, that the Image series was a direct continuation of the Mirage universe, and at the time took place right after Volume 2 ended. You can read Kevin/Pete's thoughts on the Image series in the editorial section of the first issue or so. When Vol. 4 started PL decided to ignore the events in the Image series. Yet he still named his series, "Vol 4" instead of "Vol. 3." What does that imply? That he still considered the Image series "Volume 3" because there is no Mirage volume 3 otherwise. So what do you think? I consider it part of the Mirage universe and in a way helps fill the gap of the Turtles lives for those years.

07-04-2010, 10:05 PM	#3
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,480	My argument is that while Volume 3 was composed within the framework of the pre-Vol. 4 Mirage Universe, I can't assume that it held up within the same multiverse in which Volume 4 and Tales Volume 2 exist... at least not until some creative minds find a way to reconcile them. Until we see what happens with the fan project, I consider them two different streams of the timeline. The primary reason is that all the Mirage Post Volume 2 stories were written with the assumption that the Image stuff wasn't canon. Authorial intent is a big deal for me. Thus, until a convincing attempt at reconciliation is made, I consider Image non-canon with the later Mirage Universe. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

07-04-2010, 11:24 PM	#5
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,429	If one never read the lettercol of Vol. 4 (and the very fact that Mirage Vol. 4 is called "Volume 4" is a little telling in itself) there would be no reason to conclude that Vol. 3 is not canon. It was absolutely intended to be. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

07-05-2010, 01:30 AM	#6
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	I don't necessarily call it canon, but I'm one of those who isn't really concerned with the validity of stories that don't appeal to me anyway. It's clear that it was intended to be canon, but Laird decided not to build upon those events, so it's now one of the many spin-offs like the Zulli or Hedden & McWeeny arcs. So, I voted "no" as in "not anymore". EDIT: It is still part of the Mirage universe in my book though; just not canon. __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell.

07-04-2010, 09:33 PM	#2
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	Yes I do. It WAS canon & will forever be in my eyes despite Petes say. Lets just say an unseen chain of events had things taken care of & brought into vol. 4. Thats how I feel about it.

07-04-2010, 10:10 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,814	The thing is, the new stuff didn't really contradict anything that happened in the Image series. Well aside from the Turtles being back to, "normal," but that will be covered. So ignoring the Turtles injuries being healed, what did they contradict? If anything, Leatherhead's healing powers/losing his mind, and Dr. X the Utrom got explained in Tales of the TMNT. Also, Shadow's family history wasn't contradicted. Nor was anything with the Foot Clan or the Triceratons.

07-05-2010, 06:45 AM	#7
Nelson Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 673	There's a moment in Volume 4 when Leonardo's shell is injured, and Karai and the Foot aid him, patching his shell using a new, experimental techique... and while it doesn't contradict the events of Volume 3, the fact that Leo did not mention that the shell would heal itself with time was very weird.

07-05-2010, 06:56 AM	#8
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	One could always say either he didn't have the chance to, or it was irrelevant because it had to be taken care of ASAP. (Who really wants to just say "Ah, it'll get better don't worry"?) It'd have been in his best interests to be healed sooner then later.