Mutagen in Turtles Forever

[Coola Yagami]

I know the series had a few snags here and there when it came to the OT, like calling the Turtle Van the Party Wagon, and all the noogies as if it was an OT-trademark or whatever, but wow, the Mutagen thing was all over the place.

First off, that fly should have turned all-out humanoid (instead of just grow into a dog-sized insect) and talk and such.... sure it would have been too much like Baxter, but they could have some other insect or whatever... And why did the Mutagen turn the hyena guy and the Foot and such into mindless growling monsters... and yet TurtleHun was still able to talk and reason like Splinter/Bebop/Rocksteady do? I always figured Mutagen worked different once it entered 2K3Land, making them turn into just larger monsterous animals, rather than more humanoid, but Hun seems to be the exception of that rule.

[Icebot]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

First off, that fly should have turned all-out humanoid (instead of just grow into a dog-sized insect) and talk and such....

That also happened in the old toon episode Big Bug Blunder only Krang said something happened to that mutagen and it doesn't work like regular mutagen.

[Spitfire]

This is why it's best to just assume TF is completely non-canon. It just makes a lot more sense that way.

[Metropoliskid41]

My take on it would have to be that each case is unique. I mean in the Secret of the Ooze we saw Tokka and Rahzor as drooling morons. Sure they were "babies" which doesn't really make sense to me why Tatsu would grab babies but whatever. And you see Tokka and Rahzor in Turtles Forever, and obviously they don't have any lines or anything to disprove that they are any less stupid in TF as they were in Secret of the Ooze. So I guess its kind of fifty/fifty or up to chance. I think Baxter was definitely dumber as the fly than he was as a human. With Bebop & Rocksteady its tough to say as they seemed pretty dumb as humans, yet they were definitely dumber season 2+ due to the writing but one could argue that they were in fact dumber post mutation. And for the dog guy, maybe he was just all amped up for battle so his angression mixed with animal mutation and traits made him into a drooling hyped up adrenaline infused animal.

As for the fly, yeah he shoulda mutated into a human, maybe on the animal side its not an instantaneous thing, and the human traits woulda came later? I really enjoy Turtles Forever so I'm trying hard to make it all work

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

This is why it's best to just assume TF is completely non-canon. It just makes a lot more sense that way.

Well that's a lazy-ass way of seeing things.

[Andrew NDB]

My thoughts: It's canon for every universe but the only Turtles that come out remembering the events from it would be the 4Kids Turtles (for the Fred Wolf and Mirage TMNT, it's not that they would forget the events or that they did not happen, but just that their respective timelines would be readjusted so that for them, these events would not have happened), the mutagen from the Fred Wolf universe was as consistent as anything else in that show, and the tone and treatment of the Fred Wolf TMNT in it was pretty generous especially considering it basically had the Fred Wolf TMNT "win" the whole big climax.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

This is why it's best to just assume TF is completely non-canon. It just makes a lot more sense that way.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Even the original cartoon was terribly inconsistent with how mutagen worked.

Would you mind explaining how Muckman and Joe eyeball got mutated into garbage? Unless there was some living bacteria in that garbage, how the hell did they mutate into that?

The mutagen worked differently on an ep to ep basis.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Even the original cartoon was terribly inconsistent with how mutagen worked.

Would you mind explaining how Muckman and Joe eyeball got mutated into garbage? Unless there was some living bacteria in that garbage, how the hell did they mutate into that?

The mutagen worked differently on an ep to ep basis.

It was usually explained as different within the episode. like with mutagen man, it was mutagenic acid, and i think the batch from muckman was flawed which is why it was tossed in the trash. the mutant cow thing was also unstable.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

It's hard to believe the people at 4Kids missed this.

My only guess is that is matters on how much. The fly got a little, Tokka got one canister, and Hun got, like four.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Metropoliskid41

My take on it would have to be that each case is unique. I mean in the Secret of the Ooze we saw Tokka and Rahzor as drooling morons.

That was because Professor Perry contaminated their mutagen without Shredder knowing.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Even the original cartoon was terribly inconsistent with how mutagen worked.

Would you mind explaining how Muckman and Joe eyeball got mutated into garbage? Unless there was some living bacteria in that garbage, how the hell did they mutate into that?

The mutagen worked differently on an ep to ep basis.

Exactly. We're seriously gonna nit pick the consistency of something from the Fred Wolf toon. Jesus Christ, just look at "Planet of the Turtleoids", mutagen turned a regular hamster into a fu**ing human Sumo wrestler.

[AT-Man]

Maybe Hun didn't lose his mind because he was in contact with the Turtles, who are as intelligent as humans, and the guy that became a dog was in contact with a "stupider" animal.

Whatever the case, Turtles Forever is totally canon.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

Well that's a lazy-ass way of seeing things.

How is that lazy? I didn't write TF. I decided TF was non-canon for me way before this question was posed. I've always viewed it that way because it makes zero sense in the continuity for any of the series, except maybe 2K3. But even that is silly if the story isn't canon to the other two then why would it be for 2K3?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

How is that lazy? I didn't write TF. I decided TF was non-canon for me way before this question was posed. I've always viewed it that way because it makes zero sense in the continuity for any of the series, except maybe 2K3. But even that is silly if the story isn't canon to the other two then why would it be for 2K3?

Because it was written by the 4kids writers as a series finale for their show.

Its quite obvious it wouldn't fit in as well with the old toon from entirely different writers, or in the panels of Mirage #1.

[Konchadunga]

One thing that I've also been wondering about is why Ch'rell saw the mutagen as anything unique and promising, considering that the Utroms were demonstrably able to produce an equivalent. It didn't get used as much, yes, but it was there.

[gobo]

Contractual obligation.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because it was written by the 4kids writers as a series finale for their show.

Its quite obvious it wouldn't fit in as well with the old toon from entirely different writers, or in the panels of Mirage #1.

Bodycount was written by Kevin Eastman. Does that make it instantly canon simply because a co-creator did it? Not to me.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Bodycount was written by Kevin Eastman. Does that make it instantly canon simply because a co-creator did it? Not to me.

Apples to oranges.

We've had this discussion before, so I'm not arguing with your point of view here, but that's just not a good comparison.

[sdp]

The only reason I'd even consider TF not canon with the OT is because the turtles were too silly and out of character and counting it's a multiverse it makes sense that maybe it wasn't the OT turtles but a very similar but wackier universe. But that idea sucks, the team up was with the OT obviously, sure they made them the joke of the movie but it's them and the OT also wrote their character very inconsistently from time to time jumping from somewhat serious to very silly from season to season so no biggie. I can understand someone not wanting to put TF, Fast Forward, Red Sky season etc in their personal canon but to imply that it's not canon in general is just silly.

Why was the turtle van called the party wagon though?

[gobo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Apples to oranges.

We've had this discussion before, so I'm not arguing with your point of view here, but that's just not a good comparison.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by sdp

Why was the turtle van called the party wagon though?

Cuz they weren't the OT Turtles. They were the Playmates Turtles.

^Best guess...

[triplexxx]

Maybe by some slim chance the fly had never touched another species before, Hun didn't flick it until after it touched the stuff, maybe the old toon's version of the mutagen works the same as in other universes in a rare case like that.