TMNT II - thoughts on it?

[Misfit]

I just now re-watched TMNT II and it really hit me for the first time that I actually DON'T like this movie.

There's so many things I find wrong with it.

- Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April
- No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place.
- Much less realistic turtle costumes
- Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too.
- Tokka and Razor were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?
- Keno was really, REALLY annoying.
- Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it? Bah.
- Horrible cartoon sound effects.
- Shockingly cheesy and goofy, and not good in the old toon way but stupid and (in fear of being repetitive with my wording), lame.

I am so tempted to just throw out my tapes of TMNT II and the even worse TMNT III. The first movie is a genuis work of art that's to be treasured for a life time...but the sequels? What a big steaming pile of *bleep*. Never should've been made or at least should've been handled with the same quality, care and respect the first movie got.

What's everyone's thoughts?

[Karpo_007]

My toughts exactly. You forgot the total lack of weapons. Most popular theory is that parents complained about the first movie, saying it's to violent etc. So New Line decided to do this cheesy kids film instead of a real sequel.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I agree with all that you said NinjaGirl. Except one thing...
I liked Tokka and Rahzar.

Anyway, isn't it weird that it took so long to notice how bad TMNT 2 was?
I never liked TMNT 3 from the start but, I liked TMNT 2 until, the first time I saw it after the TMNT's disappearance.

[Misfit]

Oh yeah the lack of weapon's is another thing to add to the list. Also the less realistic and cartoony like fighting. Like the opening scene in the toy store for example.

The martial arts in the first flick were awesome...here? Forget it.

[Karpo_007]

Well I too liked the movie as a kid, I guess it works for children.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I Guess.
That's about the only way I could figure it.

[Jephael]

I just wanted to make an attempt to defend the sequal here by stating my feelings towards what NinjaGirl said before.

"Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April."

It's not the first time an actor has been replaced. Judith obviously wasn't available for the part. It threw me for a loop back in the day, but now that I'm old enough to understand, it doesn't phase me.

"No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place."

I read somewhere that he reminded people too much of Jason from Friday the 13th. It is ashame they had to forget about him like that.

"Much less realistic turtle costumes"

I liked the costumes. They were just as realistic as the ones from the first flick.

"Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too."

People do **** like that all the time in movies. It's basic movie logic, really.

"Tokka and Rahzar were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?"

Eastman and Laird didn't want that, so they settled to have 2 different bumbling mutants. Atleast Tokka and Rahzar put up a much better fight against the turtles than Rocksteady and Bebop.

"Keno was really, REALLY annoying."

This I agree with. He barely had any real purpose for being in the movie.

"Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it?"

Ummm.... no comment.

"Horrible cartoon sound effects."

Where were there any cartoonish sound effects?

[Dane E5R]

Gonna have to disagree with ya Jeph, the costumes in the 2nd had much brighter colors and uh..Bug eyes. Especially Donatello.

Another gripe to add to the list..

Leonardo is struggling to break free of a net..When he's got two swords strapped to his back. What, were they afraid kids world wide were gonna start attacking nets?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

GEEZ, Jeph! we're having so much fun bitching and you go and ruin it for us!!
I'm Just Kidding!
Your opinions are as valid as ours!

No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place."

I read somewhere that he reminded people too much of Jason from Friday the 13th. It is ashame they had to forget about him like that.

I can't believe the filmmakers were dumb enough to listen to the focus groups on that one! (or anything else!)

[Raven]

I would have to agree with every thing you said, but I also liked tokka and rahzor. I dont know why though.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by TetsuDeinonychus

GEEZ, Jeph! we're having so much fun bitching and you go and ruin it for us!!
I'm Just Kidding!
Your opinions are as valid as ours!

That's the best part about these discussions. The people who liked a certain flick/show defend it against the people who bitch about it.

Originally Posted by Elite5Raph

Leonardo is struggling to break free of a net..When he's got two swords strapped to his back. What, were they afraid kids world wide were gonna start attacking nets?

Maybe he couldn't reach his swords, cause there wasn't enough elbow room. I remember the same thing happening in an ep of the toon.

[Leo656]

I also loved the flick as a kid, not so much now. I still don't despise it or anything.

Paige Turco replacing the perfect Judith Hoag as April

I thought Paige was a lot hotter, and that's about my only criteria, so I liked her April a lot better.

No Casey Jones...they treat the character like he never even existed in the first place.

THAT pissed me off.

Much less realistic turtle costumes

Never really noticed.

Shredder's return - I didn't buy it that anyone would survive Shredder's fall...especially since he got CRUSHED in that garbage truck too.

It wan't THAT unrealistic. B'sides, not a lot of kids (which were like 90% of the TMNT audience at that time) would have cared about the movie if Shredder wasn't in it. Kinda like how nobody cared when TMNT III came out.

Tokka and Razor were as lame as Hell. Why them and not good old Bebop and Rocksteady?

Yeah, that was pretty dumb I thought. If you were gonna use dumb mutants, at least use dumb mutants people would recognize. The only thing I can figure is "new characters = new toys to sell".

Keno was really, REALLY annoying.

I'll drink to that. I'd trade him for Casey in a heartbeat. All the martial arts kicks in the world won't do jack against a pissed-off psycho with a hockey stick.

Excrucatingly lame script. The TMNTs dancing in a Night Club with, of all people, Vanilla Ice? The same Ninja Turtles who in the first movie were all for completely secrecy of their existance fighting and dancing openly in front of dozens of people and making no attempts to conceal themselves or anything and even worse, Splinter finding it FUNNY when he learns of it? Bah.

Without a doubt THE worst part of the entire TMNT Trilogy. Again, it was all about the kids at that point.

Horrible cartoon sound effects.

Again, never noticed.

Shockingly cheesy and goofy, and not good in the old toon way but stupid and (in fear of being repetitive with my wording), lame.

That's open to interpretation. I thought it was plausible all the way up until the dumb stuff at the end with the nightclub.

However, I can look past all the bad because it all lead up to.... KEVIN F*CKING NASH as Super-Shredder, arguably THE best thing out of all the Turtles movies. If it's Nash, it's gold. Especially since his part in the film got him more attention from the suits at WCW, who gave him more screen time, so he could jump to the WWF as Shawn Michaels' bodyguard and eventually win the World Title, then jump to WCW and form the nWo, then win their World Title, then jump back to the WWF, get a haircut and have a part in the new Punisher movie.

So as you can see, the most important events in the history of the universe all begin - and end - with Kevin Nash. His very prescence saves TMNT II from being ALL bad, since nothing with the Nash Seal of Approval could ever be truly bad.

As for TMNT III, I thought it was more corny and boring than truly bad. The costumes were pretty cheap, though. Casey being back was good, but it loses points because he didn't fight and Nash wasn't involved.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I liked the concept of Super Shredder, but NOT the execution.

It should have been more mystical and supernatural instead of a mutation and turning into a berzerker muscle-head isn't very "super" to me. He should have attained more agility and not lost his intelligence and maybe shoot energy projectiles!

[Leo656]

But it still should have been Kevin Nash.

I've long maintained that TMNT II should have ended with Super-Shredder no-selling everything the Turtles threw at him, then Jackknife Power Bombing each of them off the pier and into the water. He would then take off his mask and talk to the audience in a "shoot" for the next fifteen minutes, telling them that "Wolfpac in the house!" and saying "the only thing real about this business is the money", then going off in a tangent and making insider references nobody in the audience understands and shout-outs to Shawn Michaels. He proceeds to talk straight through the credits until he is cut off by the screen fading to black. Then the letters "n-W-o" would appear in red spraypaint across the screen as "Don't Turn your Back on the Wolfpac" played.

Cuz if you're gonna use Kevin Nash, you just gotta let him cut loose, ya nah'mean?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Well, that would be better than the ending they used!

[GK Punk]

It would also have been brilliant if bebop and Rocksteady were played by Sean Waltman(Syxx/X-pac) and Scott Hall.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

They should have toned it down even further removing ALL violence from the movie, then they should have put Kala the neutrino in it, and have a REALLY explicit "adult" scene between her and Mike just to get reactions from the parents groups!

[Krangfan]

Personally, I liked #2 the best out of all three movies (I liked all three btw). C'mon guys, it WAS after all made mainly for kids, (heh, maybe that's why I like it, at age 15 I'm still considered a kid right... RIGHT?!) I agree Keno was annoying, and the lack of weapons was kinda lame. The way I look at it is this: if you want a good story with a lite sprinkling of humor and some good old fashion action: watch the first movie. If you want something to laugh at and have a good time with humourous cartoony action (gotta love that opening sequecne when they're using the yo-yo's and other toys) and stuff: watch the second movie (I always like to watch it when I'm feeling sad or something). If you want lots of action, a pretty good story, and some humor, watch the third movie. Tokka and Rahzar I thought were cool, and I think the voices for Raph and Don were best in the second movie. The way I look at it is, you hafta watch Secret of the Ooze with a younger person's view in mind, kick back and just enjoy the witty antics of four pizza loving turtles!

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

....and Kevin Nash.




I still say a Neutrino sex-scene would have saved that movie!

[Dane E5R]

LOL!!! I just got your nWo joke, GK. I was sittin' here gettin' riled up cuz Bebop is black. If X-Pac was in that movie, that would've definitely earned it 1000 cool points in my head.