Laird's vision for Secret of the Ooze

[oldmanwinters]

On his TMNT blog, Peter Laird recently shared his original pitch for the 2nd live-action Turtles movie that he typed up on his Atari ST way back in 1990. It's a very interesting read, but it's clear how far the actual film strayed from Laird's vision. Mostly notably, the film wouldn't include the Shredder (at least not on screen) and the plot would either be a Stockman/Mousers/Rat King thriller or a loose adaptation of the TCRI/Turtles in Space saga from issues #4-7.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....on-second.html

The most interesting part to me was that this movie could set up the plot for the 3rd movie, which Laird hoped would be a "Return to New York" adaptation involving the return and ultimate fate of the Shredder, and a mutated Triceraton's team-up with the Turtles to invade the Shredder's domain. I'll admit that a Mirage Film Trilogy probably would have been awesome (in theory, anyway), but the third film might have lacked a little punch on account of many of the themes of RtNY already being present in the first movie.

How's this for an opening (or closing) scene for the second TMNT movie (maybe run under the credits): A garbage truck rumbles past the camera, heading for the landfill. It stops at the edge of a hill of refuse. The two sanitation engineers get out of the truck, and go around back to make sure the truck makes its dump properly. As the trash spills out, one of the guys sees something metallic glinting in the mess, and pulls it out. He holds it up, and in a medium closeup we see that it's the Shredder's helmet, crushed and twisted.

We both feel that the Shredder should not appear in the second TNT movie, but this might be a subtle enough way to refer to his ambiguous fate and set the scene for his appearance in a third TMNT movie (if that happens).

Anyway… one main concern is that the second (and any subsequent) movie stay as much away from the cartoon show, and as close to the original black and white comics, as the first movie did. We don't want to see Bebop and Rocksteady, or Krang, or any of the other goofy characters. We feel that there is plenty of material in the black and white books to form the basis for another good movie.

One possible approach would be to use some of the elements in TMNT book #2 (the Baxter Stockman/mousers story), or issues 3, 4 and 7. The Stockman/mousers tale is pretty straightforward, and could be lifted from the book with little alterations (have to find another assistant for Stockman, as in the movie April already has a different job). A conceivable addition would be the Rat King character that Jim Lawson created in issue #4 of "Tales of the TMNT", who was also used in the animated series, but not in the best of fashions. The Rat King could be a really neat, visually arresting character on film, and there could be some interesting interactions with him, Splinter, and the mousers.

Other notable details that didn't make it into SotO include a "love triangle" between April, Casey, and Charles Pennington.

Either Danny Pennington or April might accompany the turtles in their raid of the TCRI building only to be captured by the Utroms and placed in a suspended animation tube, ala Splinter from the Mirage comics. If April were to be captured while snooping around the TCRI bilding, then it would have given Casey Jones a reason to assist the Turtles in liberating her.

I think that there are a number of new elements from the first movie that could be easily integrated into this plot. There could be an extension of the developing relationship between Casey and April, possibly with Charles Pennington as a third party in a kind of romantic triangle (some potentially interesting contrast of Casey's and Charles' personalities here). Danny could be brought back, and possibly he could try to help the Turtles by infiltrating the T.C.R.I. building -- but he gets caught by the Utroms, and ends up in one of their suspended animation tanks, to be discovered by the Turtles… in fact, his disappearance could be one of the reasons they enter the building. Actually, for that matter it could be April who does it, doing her nosey reporter thing… except she gets too nosey, and the aliens take her captive. That might even be a good reason for Casey to go with the Turtles, getting him in on the action (and providing a good opportunity for a rescue/reunion clinch with April).

If the movie went with the Stockman/Mouser plot, then the big reveal could be that Baxter Stockman was really an Utrom, using the Mouser scheme to get money to return the Utroms to their homeworld!

We could use the whole mouser scenario that is in book 2… only tie the mousers in with the T.C.R.I. guys -- they created the mousers. Baxter Stockman is actually a T.C.R.I. alien, fronting his mouser idea as a way of making money for the company, to aid their efforts to get off the planet.
(This sets up a scene where Casey confronts Baxter (in the T.C.R.I. building, where he and April have gone to investigate further, with Casey posing as April's cameraman), socking him in the jaw… with the result that Casey almost breaks his hand, and Baxter pulls open his shirt to reveal the T.C.R.I. alien in his robotic belly."

Laird even gives his synopsis for the opening of the 2nd film, which would have introduced Stockman and the Mousers and continued to build upon the themes of Raphael's volatile temper and the strained relationship of April and Casey.

"Teenage Mutant NInja Turtles #2: The Sequel

A Proposed Outline

We open on April O'Neil doing a remote spot covering the test of a new anti-rodent device, called the MOUSER, at the laboratory of Dr. Baxter Stockman, a 30-ish, bespectacled and mustachioed black man. Stockman runs the MOUSER through its paces -- the little robot with the savage gaping jaws chases a large rat through a maze and devours it in less than twenty second -- and, in response to a question from an unnerved April about what he plans to do with his device, Stockman replies that the city of New York has already given him funds to develop an initial force of a dozen mousers, to, in his words, "begin to take care of the city's rat problem -- once and for all!" Closeup on April's face, as she reacts to this statement…

… and dissolve to a closeup of Splinter's hairy face, and pull back to show him sitting cross-legged in front of a TV set, looking very thoughtful as we hear the tail end of April's report. Nearby, Donatello works on a circuit board, soldering small pieces of wire to it… tool and miscellaneous supplies are strewn around the floor. Across from him, Leonardo sits next to Splinter, carefully polishing one of his katana blades. We hear the background noise of sparring going on.

Suddenly, Raphael flies into view, crashing down on a coffee table and smashing it into pieces. Michaelangelo, who has worked a masterful judo move on Raphael, calls out affectionate jibes from the sidelines.

But Raphael doesn't see them as affectionate. He's well on his way to losing his temper, and as he loses it, her gets more careless, allowing Mike to continually get the upper hand on him. Gradually, though, Mike starts to see that Raph is getting vicious. Splinter and the two Turtles notice it too, but not before Raph grabs one of Leo's swords and goes after a shocked Michaelangelo, who stumbles and loses his footing, leaving him defenseless against Raph's berserker rage. It looks bad…

… but just then Leo and Don grab Raph's arms, holding him back Leo yells at Raph "Are you nuts??! What are you trying to do, lill Mike??!! It's just sparring, for Gods sake… just practice!"

With a start, Raphael realizes what he's doing. He drops the sword like it's suddenly red hot, and begins to stammer out a halting apology. Splinter comes over to try to calm Raph down, but Raph's anger and shame overcome him -- he tears away and goes bounding off. Leo starts to follow, but Splinter stops him, saying "Raphael will return… let him deal with his anger first."

(Note: All this takes place in the Turtles' and Splinter's new home in the sewers, a new lair that they have fixed up since the battle with the Foot in the first movie.)

Later… Casey arrives at the TV station to pick April up for their date. April, who's been waiting outside for the last half hour, is quietly fuming… and not at all amused with Casey's half-hearted excuses for his lateness -- or by his car, a real rattletrap. They get in, and Casey tries to start the car -- it won't start. As Casey tries again, and April rolls her eyes, Charles Pennington comes out of the building. His eyes narrow a bit when he sees Casey with April, and then he smirks at Casey's malfunctioning wreck of a vehicle. "Need a lift, April?" he asks, gesturing at his brand new BMW. She hesitates… until Casey, with his usual thing layer of tact frayed even further by the bad start this date with April has gotten off to, says something like :Yeah, why don't you go ridin' with the four-eyed wonder." At this, April gets pissed, and she does just that, leaving Casey sitting in his car, giving it an occasional kick and curse.

A week or so later: April is doing a news story about a strange series of robberies, in which bank vaults were tunneled into and valuables extracted, with no trace of the culprits.

That's where the second file ends. I am not sure why I never finished it. -- PL

Anyhoo... I really wish Golden Harvest and New Line had let Steve Barron give the Turtles another crack without being sacred to death of making the films "too dark."

Oh, and how cool would it have been to have the Jim Henson puppet shop apply their talents to the Utroms? Admit it, folks, who DIDN'T want to see "Krang" on screen for the second movie? I actually had a dream about how nasty awesome he'd look! Ah, missed opportunities...

[CyberCubed]

These ideas were pretty bad. Nobody wants to see Baxter be an Utrom and the idea of the Turtles going into space to battle Triceratons would have audiences confused and in disbelief.

A Turtle theatrical movie should leave out space and aliens.

[oldmanwinters]

Here's some of Laird's general thoughts (clipped from the blog comments) on the movie that we actually got:

My recollection is that the Utrom connection WAS in the movie, and that there was a brief scene near the end of the movie when Prof. Perry lifts up his shirt and reveals the Utrom within. I think I heard that it was actually filmed, but I've never seen it, so can't verify that. I think it would have been very cool to have that in the second movie, as it could have set up a rollicking sci-fi adventure for the third live-action movie.

But instead, they went with stupid crap like the scene in the disco, and "Super Shredder" with his mysteriously mutating ARMOR (what the heck was up with THAT??!!!), among others, wasting a lot of time which could have been spent building a better story and setting up the third movie. -- PL

"Ninja Rap" is pretty retro-riffic nowadays, but even as a kid watching this film in threatres, I hated that Vanilla Ice scene. It just felt so out of place.

the "powers that be" saw the amazing success of the first TMNT movie, which was made on a relatively tiny budget, and they figured they could just do it again without really making much of an effort. There was such a disheartening dearth of comprehension among them about WHY that first movie had been so successful… to this day it pains me to remember. -- PL

Yeah, that fact that the sequel was a guaranteed cash-cow kinda makes you wonder what the studio was actually worried about with changing the whole tone and then recasting actors and getting a new director.

I think it's probably best not to spend too much time trying to figure out what the mutagen in the second movie is supposed to do, given the obvious lack of consistency -- epitomized by the fact that at the end of the movie it mutates inorganic, unliving matter (the Shredder's metal armor). SOOOO stupid. -- PL

That's a good point, the "secret" of the Ooze remains a mystery rolled within an enigma!

In my opinion, the second TMNT live-action movie was far more ridiculous than the third one.

Holy cow, now that's sayin' something!

Although I think I might actually agree with him, despite the fact that I actually like both of the sequels.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

These ideas were pretty bad. Nobody wants to see Baxter be an Utrom and the idea of the Turtles going into space to battle Triceratons would have audiences confused and in disbelief.

A Turtle theatrical movie should leave out space and aliens.

As Michelangleo might say, "Speak for yourself, dude!"

[rufus]

A love Triangle Between Casey,April and Charles sounds a bit odd and crazy but not as bad as Avi Arad's supposed wanting of a love triangle between Doc Ock,MJ and Spidey in Spiderman 2.

[pannoni1]

I feel that proposed outline could have done better, and not just for Vanilla Ice. I feel that Tokka & Rahzar were just too stupid, and the idea of the Triceratons/Utroms and Baxter & Mousers really would have flowed much better with the first movie, plus we could still use Shredder in the third movie go back in time to see the rise of the foot clan (A live action Legend of Koji), only to return to New York where the Super Shredder comes into play. It seemed like the producers just wanted to "play it safe" by simply following what was popular at the moment. Either way, Baxter Stockman beats the heck out of Professor Perry.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by pannoni1

Either way, Baxter Stockman beats the heck out of Professor Perry.

Aw, I liked Professor Perry in the movie. I think that David Warner is a pretty accomplished actor, even if he probably isn't too fond of being in a "Ninja Turtles" movie.

[Ninjinister]

Honestly, though, how many kids questioned Shredder's armor growth when they initially saw this in theaters? I know I didn't. I was more like "WOAHHHH! AWEEEEESOOOOME!"

[juxtapose519]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

These ideas were pretty bad. Nobody wants to see Baxter be an Utrom and the idea of the Turtles going into space to battle Triceratons would have audiences confused and in disbelief.

I'm pretty sure time travel is just as bad.

[Foot Soldier Clang]

I would have loved to see the mousers in place of Tokka and Rahzar. I'm indifferent to the Utrom idea, but I would have liked seeing returning characters from the first movie like Danny and Charles, and continuing the darker tone of the first movie.

...Man, now I hate the second movie even more.

[Spitfire]

The second film works perfectly fine for what it was. It crosses no weird lines like the first film did. It stuck with it's established tone and played like a live action version of the cartoon. People's distaste from it seems to mostly come from them expecting it to be like the comic and it still baffles me that 20 years later no ones figured out it wasn't trying to be like the first movie and most importantly anything like the comic. You can blame whoever for why it turned out the way it did but the only people you really have to blame are parents who were campaigning against violence in kids movies. Honestly with all the swearing and fighting the first turtles movie would never be rated PG today, or even a few years after it came out.

I don't hate his ideas but I can see why they never happened. That stuff would have been very very expensive to pull off back then. They didn't have cheap CGI so all the effects would have had to be practical. With the right team it would have looked amazing I'm sure but it'd be a lot cheaper to do it all now. It's impossible to say what audiences reactions to any of this would have been because honestly TMNT was so hot people would have accepted anything.

[TurtleTitan97]

I have too admit, I kinda like this idea than what we've ended up with. Not that I hate Secret of the Ooze, but this just sounds cooler too me.

[DrSpengler]

Outside of Henson's suit designs, I don't much care for "Secret of the Ooze", even with all of its camp.

Laird's ideas sound like a much better movie, though I fear his scope was way too ambitious, budget-wise, and that was probably a leading factor in getting what we got.

[oldmanwinters]

I really like how Laird wasn't afraid to make the Utroms out to be somewhat sinister creatures in the film, capable of theft and kidnapping kids and/or famous TV news reporters. In the comics, their race comes across as almost perfectly benevolent guardians of the universe (with some notable exceptions in the Volume 4/Tales Volume 2-era).

But in Laird's suggestions for the movie, it seems the Turtles would have simply made an alliance with them against a common enemy.

I seriously think an Utrom Baxter could have great potential! That's an awfully crooked alien plot to invent Mouser robots to steal money to fund the "Utrom Phone Home" project. I guess just running a big scientific company wasn't sufficient income for the little squids? And on that note... was it ever explained in the comics or the cartoon show just what kind of scientific projects the TCRI building worked on to maintain their public facade?

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

The second film works perfectly fine for what it was. It crosses no weird lines like the first film did. It stuck with it's established tone and played like a live action version of the cartoon. People's distaste from it seems to mostly come from them expecting it to be like the comic and it still baffles me that 20 years later no ones figured out it wasn't trying to be like the first movie and most importantly anything like the comic. You can blame whoever for why it turned out the way it did but the only people you really have to blame are parents who were campaigning against violence in kids movies. Honestly with all the swearing and fighting the first turtles movie would never be rated PG today, or even a few years after it came out.

I don't hate his ideas but I can see why they never happened. That stuff would have been very very expensive to pull off back then. They didn't have cheap CGI so all the effects would have had to be practical. With the right team it would have looked amazing I'm sure but it'd be a lot cheaper to do it all now. It's impossible to say what audiences reactions to any of this would have been because honestly TMNT was so hot people would have accepted anything.

As the kids would say, "This." SOTO was in a "damned you do/don't" position, as any sort of sequel would have to deal with the shadow and success of the first movie and the OT. Plus, with the heavy censoring in the 90's, it was a perfect storm. Despite its flaws (the weapons issue, no Casey, the Ninja Rap), SOTO had several interesting concepts in its favor (Tokka/Rahzar, Professor Perry, Paige Turco as April and arguably Super Shredder). I see it as more of an execution problem, and what came out was an enjoyable-but-campy/dopey movie.

(Personally speaking, camp doesn't bother me too much, as per years of viewing the OT and similar fare, and more recently, Lost In Space and the Irwin Allen TV canon. If I can handle a walking carrot and not laugh my brains off, I can handle just about anything. Heh.)

Utrom! Baxter is a good idea, but after witnessing the badass ness of Shredder and the Foot in the first movie, could Baxter and his robots compete with that in a direct sequel?* By the time the third one would debut, enough would have established enough to allow for a different change of pace and he would have been just fine in that.

The Triceratons would be good, except as CyberCubed pointed out, "how do you make their first arc not suck?" I love the characters, yet I found both the Mirage and 4Kids version chores to read and view. Not to mention, after the street fighting to immediately go into space?

As always, it's the "what ifs?" that truly fascinate. If nothing else, you have to admire Laird for his ambition. I can easily imagine such a film, today, especially after the 2003 series.

*Now that we know this, it does give obvious foreshadowing to Shredder in the 2003 series, doesn't it? I often wondered where the pre-existing character-as-Utrom concept came from, and until Laird discloses his notes, we at least have some inkling.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I really like how Laird wasn't afraid to make the Utroms out to be somewhat sinister creatures in the film, capable of theft and kidnapping kids and/or famous TV news reporters. In the comics, their race comes across as almost perfectly benevolent guardians of the universe (with some notable exceptions in the Volume 4/Tales Volume 2-era).

But in Laird's suggestions for the movie, it seems the Turtles would have simply made an alliance with them against a common enemy.

I seriously think an Utrom Baxter could have great potential! That's an awfully crooked alien plot to invent Mouser robots to steal money to fund the "Utrom Phone Home" project. I guess just running a big scientific company wasn't sufficient income for the little squids? And on that note... was it ever explained in the comics or the cartoon show just what kind of scientific projects the TCRI building worked on to maintain their public facade?

All I know for sure is that TCRI wasn't making toasters.

[Andrew NDB]

I think his ideas for TMNT II sound pretty good to me. Too bad they didn't stick to their guns.

[BoggleKng]

I remember I was hoping for a Krang when the 2nd movie came out. Maybe there is a future for other movies...

[gobo]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

Honestly, though, how many kids questioned Shredder's armor growth when they initially saw this in theaters?

I did. Didn't bug me nearly as much as Shredder being ejected from the club by a blown-out speaker though.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by gobo

I did. Didn't bug me nearly as much as Shredder being ejected from the club by a blown-out speaker though.

Second. I was fine with Super Shredder; the keytaur of doom, not so much.

If anyone else had this thought already, shoot me down, but if Karai was introduced sooner than 1992 and if we had the same tone as the first movie, think we could have had a form of "City At War" for the second movie back in the early 90's? The first movie handled all the Mirage plotting up to "Return to New York" well (or well enough), and we could tone down a few plot issues, here and there (the Rat King and the Gabrielle subplots). Karai vs. Tatsu over control of the remaining New York Foot with the Turtles in the middle, deciding their lives after Shredder's death? You'd watch it.

City At War did have a unique cinematic narrative or a fluid flow in its writing, which could have transferred well on-screen. (Then again, there is the 2003 animated version, which wasn't so insufferable in certain aspects.) If New Line had waited to film, we might had a possibility of that, but "got to strike while the iron is hot." A delay could have lost needed momentum to move a second movie forward. Probably could have gotten away with it in recent times, yet definitely couldn't do that in the early 90's. As much as I liked the latter two live-action films, "rushed" pops in my mind.

On the plus side, the more I'm thinking of Utrom Baxter, the more I like. Why couldn't we have that in the 2003 series? He certainly wouldn't have been out of place.

[ToTheNines]

Do you think they could have made the Mousers a believable threat in 1992 though? With the CGI we have now, I'd love to see them in this upcoming movie, but it probably wouldn't have worked back then.