Are Karai and Krang new ever-present figures in TMNT?

[Cipher]

The Turtles, Splinter, April and Shredder have always been mainstays. We kind of forget, but Casey being a mainstay was a later addition; it took him a while to jump from Mirage into the public consciousness, only really cemented by his movie appearances and, more recently, his major role in the 4Kids series. (Adventures didn't see the need to add him at any point during its run, for example.)

Are Karai and Krang the latest two characters to become TMNT staples? Karai got a major increase in prominence from her portrayal in the 4Kids series and 2007 movie, and showed up very quickly in both the Nick cartoon and IDW series, which are both fairly high profile. (Even if, unggh, Shredder's relative or underling now seems to be her default role.)

Krang, meanwhile, despite being hugely iconic in the Fred Wolf cartoon, never made the jump into any other material until the Nick sale, due in part to Peter Laird's disdain for most of the Fred Wolf-original concepts. He's back in business as a major antagonist (or antagonists) in both Nick and IDW, though, and I think most people are expecting him to show up in, if not this movie, something down the line in the new film franchise.

So, do we expect to see Karai and Krang in as many versions as April and Shredder down the line? And are you okay with that?

[CyberCubed]

Yes. Even Bebop and Rocksteady have never broken into another series after the OT/Archie. Even in IDW they just made a brief cameo as humans but that was almost 2 years ago and we haven't seen them again.

You also neglect to mention that Baxter, Leatherhead and Rat King were the main TMNT staples who return in every series. So I do think Karai has now joined them.

As for Krang keep in mind that the Nick show still doesn't have THE Krang, just the Kraang who are evil Utroms. I've been hoping since 2011 that the "real" Krang shows up in the Nick show eventually. I actually wonder if the Kraang Shredder has captive will wind up becoming super intelligent after a mutagen experiment and become THE Krang.

[Galactus]

No.

I doubt Karai will be in the new movie. In fact at the moment I doubt we'll see her in this movie series (assuming there is one)

As for Krang? I'm guessing he's still in the new movie but the the Kraang that appears in the new Nickledeon show is an actual race that is close to Utroms albeit evil. I suppose Kraang Prime might be more like the character but I'm guessing with Roseanne voicing her that shell act unique.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Galactus

No.

I doubt Karai will be in the new movie. In fact at the moment I doubt we'll see her in this movie series (assuming there is one)

As for Krang? I'm guessing he's still in the new movie but the the Kraang that appears in the new Nickledeon show is an actual race that is close to Utroms albeit evil. I suppose Kraang Prime might be more like the character but I'm guessing with Roseanne voicing her that shell act unique.

Karai will most likely be in a sequel to the movie. She's become more prominent now than ever.

[Galactus]

^^^

Airforce Capt. Karen Schrader Codenemame: Karai ?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You also neglect to mention that Baxter, Leatherhead and Rat King were the main TMNT staples who return in every series. So I do think Karai has now joined them.

Ah, yeah. I forgot about Baxter.

Leatherhead and Rat King I wouldn't put in the same category though. They're heavily recurring characters throughout the franchise (I'd say ditto the Triceratons and maybe Fugitoid), but they're never major characters. They're always recurring, infrequently used allies or enemies, rather than the central figures Krang and Karai are when they show up.

Also, I'm not seeing the idea that the Kraang in the Nick cartoon aren't that universe's Krang. They ... they just are. Both current series have conflated Krang with the Utroms in some way, but that seems like a pretty natural step to take. I'd say future versions can take that in any direction they want -- you can still have Utroms and have Krang be a separate disembodied brain a la the original, you can make the Utroms into an entirely evil race as IDW did, you can scrap them for a substitute like the Kraang, or you can have them be mostly benevolent like their original incarnation and just have Krang be a rogue member (like, say, basically-Krang/not-Krang Ch'rell).

As for Karai, I really hope we see her restored to her original position in some future universe. I get why she's been relegated to Shredder's daughter or underling in everything outside of the 2007 film -- There's a desire to have Shredder be the main villain but still introduce Karai right away. So where can she go if not working for the Shredder? Hopefully someone down the line has the balls to actually off Shredder and introduce her afterward or have Shredder not be the leader of the entire Foot again.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think Nick will pass up introducing the supreme ruler of Dimension X Krang. The writers of the show are major original toon fanboys, they're probably saving him.

They had no problem holding over Casey for Season 2 for example. I expect more familiar faces next season.

Also IDW has all but confirmed in the letters pages that they like Rat King and Leatherhead and that we'll likely see them at some point. But that was a no brainer since they always appear.

[MikeandRaph87]

You know what Cipher,I logged on to post this very topic but I was going to ask it like this"how essential are Krang,Casey Jones ,and Karai?". They are not apart of the essential seven yet Karai became prominent following inclusion in the '03 cartoon. Krang is the most notable villain opposed to Shredder is no lobger blocked due to his non-Mirage origin. IDW is making much use of the biggest potential character and seems to have regain influence in the TMNT mythos. Casey Jones is the number one reoccuring ally even making it into the movies.It helps having Mirage origins for tbhis character. I like all three but don't want Karai around every incarnation. I would like to see different people at Shredder's side.While Krang I want to see not all the time but in different ways like as Shredder's partner-in-crime or his rival or something not connected at all. Casey every incarnation is fine but only if he is used sparringly like appearing only twice a season. That is when is at his best.

Cipher,Don't know if you agree with my assessment or adding Casey Jones in the mix,but great minds think alike as far as curiosity of the TMNT mythos.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Also, I'm not seeing the idea that the Kraang in the Nick cartoon aren't that universe's Krang. They ... they just are. Both current series have conflated Krang with the Utroms in some way, but that seems like a pretty natural step to take. I'd say future versions can take that in any direction they want -- you can still have Utroms and have Krang be a separate disembodied brain a la the original, you can make the Utroms into an entirely evil race as IDW did, you can scrap them for a substitute like the Kraang, or you can have them be mostly benevolent like their original incarnation and just have Krang be a rogue member (like, say, basically-Krang/not-Krang Ch'rell).

They look more like Utroms. They are both races that use splindly metallic bodies that uses false skins to pass off as human and use a company called TCRI as front for their operations with a teleportation device.

Krang is a single entity, an alien warlord that had his body taken away and had a bio-mechanical body built that was bulky and had hung about in a giant roving vehicle.

Even the guy from Nickleodeon that posted here said the main basis for the show was a stack of Vol. 1 Mirage comics and that the Utroms were the same just with a different name. Even the idea that they are seemingly evil seems to be based on the fact that the early Utrom appearances hinted their intentions being evil. Now that may change with a possible alliance with Shredder and Kraang Prime but for now I'd say Kraang's owe more to the Utroms than they do to Krang.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Krang is a single entity, an alien warlord that had his body taken away and had a bio-mechanical body built that was bulky and had hung about in a giant roving vehicle.

Right. Except when he's not, like in the Nickelodeon cartoon. I guess they're that universe's version of the Utrom as well, which works too.

Maybe they will single out one particular Kraang down the line. Maybe this Kraang Prime character will be it. Maybe they won't though, and whatever -- Krang's just a hive-mind race in this version instead of a single character.

I guess it gets down to what makes a character in the TMNT mythos. Plenty of characters vary wildly from incarnation to incarnation, sharing nothing other than an appearance and name. Rat King and Leatherhead's origins and allegiances are never consistent. April's job and relationship to the Turtles runs a huge gamut. The only things consistent about Splinter are that he's a mutant rat and the Turtles' master -- his origin and personality change in each version. Shredder is a bladed ninja who kills Master Yoshi, except when he doesn't, except when he's a worm mutant, except when he's a comical super villain living in an underground death machine, except when he's an alien warlord in a robot suit.

So what is Krang? He's 1) evil 2) a brain-looking thing in a robot suit and 3) called Krang. Everything else is subject to change. I'd say the Kraang in the Nick cartoon hit all the marks. I guess they hit all the marks for the Utroms to, but whattreyagonnado? As I said earlier, it's almost impossible not to conflate them somehow; the original Krang himself was Fred Wolf's adaptation of the Utrom designs from Mirage.

You know what Cipher,I logged on to post this very topic but I was going to ask it like this"how essential are Krang,Casey Jones ,and Karai?"

Ah, yeah. That's an interesting question.

I'm guessing that in the future they'll all be on about the same level as each other, as far as being essential to the mythos. I agree with the observation that there's an "essential seven" in the four Turtles, Splinter, Shredder and April, who we can expect to see in all or almost all versions and who play key roles in establishing the universes they appear in.

Casey Jones has, I think, been just one step below that since 1990, and what I was suggesting in this thread is that Karai and Krang have recently joined him on that level. They're characters who are big players whenever they do show up, who I think we can expect to show up in most future versions, but who it wouldn't be completely shocking or game-changing to leave out.

And on a rung below that, I'd put frequently recurring but more minor characters such as Baxter, Leatherhead, Rat King, and maybe one notch below them the Triceratons and Fugitoid. All staples, but also easily left out and not as essential to the universes they do appear in.

[CyberCubed]

The tiers go like this:

- Main characters: The Turtles, Splinter, April, Shredder and the Foot Clan

- Secondary major characters: Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, and either Krang, The Utroms or the Kraang.

- Important characters based on series, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun/Bishop, Dogpound/Fishface or Old Hob.

- Popularized mutants: Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, The Mutanimals

[LH]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The tiers go like this:

- Main characters: The Turtles, Splinter, April, Shredder and the Foot Clan

- Secondary major characters: Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, and either Krang, The Utroms or the Kraang.

- Important characters based on series, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun/Bishop, Dogpound/Fishface or Old Hob.

- Popularized mutants: Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, The Mutanimals

I concur with this.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Ah, yeah. That's an interesting question.

I'm guessing that in the future they'll all be on about the same level as each other, as far as being essential to the mythos. I agree with the observation that there's an "essential seven" in the four Turtles, Splinter, Shredder and April, who we can expect to see in all or almost all versions and who play key roles in establishing the universes they appear in.

Casey Jones has, I think, been just one step below that since 1990, and what I was suggesting in this thread is that Karai and Krang have recently joined him on that level. They're characters who are big players whenever they do show up, who I think we can expect to show up in most future versions, but who it wouldn't be completely shocking or game-changing to leave out.

And on a rung below that, I'd put frequently recurring but more minor characters such as Baxter, Leatherhead, Rat King, and maybe one notch below them the Triceratons and Fugitoid. All staples, but also easily left out and not as essential to the universe they do appear in.

I completely agree on that anaylzation only I would have not gone below three run g of tbe ladder. Rat King,Leatherhead,and Baxter Stockman are about the only other ones that could be considered. We are like-minded in that! This further earns Krang kudos since the character came outside the original comic as the only one to make this essential list.

I like all three of them,but I want them to remain as they are, the first to look at in the character pool and not neccessarily use. They have so much to bring to the table but can be abused if overused in the TMNT multiverse and make the three characters not as effective. Its hard to have to bring them in each time and make it work for the desired direction. Casey I feel is the most adaptable but only if not used as a major player. Maybe that is what helps Casey as you mentioned above. The other two are villains and are required to play big roles while Casey not neccessarily.

Also, while Krang can work alongside Shredder or against or have nothing to do with him at all,Karai's interest and effectiveness seems dependant on being at Shredder's side. I can't speak for others,but I feel Karai being the successor of the foot clan after Shredder and not being there with Shredder makes her a reoccuring presence along with the waivering loyalty that play off the fact that he was present at the same time or was for awhile. Do you agree or disagree with this assertion of her character's viability?

Bottomline,I like all three and want them as is,not making an "essential ten" but maintaining an "essential seven" with three reoccuring players that we get an occasional break from because they just don't work every time. Black and white comic fans and other media fans can be like-minded.This is exchange is proof of that!

[CyberCubed]

This thread really makes me realize how little some characters actually appear in the TMNT franchise.

Some characters only have a handful of appearances in a certain series and then never appear again. Although IDW is reviving tons of them like Slash, the Neutrinos, Angel and probably more.

[Metropoliskid41]

Its interesting the point that was raised about how drastic origins range from comic series to comic series, and/or show to show. I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find another property whose main characters' origins very so much, especially when you consider TMNT has been only been around for 30 years compared to someone like Superman who has been around for 75. Sure there are some changes and tweaks made to his origin each time he's "re-imagoned" or rebooted but his basic origin is the same in most incarnations since the 50's (minus the upcoming Man of Steel movie that is). So its very interesting that some of the essential characters such as Splinter & Shredder can have such varying origins and character portrayals in each new portrayal. I guess some of that has to somewhat be attributed to the fact that perhaps the most popular or at least the incarnation that gained the most attention from new fans was not the original source, but instead the FW cartoon which was considerably different than the original. You don't have to look real hard on here to find the clash between the 2 schools of thought on the Mirage vs FW Cartoon friction.

[The Sewer Lord]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I actually wonder if the Kraang Shredder has captive will wind up becoming super intelligent after a mutagen experiment and become THE Krang.

That would be interesting.

[miru]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The tiers go like this:

- Main characters: The Turtles, Splinter, April, Shredder and the Foot Clan

- Secondary major characters: Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, and either Krang, The Utroms or the Kraang.

- Important characters based on series, Bebop/Rocksteady, Hun/Bishop, Venus Di Milo/Dragonlord, Dogpound/Fishface or Old Hob.

- Popularized mutants: Slash, Rahzar/Tokka, Mona Lisa, Amraggon, The Mutanimals

You forgot to put Venus Di Milo and Mona Lisa in the popularized mutants section.

[Toby Barrett]

Only in your crazy little world Miru.

[Coola Yagami]

Kinda hope there's no THE Krang in this series to shut everybody up. The closest we get is Kraang Prime and it will be a completely different character. It just sounds stupid to have 2 main Kraang characters. It takes away from Kraang Prime when they obviously have big plans for the character. Likewise for Bebop and Rocksteady when they already have Dogpound and Fishface,

[miru]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Kinda hope there's no THE Krang in this series to shut everybody up. The closest we get is Kraang Prime and it will be a completely different character. It just sounds stupid to have 2 main Kraang characters. It takes away from Kraang Prime when they obviously have big plans for the character. Likewise for Bebop and Rocksteady when they already have Dogpound and Fishface,

For all we know Kraang Prime could die immediately after it is introduced.