I like the Nick toon so far, but...

MothraLeo · 07-17-2013, 05:03 PM

I am an old skool fan. While I first got into the TMNT because of the 80's cartoon, I quickly discovered how awesome the Mirage comics were. I got into it just before "Sons of the Silent Age" came out (issue 22 or so). But I quickly realized, even at that young age, the effect the cartoon had on the comics. When I picked up the Return to New York series I read a note from Eastman or Laird that basically said they had to nerf the comics because they didn't want little kids who watched the cartoon reading the comic and freaking out over killings and swearing and such. I immediately realized how detrimental the cartoon was to my beloved comics, and have since despised that cartoon.

I only discovered the 2k3 cartoon last fall, and absolutely fell in love with it, for reasons you can prolly guess (though I stopped watching after 3 episodes of Flash Forward). Then after discovering Laird's blog I was pleased to find out that he has very similar feelings about the whole thing, and that the 2k3 series was his attempt to right the ship and give the Turtles a more appropriate run. Despite the cringe-worthy seasons at the end, the 2k3 series and Turtles Forever are the perfect send off of the co-creator. Turtles Forever is the PERFECT TMNT movie and cross-over, giving PL a chance to poke some fun at the 80's toon that basically derailed one of the best comics of all time.

So my point here is that while I am enjoying the Nick toon so far (they have some killer shows! Korra and Avatar are amazing) I can tell that the legacy is being tarnished a bit here. IDW comics are pretty awesome, as well, but it too has brought back some lame stuff from the 80's.

Thankfully it is not totally kid-oriented, but it is still a bit sad that we are bringing back some of the lame-ness from the past, and now that I see Slash is coming back, I am afraid that this toon will be going downhill very soon.

*Luckyday* · 07-17-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

I am an old skool fan. While I first got into the TMNT because of the 80's cartoon, I quickly discovered how awesome the Mirage comics were. I got into it just before "Sons of the Silent Age" came out (issue 22 or so). But I quickly realized, even at that young age, the effect the cartoon had on the comics. When I picked up the Return to New York series I read a note from Eastman or Laird that basically said they had to nerf the comics because they didn't want little kids who watched the cartoon reading the comic and freaking out over killings and swearing and such. I immediately realized how detrimental the cartoon was to my beloved comics, and have since despised that cartoon.

I only discovered the 2k3 cartoon last fall, and absolutely fell in love with it, for reasons you can prolly guess (though I stopped watching after 3 episodes of Flash Forward). Then after discovering Laird's blog I was pleased to find out that he has very similar feelings about the whole thing, and that the 2k3 series was his attempt to right the ship and give the Turtles a more appropriate run. Despite the cringe-worthy seasons at the end, the 2k3 series and Turtles Forever are the perfect send off of the co-creator. Turtles Forever is the PERFECT TMNT movie and cross-over, giving PL a chance to poke some fun at the 80's toon that basically derailed one of the best comics of all time.

So my point here is that while I am enjoying the Nick toon so far (they have some killer shows! Korra and Avatar are amazing) I can tell that the legacy is being tarnished a bit here. IDW comics are pretty awesome, as well, but it too has brought back some lame stuff from the 80's.

Thankfully it is not totally kid-oriented, but it is still a bit sad that we are bringing back some of the lame-ness from the past, and now that I see Slash is coming back, I am afraid that this toon will be going downhill very soon.

What points do you feel that the current show has failed do well?

*Powder* · 07-17-2013, 05:08 PM

Who cares? Your opinions aren't facts. Just because certain things aren't for you doesn't mean they're a blemish on the 'legacy'.

*Bauer536* · 07-17-2013, 05:09 PM

I don't see it going downhill. While it is something that we always fear when another season comes on television, I'm still excited. While there were some lame factors in the OT, I think Nieli and Nickelodeon are doing their best to make the lame more appealing. Somehow, everything that was once lame are turned into something new and cool. OT Shredder is nothing compared to 2k12 Shredder.

Leatherhead is not a villain that dresses up like a gangster and leans more toward the Mirage Leatherhead. It's basically a show that incorporates the good, the bad, and the ugly into something refreshing, entertaining, and just so darn good.

*The Stryker* · 07-17-2013, 05:10 PM

The new show existing saved the Ninja Turtle franchise from dying a slow and painful death.

So I don't know about tarnishing any legacies.

**Jester** · 07-17-2013, 05:16 PM

Andrew, why you make a 2nd account?

*Cowabunga Carl* · 07-17-2013, 05:21 PM

We all have opinions, but to state them like fact and tell others who may like something that it is tarnishing the legacy isn't the way to make friends.

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, not everyone will like everything about TMNT. Just cause there are new versions or takes on them doesn't take away from what you like. If you prefer Mirage and 2k3 nothing is stopping you from rereading or watching those. 2k12 is breathing life back into the franchise that we all love.

We have to be realistic when Nick bought the TMNT the franchise was dying a slow death. Liard could not capture the magic that catapulted the TMNT into the spot light by doing it his way. I am grateful that he and Kevin Eastmen made the TMNT but just cause they created it didn't mean they always knew what was best for it.

*CyberCubed* · 07-17-2013, 05:38 PM

Where the hell did this guy get the impression the Mirage comics were "nerfed" because of the cartoon? WTF?

*JTH* · 07-17-2013, 05:46 PM

As a fan of this franchise \/ \/ \/, I hear this bastardized/tarnished legacy thing a lot.

Spoiler:

And far too often I hear the argument that is basically translated to, "It's not meant for me, so it sucks."

When people just aren't looking at the bigger picture, sometimes things just need to be changed to bring in a new audience. There are many 80s shows that are basically dead and disappeared, that example I showed despite detest from some of it's original fan base is now more popular than it's ever been.

Sometimes changes must be made, even if they're changes some don't like. It's about bringing in new fans; cause without new fans, franchises die.

*CyberCubed* · 07-17-2013, 05:50 PM

I'd still like to know where the hell this guy got the impression the Mirage comics were kiddified because of the cartoon.

That right there should tell you this guy has no clue what he's talking about.

*JTH* · 07-17-2013, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'd still like to know where the hell this guy got the impression the Mirage comics were kiddified because of the cartoon.

That right there should tell you this guy has no clue what he's talking about.

I get where you're coming from, because by that logic, if Laird and Eastman were worried about kids who watched the cartoon to see the violence, the first live action movie would never have been made.

*CyberCubed* · 07-17-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jth

I get where you're coming from, because by that logic, if Laird and Eastman were worried about kids who watched the cartoon to see the violence, the first live action movie would never have been made.

And the fact that the Mirage comics were never toned down.

Konchadunga · 07-17-2013, 06:18 PM

That you despise a cartoon you used to love because of the effect it had on the source, already isn't fair, because the cartoon's creators never intended any malice; meanwhile the Mirage series creators could have prevented that at many turns. They could have refused to license the cartoon. They could have gotten more proactive in directing the cartoon to ensure it was more loyal to the Mirage series. They could have steadfastly refused to nerf the Mirage series; cartoon recruits be damned.

However, as has been said, I don't see any evidence that the Mirage series was nerfed, anyway. It certainly didn't stay as "dark" as its first issue a lot of the time, but then, that issue was originally a one-off with a ridiculous concept stuck in a typical Miller-esque story, because surely it wouldn't sell anyway, so why not? That it did necessitated Eastman and Laird giving the series more personality, more variety, and more ethical depth, because one long cycle of vengeance and killing would make for a pretty dull series. They still did plenty of mature stories, such as "The Path."

I want to see a copy of this note from Eastman and Laird, where they said they had to nerf it, but even if it really exists and they did go ahead and nerf it, that's bull. They didn't have to; if they did it that's because they wanted more money.

*TurtleTitan97* · 07-17-2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

Thankfully it is not totally kid-oriented, but it is still a bit sad that we are bringing back some of the lame-ness from the past, and now that I see Slash is coming back, I am afraid that this toon will be going downhill very soon.

Say what? How the heck does bringing Slash into this series a sign that this show will go downhill? Slash is a pretty awesome character. At least he doesn't look anything similar to this abomination:

Spoiler:

Try and have alittle faith in the writers who work on this show, they've been doing a great job, IMO.

*CyberCubed* · 07-17-2013, 06:39 PM

The thread starter is delusional. He hates a cartoon based on something false that never happened and he blames those characters for something that never happened?

Konchadunga · 07-17-2013, 07:06 PM

If you hate the Fred Wolf series, then I don't expect you to like this show in the long run, although I guess it depends to some extent on why you hate it. If it's the slaptsticky, junk throwing sort of fight scenes from FW that you hated, then you can be reasonably sure you won't see such things here. If you expect a situation where Shredder has a sympathetic side and Splinter has some fault of his own in the feud, then you may well be disappointed. If you expect a lot of blood, well, don't. Finally, though I resent this myself, you probably shouldn't expect an incredibly strong story arc that always satisfies your questions and then poses new ones right away, though to be fair, Mirage also had plenty of filler stories.

Warboss74 · 07-17-2013, 07:20 PM

If you're going to blame the cartoon for any negative effect on the comic, it would make more sense to blame it for pulling Kevin and Peter away from the comics for 3 years after Return to New York. Although, I doubt we get City at War without how hectic the franchise got.

*NinjaPug* · 07-17-2013, 07:31 PM

So, you liked the 87 toon enough to check out the source material? After reading that you start to hate the thing that got you interested in the property to begin with?

I assume you realize that without the 87 toon you probably would've never heard of the franchise.

*CyberCubed* · 07-17-2013, 07:48 PM

I love how people have double standards. TMNT can't have a kids cartoon, yet Batman/Spiderman, etc. can all have kids cartoons, movies aimed at adults, and comic books all at the same time and nobody cares.

Yet if TMNT has a kids cartoon people think its something different? WTF>

Konchadunga · 07-17-2013, 07:53 PM

Almost everything can have different incarnations for different people. Whether all incarnations will be liked is the point of contention. But though there's plenty of good reasons for a Mirage fan to hate the Fred Wolf show, I don't think that MothraLeo's is one of them.

07-17-2013, 05:03 PM	#1
MothraLeo Random Punk Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 42	I like the Nick toon so far, but... I am an old skool fan. While I first got into the TMNT because of the 80's cartoon, I quickly discovered how awesome the Mirage comics were. I got into it just before "Sons of the Silent Age" came out (issue 22 or so). But I quickly realized, even at that young age, the effect the cartoon had on the comics. When I picked up the Return to New York series I read a note from Eastman or Laird that basically said they had to nerf the comics because they didn't want little kids who watched the cartoon reading the comic and freaking out over killings and swearing and such. I immediately realized how detrimental the cartoon was to my beloved comics, and have since despised that cartoon. I only discovered the 2k3 cartoon last fall, and absolutely fell in love with it, for reasons you can prolly guess (though I stopped watching after 3 episodes of Flash Forward). Then after discovering Laird's blog I was pleased to find out that he has very similar feelings about the whole thing, and that the 2k3 series was his attempt to right the ship and give the Turtles a more appropriate run. Despite the cringe-worthy seasons at the end, the 2k3 series and Turtles Forever are the perfect send off of the co-creator. Turtles Forever is the PERFECT TMNT movie and cross-over, giving PL a chance to poke some fun at the 80's toon that basically derailed one of the best comics of all time. So my point here is that while I am enjoying the Nick toon so far (they have some killer shows! Korra and Avatar are amazing) I can tell that the legacy is being tarnished a bit here. IDW comics are pretty awesome, as well, but it too has brought back some lame stuff from the 80's. Thankfully it is not totally kid-oriented, but it is still a bit sad that we are bringing back some of the lame-ness from the past, and now that I see Slash is coming back, I am afraid that this toon will be going downhill very soon.

07-17-2013, 05:10 PM	#5
The Stryker Stupid Rich Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Room 237 Posts: 11,152	The new show existing saved the Ninja Turtle franchise from dying a slow and painful death. So I don't know about tarnishing any legacies. __________________ @~<3 Mom~@

07-17-2013, 05:16 PM	#6
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	Andrew, why you make a 2nd account? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

07-17-2013, 06:18 PM	#13
Konchadunga Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 912	That you despise a cartoon you used to love because of the effect it had on the source, already isn't fair, because the cartoon's creators never intended any malice; meanwhile the Mirage series creators could have prevented that at many turns. They could have refused to license the cartoon. They could have gotten more proactive in directing the cartoon to ensure it was more loyal to the Mirage series. They could have steadfastly refused to nerf the Mirage series; cartoon recruits be damned. However, as has been said, I don't see any evidence that the Mirage series was nerfed, anyway. It certainly didn't stay as "dark" as its first issue a lot of the time, but then, that issue was originally a one-off with a ridiculous concept stuck in a typical Miller-esque story, because surely it wouldn't sell anyway, so why not? That it did necessitated Eastman and Laird giving the series more personality, more variety, and more ethical depth, because one long cycle of vengeance and killing would make for a pretty dull series. They still did plenty of mature stories, such as "The Path." I want to see a copy of this note from Eastman and Laird, where they said they had to nerf it, but even if it really exists and they did go ahead and nerf it, that's bull. They didn't have to; if they did it that's because they wanted more money. __________________

07-17-2013, 07:06 PM	#16
Konchadunga Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 912	If you hate the Fred Wolf series, then I don't expect you to like this show in the long run, although I guess it depends to some extent on why you hate it. If it's the slaptsticky, junk throwing sort of fight scenes from FW that you hated, then you can be reasonably sure you won't see such things here. If you expect a situation where Shredder has a sympathetic side and Splinter has some fault of his own in the feud, then you may well be disappointed. If you expect a lot of blood, well, don't. Finally, though I resent this myself, you probably shouldn't expect an incredibly strong story arc that always satisfies your questions and then poses new ones right away, though to be fair, Mirage also had plenty of filler stories. __________________ Last edited by Konchadunga; 07-17-2013 at 07:12 PM.

07-17-2013, 05:08 PM	#3
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,954	Who cares? Your opinions aren't facts. Just because certain things aren't for you doesn't mean they're a blemish on the 'legacy'.

07-17-2013, 05:09 PM	#4
Bauer536 Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,550	I don't see it going downhill. While it is something that we always fear when another season comes on television, I'm still excited. While there were some lame factors in the OT, I think Nieli and Nickelodeon are doing their best to make the lame more appealing. Somehow, everything that was once lame are turned into something new and cool. OT Shredder is nothing compared to 2k12 Shredder. Leatherhead is not a villain that dresses up like a gangster and leans more toward the Mirage Leatherhead. It's basically a show that incorporates the good, the bad, and the ugly into something refreshing, entertaining, and just so darn good.

07-17-2013, 05:21 PM	#7
Cowabunga Carl Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,384	We all have opinions, but to state them like fact and tell others who may like something that it is tarnishing the legacy isn't the way to make friends. I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, not everyone will like everything about TMNT. Just cause there are new versions or takes on them doesn't take away from what you like. If you prefer Mirage and 2k3 nothing is stopping you from rereading or watching those. 2k12 is breathing life back into the franchise that we all love. We have to be realistic when Nick bought the TMNT the franchise was dying a slow death. Liard could not capture the magic that catapulted the TMNT into the spot light by doing it his way. I am grateful that he and Kevin Eastmen made the TMNT but just cause they created it didn't mean they always knew what was best for it.

07-17-2013, 05:38 PM	#8
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	Where the hell did this guy get the impression the Mirage comics were "nerfed" because of the cartoon? WTF?

07-17-2013, 05:46 PM	#9
JTH "ME" Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,660	As a fan of this franchise \/ \/ \/, I hear this bastardized/tarnished legacy thing a lot. Spoiler: And far too often I hear the argument that is basically translated to, "It's not meant for me, so it sucks." When people just aren't looking at the bigger picture, sometimes things just need to be changed to bring in a new audience. There are many 80s shows that are basically dead and disappeared, that example I showed despite detest from some of it's original fan base is now more popular than it's ever been. Sometimes changes must be made, even if they're changes some don't like. It's about bringing in new fans; cause without new fans, franchises die.

07-17-2013, 05:50 PM	#10
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	I'd still like to know where the hell this guy got the impression the Mirage comics were kiddified because of the cartoon. That right there should tell you this guy has no clue what he's talking about.

07-17-2013, 06:39 PM	#15
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	The thread starter is delusional. He hates a cartoon based on something false that never happened and he blames those characters for something that never happened?

07-17-2013, 07:20 PM	#17
Warboss74 Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 230	If you're going to blame the cartoon for any negative effect on the comic, it would make more sense to blame it for pulling Kevin and Peter away from the comics for 3 years after Return to New York. Although, I doubt we get City at War without how hectic the franchise got.

07-17-2013, 07:31 PM	#18
NinjaPug Foot Elite Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,390	So, you liked the 87 toon enough to check out the source material? After reading that you start to hate the thing that got you interested in the property to begin with? I assume you realize that without the 87 toon you probably would've never heard of the franchise.

07-17-2013, 07:48 PM	#19
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	I love how people have double standards. TMNT can't have a kids cartoon, yet Batman/Spiderman, etc. can all have kids cartoons, movies aimed at adults, and comic books all at the same time and nobody cares. Yet if TMNT has a kids cartoon people think its something different? WTF>

07-17-2013, 07:53 PM	#20
Konchadunga Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 912	Almost everything can have different incarnations for different people. Whether all incarnations will be liked is the point of contention. But though there's plenty of good reasons for a Mirage fan to hate the Fred Wolf show, I don't think that MothraLeo's is one of them. __________________ Last edited by Konchadunga; 07-18-2013 at 01:13 AM.