TMNT supporting characters lament

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

As a lifelong Turtle fan, I am extremely happy to see the four Turtles back in action once more in many diffrent forms, and must say I totaly love the new comic and can't wait for the nick series to start next month.

That being said, there is one part of part of TMNT I really enjoyed from the old days of childhood OT watching... the supporting cast and guest mutants/anthros. Both mainstays like shredder's two bungling henchmen, and Guest stars like the punk frogs or mondo gecko. Even the Archie Based ones like Jaguar and Dreadmon were fun an interesting.

But now, it seems all these characters, long shunned through the 2k3 era, are being ignored for a potential revival, in favor of 'new' characters that feel like thier being made just so somone can say 'hey, we made a TMNT character'! Alopex feels like she could have been Ninjara, Old Hob Easily could've been called scratch or Hallocat. And Dogpound and Fishface feel like poor substitues for bebop and rocksteady. Why must This HUGE glut of old characters, neglected during the 4kids era, be tossed aside for lookalikes? New doesn't always make it better!

While I am thrilled with the amazing influx of new characters, I have to wonder if there is any possibility of seeing old favorites from the OT be reinvented for the new series? Characters like Bebop, Rocksteady, Mona Lisa, Mondo Gecko, and Ray Fillet seemed doomed to the dustbin of TMNT history, and it's depressing when new characters are tossed into roles that easily could have been filled by already existing ones.

I know the staff at IDW and Nick worked hard to create a lot of these new characters, but it makes me wonder if a lot of interesting characters that I enjoyed in my youth will simply be forgotten.

(Oh, and I mean this post as a toon/Archie thing, so PLEASE no Mirage stuff or debates in this thread, please? Mirage fans are awesome though, and the comic was cool too!)

[TurtleTitan97]

I disagree with what you said about Dogpound & Fishface as poor substitues for Bebop& Rocksteady. Since we haven't seen them in action yet, I'm not going to judge them. I think that if Nick does it right, these two can be just as good as Bebop & Rocksteady, maybe even better. Time will tell.

[CyberCubed]

You do realize all the characters you mention will probably be returning anyway?

They obviously want to start off with some new characters first before they bring back the old ones.

[miru]

Yes, I would like tom see these fellows back especially Ninjara

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

But now, it seems all these characters, long shunned through the 2k3 era, are being ignored for a potential revival, in favor of 'new' characters that feel like thier being made just so somone can say 'hey, we made a TMNT character'! Alopex feels like she could have been Ninjara, Old Hob Easily could've been called scratch or Hallocat. And Dogpound and Fishface feel like poor substitues for bebop and rocksteady. Why must This HUGE glut of old characters, neglected during the 4kids era, be tossed aside for lookalikes? New doesn't always make it better!

So, ignoring the fact we've already seen or had confirmations on a number of old faces in both the Nick and IDW series (Rat King, Fred-Wolf Metalhead, Karai, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, Fugitoid), I'm going to focus on just these four examples.

Alopex and Ninja share ... what? The fact they're both ninja fox ladies? Ignoring the fact that Alopex already avoids having a name a twelve-year-old would draft for his fan character, she also escapes the pitfall of having fans see her and immediately read her in terms of falling into/subverting the role of being Raph's girlfriend. Which is all Ninjara ever was, and all Alopex would be if she were an update on that character. They designed a new character specifically because they didn't want that baggage. I'm sure the idea hardly crossed their minds; the same gender and animal do not mean intentional homage.

Ditto Old Hob. Why attach whatever baggage an old toy-only character might carry when they wanted none of it?

And ditto ditto on Dogpound and Fishface, although we haven't seen how different they'll actually be from Bebop and Rocksteady. If the only similarity is their roles as villainous lackeys, then good on them for coming up with new characters. However, if they basically are a rhino and warthog in dog and fish clothing, I'll agree; it would be less distracting to have pulled in the original characters.

There are only a two real rules for when to and when not to use an old character in a new version of a franchise, as far as I'm concerned, and I feel they go like this:

Use an old character when:

1) You intentionally want to use their old baggage to set readers expectations or subvert them

and

2) When the role is so similar, a new character would be a distracting change for change's sake.

In all other cases, make it new. And so far, at least, I don't think we've seen anything fall into that pitfall yet.

(Now, if you want an example where I feel the use of an old character is actually unnecessary, see IDW Krang, who so far has shared nothing but superficial traits with either of his previous incarnations. Unless you believe the only core of the character was being an alien brain and a conqueror. But that may change.)

[Powder]

Originally Posted by miru

especially Ninjara

Pretty sure we get it by now.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

so PLEASE no Mirage stuff or debates in this thread

not a fan of the fish people?

[pannoni1]

IMO the supporting characters are what makes each series interesting since by now most of us know how each of the primary characters interact with each other. But I feel it would be best to have a mix of returning and new characters. At least with 4kids lots of characters came straight from Mirage, and there was a shout-out to Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady (and Turtles Forever of course). You need to understand the difference between "Tier 2" and "Tier 3" characters. "Tier 2" play a supporting but notable role in the story, and typically appear in multiple universes, such as Leatherhead, the Fugitoid, and General Traag. "Tier 3" tend to be canon foreigners and are only suitable for a typical universe (The Fast Forward characters would be out of place in most other versions). You need the balance of fan demand and practicality withing the plot to best execute supporting characters. I once read in an Archie issue that a fan would be cool if the Mutanimals got their own spin-off cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Baxter Stockman, Leatherhead and Rat King seem to be the "big 3" other than Shredder that appear in every universe. After Karai debuted she tends to appear in every universe too.

[Xav]

But it did seem like those three got ignored in the live action universe.

[BubbaShelby]

Copyright issues also prevent certain characters from showing up in other media. There could be three or four 'parties' involved in the legal 'ownership' of a character or you may need multiple rights holders to give their consent, and that can be too troublesome/tiresome/expensive at times and it's just easier for the current production team to create a new character to fill the role.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by BubbaShelby

Copyright issues also prevent certain characters from showing up in other media. There could be three or four 'parties' involved in the legal 'ownership' of a character or you may need multiple rights holders to give their consent, and that can be too troublesome/tiresome/expensive at times and it's just easier for the current production team to create a new character to fill the role.

Nick owns all the characters from the OT and toyline so that shouldn't be a problem.

[BubbaShelby]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nick owns all the characters from the OT and toyline so that shouldn't be a problem.

Ahh - very cool! I did not know that.

[CyberCubed]

Yes, the only characters they have to work out rights for is the crossover characters like Usagi Yojimbo, etc.