Things change (and how the TMNT property is sort of like Batman)

[Vincent]

So, there was the comic, then there was the show, then there was the comic based on the show, then there was the movie trilogy, then a Japanese miniseries, then another show, then yet another show, then a comic based on that show, then another movie, and a movie based on two shows, and now there's a new comic and there's gonna be a new show and then a movie reboot.

So, as fans of whatever past versions we might be fans of, I think the most sensible thing we can do is take a deep breath and think of Batman.
Batman is a character who (and mythology that) has been reinterpreted and rebooted in various mediums and various tones over the years, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but when it doesn't work, it usually isn't because of tone, but because of the ideas just not being handled very well. And vice versa. The William Dozier live-action Batman television series (starring Adam West and Burt Ward) was a very comedic interpretation of Batman, and in a lot of ways, it worked. As did the much more recent animated series "Batman: The Brave and the Bold," which focused on team-up adventures with a similarly lighthearted and silly tone. But that doesn't negate the power of things like "Batman: The Animated Series" and "Batman Begins" (and its sequels), or how much the Schumacher movies sucked.

In the same way, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles property has been interpreted in both light and dark tones, sometimes both equally, and I think it's fair to say that when it works, it's not specifically because of attempted tone, but because of successful utilization of ideas. Personally, I'd say things like "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III", "The Next Mutation" and "Fast Forward" failed, not because of the choice of tone, but because the ideas just didn't work, or weren't used very well. I could tell that Next Mutation and Fast Forward wouldn't work just from hearing the pitch, because they tampered with essential aspects of what makes TMNT work in the first place. Next Mutation added an extra turtle, which is one of the first things one would think of when trying to make a list of typical ways in which a show could jump the shark. Fast Forward ripped the main setting of the show completely out of the concept in favor of a setting with much less dramatic potential, which is practically suicide for a show where the setting is basically one of the main characters (they could maybe have pulled it off for a a three episode arc, but giving it a full season and new theme song was just too much).

So that brings us to the new show. What do we know about it? That they're taking some ideas from different past interpretations, based on what they think will work for the kind of show they're trying to do, changing some things around a bit, adding some new stuff, et.c..
Are some of the changes obviously arbitrary? Well, yes, the increased number of toes comes to mind, but that's a design issue. What do we know about the actual story?

Well, there's a new alien species (or political group or something) called the Kraang, which seem to resemble the Utrom, except they're not as friendly, or in other terms they seem to resemble Krang, except not as singular. Does that decrease peril? Not necessarily. Does it mess up the dynamic of the four turtles? Not necessarily. Does it ruin the thematic implications of The Shredder? Well, not unless he turns out to be a Kraang, so most likely that's a no as well. Does it ruin the thematic implications of Krang? Um...when did Krang ever have thematic implications? Does it ruin the comedic potential? There is literally know way to know that yet. Personally, I'm okay with the idea of the Kraang. Hopefully they'll handle it well.

Another thing we know is they've made April younger. So we might ask ourselves, why? At first, I thought this seemed pretty arbitrary, but it makes sense from an audience perspective. The original TMNT comic wasn't for little kids (it was pretty much for any non-sensitive readers, which would translate to mid-teens and up), so April was given the mother role. She became "the adult". In reinterpreting TMNT for children, it makes sense for the people making the show to want to give young girls someone to relate to, and also to give kids in general the message that it's okay to hang out with kids of another gender, and that a strong girl doesn't have to be your mom, she can be your friend.

Which brings us to another change we know about: Don's crush on April. This is the kind of stuff I'm sure originated in fan fiction. I'm sure there are people going "Yay! Finally! This!", and I see where that's coming from. And I personally don't like it. Because it's a cliche. It's the old "these two have a shared interest, and they're different genders, SO THERE HAS TO BE ROMANTIC TENSION!". It's a cliche. It's Hollywood nonsense. Can't a guy just have a lot in common with a girl, and not have a crush on her? On top of that, dude's not even a mammal, and they're still pushing this cliche. They might end up handling it very well, and it might be totally sweet and adorable, but I just don't like the idea of it, because I think it sends a bad message to girls about "if a boy, even if he's a turtle, pays attention to you, he wants something from you other than friendship", and to boys about how they should be expected to relate to girls. It perpetuates stereotypes, and it's a pet peeve of mine. But it's not necessarily enough to ruin the show for me. If it's good, it's good, and it is what it is. It's just one of those things that bother me.

All in all, I don't see much here to go "this show's gonna suck!" over. I have some pet peeves and nitpicks about where they're going with some things, but I personally am going to just wait and see how it turns out.

So, anyone else got any observations on the things we know about this show so far?

[Cure]

Jesus, just start a blog.

Everything is already being discussed elsewhere.

[CyberCubed]

From the two clips shown I'd say this show looks to be very good. A light hearted but entertaining show is perfect especially following the 4kids series.

Even the CG animation looks much better than I thought it would. All my fears have subsided. We're in good hands with Nick.

[Mr.Turtle]

but the turtles r not that dark as batman...

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

but the turtles r not that dark as batman...

Some TMNT stories have been darker than some Batman stories. My point is it varies.

[Mr.Turtle]

but not that dark...?

[Candy Kappa]

Yes, the similarities between Batman and TMNT is both can go from Pulp to Space-Adventure and back

[Slade]

So, is this thread about how TMNT and Batman have similarities or that you don't like Don having the crush on April?

Though I do have to say, I don't think it started with fanfiction. Look at the first movie. All four of the turtles seemed to have a bit of a crush on April.

[Mr.Turtle]

^ even raph?

[Koi]

I want to hit you.

[Slade]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

^ even raph?

I mean I didn't just say ALL FOUR OF THE TURTLES seemed to have a bit of a crush on April. So, no, not Raph.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Raph_tha_Dude

So, is this thread about how TMNT and Batman have similarities or that you don't like Don having the crush on April?

It's just some thoughts on how a property can be reimagined in different ways, and the relationship between tone, ideas and execution, along with some personal opinions of some of the ideas we've been presented with. And yes, I do think that's very much an area in which TMNT is comparable to Batman, seeing as both are capable of working in various tonal interpretations, which isn't necessarily something that applies to all concepts.
Just trying to start a discussion.

[Mr.Turtle]

well i think the turtles r not that dark. at least they have brothers. batman has no family.

Originally Posted by Raph_tha_Dude

I mean I didn't just say ALL FOUR OF THE TURTLES seemed to have a bit of a crush on April. So, no, not Raph.

u kno that d be really complicated if raph does right? coz raph is just a turtle version of casey.

[Slade]

Originally Posted by Koi

I want to hit you.

Originally Posted by Vincent

It's just some thoughts on how a property can be reimagined in different ways, and the relationship between tone, ideas and execution, along with some personal opinions of some of the ideas we've been presented with. And yes, I do think that's very much an area in which TMNT is comparable to Batman, seeing as both are capable of working in various tonal interpretations, which isn't necessarily something that applies to all concepts.
Just trying to start a discussion.

I gotcha. Yeah I can see the comparisons in the two as far as tone and execution.

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

u kno that d be really complicated if raph does right? coz raph is just a turtle version of casey.

The hell????

[TurtleMaster4]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

well i think the turtles r not that dark. at least they have brothers. batman has no family.



u kno that d be really complicated if raph does right? coz raph is just a turtle version of casey.

seriously dude do you ever shut up?

[Mr.Turtle]

^ do u ever sleep?

[TurtleMaster4]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

^ do u ever sleep?

Ha! You call that a comeback!?!? I ain't no comeback master, but i know when one is bad! And that my friend, was beyond bad, it was terrible..... or worse!!!


And you know that funny thing is, you posted this more later in the night than i posted my comment! Oh Mr. Turtle! When will you learn?

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Turtle

well i think the turtles r not that dark. at least they have brothers. batman has no family.

I take it you haven't read the Mirage comics.
The attempted rape of Tang Shen? Yogi murdering Oroku Nagi? Splinter training the turtles for the sole purpose of murdering Nagi's brother? The turtles cutting enemies' arms off? I could go on. There's some dark stuff in there.

[Candy Kappa]

Now I'm picturing Yogi Bear in a murderous rampage

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Now I'm picturing Yogi Bear in a murderous rampage

Yogi Bear would be one of those things that's probably not like Batman.
Although I suspect I'd probably watch it.