"Why my Turtlez has lips?" - An Explainer

[Cipher]

Pulling this out of the other design thread so we can all read it, discuss it, collectively wipe our brows and get on with our day.

We've recently seen a picture of what is purported to be a leaked design for Michelangelo in the form of an early Halloween costume ad. Predictably, this has led to many complaints, by far the stupidest of which is that he has "lips."

So, here it is. Why your Turtles have lips:

The Turtles might have something resembling lips because you absolutely need those muscles to make any sounds remotely resembling English phonemes.

In cartoons, you can get away with lip-sync because it doesn't need to look realistic. The Nicktoons models can be flat-faced and lipless all day long because, at the end of the day, as long as their mouth makes a vaguely convincing shape that corresponds to the correct sound, you'll buy that it's what they're saying.

In a "realistic" movie, that doesn't quite fly. You need those muscles there because, if we're to accept that these mutant, humanoid Turtles created through alien science are capable of speaking our language, they need them. And we've never had anything close to resembling an actual attempt at lip-sync in a live-action Turtle film before.

So, yeah, sorry. Lips. And I'm all aboard the "beak-faced, Zulli-esque monstrosity" train for any future incarnation that wants to ride it. It's just that, not only is this not a bad alternative, it actually makes more sense.

Also, they have nostrils so they can breathe.

Discuss with the utmost alarm and hyperbole.

FIRST-POST ADDENDUM

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

The first movie turtles didn't have lips, they talked just fine and it looked awesome, cg cartoon turtles didn't have lips...

I've seen this about a dozen times today, so let's break it down again:

The Turtles of the '90s movies get by largely because they're practical effects. There's no lip sync going on whatsoever, though. A CGI model in a live-action movie with that level of facial leeway would look jarringly cartoony (the old costumes are basically mouth open, mouth shut, and one or two other pre-set facial reactions).

CG cartoon Turtles work because they are in a (hyper-stylized, no less) cartoon. See chrisdude's post on the second page.

[Anton Chigurh]

...........dang........

[Blossombrooks]

Well colour me stupid if you like but as I pointed out in the other thread I don't believe that's the reason. Those lips are there to represent the actor behind him, it's a defining characteristic which will help each of the turtles carry a unique look. I agree it will help with making the speech look realistic but I don't have to like it, some things I like about it others I don't.

[bridgegrn]

Eh. I understand the logic behind it, I just don't like the way it looks. Classic look all the way for me.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Blossombrooks

Well colour me stupid if you like but as I pointed out in the other thread I don't believe that's the reason. Those lips are there to represent the actor behind him, it's a defining characteristic which will help each of the turtles carry a unique look. I agree it will help with making the speech look realistic but I don't have to like it, some things I like about it others I don't.

This is also a fair, practical reason, and I'm guessing both motivations played a part in the design. You need human facial elements for realism; might as well reflect and use more detailed motion-capture from the actors.

[1984TMNT]

And as I mentioned in the other thread:

I think they could easily make the mouth move in the exact way it needs to without "puffed" out lips. Just because in reality, an animal would need full on lips to pronounce English words doesn't mean those same lips need to be shown or rendered exactly the same way.

The point is that these are mutants and don't need to look exactly like humans, even when talking. As you stated earlier, as long as their mouth moves in generaly accepted motions that coincide with certain words, it would be believable enough.

Obviously, we have different opinions on it - and it really is hard to tell without actual visuals to compare. It's a subjective call at best.

[Andrew NDB]

My question is: why do they even need to sound like normal humans speaking in flawless English?

I think if they talked in raspy voices and broken words, strained pronunciations that'd be kind of cool and unique.

[turtlefanforever]

Your arguing that the computerized turtles from the show can get away with not having lips but te computized turtles in the movie can't. Care to explain?

[CyberCubed]

Making excuses for bad designs makes no difference. You know they only gave them lips so one of the Turtles can have a make out scene with Megan Fox.

You heard it here first.

[Andrew NDB]

It actually reminds of the reports of the initial pitches for the first Turtles movie. You know, where it would be Billy Crystal and 3 other comedians with their faces painted green.

But no, nothing that has leaked about any facet of this movie would lead me to believe anything they're doing with the Turtles' (designs or otherwise) is with any kind of earnest intention of making them more "realistic." If they're putting lips on them it's so that they can look cuter, more marketable and more like the actors "playing" them.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Making excuses for bad designs makes no difference. You know they only gave them lips so one of the Turtles can have a make out scene with Megan Fox.

You heard it here first.

You're still on that man? I mean I wouldn't put it past him but are you prepared for the sh*tstorm you're gonna get it if doesn't happen? It'll be worse than what you're getting now. I don't see why you have to turn this thing into a soft core porno.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Making excuses for bad designs makes no difference. You know they only gave them lips so one of the Turtles can have a make out scene with Megan Fox.

You heard it here first.

[Bob]

This is the original Transformers film discussion all over again, regarding Optimus Prime having lips. Takes me back. TBH, I didn't care then and I care less now.

[turtlefanforever]

The first 3 and the next mutation did fine actually. So did 'TMNT' you don't need huge lips or lips at all. They're talking turtles. How realistic can it be?

[xChri5x]

Jodie Foster won an Oscar without lips.

[xChri5x]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

[Slap-Happy]

Originally Posted by electric_sheep

Wtf. That's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen on this forum.

[Roseangelo]

The turtles have more-pronounced lips than I do.

[Powder]

Screw that logic. Their design is a far cry from realistic. & if you're gonna try to justify things that way, it better go across the board. If a sequel comes out and additional mutants aren't botox lipped beasts, then the turtles didn't have to be either.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

My question is: why do they even need to sound like normal humans speaking in flawless English?

I think if they talked in raspy voices and broken words, strained pronunciations that'd be kind of cool and unique.

Hey, man. I'd be all for it. Like I said, I hope we one day see some pale, monstrous, fear-of-the-uncanny Zulli style designs.

But it should be obvious that was never the direction they were going to go in for this movie. And, historically, the Turtles have sounded like normal humans speaking flawless English.

Originally Posted by Bob

This is the original Transformers film discussion all over again, regarding Optimus Prime having lips. Takes me back. TBH, I didn't care then and I care less now.

Well, maybe. Because the designs were also the only things I liked about the Transformers movies.

Also, I think people are exaggerating the hugeness of the lips?

Also, also, re: below: thank you.