Donnie's pacifism

[victory_angel]

In majority of the Turtles incarnations, it has been often hinted or implied that Donnie has a pacifistic nature.

While at it's core pacifism does mean the person has a strong dislike towards violence and killing. But it's actually more of a spectrum then an aversion.

All the versions of Donatello seem to fit in the area of the spectrum that does agree that fighting is necessary but will prefer to use non-lethal ways of taking out an opponent. Yet if driven too it they will kill an opponent but suffer emotional backlash as a result.

In this incarnation I get the impression that Donatello has not accepted that part of himself as of yet. And perhaps he could be a better fighter once he learns to accept his own nature when it comes to fighting vs. fighting the same way his brothers do.

What do you guys think?

[Shark_Blade]

He shouts when his brothers bugged him.

*Don working on the bomb panel in The Gauntlet*

Leo: Any minute now Donnie!
Don: BE QUIET!!!


He's pacifist, but not to the point where they usually can walk all over him. Nick Donnie is more balanced than all past incarnation, he's the best version imo. He also snapped at April: "I know bait doesn't talk back!!"

[Michelangelo]

Methinks one thinks too much about the one who thinks too much.
Sure everything said here can be seen and Donny has taken the more pacifistic role in his approach to drama and conflict throughout the different series.
In the new one there is certainly a bit more attitude as Shark blade made note of.
There are certainly a lot more characteristics on display for Donny in the new Nick series, but I think the pacifistic nature does underlie his personality as a whole.
Still, he is a ninja, a teenage one at that, and he seems to be learning to figure himself out as he faces all the challenges through the show. There is a good sense of character development here for Donny. His weapon is his brain and his words at times and he doesn't hold back all the time. On the fighting front he can really kickass. Still the pacifist thing is definitely there. It certainly changes things up, like how Raph relishes in letting loose on enemies with his anger and Mikey is either joking around or scared out of his shell while Leo is always mister 'why so serious'.
It gives everything they do from the fighting etc personality and Donny is for sure a pacifist at heart.

[ticktack]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

What do you guys think?

That this incarnation going on its own way in some aspects.
And usually leave free space for characteristics for other characters other than set them on being angry, pacifist, wolverine/cyclope, joker, the funloving etc.

[BabyTurtles]

he wasn't so pacifistic when he let Metalhead beat the crap outta the turtles XD


(he's all happy he beat up Raph XD lol smug little turtle)

and he was a little trigger happy with those Kraang too



I think he rather not fight himself...but let his inventions do the work for him.
not that he can't fight himself XD anyway I don't think he's pacifistic

[kelligrafie]

I think as well, he's intelligent and likes to work things out intelligently, even if he's fighting.

Running at an enemy and smashing them aside, where's the challenge in that?

This is illustrated really well in Follow The Leader.

He's a logical, mathematical, distraction-based fighter.

You could say that he's making more work for himself but if he doesn't stimulate himself, Donnie wouldn't grow mentally and become quite bored or frustrated.

[DarkLightDragon]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

he wasn't so pacifistic when he let Metalhead beat the crap outta the turtles XD


(he's all happy he beat up Raph XD lol smug little turtle)

and he was a little trigger happy with those Kraang too



I think he rather not fight himself...but let his inventions do the work for him.
not that he can't fight himself XD anyway I don't think he's pacifistic

That's kind of what pacifism means though. Being pacifistic means you dislike and try to avoid fighting, but you have to when the chips are down or when your non-violent ways aren't working in your favor.

As an example, Mega Man is typical portrayed as a pacifist who doesn't like taking down his fellow robot kind, and yet every game has him fighting each and every one who stands in his way to achieve everlasting peace.

[plastroncafe]

Yeah, pacifism doesn't mean incapable of fighting.
It means choosing a non-violent path when possible.

I'd say that using metalhead to do his fighting for him could be argued as a pacifistic approach.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Yeah, pacifism doesn't mean incapable of fighting.
It means choosing a non-violent path when possible.

I'd say that using metalhead to do his fighting for him could be argued as a pacifistic approach.

no.....Pacifism is the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.

I'm pretty sure Metalhead is not a peaceful means XD

I just don't buy that Donnie is pacifistic....I mean sure he's not the type to want to fight....cause who wants to fight for no reason?? Mikey doesn't like fighting for no reason....he doesn't even like arguing. (Raph...on the other hand) all the turtles more or less fight for self defense though

Donnie is the type of person to think up a plan....and do it in the most precise/easy/fast way possible. Sometimes avoiding a fight is logical for him.

that's why we have seen him use Metalhead, cause it's better. (until Metalhead's head pops off...then he has to fight)

[plastroncafe]

Pedantically yes, as a practiced philosophy it's not so black and white as that.
One can be a pacifist while following a path of non-aggression. Meaning they won't start something, but they will finish it if brought to their door and outwardly threatens. That's where I'd put Donatello of the Mirage universe. Time will tell if that's the path of the Nick incarnation.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

he wasn't so pacifistic when he let Metalhead beat the crap outta the turtles XD


(he's all happy he beat up Raph XD lol smug little turtle)

and he was a little trigger happy with those Kraang too



I think he rather not fight himself...but let his inventions do the work for him.
not that he can't fight himself XD anyway I don't think he's pacifistic

Well the thing about the Metalhead episode did point out is Donnie was treating combat as though it was a video game. And in a videogame you distance your mind from what is going on because we know it's not real. So yeah he beats his brothers using metalhead because but that wasn't intentional harm (as in seriously injuring his bros), he was countering their attacks to prove that technology could just an effective weapon as any of of their traditional weapons.

And yeah he does become trigger happy in fighting the Kraang. But again he is distancing his mind and thinking of it as a video game. After all who hasn't gone trigger happy on video games at one point or another.

However what tipped me off to the belief that Donnie may not have accepted the pacifist side of himself when he's sort of trapped into admitting he is one.

Raph: So it's a weapon for wimps who are too scared to fight!?

Donnie: No it's a weapon for wimps who are to smart to fight!...Wait...


The entire episode he had lost faith in his weapon because it wasn't effective against alien tech. And as such he believes his weapon holds him back. But with metalhead he points out that he's invincible which for a time he is. However the moment he realizes his bros are in serious danger he's able to be an effective fighter and save the day using his original weapon.

The same goes with "Target: April O'Neil" He does lay the smack down on Karai and was ready to kill the *itch for wanting to kill April. But again he was driven towards killing intent to save someone who he cared about.

However with Timothy, it was a different story because he didn't want be forced to hurt his friend the way he did. And it's clear the fact he even had to come to hurting and betraying someone he cared about to save someone else he cared about from potential harm had a profound effect on him seeing as he didn't take it as a victory. And it's safe to say Mutagen man isn't dead as he will probably return some time in the future. But it's possible the ordeal with him may indeed push any pacifistic aspect of Donnie's personality to the forefront.

And while that may be initially viewed as a weakness, Splinter may impart that it's actually a strength because it will enable him to see where logic and diplomacy could be a better solution then brute force. To discover ways minimize the casualties that could impact the team and innocent people that wouldn't be as obvious to any one else.

[Aaronardo]

I know that this episode isn't from the Nick show, but dare I say... I can't read this thread without thinking of "Same As It Never Was".

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ThatCollectorGuy

I know that this episode isn't from the Nick show, but dare I say... I can't read this thread without thinking of "Same As It Never Was".

Hmmm interesting....could you explain more?

[Luigiperps]

I want Mikey to become a pacifist. Maybe have him not fight with the others for a bit and be like the turtles oracle.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Hmmm interesting....could you explain more?

When you think about it, you clearly see that while Donnie is down and cannot move, his brothers are brutally murdered. Angry with himself about not being able to save them, and angry at Ch'rell, and already pushed over the edge before by Splinter's death, he does all he can to kill the a$$hole who murdered them all. In his eyes, he must see it as justice. But outside of his head, it's him being pacifist. I could explain many more examples of that from Donnie, but it's a start

[Garfield]

I've never thought of any version Don as specifically so much more pacifistic than the other turtles. I think because Don is often the most scientifically intelligent, calm and in some versions soft spoken; some people lump him into the realm of being a pacifist over the other turtles, when that isn't the case. I feel that in more versions, Michelangelo is closer to being a pacifist than Don.

[Electric]

this donnie doesnt seem as much as a pacifist as the other incarnations. hes also more high strung and outspoken. this is actually one problem i have with this donnie.

for example, 2k3 donnie never got in an altercation with the rest of his brothers. even if raph made a comment to him, he never really reacted. he was always calm collected and reasonable. he was my favorite turtle in 2k3.

i completely understand this new take on donnie though, making him a little nerdier and uptight, quick to snap, and it makes sense, since hes under a lot of pressure. i just prefer the calmer donnie.

with this though, i have noticed some changes in donnie in this current season. the last episode showed alot of it. when he blows up thew lair, he tries to apologize, raph cuts him off, and he kinda just lets it go and lets raph rant. when raph refuses to clean up, he has that same look and doesnt fight back. where in the last season he would make comments right back, now he kinda just takes it in.

[JTH]

As of right now, I wouldn't say it's "pacifism". But it's definitely...something different, I can't really even think of the word for it though.

Originally Posted by ElectricN

this donnie doesnt seem as much as a pacifist as the other incarnations. hes also more high strung and outspoken. this is actually one problem i have with this donnie.

for example, 2k3 donnie never got in an altercation with the rest of his brothers. even if raph made a comment to him, he never really reacted. he was always calm collected and reasonable. he was my favorite turtle in 2k3.

i completely understand this new take on donnie though, making him a little nerdier and uptight, quick to snap, and it makes sense, since hes under a lot of pressure. i just prefer the calmer donnie.

with this though, i have noticed some changes in donnie in this current season. the last episode showed alot of it. when he blows up thew lair, he tries to apologize, raph cuts him off, and he kinda just lets it go and lets raph rant. when raph refuses to clean up, he has that same look and doesnt fight back. where in the last season he would make comments right back, now he kinda just takes it in.

That's one of the things I've liked so far, Season 1 all the turtles were kind of different versions of themselves being like wild teens, but as Season 2 has progressed, they're starting to evolve into the personas that they've always had. But I've really come to love this Donnie cause they gave him that extra spunk that I felt he always lacked in other versions.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by jth

As of right now, I wouldn't say it's "pacifism". But it's definitely...something different, I can't really even think of the word for it though.


That's one of the things I've liked so far, Season 1 all the turtles were kind of different versions of themselves being like wild teens, but as Season 2 has progressed, they're starting to evolve into the personas that they've always had. But I've really come to love this Donnie cause they gave him that extra spunk that I felt he always lacked in other versions.

yep. theyre all developing. each one is turning into the turtle we know and love, while still being different.

with donnie, again, i understand it. he has something different then the past ones and i understand why they made him like he is. it completely works with his character here, while not really detracting anything from the core of donnie. i just prefer the other ones, but this one is definitely growing on me

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

this donnie doesnt seem as much as a pacifist as the other incarnations. hes also more high strung and outspoken. this is actually one problem i have with this donnie.

for example, 2k3 donnie never got in an altercation with the rest of his brothers. even if raph made a comment to him, he never really reacted. he was always calm collected and reasonable. he was my favorite turtle in 2k3.

i completely understand this new take on donnie though, making him a little nerdier and uptight, quick to snap, and it makes sense, since hes under a lot of pressure. i just prefer the calmer donnie.

with this though, i have noticed some changes in donnie in this current season. the last episode showed alot of it. when he blows up thew lair, he tries to apologize, raph cuts him off, and he kinda just lets it go and lets raph rant. when raph refuses to clean up, he has that same look and doesnt fight back. where in the last season he would make comments right back, now he kinda just takes it in.

Because he knows and understands was his fault. And he of all of them knows what sort of person Spike is for Raph, because Timothy had been the same outlet for him. So the feels horrible because he knows what he had nearly taken away from his brother.