What would the OT have been like if it was more plot-driven?

*CyberCubed* · 06-09-2013, 02:04 PM

As much as I like the original cartoon for what it was, (a self aware comedy series with some action), what would have been like if it was more plot-driven?

Would they Turtles have stopped Shredder/Krang much earlier on, by the end of Season 2? Would each season have a new major villain coming out of nowhere to threaten the Turtles? Would they simply be more recurring mutants?

Mondo_Gecko · 06-09-2013, 03:48 PM

I've often thought of this, especially as I've gotten older and become more interested in story arcs and serialized plots, opposed to stand alone episodes.

Shredder and Krang would still be a force and instead of each episode finding ways to power the Technodrome or defeating the turtles, there would be more of an emphasis on either a season arc or long term arc. Because of the arc structure, Shredder and Krang would be more competent.

Shredder and Krang would have been just one of many villains. Characters such as the Anti-Turtle Squad would have been recurring, and a threat to not only the turtles but all the mutants. It was a great idea that was not properly executed.

World building would be key. Mutants such as the Punk Frogs, Mondo Gecko, Mona Lisa and Muckman would not only be be recurring but also expanded on. One of the greatest losses, is not capitalizing on these characters and worlds such as the sewer world or the Okefenokee swamps. What else do the Frogs do in the swamps? Who are their other adversaries or allies? How often do the Turtles and Splinter see Mondo Gecko, Muckman or Mona Lisa? Do they run into Ray in the sewers? Characters would disappear as soon as they were introduced, never to be seen again. Dimension X would have been expanded on also. What are the Rock Soldiers origin? Who is Gen. Tragg? The war between Krang and the Neutrinos etc

Type 97 Chi-ha · 06-09-2013, 05:08 PM

I imagine it would be akin to the Mirage comic, where Shredder was (supposedly) destroyed in the first issue. Of course, when you have a bunch of half-hour episodes that you don't know how the audience is going to react to (the Turtles were once a novelty, after all), you cannot be too risky, or too conventional either.

Nameless · 06-09-2013, 10:58 PM

It would be more important to watch them in order...

haha seriously though i think that was one of the best things about the show as a kid was the fact that i could miss an episode for whatever reason and was able to just keep watching the show without even knowing i missed an episode.

that said as an adult with access to all the episodes if it was plot driven i would probably enjoy the show even more cause i love when things in one episode tie into other episodes.

The Sewer Lord · 06-09-2013, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo_Gecko

I've often thought of this, especially as I've gotten older and become more interested in story arcs and serialized plots, opposed to stand alone episodes.

Shredder and Krang would still be a force and instead of each episode finding ways to power the Technodrome or defeating the turtles, there would be more of an emphasis on either a season arc or long term arc. Because of the arc structure, Shredder and Krang would be more competent.

Shredder and Krang would have been just one of many villains. Characters such as the Anti-Turtle Squad would have been recurring, and a threat to not only the turtles but all the mutants. It was a great idea that was not properly executed.

World building would be key. Mutants such as the Punk Frogs, Mondo Gecko, Mona Lisa and Muckman would not only be be recurring but also expanded on. One of the greatest losses, is not capitalizing on these characters and worlds such as the sewer world or the Okefenokee swamps. What else do the Frogs do in the swamps? Who are their other adversaries or allies? How often do the Turtles and Splinter see Mondo Gecko, Muckman or Mona Lisa? Do they run into Ray in the sewers? Characters would disappear as soon as they were introduced, never to be seen again. Dimension X would have been expanded on also. What are the Rock Soldiers origin? Who is Gen. Tragg? The war between Krang and the Neutrinos etc

It would have been awesome if they did all that.

ryukenden · 06-10-2013, 09:03 AM

I most certainly would have found the OT a lot more enjoyable than ever. Even as a kid, I did tend to wonder why the characters seem to forget what they did in an earlier episode. I even wondered about those that were mutated would have any side effects such as Vernon and Irma being turned into rats, April into a fish and even Mikey into a human.

~~ABrown~~ · 06-10-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

As much as I like the original cartoon for what it was, (a self aware comedy series with some action), what would have been like if it was more plot-driven? Would they Turtles have stopped Shredder/Krang much earlier on, by the end of Season 2? Would each season have a new major villain coming out of nowhere to threaten the Turtles? Would they simply be more recurring mutants?

Well, to be honest, I think the show would've been what it was during the red sky seasons. And I probably would be rewatching the dvds of the original cartoon a lot more that I am right now.

DonatelloNinja82 · 06-10-2013, 07:05 PM

There would be more character development, too. Don't get me wrong, they had their personalities and were developed as characters, but with story arcs there would be more room for deepening of the characters.

*pannoni1* · 06-10-2013, 07:59 PM

Of course I would, given the many reasons that I didn't like the 4kids, from the lack of humor, variety, and inferior music. That said, I still enjoyed the OT when new since younger children don't care as much about episodic arcs, with some exceptions and didn't care if the next show being aired was new or a rerun. But many prime time sitcoms of the era had a similar premise, with most shows episodic with just a couple tentpole episodes per season. Its still enjoyable to watch after you draw a logical timeline based upon whats given, and this is one of the reasons why I like this board!

*pferreira* · 06-13-2013, 08:18 AM

Two things would have perfected the OT series for me: more continuity between episodes in that characters remember and make direct reference to previous episodes. I also wished they'd taken more advantage of the finales and had the finales effect what happened in the next season more.

shredderhead · 06-13-2013, 10:04 AM

I think that it´s normal the way the show went.. It´s the normal kids´series structure.. Most of the shows I have seen while I was a kid had that kind of structure, the villain coming up with a different plane in which episode to finish or to catch the good guys.. The clumsy helpers of the villain and the funny way that the turtles get rid of them..
But if the show followed a restricted story line I agree that it would have much more deeper profile.. And I think that kind of story is more interesting for more grown up people like teenagers and adults.. Like the next TMNT series meant to be, in my opinion

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 06-18-2013, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

I imagine it would be akin to the Mirage comic, where Shredder was (supposedly) destroyed in the first issue. Of course, when you have a bunch of half-hour episodes that you don't know how the audience is going to react to (the Turtles were once a novelty, after all), you cannot be too risky, or too conventional either.

Maybe Shredder coul've moved to Japan for a while instead.

Type 97 Chi-ha · 06-19-2013, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Maybe Shredder coul've moved to Japan for a while instead.

Ironically in the Mirage series, the Foot Clan would become upset with Oroku Saki because he had become too independent from his Japanese masters.

Vi11AiN6 · 06-19-2013, 05:50 AM

Believe this is what the IDW series is doing (and very well I may add).
Taking OT characters and plot devices and using the in an ongoing continuity.
Look at the series so far we've seen:
The Neutrinos
Dimension X
Krang
The development of the Technodrome
Rocksteady and Bebop (in human form)
Slash
Batxter Stockman
Mutant Flyborgs
Etc........

In the Red Skies Era the show did start to have continuity just not with a lot of earlier characters.

*Refractive Reflections* · 06-22-2013, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryukenden

I most certainly would have found the OT a lot more enjoyable than ever. Even as a kid, I did tend to wonder why the characters seem to forget what they did in an earlier episode.

While the OT plots may have not been continuous arcs (excluding in the early Season 2, season finale of Season 3, and Red Sky seasons). The characters did remember stuff they did in the past:

-The episodes that involved Baxter Stockman (except that "Landlord of the Flies" episode in Season 5).
- Kala and Michelangelo remembering their flirtatious relationship in "Teenagers from Dimension X" and "The Grybyx"; but no clue as to why they forget about it season 4 ("The Dimension X Story") and season 7 ("Attack of the Neutrinos")
- In the "Missing Map" episode (Season 3), they talk about their previous encounter with Lotus ("Beware of the Lotus"); in "Zach and the Alien Invaders" the TMNT remember Zach's brother Walt
-In the "Big Blow Out" (Season 3), Shredder says their arrival back at Dimension X could have been worse if they went to Dimension Z ("Mister Ogg Goes To Town")
-In "Polly Wanna Pizza" (Season 6), Ditto the parrot eats Raphael's Green Avenger costume ("Raphael Vs The Volcano" Season 5)
-In "Mr Nice Guy" (Season 6), the TMNT want to change Raphael's personality and then Donatello reminds them on what happened to Leonardo ("Leonardo Lightens Up" Season 4)
-In "Wrath of the Rat King" (Season 8 ), they remember how wacky he used to be in the previous seasons.
- In "TurtleManiac" (Season 4) the collector wants everything from TMNT, and even has a statue of Mr. Ogg (Season 3)
- In "Return of the Turtleoid" (Season 6), Raphael complains about Kerma's "small problem" term since Kerma called the dragon at his home world a "small problem" ("Planet of the Turtleoids" Season 5)
- When the TMNT remember prominent villains like Leatherhead or Slash. Even in "Donatello Trashes Slash" (Season 6), there's a flashback (to "Slash - The Evil Turtle From Dimension X" Season 4) and breaking the 4th wall scene when Michelangelo remembers the episode number!
- In "Shredder Triumphant!" (Season 7), when Raphael's brothers start panicking over the Technodrome arriving in the city, he tells them to relax since they've done it before. All of the say, "We break into the Technodrome, fight our way past the Foot Soldiers, We grab the power device, and escape with it."
-By Season 6 and 7, it seemed like even Krang and Shredder were tired of their failed plots and broke the 4th wall constantly mentioning about it. One prominent example was "Rock Around The Block" (Season 6) when Krang says they need to "develop a plot" for the show.

So yes, the OT characters did remember past events, its just that the format of the OT show wasn't set up for that since the OT was shown in syndication. Furthermore, there was no internet to keep track of the order of these shows unlike with 2K3 and 2012 TMNT, so it would have been immensely frustrating to keep track of the order, especially with limited accessibility and resources as children.

One has to keep the OT in the right historical perspective. True, it would have been nice if there were continuous arcs, but for the time, technology, and airing schedule it wasn't practical.

*CyberCubed* · 06-23-2013, 07:28 PM

There was a lot of continuity in the OT if you paid attention to it. The difference is there were no real ongoing story arcs besides a few certain places in the show.

*Prowler* · 06-25-2013, 04:47 AM

For one thing, the Turtles wouldn't have fought Shredder and Krang for 80% of the series.

I also believe that characters such as Casey Jones, The Rat King, Leatherhead, etc. would have made more appearances and play relevant roles in story arcs instead of just aiding/fighting the Turtles in a random episode once in a while.

06-09-2013, 02:04 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,700	What would the OT have been like if it was more plot-driven? As much as I like the original cartoon for what it was, (a self aware comedy series with some action), what would have been like if it was more plot-driven? Would they Turtles have stopped Shredder/Krang much earlier on, by the end of Season 2? Would each season have a new major villain coming out of nowhere to threaten the Turtles? Would they simply be more recurring mutants?

06-09-2013, 03:48 PM	#2
Mondo_Gecko Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 670	I've often thought of this, especially as I've gotten older and become more interested in story arcs and serialized plots, opposed to stand alone episodes. Shredder and Krang would still be a force and instead of each episode finding ways to power the Technodrome or defeating the turtles, there would be more of an emphasis on either a season arc or long term arc. Because of the arc structure, Shredder and Krang would be more competent. Shredder and Krang would have been just one of many villains. Characters such as the Anti-Turtle Squad would have been recurring, and a threat to not only the turtles but all the mutants. It was a great idea that was not properly executed. World building would be key. Mutants such as the Punk Frogs, Mondo Gecko, Mona Lisa and Muckman would not only be be recurring but also expanded on. One of the greatest losses, is not capitalizing on these characters and worlds such as the sewer world or the Okefenokee swamps. What else do the Frogs do in the swamps? Who are their other adversaries or allies? How often do the Turtles and Splinter see Mondo Gecko, Muckman or Mona Lisa? Do they run into Ray in the sewers? Characters would disappear as soon as they were introduced, never to be seen again. Dimension X would have been expanded on also. What are the Rock Soldiers origin? Who is Gen. Tragg? The war between Krang and the Neutrinos etc Last edited by Mondo_Gecko; 06-09-2013 at 03:54 PM.

06-09-2013, 10:58 PM	#4
Nameless Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,042	It would be more important to watch them in order... haha seriously though i think that was one of the best things about the show as a kid was the fact that i could miss an episode for whatever reason and was able to just keep watching the show without even knowing i missed an episode. that said as an adult with access to all the episodes if it was plot driven i would probably enjoy the show even more cause i love when things in one episode tie into other episodes. __________________ "Close. But close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.... Knew i should have brought those grenades." My Collection:http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...09#post1103509

06-10-2013, 07:05 PM	#8
DonatelloNinja82 Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,345	There would be more character development, too. Don't get me wrong, they had their personalities and were developed as characters, but with story arcs there would be more room for deepening of the characters. __________________ Michelangelo: Holy guacamole with hot sauce and jalapenos!

06-10-2013, 07:59 PM	#9
pannoni1 Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: USA Posts: 3,447	Of course I would, given the many reasons that I didn't like the 4kids, from the lack of humor, variety, and inferior music. That said, I still enjoyed the OT when new since younger children don't care as much about episodic arcs, with some exceptions and didn't care if the next show being aired was new or a rerun. But many prime time sitcoms of the era had a similar premise, with most shows episodic with just a couple tentpole episodes per season. Its still enjoyable to watch after you draw a logical timeline based upon whats given, and this is one of the reasons why I like this board! __________________ http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...d.php?t=37065- MY WANT LIST TMNT FAN CLUB LINK: http://sot.ag/gCjK/ 30 years of Turtle Power!

06-09-2013, 05:08 PM	#3
Type 97 Chi-ha Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brookfield, IL Posts: 1,333	I imagine it would be akin to the Mirage comic, where Shredder was (supposedly) destroyed in the first issue. Of course, when you have a bunch of half-hour episodes that you don't know how the audience is going to react to (the Turtles were once a novelty, after all), you cannot be too risky, or too conventional either.

06-10-2013, 09:03 AM	#6
ryukenden Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 383	I most certainly would have found the OT a lot more enjoyable than ever. Even as a kid, I did tend to wonder why the characters seem to forget what they did in an earlier episode. I even wondered about those that were mutated would have any side effects such as Vernon and Irma being turned into rats, April into a fish and even Mikey into a human.

06-13-2013, 08:18 AM	#10
pferreira Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,514	Two things would have perfected the OT series for me: more continuity between episodes in that characters remember and make direct reference to previous episodes. I also wished they'd taken more advantage of the finales and had the finales effect what happened in the next season more.

06-13-2013, 10:04 AM	#11
shredderhead Random Punk Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Portugal Posts: 32	I think that it´s normal the way the show went.. It´s the normal kids´series structure.. Most of the shows I have seen while I was a kid had that kind of structure, the villain coming up with a different plane in which episode to finish or to catch the good guys.. The clumsy helpers of the villain and the funny way that the turtles get rid of them.. But if the show followed a restricted story line I agree that it would have much more deeper profile.. And I think that kind of story is more interesting for more grown up people like teenagers and adults.. Like the next TMNT series meant to be, in my opinion

06-19-2013, 05:50 AM	#14
Vi11AiN6 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 198	Believe this is what the IDW series is doing (and very well I may add). Taking OT characters and plot devices and using the in an ongoing continuity. Look at the series so far we've seen: The Neutrinos Dimension X Krang The development of the Technodrome Rocksteady and Bebop (in human form) Slash Batxter Stockman Mutant Flyborgs Etc........ In the Red Skies Era the show did start to have continuity just not with a lot of earlier characters.

06-23-2013, 07:28 PM	#16
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,700	There was a lot of continuity in the OT if you paid attention to it. The difference is there were no real ongoing story arcs besides a few certain places in the show.

06-25-2013, 04:47 AM	#17
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,940	For one thing, the Turtles wouldn't have fought Shredder and Krang for 80% of the series. I also believe that characters such as Casey Jones, The Rat King, Leatherhead, etc. would have made more appearances and play relevant roles in story arcs instead of just aiding/fighting the Turtles in a random episode once in a while.