Abraham Lincoln an Utrom?

[jaymq]

http://tmnt.wikia.com/wiki/Agent_Bishop (first paragraph of Origins section)

Can someone refer to me the episode this is referenced in? I don't recall any such thing, but it would explain why Bishop showed no interest in the Utroms despite their long term presence on earth.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I believe it was mentioned in the bonus Utrom bio in the third TMNT game (Mutant Nightmare).

[Ninjinister]

Before that, it was shown on television.

[Bauer536]

Spoiler:

I must say, not a bad drawing of Mr. Lincoln, or should I say Cherel #64 or so.How stupid is this?

You know, I can't stand it when people twist history. It's one thing to have the Cigarette Smoking Man on the X Files being the one who shot Kennedy, but this is ridiculous. Lincoln must have been rolling in his grave during all this.

If kids were watching this, all I could picture them asking their teachers would be, "Was Lincoln a utrom?" Absolutely ridiculous.

Abraham Lincoln was a real man, not an alien! So what, now we're supposed to believe that George Washington was a robot made by a slave who is Stockman's great-great-great-grandfather?! Are we supposed to believe Martin Luther King was some weird creature that tried to free blacks from segregation?! What's next, Jesus is a robot controlled by the utroms who are really "God?" So idiotic.

I know we have freedom of speech, but no one should twist anything that has been seen or proven or taught in history. Love the drawing, hate the concept. That is all I have to say.

[Toby Barrett]

It's a cartoon, calm down.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by Toby Barrett

It's a cartoon, calm down.

I know it's a cartoon. Whether it's a cartoon or not, I don't like it when people twist history. Yes, I'm taking it literally. I've done a project on Lincoln as a boy, and I admire his keen sense of strategy during the Civil War. Also, I loved that he was honest as a president. Unless you have any dirt of any moment he wasn't honest, I don't want to know. I just don't want to start asking questions whether or not he was really human. I know he was human. So to me, what 4Kids did is a disgrace to Lincoln lovers and to anybody who loves America.

I know it's a cartoon. Still, cartoons shouldn't alter history. You can't alter history like that. It's just not right. Plus, it's so controversial. That's all.

[Raph's Girl]

Abe Lincoln was an Utrom?! So THAT's what was under the hat....

Well could be worse. He could also have been a Vampire Hunter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham...Vampire_Hunter

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

I just don't want to start asking questions whether or not he was really human. I know he was human. So to me, what 4Kids did is a disgrace to Lincoln lovers and to anybody who loves America.

...and people who can't tell the difference between a cartoon and reality?

[Keysi-Turtle]

I think what Bauer is trying to say is that if you're going to make an historical figure into an Utrom, don't have it be Abraham Lincoln of all people.

Not that I necessarily agree.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa

...and people who can't tell the difference between a cartoon and reality?

Very funny. And the next thing you notice, you're going to use that line from that Cheers episode that Wile E. Coyote is the antichrist. I get it. It's a cartoon. I just don't think it's right to alter history. That is all and that is final. We don't need to tease others to make things better. Let's just move on from here.

Anyway, it would be interesting if the turtles met a famous dead president. I'm guessing for Lincoln, it'd be Leo. Don's more for the Thomas Jefferson kind. Would you agree?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I think they chose Lincoln because he's easily recognizable - suit, hat, big black beard. Even George Washington you have to sort take a few seconds' look to see that it's him. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have made it Lincoln - maybe someone (a real person) with a mysterious past.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Very funny. And the next thing you notice, you're going to use that line from that Cheers episode that Wile E. Coyote is the antichrist. I get it. It's a cartoon. I just don't think it's right to alter history. That is all and that is final. We don't need to tease others to make things better. Let's just move on from here.

You do know that much of what you read in the history books at school is lies, don't you? Most kids these days know that cartoons are NOT REAL. How old are you? Like 12? Your thought processes would lead me to believe so.

[Donnie]

As a history teacher, I agree that making Abe Lincoln an utrom in an episode appears silly and facetious. Historical analysis is sometimes twisted by differing opinions citing various sources here and there to "cherry pick" the information they (the writer) wants you to know or believe. That doesn't mean that whatever the writer is advocating is false, it's just that maybe they are exaggerating or indulging a little bit. Good history is objective history - it is a social science, after all. Only with rigorous work and dedication can a historian come to an objective truth based on various credible sources. History is in question every day, for there are so many things left unsaid, so many actions needed to be brought to life, and many new ways to explore them.

My point is that although I think making "Honest Abe" an utrom is silly (and I wouldn't want a student interrupting my class to tell me Abe was an alien which in turn distracts the whole class) I do hope that people (even kids watching the show) would be able to distinguish reality from fiction. Also, not to corrupt your image of Mr. Lincoln, Bauer, but he wasn't perfect - and I'm sure there were times when he wasn't so honest, either. He was human, after all.

Originally Posted by ***Son of Ch'rell***

You do know that much of what you read in the history books at school is lies, don't you?

Nonsense. The information you read about in history books may not all be correct, a reasonable academic must realize that error is imminent when dealing with the past. However, to say that most of it is lies is just as immature as you're claiming Bauer to be. That information was compiled by credible historians who have spent many hard hours toiling to discover the truth. Stop spreading misinformation because you didn't like school.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by DonnyTMNT

As a history teacher, I agree that making Abe Lincoln an utrom in an episode appears silly and facetious. Historical analysis is sometimes twisted by differing opinions citing various sources here and there to "cherry pick" the information they (the writer) wants you to know or believe. That doesn't mean that whatever the writer is advocating is false, it's just that maybe they are exaggerating or indulging a little bit. Good history is objective history - it is a social science, after all. Only with rigorous work and dedication can a historian come to an objective truth based on various credible sources. History is in question every day, for there are so many things left unsaid, so many actions needed to be brought to life, and many new ways to explore them.

Okay, end rant. My point is that although I think making "Honest Abe" an utrom is silly (and I wouldn't want a student interrupting my class to tell me Abe was an alien which in turn distracts the whole class) I do hope that people (even kids watching the show) would be able to distinguish reality from fiction. Also, not to corrupt your image of Mr. Lincoln, Bauer, but he wasn't perfect - and I'm sure there were times were he wasn't so honest, either. He was human, after all.

I agree. We do tend to question history everyday. I believe I have been taught that in my first year of college.

Yes, Lincoln was human. So was Washington. Nobody was perfect. I'm just saying that if someone wants to make a president an alien, then it should be a bad president. I don't know. I guess it's subjective to think of a bad president, because to someone else, he might have been a good president. Still, you know what I'm saying.

[Donnie]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Yes, Lincoln was human. So was Washington. Nobody was perfect. I'm just saying that if someone wants to make a president an alien, then it should be a bad president. I don't know. I guess it's subjective to think of a bad president, because to someone else, he might have been a good president. Still, you know what I'm saying.

I do understand what you're saying. I wouldn't take kindly to one of my favorite historical figures being made into an alien, either. Even if it was done in a Turtles episode! I'm actually surprised PL was cool with that decision. From his blog posts (2k3 notes) he's clearly very demanding about the characters and plots in his show. I wonder what he thought of this ep...

[Bauer536]

I don't want to be mean about him, but possibly, he was out of his mind. To me, some bizzare storylines are fine for TMNT, but if it comes to the point where it becomes dumb, it should be stopped. Who do you think is/was an awful president. We may have different views, but I think ours today seems to be a Baxter Stockman, if you know what I mean.

I don't want to get in a political discussion, because then that may get some members (like us) in trouble. So let's keep this light.

So, what would you say?

[Toby Barrett]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Very funny. And the next thing you notice, you're going to use that line from that Cheers episode that Wile E. Coyote is the antichrist. I get it. It's a cartoon. I just don't think it's right to alter history. That is all and that is final. We don't need to tease others to make things better. Let's just move on from here.

Anyway, it would be interesting if the turtles met a famous dead president. I'm guessing for Lincoln, it'd be Leo. Don's more for the Thomas Jefferson kind. Would you agree?

We shouldn't alter history but it would be neat if the Turtles met famous people from history?

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

So to me, what 4Kids did is a disgrace to Lincoln lovers and to anybody who loves America.

No, it isn't. It's called alternative history, which has been part of story telling as long as there have been stories to tell.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Very funny. And the next thing you notice, you're going to use that line from that Cheers episode that Wile E. Coyote is the antichrist. I get it. It's a cartoon. I just don't think it's right to alter history.

Dude, history has not been altered. History already happened.

You mean to tell me...

...that you don't like Back To The Future?!

[CyberCubed]

I guess in real life Utroms did crash into the earth in ancient Japan.