TMNT 2014 - Thoughts from UK viewers - SPOILERS

D Piddy 1982 · 10-13-2014, 03:51 AM

Before I get shot down in flames – I’m setting up this thread for UK peeps to discuss their thoughts on the film as it has only just been released over here. Therefore this thread is bound to cover many comments and discussions already posted. However those threads are now 10’sof pages long so it’s very difficult to find any relevant comments for someone who has only just seen the film.

So…if you aren’t UK based and don’t want to be bored / irritated by members covering old ground, don’t read any further!

Also this thread WILL contain spoilers.

My initial thoughts and comments on seeing it for the first time.

Good points.
> Amazing effects.
> Personally I like the new Turtle designs. Splinter’s not so hot, Shredder is pretty badass.
> Cool that Karai is in it, and given plenty of screen time.
> I enjoyed the Turtles characters.
> Will Arnett as Vern was a plus point.
> Megan Fox wasn’t actually THAT bad!
> Very entertaining. Snow chase was much better than I thought it was gonna be!
> Fights scenes were pretty slick to be fair.

Bad points.
> I hated…HATED…the fact that Splinter and the Turtles have next to no relationship with Shredder. The only reason Shredder is even interested in the Turtles is because of the mutagen in their blood.
> The fact that Splinter learnt Ninjitsu from a book. Self-taught. That is a terrible decision from the writers, TERRIBLE. (no wonder Shredder kicked all their assess).
> It seemed to me that the only time we ever really saw the Turtles was when there was action. There were never really any scenes of them just chilling. For example in the original movie when Mike and Don are waiting for the pizza to be delivered. Yes there is the 99 Cheese Pizza scene but on the whole, the Turtles are only used for action (budget?).
> Story was ridiculous. In the fact that The Foot (Shredder) apparently already ran the city. And Sacks also apparently had a lot of money (big mansion etc). So why did they even need to bother with trying to release the virus. Didn’t make sense. Would’ve made sense if Sacks was a struggling scientist and The Foot were a criminal organisation on the rise but not at the top. To me it seemed both Sacks and The Foot didn’t have much to gain from their ‘evil plan’.
> In some ways Shredder didn’t even make sense. Why did he need to personally go to the Turtles liar? Why did he need to personally go to the rooftop and release the virus? How did he suddenly know the Turtles names (i.e. when Raph fights Shredder, he immediately knows it is Raphael).
> Again more issues with the plot, what did Shredder even have to do with the mutagen tests that Sacks and April’s father carried out? The only link I can see is that Shredder raised Sacks as his own, but I can’t remember now why they said Shredder took Sacks under his wing?
> Aprils dad burning down the lab. Killing himself. April coming out of nowhere to save the Turtles. What about her dad?! Why did her dad need to basically commit suicide? Couldn’t he have just burned the lab and escaped? Senseless…senseless writing.

So infuriating that writers get paid to do this for a living and can’t even put together a basic plot or reasoning for any actions.

Questions.
> Why were The Foot/Sacks only interested in the Turtles and not Splinter? Did Splinter not also have mutagen running through his veins?
> Was it ever mentioned what Karai’s relationship was with Shredder? I missed that if so…
> One more…maybe I missed something again but…how did they survive the fall at the end? Pure luck?

Despite all the negativity above and massive plot holes…and also complete trampling over the TMNT history and characters…I still actually enjoyed the film (if you just sit back and don’t think), and will probably go see it a second time.

joefsas · 10-13-2014, 04:31 AM

I pretty much agree with all of your bad points

It's such a shame that this movie was let down by it's plot/story.
That aside, i still think this was an amazing film and I enjoyed it emmensely. I was on the positive side of the fence from the beginning but it out did all of my expectations! Mikey was hilarious and i loved the close knit family vibe too.

Would love to see this at the cinema again given the chance. In the meantime, does anyone know when this is likely to be released on dvd/bluray?

EDIT: Third time iv'e said this i think lol. But I'm so gutted they cut the elevator scene short. I thought Leo headbanging was hilarious...

Maybe we'll get a deleted scene on a dvd/bluray release? Fingers crossed lol

HotNunchuckFury · 10-13-2014, 05:35 AM

I loved it! No surprises there. Agree with all your plus points, Megan Fox surprised me big time and I actually like her as April.

I think learning ninjitsu from a book is about as believable as a pet rat imitating moves in his cage, but then that's why I've always preferred it when Splinter is Hamato Yoshi. Just makes it easier to believe for me.

During Sach's talk to the turtles in his lab, didn't he say something about wanting even more money and power? I'm thinking world domination, not just NYC. Sachs also revealed to April and Vern that he killed April's father when he discovered the truth.

I think they survived the fall because it was broken by buildings and they were inside that structure that stayed in one piece.

I too would like to see more of a backstory that further links Shredder to Splinter and the Turtles. It's something they could add to in the sequel, so hopefully we'll get that. I definitely want to see more downtime in the lair, or a training session with Splinter. I felt the scene where they were given their weapons and masks was very rushed and would liked to have seen more of that. Definitely happy that Karai was in it quite a bit but would like to see her given more dialogue next time and a bigger role in the story overall.

But as I said, I loved it. The tone of the film was spot on, as were the personalities of the characters and the relationships between them (excluding Shredder). I like the retelling of the origin, reminiscent of IDW but better in the sense that they grew up in the sewers rather than just mutating into teenagers. I would liked it to of been longer, but my 6 year old exclaimed "That was the longest film I've ever seen!" so perhaps they judged that right too when aiming at such a wide audience. Hoping to see it again next weekend

I'm pretty sure the DVD is due before Christmas and I'm betting the full elevator scene will be there somewhere in its full glory

Thanks for the thread btw, think we need it!

HeroTurtlesFan · 10-13-2014, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotNunchuckFury

I'm pretty sure the DVD is due before Christmas and I'm betting the full elevator scene will be there somewhere in its full glory

That's the US DVD release. I don't believe the UK is getting it till next year.

joefsas · 10-13-2014, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeroTurtlesFan

That's the US DVD release. I don't believe the UK is getting it till next year.

That's what i had heard

Ah well. Something else to look forward to after christmas i spose

HotNunchuckFury · 10-13-2014, 06:42 AM

Oh ok, sorry.

*IndigoErth* · 10-13-2014, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefsas

EDIT: Third time iv'e said this i think lol. But I'm so gutted they cut the elevator scene short. I thought Leo headbanging was hilarious...

Likewise. I was so looking forward to seeing the entire uncut scene, and then... [insert "you're kidding me" meme face]

Ok, sorry to butt in, carry on.

Been looking forward to seeing what you guys had to say.

Kanon · 10-13-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Piddy 1982

> Was it ever mentioned what Karai’s relationship was with Shredder? I missed that if so…

Ok I am German and didn´t watch the movie so far, BUT I got the movie novalization and it says:

"It was rumored that she has a special connection to Shredder.
Some whispered that she was his daughter, but no one could prove it."

I think they go the 2003 way with Karai as his adopted daughter.
Hope they will make this things clear in the second movie.

HotNunchuckFury · 10-14-2014, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Ok I am German and didn´t watch the movie so far, BUT I got the movie novalization and it says:

"It was rumored that she has a special connection to Shredder.
Some whispered that she was his daughter, but no one could prove it."

I think they go the 2003 way with Karai as his adopted daughter.
Hope they will make this things clear in the second movie.

Interesting. As far as I can remember, they didn't allure to anything like that in the movie, but that's not to say it wouldn't fit.

joefsas · 10-14-2014, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotNunchuckFury

Interesting. As far as I can remember, they didn't allure to anything like that in the movie, but that's not to say it wouldn't fit.

That's the way i remember it too. Nothing was mentioned about their relationship what so ever.
I can't imagine that's something that's going to be of much importance in a sequel either, but maybe that's just me

*Bry* · 10-14-2014, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotNunchuckFury

Interesting. As far as I can remember, they didn't allure to anything like that in the movie, but that's not to say it wouldn't fit.

Honestly, they were hardly even real characters in the movie - they were there, and they did things, but backstory and personality (and even a real name for Shredder) weren't established at all. Any motivation or deeper connection between them could only exist in the audiences' heads.

*THGhost* · 10-14-2014, 09:14 AM

Copy/pasted from the review thread:

Loved it a lot! I knew I was going to like but I didn't expect to love it so much.
I was really impressed with the CGI for the turtles and Splinter, the Shredder was such a badass both outside and inside his armour, Megan Fox was surprisingly okay as April too.
Mikey was so darn hilarious despite his somewhat creepy crush on April. Is that a thing now? With each new version of TMNT, one of the turtles has to fancy April?
Megan Fox's best line imho was when she screamed Raph's name while he fought the Shredder. She sounded genuinely distressed and was actually a good bit of acting on her part!
Will Arnett and Whoopi Goldberg were okay, didn't really see the need to make Burne a woman though.
Once it got going, the movie itself was very relentless with its set-pieces which I think worked in its favour. The excitement never stopped and I think kids will love that - I did and I'm a fully grown man. Even my girlfriend loved it and she's not a big TMNT fan like I am.
One thing I didn't like - no mention of Hamato Yoshi. That entire backstory was completely replaced with the whole "Project Renaissance" thing, with April knowing the turtles since she was a child. I found it extremely desperate and contrived that she would know them before their mutation and know who they are as teenagers.
The best parts of the movie were, obviously, the scenes with the turtles. They're bloody awesome from both an entertaining standpoint and a technical standpoint. They look amazing, especially in 3D.
I don't understand the praise for April's roommate. She was barely in it and wasn't funny at all.
It also would have been nice for Karai to have had some actual character development. Other than her name and that she works with the Foot Clan, we found out nothing about her.
What happened to the scenes with the turtles wearing trench coats in the streets? The "what are the chances of us surviving" line? The scene with April and Verne in the turtle's lair? There's so much stuff cut out!

HotNunchuckFury · 10-14-2014, 09:55 AM

I too would like to of seen/heard something of Hamato Yoshi, but I do like the Project Renaissance storyline regardless. I thought it was interesting to have something different, could definitely have been a lot worse.

Other than that I pretty much agree with every word you wrote!

*THGhost* · 10-14-2014, 02:33 PM

Did anyone else notice how the virus in the tower was completely forgotten about and never mentioned again once the tower had fallen? Nobody died from the gas? Major plot hole right there!

HotNunchuckFury · 10-14-2014, 03:08 PM

I just assumed the gas remained inside the container.

*TheSkeletonMan939* · 10-14-2014, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D Piddy 1982

> Cool that Karai is in it, and given plenty of screen time.

... She was? She was in the movie for like 90 seconds.

*Chris* · 10-14-2014, 04:46 PM

Just gonna copy what I posted in the original spoilers thread;

First thoughts - enjoyable enough way to pass an hour and a half but as a movie it was terrible. Three guys really got paid to write this?!

This film seriously fell into the same trap Man of Steel did - it was an origin film but it relied heavily on prior knowledge of the franchise and characters as the writers just didn't put the work in for this film.

"Taken your armour to the next level" - so? We never saw the original so it's not an upgrade at all as we have no comparison

"Remember that thing you used to say when we were kids?" - erm no because he never said it or tried to say it in the sequence where we see them as kids! Just having Mikey yell it would have been great as a tip of the hat to the fans, but Raph specifically references something we've not seen like it's meant to be a pay off for that unseen event.

Raph's speech - honestly I felt it was a little over the top but it would have been fine if they'd shown any of that stuff in the film, but they didn't. Raph says he's going to leave once and that's it. It relies on you knowing the characters already because they didn't put any effort in to develop the characters or have proper character arcs. It's meant to be the emotional payoff but there's no real character arc to justify it, they didn't put the groundwork in to earn it so it just feels forced and hollow.

The designs do look better in motion (or maybe I've just gotten used to them) but they're still not great. I joked when I first saw them that the TMNT were wearing their personalities so the writers didn't have to write them in. Sadly I wasn't far off. There were no character assassinations and everyone was "in character" but there was no real depth either. It never felt like it went past "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines". The run time is partly to blame for this, when you have 4 turtles, April, Splinter, Shredder and more all vying for screen time in a 90 minute movie someone is going to get the short straw but in this film it felt like everyone did. No one had a solid arc. The characters met up, had an adventure together and went home, that was it, there was no growth for anyone. April came closest with her wanting to be a real reporter rather than reporting on "froth" but that arc was dropped without any resolution.

Their new origin was beyond stupid. I'm fine with Sacks/Shredder being involved, I'm ok with April being there (nice IDW nod) but they were being injected with mutagen on a daily basis and only mutated after they left the lab? Really? April rescued the turtles and Splinter and then just let them go in the sewer?! What the heck?! Not only is that mind bogglingly stupid and makes no sense other than "well we needed to get them away from April and into the sewers" but it's also incredibly irresponsible of the writers, especially when they then say she "set them free". Great way to teach kids how to look after their pets, especially when you think about how many turtles were flushed during the 90s TMNT craze! Absolute idiots! The lab fire was incredibly unclear - did April's dad die in the fire or get shot by Sacks? If he died in the fire why did he commit suicide, why did he do it whilst April was there and why didn't he make sure all files were destroyed before burning himself to death? Sacks killing him makes more sense as it means he was interrupted in destroying the files but then why didn't April know Sacks was there or hear shots, why didn't Sacks know April was there and kill her? It's just a mess.

A mutated Splinter learning Ninjutsu from a book doesn't really ask any more suspension of disbelief that a pre-mutation Splinter mimicking Yoshi's moves so that doesn't really bother me (as others have said seeing it beats reading about it but you can easily argue that learning pre/post mutation cancels that out). However, the complete removal of Hamato Yoshi from the origin removes any real connection between Splinter and Shredder and with that it removes the driving force of their conflict. Here they fight simply because Splinter and the TMNT are the heroes and Shredder and The Foot are the villains. Even if Sacks had remained the Shredder there's still no real connection between the two, no cause for animosity. It's never personal and that's something it's always been in the past. I'm not against change but this one was not for the better, it just made it a more generic good guys vs bad guys conflict.

Which I guess brings me to Shredder. To be fair, whilst his design is over the top it's probably my favourite of the redesigns (Splinter is definitely the worst) and he's definitely felt like a powerful threat in the film. The guy playing him/voicing him is also fantastic, easily the best casting in the film. Sadly, the character is a mess because of the Sacks thing. I'm happy that they listened to the fans and scrapped the aliens script, but the white Shredder thing was different, at that point the script was done, casting complete and filming was taking place. At that point they were committed. If you know the history then it's obvious when you watch the film that Sacks was intended to be the Shredder and the Asian Shredder (who was never named) was added during the re-shoots after some hasty re-writing.

It's like they had no faith in their story. On one level I respect them for actually listening and trying to react to the criticisms, but if they couldn't do it without drastically affecting the narrative of the film they should have stuck to their guns or (as some fans said) introduced Saki in an epilogue or post-credits scene. By trying to paste him into the story they just messed up an already weak script even further. Sacks was clearly intended to be main villain, it's his plan, his company and by splitting the characters Shredder is reduced to simply being Sack's boss and the muscle for the fight scenes, he has no real character or motivation. They pretty much split 1 character into 2 to try and appease fans and the movie is worse for it. Karai also suffers as with Sacks now being Shredder's protege there's no real need for her character.

Logic takes some other pretty serious hits in this film too. April has a photo of the Turtles, is trying to convince her boss they exist but doesn't show her? Raph says he can't help as his shell is cracked so Don goes to help Leo, 30 seconds later Raph is smashing into vehicles using his cracked shell. They defeat Shredder using buck buck! Seriously? I get they wanted to show them doing it as a team but Shredder has been kicking their asses and defending against much more complex moves. They attacked him one at a time all on the same angle of attack, given the level of skill he'd already displayed in the fight there's no way that would have worked.

I'm sure there's more but those are the bits that really stuck out. Like I said at the start, I enjoyed it for what it was, it was fun to pass an hour and a half. I'm not even too disappointed, I went in expecting a big dumb popcorn blockbuster and I got one, sadly it was just even dumber than I was expecting. The worst part was that they just didn't try. It feels like they were trying to do something original with the alien script (bad as it was) and when fans rightfully complained they switched to a generic paint by numbers super hero movie approach, borrowing the docks scene from Batman Begins, the rooftop virus battle from Amazing Spider-Man and just adding the TMNT characters into the formula. There was no real emotion or heart to it and that's the worst thing of all.

Maybe I'm being unjustly harsh on the writers, maybe a lot of the issues come from them hacking it to pieces in the editing room to get that 90 minute run time and add in the Asian Shredder. After all, we know there's a lot of deleted scenes from this film, and it's obvious in the film where even more tweaks were made. I'd certainly be interested in seeing a Sacks as Shredder cut with all of the deleted scenes/original dialogue added back in. Given how fan reaction obviously had an impact on the direction of the film I can only hope that all of the criticisms fans are giving now will help shape the direction of the second for the better so the behind the scenes farce that was the production of this film doesn't happen again and we can have a stronger movie as a result.

D Piddy 1982 · 10-15-2014, 03:57 AM

Great piece there Chris.

Same point keeps coming up again and again...if only they had included a proper relationship between Shredder and Splinter, other errors could have been easier to swallow, but for me (and others) it seems the lack of any Shred/Splinter relationship was criminal.

It's illogical that lots of us are saying we enjoyed the movie, yet we can find so many bad points with it! Mad!

*THGhost* · 10-15-2014, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotNunchuckFury

I just assumed the gas remained inside the container.

But how?

*Galactus* · 10-15-2014, 07:05 PM

So I gave this a cinema watch mostly to see if my opinion altered any on seeing it on the big screen - it didn't.

However something jumped out at me that's kinda coincidental with the above discussion of the container not breaking; what is to stop Sacks and/or Shredder from just doing this all over again?

It's highly unlikely he will because they will inevitably want to do a different story in possible sequel but strictly speaking the Foot militia have the resources to build another tower and device to disseminate the disease and this time they have the advantage of the turtles and April not going after them to procure mutagen to save Splinter.

But they need mutagen to be the cure I hear you say? Ah but they had mutagen in their possession for long enough to analyze it (it still odd that no one else had a clue to make it. I get that April's father was the one who knew definitively how to make but did no one else at TCRI have a clue were to start? What were they doing for over a decade?) but we know they still as in the proposed sequel they want to use Bebop and Rocksteady.

10-13-2014, 03:51 AM	#1
D Piddy 1982 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 712	TMNT 2014 - Thoughts from UK viewers - SPOILERS Before I get shot down in flames – I’m setting up this thread for UK peeps to discuss their thoughts on the film as it has only just been released over here. Therefore this thread is bound to cover many comments and discussions already posted. However those threads are now 10’sof pages long so it’s very difficult to find any relevant comments for someone who has only just seen the film. So…if you aren’t UK based and don’t want to be bored / irritated by members covering old ground, don’t read any further! Also this thread WILL contain spoilers. My initial thoughts and comments on seeing it for the first time. Good points. > Amazing effects. > Personally I like the new Turtle designs. Splinter’s not so hot, Shredder is pretty badass. > Cool that Karai is in it, and given plenty of screen time. > I enjoyed the Turtles characters. > Will Arnett as Vern was a plus point. > Megan Fox wasn’t actually THAT bad! > Very entertaining. Snow chase was much better than I thought it was gonna be! > Fights scenes were pretty slick to be fair. Bad points. > I hated…HATED…the fact that Splinter and the Turtles have next to no relationship with Shredder. The only reason Shredder is even interested in the Turtles is because of the mutagen in their blood. > The fact that Splinter learnt Ninjitsu from a book. Self-taught. That is a terrible decision from the writers, TERRIBLE. (no wonder Shredder kicked all their assess). > It seemed to me that the only time we ever really saw the Turtles was when there was action. There were never really any scenes of them just chilling. For example in the original movie when Mike and Don are waiting for the pizza to be delivered. Yes there is the 99 Cheese Pizza scene but on the whole, the Turtles are only used for action (budget?). > Story was ridiculous. In the fact that The Foot (Shredder) apparently already ran the city. And Sacks also apparently had a lot of money (big mansion etc). So why did they even need to bother with trying to release the virus. Didn’t make sense. Would’ve made sense if Sacks was a struggling scientist and The Foot were a criminal organisation on the rise but not at the top. To me it seemed both Sacks and The Foot didn’t have much to gain from their ‘evil plan’. > In some ways Shredder didn’t even make sense. Why did he need to personally go to the Turtles liar? Why did he need to personally go to the rooftop and release the virus? How did he suddenly know the Turtles names (i.e. when Raph fights Shredder, he immediately knows it is Raphael). > Again more issues with the plot, what did Shredder even have to do with the mutagen tests that Sacks and April’s father carried out? The only link I can see is that Shredder raised Sacks as his own, but I can’t remember now why they said Shredder took Sacks under his wing? > Aprils dad burning down the lab. Killing himself. April coming out of nowhere to save the Turtles. What about her dad?! Why did her dad need to basically commit suicide? Couldn’t he have just burned the lab and escaped? Senseless…senseless writing. So infuriating that writers get paid to do this for a living and can’t even put together a basic plot or reasoning for any actions. Questions. > Why were The Foot/Sacks only interested in the Turtles and not Splinter? Did Splinter not also have mutagen running through his veins? > Was it ever mentioned what Karai’s relationship was with Shredder? I missed that if so… > One more…maybe I missed something again but…how did they survive the fall at the end? Pure luck? Despite all the negativity above and massive plot holes…and also complete trampling over the TMNT history and characters…I still actually enjoyed the film (if you just sit back and don’t think), and will probably go see it a second time. __________________ Twitter handle: @D_Piddy1982 " 'Hero Turtle' craze leads to duck deaths" BBC News 2001

10-13-2014, 04:31 AM	#2
joefsas Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dorset, uk Posts: 690	I pretty much agree with all of your bad points It's such a shame that this movie was let down by it's plot/story. That aside, i still think this was an amazing film and I enjoyed it emmensely. I was on the positive side of the fence from the beginning but it out did all of my expectations! Mikey was hilarious and i loved the close knit family vibe too. Would love to see this at the cinema again given the chance. In the meantime, does anyone know when this is likely to be released on dvd/bluray? EDIT: Third time iv'e said this i think lol. But I'm so gutted they cut the elevator scene short. I thought Leo headbanging was hilarious... Maybe we'll get a deleted scene on a dvd/bluray release? Fingers crossed lol __________________ WANTED: S.H.FIGUARTS LEONARDO BANDANA TAIL PIECE! Last edited by joefsas; 10-13-2014 at 04:43 AM.

10-14-2014, 09:14 AM	#12
THGhost Puppet Master Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: UK Posts: 2,825	Copy/pasted from the review thread: Loved it a lot! I knew I was going to like but I didn't expect to love it so much. I was really impressed with the CGI for the turtles and Splinter, the Shredder was such a badass both outside and inside his armour, Megan Fox was surprisingly okay as April too. Mikey was so darn hilarious despite his somewhat creepy crush on April. Is that a thing now? With each new version of TMNT, one of the turtles has to fancy April? Megan Fox's best line imho was when she screamed Raph's name while he fought the Shredder. She sounded genuinely distressed and was actually a good bit of acting on her part! Will Arnett and Whoopi Goldberg were okay, didn't really see the need to make Burne a woman though. Once it got going, the movie itself was very relentless with its set-pieces which I think worked in its favour. The excitement never stopped and I think kids will love that - I did and I'm a fully grown man. Even my girlfriend loved it and she's not a big TMNT fan like I am. One thing I didn't like - no mention of Hamato Yoshi. That entire backstory was completely replaced with the whole "Project Renaissance" thing, with April knowing the turtles since she was a child. I found it extremely desperate and contrived that she would know them before their mutation and know who they are as teenagers. The best parts of the movie were, obviously, the scenes with the turtles. They're bloody awesome from both an entertaining standpoint and a technical standpoint. They look amazing, especially in 3D. I don't understand the praise for April's roommate. She was barely in it and wasn't funny at all. It also would have been nice for Karai to have had some actual character development. Other than her name and that she works with the Foot Clan, we found out nothing about her. What happened to the scenes with the turtles wearing trench coats in the streets? The "what are the chances of us surviving" line? The scene with April and Verne in the turtle's lair? There's so much stuff cut out! __________________ - - - 1990 > OotS > TMNT 2014 > Turtles Forever > TMNT III > SotO > TMNT 2007 "Can't we all just get along?" - pennydreadful "...bitchy people are what make fan forums insufferable when they don't need to be." - B-Man "Act like freakin' adults for goodness sake." - Jester "Tough guys with tiny voices." - Commenter 42

10-14-2014, 02:33 PM	#14
THGhost Puppet Master Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: UK Posts: 2,825	Did anyone else notice how the virus in the tower was completely forgotten about and never mentioned again once the tower had fallen? Nobody died from the gas? Major plot hole right there! __________________ - - - 1990 > OotS > TMNT 2014 > Turtles Forever > TMNT III > SotO > TMNT 2007 "Can't we all just get along?" - pennydreadful "...bitchy people are what make fan forums insufferable when they don't need to be." - B-Man "Act like freakin' adults for goodness sake." - Jester "Tough guys with tiny voices." - Commenter 42

10-15-2014, 03:57 AM	#18
D Piddy 1982 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 712	Great piece there Chris. Same point keeps coming up again and again...if only they had included a proper relationship between Shredder and Splinter, other errors could have been easier to swallow, but for me (and others) it seems the lack of any Shred/Splinter relationship was criminal. It's illogical that lots of us are saying we enjoyed the movie, yet we can find so many bad points with it! Mad! __________________ Twitter handle: @D_Piddy1982 " 'Hero Turtle' craze leads to duck deaths" BBC News 2001

10-13-2014, 05:35 AM	#3
HotNunchuckFury Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2014 Location: UK Posts: 160	I loved it! No surprises there. Agree with all your plus points, Megan Fox surprised me big time and I actually like her as April. I think learning ninjitsu from a book is about as believable as a pet rat imitating moves in his cage, but then that's why I've always preferred it when Splinter is Hamato Yoshi. Just makes it easier to believe for me. During Sach's talk to the turtles in his lab, didn't he say something about wanting even more money and power? I'm thinking world domination, not just NYC. Sachs also revealed to April and Vern that he killed April's father when he discovered the truth. I think they survived the fall because it was broken by buildings and they were inside that structure that stayed in one piece. I too would like to see more of a backstory that further links Shredder to Splinter and the Turtles. It's something they could add to in the sequel, so hopefully we'll get that. I definitely want to see more downtime in the lair, or a training session with Splinter. I felt the scene where they were given their weapons and masks was very rushed and would liked to have seen more of that. Definitely happy that Karai was in it quite a bit but would like to see her given more dialogue next time and a bigger role in the story overall. But as I said, I loved it. The tone of the film was spot on, as were the personalities of the characters and the relationships between them (excluding Shredder). I like the retelling of the origin, reminiscent of IDW but better in the sense that they grew up in the sewers rather than just mutating into teenagers. I would liked it to of been longer, but my 6 year old exclaimed "That was the longest film I've ever seen!" so perhaps they judged that right too when aiming at such a wide audience. Hoping to see it again next weekend I'm pretty sure the DVD is due before Christmas and I'm betting the full elevator scene will be there somewhere in its full glory Thanks for the thread btw, think we need it!

10-13-2014, 06:42 AM	#6
HotNunchuckFury Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2014 Location: UK Posts: 160	Oh ok, sorry.

10-14-2014, 09:55 AM	#13
HotNunchuckFury Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2014 Location: UK Posts: 160	I too would like to of seen/heard something of Hamato Yoshi, but I do like the Project Renaissance storyline regardless. I thought it was interesting to have something different, could definitely have been a lot worse. Other than that I pretty much agree with every word you wrote!

10-14-2014, 03:08 PM	#15
HotNunchuckFury Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2014 Location: UK Posts: 160	I just assumed the gas remained inside the container.

10-14-2014, 04:46 PM	#17
Chris Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,898	Just gonna copy what I posted in the original spoilers thread; First thoughts - enjoyable enough way to pass an hour and a half but as a movie it was terrible. Three guys really got paid to write this?! This film seriously fell into the same trap Man of Steel did - it was an origin film but it relied heavily on prior knowledge of the franchise and characters as the writers just didn't put the work in for this film. "Taken your armour to the next level" - so? We never saw the original so it's not an upgrade at all as we have no comparison "Remember that thing you used to say when we were kids?" - erm no because he never said it or tried to say it in the sequence where we see them as kids! Just having Mikey yell it would have been great as a tip of the hat to the fans, but Raph specifically references something we've not seen like it's meant to be a pay off for that unseen event. Raph's speech - honestly I felt it was a little over the top but it would have been fine if they'd shown any of that stuff in the film, but they didn't. Raph says he's going to leave once and that's it. It relies on you knowing the characters already because they didn't put any effort in to develop the characters or have proper character arcs. It's meant to be the emotional payoff but there's no real character arc to justify it, they didn't put the groundwork in to earn it so it just feels forced and hollow. The designs do look better in motion (or maybe I've just gotten used to them) but they're still not great. I joked when I first saw them that the TMNT were wearing their personalities so the writers didn't have to write them in. Sadly I wasn't far off. There were no character assassinations and everyone was "in character" but there was no real depth either. It never felt like it went past "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines". The run time is partly to blame for this, when you have 4 turtles, April, Splinter, Shredder and more all vying for screen time in a 90 minute movie someone is going to get the short straw but in this film it felt like everyone did. No one had a solid arc. The characters met up, had an adventure together and went home, that was it, there was no growth for anyone. April came closest with her wanting to be a real reporter rather than reporting on "froth" but that arc was dropped without any resolution. Their new origin was beyond stupid. I'm fine with Sacks/Shredder being involved, I'm ok with April being there (nice IDW nod) but they were being injected with mutagen on a daily basis and only mutated after they left the lab? Really? April rescued the turtles and Splinter and then just let them go in the sewer?! What the heck?! Not only is that mind bogglingly stupid and makes no sense other than "well we needed to get them away from April and into the sewers" but it's also incredibly irresponsible of the writers, especially when they then say she "set them free". Great way to teach kids how to look after their pets, especially when you think about how many turtles were flushed during the 90s TMNT craze! Absolute idiots! The lab fire was incredibly unclear - did April's dad die in the fire or get shot by Sacks? If he died in the fire why did he commit suicide, why did he do it whilst April was there and why didn't he make sure all files were destroyed before burning himself to death? Sacks killing him makes more sense as it means he was interrupted in destroying the files but then why didn't April know Sacks was there or hear shots, why didn't Sacks know April was there and kill her? It's just a mess. A mutated Splinter learning Ninjutsu from a book doesn't really ask any more suspension of disbelief that a pre-mutation Splinter mimicking Yoshi's moves so that doesn't really bother me (as others have said seeing it beats reading about it but you can easily argue that learning pre/post mutation cancels that out). However, the complete removal of Hamato Yoshi from the origin removes any real connection between Splinter and Shredder and with that it removes the driving force of their conflict. Here they fight simply because Splinter and the TMNT are the heroes and Shredder and The Foot are the villains. Even if Sacks had remained the Shredder there's still no real connection between the two, no cause for animosity. It's never personal and that's something it's always been in the past. I'm not against change but this one was not for the better, it just made it a more generic good guys vs bad guys conflict. Which I guess brings me to Shredder. To be fair, whilst his design is over the top it's probably my favourite of the redesigns (Splinter is definitely the worst) and he's definitely felt like a powerful threat in the film. The guy playing him/voicing him is also fantastic, easily the best casting in the film. Sadly, the character is a mess because of the Sacks thing. I'm happy that they listened to the fans and scrapped the aliens script, but the white Shredder thing was different, at that point the script was done, casting complete and filming was taking place. At that point they were committed. If you know the history then it's obvious when you watch the film that Sacks was intended to be the Shredder and the Asian Shredder (who was never named) was added during the re-shoots after some hasty re-writing. It's like they had no faith in their story. On one level I respect them for actually listening and trying to react to the criticisms, but if they couldn't do it without drastically affecting the narrative of the film they should have stuck to their guns or (as some fans said) introduced Saki in an epilogue or post-credits scene. By trying to paste him into the story they just messed up an already weak script even further. Sacks was clearly intended to be main villain, it's his plan, his company and by splitting the characters Shredder is reduced to simply being Sack's boss and the muscle for the fight scenes, he has no real character or motivation. They pretty much split 1 character into 2 to try and appease fans and the movie is worse for it. Karai also suffers as with Sacks now being Shredder's protege there's no real need for her character. Logic takes some other pretty serious hits in this film too. April has a photo of the Turtles, is trying to convince her boss they exist but doesn't show her? Raph says he can't help as his shell is cracked so Don goes to help Leo, 30 seconds later Raph is smashing into vehicles using his cracked shell. They defeat Shredder using buck buck! Seriously? I get they wanted to show them doing it as a team but Shredder has been kicking their asses and defending against much more complex moves. They attacked him one at a time all on the same angle of attack, given the level of skill he'd already displayed in the fight there's no way that would have worked. I'm sure there's more but those are the bits that really stuck out. Like I said at the start, I enjoyed it for what it was, it was fun to pass an hour and a half. I'm not even too disappointed, I went in expecting a big dumb popcorn blockbuster and I got one, sadly it was just even dumber than I was expecting. The worst part was that they just didn't try. It feels like they were trying to do something original with the alien script (bad as it was) and when fans rightfully complained they switched to a generic paint by numbers super hero movie approach, borrowing the docks scene from Batman Begins, the rooftop virus battle from Amazing Spider-Man and just adding the TMNT characters into the formula. There was no real emotion or heart to it and that's the worst thing of all. Maybe I'm being unjustly harsh on the writers, maybe a lot of the issues come from them hacking it to pieces in the editing room to get that 90 minute run time and add in the Asian Shredder. After all, we know there's a lot of deleted scenes from this film, and it's obvious in the film where even more tweaks were made. I'd certainly be interested in seeing a Sacks as Shredder cut with all of the deleted scenes/original dialogue added back in. Given how fan reaction obviously had an impact on the direction of the film I can only hope that all of the criticisms fans are giving now will help shape the direction of the second for the better so the behind the scenes farce that was the production of this film doesn't happen again and we can have a stronger movie as a result.

10-15-2014, 07:05 PM	#20
Galactus Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,008	So I gave this a cinema watch mostly to see if my opinion altered any on seeing it on the big screen - it didn't. However something jumped out at me that's kinda coincidental with the above discussion of the container not breaking; what is to stop Sacks and/or Shredder from just doing this all over again? It's highly unlikely he will because they will inevitably want to do a different story in possible sequel but strictly speaking the Foot militia have the resources to build another tower and device to disseminate the disease and this time they have the advantage of the turtles and April not going after them to procure mutagen to save Splinter. But they need mutagen to be the cure I hear you say? Ah but they had mutagen in their possession for long enough to analyze it (it still odd that no one else had a clue to make it. I get that April's father was the one who knew definitively how to make but did no one else at TCRI have a clue were to start? What were they doing for over a decade?) but we know they still as in the proposed sequel they want to use Bebop and Rocksteady.