Seriously....why didn't 4kids give us a Usagi animated series?

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle · 07-28-2010, 11:59 PM

To me, and to many other TMNT 2k3 fans, Usagi was my favorite recurring guest star character. Every episode with him in it was gold. Especially 'Samurai Tourist', which I thought was the best episode of Season 4. (His fight scene against Kojima was awesome.) I wish he appeared in more episodes and I really wish 4kids would of found a way to develop him into his own animated series.

*Powder* · 07-29-2010, 12:15 AM

Well first of all, ultimately, its not up to them. Stan Sakai has been approached many times over the years to do video games, TV shows, films (If I'm not mistaken), & numerous other projects but turned them down. Most fans of Usagi Yojimbo in his original format know that Stan does everything himself. He writes the comics, inks them, watercolors alot of the pieces that see print (aside from Tom Luth's digitally colored covers) & does the investigative research to make sure his stories are historicaly/culturally accurate. He likes to be independant.

When other people start to come in & tell you whats too violent, too boring, too educational, too short/long etc, you lose your creative control. Also, Usagi isn't really a multi-universe character so much as the turtles are. Yes, he's appeared in their respective universes (comics, shows) but at the hands of Stan, he will always be in 16th century Japan (correct me if my timeline is off) as a noble warrior. *Note that there is the "Space Usagi" series but that was a short lived thing anyway.* Perhaps in cartoon form there would've been parts of the franchise that got lost in translation, or watered down significantly. Stan likes his characters to retain the same diginity & heart that they've always had & I think he feels that only he can portray that. I can't speak on his behalf 100%, but I'm pretty sure he's elaborated on this in the past & I'm paraphrasing it (sort of...).

There is a pilot for a "Space Usagi" cartoon that you can find on youtube but the show was rejected due to "Bucky O'hare" (Anthromorphic rabbit in space cartoon) not being all that well received. Granted there were samurai elements in Usagi, I suppose it wasn't all that different to the masses. Understandable, I suppose.

At the end of the day, Mr. Sakai just doesn't want to see it happen. I can't blame him. Its his property & he has every right to do what he wants with it. I imagine Peter Laird led by example in how to get your characters bastardized. Stan has publicly spoken on his views of the turtles renditions of Usagi saying that he didn't care for the way they were portrayed both in personality & physical appearance. If the creator isn't happy, its no bueno. Especially when the fans are used to only the creators version.

Though Usagi is a samurai bunny, which is seemingly absurd & unrealistic, many fans take him & his trials very seriously. He may look like a kiddie show character but he is aimed at teens & adults respectively. The code of bushido, tactics of combat & other elements of that era are very significant to asian history & it may be in poor taste to simplify them for little kids who would not truly grasp the concepts.

*gobo* · 07-29-2010, 09:24 AM

Powder said it better than I would have. Still, this is kind of an arrogant question as there's no reason to believe 4Kids ever had the power to do any such thing. I agree that it would have been badass (as long as they kept the seasons brief), but it just wasn't in the cards. 4Kids never even had the option to display the Usagi character designs on their web site. So, acting like it's 4Kids' fault that this didn't happen is unreasonably hurtful.

Stephen · 07-29-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Stan Sakai has been approached many times over the years to do video games, TV shows, films (If I'm not mistaken), & numerous other projects but turned them down.

Not entirely. There was at least one Usagi video game back in the Spectrum/C64 days.

*Powder* · 07-29-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Not entirely. There was at least one Usagi video game back in the Spectrum/C64 days.

Yeah, I know. If you've ever played it you'd realize why he opted not to do another haha.

jaymq · 07-29-2010, 06:09 PM

Powder nailed it.

And to be honest. I'm glad Usagi never went mainstream. Mainstream can hurt a lot of things more than it can help it.

Sakai is on that short list of writers / artists I actually respect and this is one of the reasons.

*Powder* · 07-29-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosandra

I'm glad Usagi never went mainstream. Mainstream can hurt a lot of things more than it can help it.

Sakai is on that short list of writers / artists I actually respect and this is one of the reasons.

If that were a facebook post, I'd like it!

Vivi · 07-29-2010, 11:43 PM

Agreed that Usagi is one of the greatest recurring characters in the turtle verse that could totally have pulled off his own show. He is pretty bad ass in the Battle Nexus arc. I understand why he would be hesitant have Usagi's character undermined, but even so, I wish Stan Sakai would chance his creation with some skilled people that respect his vision.

*Mr.Turtle* · 08-25-2010, 05:52 AM

look at the bright side: usagi reflacts leo from head to toe. Simply relax&watch leo kick some butts. It will bring u the memories of ur hero. Maybe u will feel better.

Fugitoid Jones · 09-01-2010, 04:16 AM

I'd give my left nut for an Usagi tv series or film. I can understand being protective of your property, but look what Kevin and Peter did with their property. Tons of dough and bajillions of fans. C'mon Stan, gimme more Usagi!

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle · 09-01-2010, 09:02 AM

I had no idea that Stan was that protective of his property. At least he agreed to the cartoon crossovers on both shows, especially 2k3 since Usagi was such a bad-ass fighter in every episode we saw him. (Of course, with the exception of the Christmas episode.) Let's just hope his character makes another guest appearance in the 3rd animated series.

jaymq · 09-01-2010, 09:08 AM

TMNT and Usagi were created around the same time and they've shared crossovers in multiple universes (Usagi comics, Classic toon, 2k3 and I think in turtles comics too), not a strange thing he'd allow the character to appear in turtles shows. he's also a friend to Laird as I understand which helps.

I doubt we'll see anymore now though since Nick owns Turtles now and I'm sure Stan isn't interested in turning his character into mainstream. Which I honestly give him Kudos for.

*shuriken* · 09-13-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

I'd give my left nut for an Usagi tv series or film. I can understand being protective of your property, but look what Kevin and Peter did with their property. Tons of dough and bajillions of fans. C'mon Stan, gimme more Usagi!

Left nut huh...
Yeah I think He's happy with his success, and unlike Laird and Kevin, he wants to keep Usagi under his control, and his vision.

*Powder* · 09-13-2010, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

but look what Kevin and Peter did with their property. Tons of dough and bajillions of fans.

Yeah, and look what happened as a result.
They let other people have creative control & lost their integrity as artists.
Kevin sold his rights, Pete sold the whole property.

Fugitoid Jones · 09-14-2010, 12:54 AM

Quote:

They let other people have creative control & lost their integrity as artists.
Kevin sold his rights, Pete sold the whole property.

You're right. I'm just saying that most of us wouldn't be here if Kev and Pete wanted to keep their artistic integrity.

LioConvoy · 10-17-2010, 07:50 PM

I'm a HUGE fan of Usagi Yojimbo. And though I believe I would enjoy an animated series, Sakai has every right to be concerned with his property. He has my complete support.

k_lala · 10-19-2010, 11:37 AM

There's not a huge fanbase for an Usagi toon. I never even knew who he was until 2K3 came out. You can't just decide and invest millions of dollars into something like that. Sure it sounds good to some people but think of the bigger picture.

Even high profile toon series like He-Man which came back a few years ago failed. The episodes were actually great but the toys didn't sell, and perhaps ratings weren't as expected. But you can't deny the pop culture of He Man back in the day.

Seriously if i even said, they should make a new toon series based of BeBop and Rocksteady everyone would say YEAAH LETS DO IT!! Then i'll ask everyone to help and pitch in 50 grand each so we can all invest then they'll say wtf are you insane!

Just because 10 people here and there say yeah that's cool doesn't mean mainstream America will.

Fugitoid Jones · 10-24-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_lala

There's not a huge fanbase for an Usagi toon. I never even knew who he was until 2K3 came out. You can't just decide and invest millions of dollars into something like that. Sure it sounds good to some people but think of the bigger picture.

Even high profile toon series like He-Man which came back a few years ago failed. The episodes were actually great but the toys didn't sell, and perhaps ratings weren't as expected. But you can't deny the pop culture of He Man back in the day.

Seriously if i even said, they should make a new toon series based of BeBop and Rocksteady everyone would say YEAAH LETS DO IT!! Then i'll ask everyone to help and pitch in 50 grand each so we can all invest then they'll say wtf are you insane!

Just because 10 people here and there say yeah that's cool doesn't mean mainstream America will.

The only problem I have with this argument is that the Turtles weren't a well known property before the OT, yet here we are. Something doesn't have to be a pop culture phenom in order for studios to make a cartoon out of it, although it does help sometimes.

07-28-2010, 11:59 PM	#1
Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 858	Seriously....why didn't 4kids give us a Usagi animated series? To me, and to many other TMNT 2k3 fans, Usagi was my favorite recurring guest star character. Every episode with him in it was gold. Especially 'Samurai Tourist', which I thought was the best episode of Season 4. (His fight scene against Kojima was awesome.) I wish he appeared in more episodes and I really wish 4kids would of found a way to develop him into his own animated series. __________________

07-29-2010, 09:24 AM	#3
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	Powder said it better than I would have. Still, this is kind of an arrogant question as there's no reason to believe 4Kids ever had the power to do any such thing. I agree that it would have been badass (as long as they kept the seasons brief), but it just wasn't in the cards. 4Kids never even had the option to display the Usagi character designs on their web site. So, acting like it's 4Kids' fault that this didn't happen is unreasonably hurtful. __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell. Last edited by gobo; 07-29-2010 at 06:40 PM.

07-29-2010, 06:09 PM	#6
jaymq Hench Mutant Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 435	Powder nailed it. And to be honest. I'm glad Usagi never went mainstream. Mainstream can hurt a lot of things more than it can help it. Sakai is on that short list of writers / artists I actually respect and this is one of the reasons. __________________ Nom

08-25-2010, 05:52 AM	#9
Mr.Turtle Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North America Posts: 1,652	look at the bright side: usagi reflacts leo from head to toe. Simply relax&watch leo kick some butts. It will bring u the memories of ur hero. Maybe u will feel better. __________________

09-01-2010, 04:16 AM	#10
Fugitoid Jones Stone Warrior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: D'hoonib, VT Posts: 886	I'd give my left nut for an Usagi tv series or film. I can understand being protective of your property, but look what Kevin and Peter did with their property. Tons of dough and bajillions of fans. C'mon Stan, gimme more Usagi! __________________ "You are right, I have always known about man. From the evidence, I believe his wisdom must walk hand and hand with his idiocy. His emotions must rule his brain. He must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him, even himself." -Dr. Zaius

07-29-2010, 12:15 AM	#2
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	Well first of all, ultimately, its not up to them. Stan Sakai has been approached many times over the years to do video games, TV shows, films (If I'm not mistaken), & numerous other projects but turned them down. Most fans of Usagi Yojimbo in his original format know that Stan does everything himself. He writes the comics, inks them, watercolors alot of the pieces that see print (aside from Tom Luth's digitally colored covers) & does the investigative research to make sure his stories are historicaly/culturally accurate. He likes to be independant. When other people start to come in & tell you whats too violent, too boring, too educational, too short/long etc, you lose your creative control. Also, Usagi isn't really a multi-universe character so much as the turtles are. Yes, he's appeared in their respective universes (comics, shows) but at the hands of Stan, he will always be in 16th century Japan (correct me if my timeline is off) as a noble warrior. Note that there is the "Space Usagi" series but that was a short lived thing anyway. Perhaps in cartoon form there would've been parts of the franchise that got lost in translation, or watered down significantly. Stan likes his characters to retain the same diginity & heart that they've always had & I think he feels that only he can portray that. I can't speak on his behalf 100%, but I'm pretty sure he's elaborated on this in the past & I'm paraphrasing it (sort of...). There is a pilot for a "Space Usagi" cartoon that you can find on youtube but the show was rejected due to "Bucky O'hare" (Anthromorphic rabbit in space cartoon) not being all that well received. Granted there were samurai elements in Usagi, I suppose it wasn't all that different to the masses. Understandable, I suppose. At the end of the day, Mr. Sakai just doesn't want to see it happen. I can't blame him. Its his property & he has every right to do what he wants with it. I imagine Peter Laird led by example in how to get your characters bastardized. Stan has publicly spoken on his views of the turtles renditions of Usagi saying that he didn't care for the way they were portrayed both in personality & physical appearance. If the creator isn't happy, its no bueno. Especially when the fans are used to only the creators version. Though Usagi is a samurai bunny, which is seemingly absurd & unrealistic, many fans take him & his trials very seriously. He may look like a kiddie show character but he is aimed at teens & adults respectively. The code of bushido, tactics of combat & other elements of that era are very significant to asian history & it may be in poor taste to simplify them for little kids who would not truly grasp the concepts.

07-29-2010, 11:43 PM	#8
Vivi Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ninja HQ, Moon Posts: 1,076	Agreed that Usagi is one of the greatest recurring characters in the turtle verse that could totally have pulled off his own show. He is pretty bad ass in the Battle Nexus arc. I understand why he would be hesitant have Usagi's character undermined, but even so, I wish Stan Sakai would chance his creation with some skilled people that respect his vision.

09-01-2010, 09:02 AM	#11
Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 858	I had no idea that Stan was that protective of his property. At least he agreed to the cartoon crossovers on both shows, especially 2k3 since Usagi was such a bad-ass fighter in every episode we saw him. (Of course, with the exception of the Christmas episode.) Let's just hope his character makes another guest appearance in the 3rd animated series. __________________ Last edited by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle; 09-14-2010 at 11:02 AM.

09-01-2010, 09:08 AM	#12
jaymq Hench Mutant Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 435	TMNT and Usagi were created around the same time and they've shared crossovers in multiple universes (Usagi comics, Classic toon, 2k3 and I think in turtles comics too), not a strange thing he'd allow the character to appear in turtles shows. he's also a friend to Laird as I understand which helps. I doubt we'll see anymore now though since Nick owns Turtles now and I'm sure Stan isn't interested in turning his character into mainstream. Which I honestly give him Kudos for. __________________ Nom

10-17-2010, 07:50 PM	#16
LioConvoy Random Punk Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 44	I'm a HUGE fan of Usagi Yojimbo. And though I believe I would enjoy an animated series, Sakai has every right to be concerned with his property. He has my complete support.

10-19-2010, 11:37 AM	#17
k_lala Hench Mutant Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 413	There's not a huge fanbase for an Usagi toon. I never even knew who he was until 2K3 came out. You can't just decide and invest millions of dollars into something like that. Sure it sounds good to some people but think of the bigger picture. Even high profile toon series like He-Man which came back a few years ago failed. The episodes were actually great but the toys didn't sell, and perhaps ratings weren't as expected. But you can't deny the pop culture of He Man back in the day. Seriously if i even said, they should make a new toon series based of BeBop and Rocksteady everyone would say YEAAH LETS DO IT!! Then i'll ask everyone to help and pitch in 50 grand each so we can all invest then they'll say wtf are you insane! Just because 10 people here and there say yeah that's cool doesn't mean mainstream America will.