Why do people still think calling someone gay is an insult?

[Davetello]

I use another forum, based around soccer. And on that forum casual racism and homophobia seems to be the norm. It's a much rougher forum than this, and essentially has no moderating. It's a free-for-all.

Most of the people who indulge in this sort of thing are amongst my 'friends' on there. And honestly, even though they're knowledgeable guys for the most part, sometimes I just wanna tell them to quit it with the prejudice. But I just can't be bothered arguing about it.

They often say these things in defence of other peoples' attacks on me. I don't ask for help and I can take care of myself, but I'm one of the older users there (in age, I'm actually relatively new to the site i.e. just over a year) and am respected as a knowledgeable poster, so it's natural that some people will leap to my defence. For example, there are a few people there who have a severe dislike of me because I am critical of a certain player (this player attracts legions of creepy, sycophantic fanboys generally in football, the sort who think he's above criticism). These people are clearly fanboys of this player, and truth be told most of them are pretty clueless about football generally. They clearly have some sort of mancrush on the guy, and they do deserve to be treated with contempt for attacking others and talking balls, but I still feel the constant 'queer' and 'f a g g o t' accusations are uncalled for. I mean they might well have a liking for men (this footballer seems to attract the androgynous type) but I don't see the problem with that. The far bigger issue is how clueless they are about the game, as well as their blind devotion to someone who doesn't know they exist and wouldn't p!ss on them if they were on fire.

So yeah, I'm using anecdotal evidence to express my dislike for racism and homophobia on the internet. I don't care if these people are gay or in the closet. What I do care about is that - if they do have a gay crush or a mancrush on this player - it's leading them to overrate and exaggerate his abilities.

Other comments on this site include attacks on Mexicans and claims that Polish people living in Britain are absolute scum. And the worrying thing is that many of the people who indulge in this sh!t are actually very intelligent people and, as already stated, get on very well with me. It's a bit like stormfront but more jokey, because I get the feeling that some of these people are playing up for the cameras, so to speak.

So, I ask again - why do people think being called gay is some sort of insult? If someone called me a 'homo' or a 'f a g g ot' I'd just laugh at them as I know I'm straight. And even if I was gay - so what?

[snake]

People are too sensitive.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

People are too sensitive.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Short, clear and to the point. I like it. Generally you're right, although you should also listen to Baz Luhrmann's words in the song "Sunscreen". He talks about paying attention to compliments and forgetting the insults, and if we achieve this to tell him how.

To be fair, racism and homophobia is way beyond the point of 'just being sensitive', given that these groups have been discriminated against throughout history.

[ssjup81]

Probably because people also use the word to mean "stupid".

To me, it's sorta like the "n-word". I don't use it and hate hearing it because of the negativity and hatred behind it and how it was used to make us feel inferior. A lot of older people hate hearing younger generations using such a term because it's degrading and imo, every time we use it, we're degrading ourselves...but yeah, that's how I feel about it.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Probably because people also use the word to mean "stupid".

To me, it's sorta like the "n-word". I don't use it and hate hearing it because of the negativity and hatred behind it and how it was used to make us feel inferior. A lot of older people hate hearing younger generations using such a term because it's degrading and imo, every time we use it, we're degrading ourselves...but yeah, that's how I feel about it.

I forgot you were black - I hope this doesn't bring to the surface too many unhappy memories

Lots of blacks think that using the 'n' word is empowering - a way to take control of it all. Like when women call themselves 'sluts' to celebrate rightly enjoying their sexuality.

I didn't know people used 'gay' as another term for stupid either. I've only seen that happen very rarely, and clearly by very immature and silly young people who can barely string a coherent sentence together - a totally different set to the intelligent people I reference in the original post.

[CyberCubed]

Ever since I was in middle school kids always said things like, "That's gay" to say something was stupid or dumb.

If you liked a TV show they didn't like, they would say, "That TV show is so gay, why do you watch it?"

Its just a derogatory word dating back unconciously to homophobia.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Ever since I was in middle school kids always said things like, "That's gay" to say something was stupid or dumb.

If you liked a TV show they didn't like, they would say, "That TV show is so gay, why do you watch it?"

Its just a derogatory word dating back unconciously to homophobia.

Yeah but those people are morons. I'm making the distinction between them and some very savvy, articulate people who find it funny to call people queers and the n word.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah but those people are morons. I'm making the distinction between them and some very savvy, articulate people who find it funny to call people queers and the n word.

My coworker, in his mid to late 40s uses "gay" to mean stupid. He's a smart guy too...I don't think it truly matters.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

My coworker, in his mid to late 40s uses "gay" to mean stupid. He's a smart guy too...I don't think it truly matters.

Might be an isolated case. I've never really come across smart, mature people who use gay as a way of calling someone an idiot. But I might be wrong.

[Metalwolf]

I've been mostly hearing 'gay' as a term for 'idiot' or 'stupid.' The 'F word' seems to be an insult too, but mostly done by straight males towards other straight males (especially when they are acting irritating) not usually at a gay person though. This also is coming to mean 'idiot.'

As for 'gay' it doesn't have it's roots in a gay-hating sense, it has roots in that it used to mean 'merry.' The Flintstones had the 'Have a gay old time' in it's theme song.

The 'n' word used to be another word that meant 'in a stupid manner,' especially once you added the letters 'dly.' I don't know how it came to be an insulting word towards blacks, unless it evolved through another word that meant 'black.'

Words seem to be ever evolving, especially in the English language.

[CyberCubed]

Its hard to believe "selfie" is actually going to be an official word added to the dictionary thanks to teenagers and tumblr people who take pics of themselves with their phones.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I've been mostly hearing 'gay' as a term for 'idiot' or 'stupid.' The 'F word' seems to be an insult too, but mostly done by straight males towards other straight males (especially when they are acting irritating) not usually at a gay person though. This also is coming to mean 'idiot.'

As for 'gay' it doesn't have it's roots in a gay-hating sense, it has roots in that it used to mean 'merry.' The Flintstones had the 'Have a gay old time' in it's theme song.

The 'n' word used to be another word that meant 'in a stupid manner,' especially once you added the letters 'dly.' I don't know how it came to be an insulting word towards blacks, unless it evolved through another word that meant 'black.'

Words seem to be ever evolving, especially in the English language.

Thanks for another informative post. They are always appreciated.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Its hard to believe "selfie" is actually going to be an official word added to the dictionary thanks to teenagers and tumblr people who take pics of themselves with their phones.

I still don't get that. Anyone who takes a photo of themselves with a digital camera is surely taking a 'selife'? So why does it seem to be a new word? Did it come about with the rise of the tablet?

The world is a very, very strange place.

[Gorilla Grodd]

A lot of people are just homophobic and know that they hate it if someone insinuates that they are anything less than the most heterosexual alpha male on the planet. So they in turn throw around the homophobic insults when they want to get under the skin of another insecure person with that same mindset.

But there is also a huge contingent of people that are not truly homophobic but still throw these terms around just out of sheer force of habit. There is zero homophobic intent behind their use of "gay" or "***" in a demeaning way. It's just something they heard a lot when they were little kids and began using it themselves. Over time it just becomes so second nature that it's difficult to break the habit. I've even met gay people that see something they think is stupid and go, "That's gay." or if someone is annoying them they will drop the, "Stop being a ***." because they too became so accustomed to saying it that it just gets blurted out when they're not really thinking.

My friends and I all started using these words as insults when we were kids long before we ever even knew that homosexuality existed. We were probably throwing them around along with all of our other fun little expletives for a solid year or two before we ever found out the original meaning of them. We legitimately just thought they were another version of "dumb" or "lame". The same as asshole or bitch or whatever else. Once we became aware of what they actually meant we would still use the words in the same way we always did, but if we thought someone may actually be gay we wouldn't say stuff like that to them because we never wanted to actually hurt anybody.

As I got older and more mature I cut the use of those words out of my vocabulary because as you get older and wiser you realize the kind of damage that does when a group of teenagers are all hanging out calling each other these words meanwhile the one kid in the closet is hearing this and actually being affected by it in a very negative and unfortunate way. It's the kind of thing where you wish you could go back in time and smack the younger you and point all of this stuff out.

So while I no longer say these kinds of things I also don't instantly vilify people for saying things like that off the cuff or in moments of frustration. You have to judge it on a case by case basis and determine the intent.

[Mayhem]

Yes, "gay" did and still does mean merry or happy, but people barely use it now in that context because it is associated with homosexual men. And don't go asking for a *** (cigarette) in the US because... well, you probably already know. It's the same with "spaz" (from "spastic") which is a fairly horrible abuse term here in the UK (in the same way Americans love to use "gay") but it has no social stigma in the US.

That stemmed from a TV program called Blue Peter occasionally featuring a mentally disabled patient called Joey Deacon in the early 80s who was a prominent promotional figure for the Spastic Society in the UK. Cue the kids around the playground using the words "spaz" and "Joey" to shout at each other. Eventually the Spastic Society changed its name to SCOPE in response, which didn't alter much; now the kids call each other "scopers" instead! Which isn't great for my brother's girlfriend when she was younger, as her name is S.Cope. I kid you not...

This is also why poor Tiger Woods got caught out one year playing at the British Open golf tournament, commented he's played like a spaz in one of his rounds and the media here was up in arms.

Playing online via XBox, and sometimes catching the high pitched rants from kids whose balls haven't dropped yet and are too young to be playing the games in question, then the most popular terms I hear as abuse are "jew", the n-word, "f**", "queer" and "homo". Evidently they are nervous about their own masculinity!

When they've discovered they have a Limey in their mix (ie. me), then the most popular insults tend to be regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets, and reading Harry Potter. WTF? How are those cusses?

[Gorilla Grodd]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

When they've discovered they have a Limey in their mix (ie. me), then the most popular insults tend to be regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets, and reading Harry Potter. WTF? How are those cusses?

In the same way that when a group of Brits find an American in their midst on Xbox Live the words "9/11", "World Trade Center" and "McDonalds" get repeated ad nauseam.

[BubblyShell22]

Well, this is a very interesting topic, Dave. I think it's because people are very sensitive and may get offended easily if you say something like that. If someone were to call me gay or whatever, I'd just say, "No, I'm straight, but thanks anyway." I used to use the term "gay" to mean stupid because I was watching South Park and they would use that on there. I don't do it in public at all because I know better than that, but if I want to say it in the privacy of my own home, I'm going to. I also have no qualms about calling someone retarded if I feel that they're doing something stupid that they should have the common sense to know not to do that thing. I called my sister retarded for going back to her loser of a husband because she should have had the common sense not to do that. Again, I'd never say it in a public place unless I felt the need to, and even then, I'd do my best to be discreet about it. But then again, why should I? If I offend someone, then, yes, I'll apologize to them, but we've become such a PC society that we can't really express ourselves the way we want to.

I'm sure people will take this the wrong way, but that's the way I feel. It's not like I go around making fun of mentally handicapped people or anything like that, but if someone's acting in a manner where they should have the common sense to know better and they're of sound mind and body to KNOW this, then I'm going to call them retarded.

[plastroncafe]

People use gay as an insult because to be gay it means you're "less than a man." Those same people are likely to use gendered slurs to also indicate weakness. Anything that attributes itself to something other than Strong Male is therefore weak and worthy of mockery.

You'll see it on here...constantly.
If it's something women/girls like, then it must be bad.
And since gay men like men, something women/girls are supposed to like, it must be "less than."

I'm sure people will take this the wrong way, but that's the way I feel. It's not like I go around making fun of mentally handicapped people or anything like that, but if someone's acting in a manner where they should have the common sense to know better and they're of sound mind and body to KNOW this, then I'm going to call them retarded.

Well not in public anyway.

[BubblyShell22]

I think you misunderstood me. I meant if someone is doing something stupid to where they should know better than to do it, then I'm going to call them out on it and say they're being retarded. I meant that I don't go around making fun of people who have Tourette's or who are mentally handicapped because that is wrong. But if one of my family members or friends is doing something that I deem as retarded in that they should know better than to do it, I'm going to call them out on it.

I also hate the double standards when it comes to "gay" or the N word. If gays can call each other queers and all of those other words, then why is it wrong for anyone else to do it? Same goes with the N word. It makes no sense to me.

[plastroncafe]

I'm not misunderstanding you.

You compare people making life choices you wouldn't were you in their place to people who are mentally handicapped, and use a slur to do it. But only in private, where no one can call you out on it.

If we lived in a fair world you'd be right about that whole double standard language thing, but we don't. We live in a world of double standards, and what you're trying to pass off as an equal thing, isn't. It's a false equivalency.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, so? To me, if you make a choice that's dumb, you are acting like a mentally handicapped person because some mentally handicapped people don't have the mental capacity to know better about some things due to their disabilities. On the other hand, someone who does have the mental capacity to know better and yet still does something stupid anyway because they just don't have plain common sense should be defined as retarded because they aren't using their heads.

Perfect example: My dad was going to microwave a sandwich from Wendy's Mom had gotten him, and he wanted to use the actual container the sandwich came in and put it in the microwave. I told him that it would be better to use a plate since there's no guarantee that it wouldn't start a fire, and I said, "Now, that sounds like a retarded idea to put that container in there, doesn't it?" He agreed with me but used the excuse that they used to do it at the mill where he worked all of the time. I said, "I don't care, it's still a dumb idea, and I don't want the house to go up in flames because of your retarded idea."

What I say in the privacy of my own home is my business and no one else's. I'll say whatever the hell I want when I'm not in public. If I think something is retarded, I'm going to say so.

Also, I'm of short stature and used to be called a midget. When I was younger, it offended me, but as I've gotten older, I've learned to not be offended by it anymore. If someone were to call me a midget today, I'd say, "And proud of it." Why? Because I don't let things like that bother me. People need to stop being so damn sensitive about things.