Should the series end at season 5?

[Mugic]

With all the money TMNT has been making for Nick, it wouldn't be a surprise if show ends up running for 10+ seasons like Spongbob has but Ciro himself said he doesn't know where to go with the series after season five,sure the quality may not begin to decline right away with the sixth season but eventually if the series goes on too long episodes will become uninspiring when they run out of ideas or they'll jumping the shark and put us in another Red Sky/Fast Forward situation.

[Sabacooza]

If Ciro doesn't know where to take it after season 5 then he's not trying hard enough. There's still loads of material to pull from. Also, as long as they keep on bringing in good new writers with fresh ideas, it could go on for quite a while but yes, it could get stale.

[senpai]

I hope not. There's so much to do with this series! Go read some comics, Nick, then get back to us! Man, if this series begins to suck I will be so sad.

[TigerClaw]

I doubt it, There is so much stuff in the comics that the show can take from.

[evan2000]

Not to mention fan works. There are lots of genuinely good ones out there.

I mean, lots of content and design language of the 2012 series came from Ciro's own "fan work" right?

[neatoman]

For all we know it could end with season 4.

[senpai]

Originally Posted by neatoman

For all we know it could end with season 4.

I don't think that's likely. There's so much that still needs to be resolved. And given the leisurely pace of the show, it will be a while before they wrap it up.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by senpai

I don't think that's likely. There's so much that still needs to be resolved. And given the leisurely pace of the show, it will be a while before they wrap it up.

Considering that they wrapped up the whole Kraang thing, which lasted two and a half season, in about two episodes I'm pretty sure they could wrap everything up in season 4 if they wanted to.

[CyberCubed]

Anyone who thinks the show won't make at least 7 seasons and 150+ episodes is kidding themselves.

The 4kids series didn't even have a fraction of the ratings the Nick cartoon does and it managed to go on for 7 years with 156 episodes AND a movie. I'm also pretty sure toy sales are also better now than they were in the 4kids era.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by senpai

I don't think that's likely. There's so much that still needs to be resolved. And given the leisurely pace of the show, it will be a while before they wrap it up.

Which they could easily do in just one or two episodes, of which they have done at times. They got rid of the Kraang, so I'm thinking Season 3's finale will be full demutation of Karai and possibly a vision quest for her if they want to show her mother. Season 4's mid season might be Dark Raph (since Shredder no longer has Karai) with Season 4 finale will be the final ending of Shredder and his henchmen, with episodes before that showing the various de-mutations of allied/neutral mutated humans and dangerous animals (along with going back to the farmhouse one last time to deal with Creep and Turducken.)

The biggest clue is that there has been no announcement for Season 5, especially as we had news for 3 and 4 at least one-two seasons prior. Plus this show's original target audience (7 year olds) will be turning 11 years old when Season 4 runs, so unless they plan on doing darker and edgier to try and keep them going at 12 and 13, they might just wrap it up then and then start a new show in about 2 years.

[sdp]

While the show may have better ratings it's also on a channel that expects better ratings than say 4Kids. Also TMNT was more of a pet project for 4Kids to offer something superhero related and subsidized by licensing deals (which is also true for Nick).

But yeah the show will also continue whether Ciro wants to or not, they'll just hire another guy, you can argue if that's good or bad but that's how things are. It's all up to what Nick wants they don't care about the storylines, they'll cancel the show with cliffhangers without second thoughts or renew the show even if all things have been resolved.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm also pretty sure toy sales are also better now than they were in the 4kids era.

do you have toy sales data? If not it's just rampant speculation.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

The biggest clue is that there has been no announcement for Season 5, especially as we had news for 3 and 4 at least one-two seasons prior. Plus this show's original target audience (7 year olds) will be turning 11 years old when Season 4 runs, so unless they plan on doing darker and edgier to try and keep them going at 12 and 13, they might just wrap it up then and then start a new show in about 2 years.

Why would they wrap up this show just to start a different TMNT show in 2 years? That makes no sense at all.

[senpai]

I have to agree with CyberCubed. Basing the target audience at 7 years old because it's Y7 means nothing. I have 5 nieces and nephews between the ages of 4-10 who enjoy the ninja turtles. If you're gonna talk about the children as an audience, I'll be honest with you, they kinda don't care what goes on in the show. They watch it for fun and out of order because they're kids and have short attention spans.

[Tarris Vaal]

The biggest clue is that there has been no announcement for Season 5, especially as we had news for 3 and 4 at least one-two seasons prior. Plus this show's original target audience (7 year olds) will be turning 11 years old when Season 4 runs, so unless they plan on doing darker and edgier to try and keep them going at 12 and 13, they might just wrap it up then and then start a new show in about 2 years.

It seems a possibility that Nick could do what Harry Potter did and grow the characters up along with their target demographic. We know already that the Turtles have experienced a similar passage of time to the seasons themselves (several mentions of 'last couple of years' or 'last year', etc, etc) The Turtles are presumably growing up on screen, so it could easily be done. The show could then move onto late teenage/young adult Turtles, keeping just ahead of its demographic target.

As for how to do that, more complex and darker storylines seem a good idea, coupled with more 'grown up' themes like a stronger focus on prejudice, responsibility, risks of excess, relationships (romantic or otherwise) etc, etc. Its certainly doable, but I can see what Ciro means if the show were to be expected to keep its characters capped at a certain age range (and the show capped at a specific young demographic). There is only so much you can sensibly do without scraping the barrel.

I guess it could be possible to run 2 shows concurrently (with the 'older' Turtles show aimed at young teenagers and a fresh show aimed at the original younger kids demographic), but as its primarily to drive toy sales, they might have to broaden their marketing a bit to keep the appeal for an older audience (computer games/card games maybe? - At least they have the movie tie in potential)


As for ideas how to continue, I think it largely depends where the show ends up at the end of Ciro's planned story arc. There are certainly villains that can replace Shredder as the primary threat - and would work with older demographics, but I suspect anyone watching the show throughout would probably start to accuse it of 'jumping the shark' once Shredder is vanquished.



Maybe what Ciro should do is request Nick do a 'successor series' that follows the original Nicktoon characters but further down the line (1 year in show hiatus from the end of season 5 maybe?) Let Nick maintain a newly rebooted young kids show, but in the meantime do maybe 4-6 episode mini series maintaining Nicktoons continuity and playing with other villains and concepts like HAVOK, Armaggon or Old Hob?

[matteso586]

We don't know if there's going to be a 5th season or not.

[Powder]

So long as the team continues to put their own new content alongside that of Archie & Mirage, they could go on forever with a fairly consistent quality.

[IndigoErth]

No, Turtles, you're not allowed to leave me... esp not that soon. Only if you pick up another TMNT series a little while later, like a spin off that freshens it up and continues with older characters.

Just keep browsing through all the content inspiration. Be innovative and offer fans a way to submit decent ideas/thoughts (not necessarily full fanfic however...) to toss onto the table in the brain storming room. (Of course with the agreement that they relinquish rights to the idea and their name will not be included - however they will still have bragging rights among other fans that they "came up with that.")

[Bauer536]

I have a feeling the fourth season will be the last.

However, a fifth season would be just fine. I don't know about more.

They're are shows that can go on for a long time, but I don't think this one will. Playmates' toys quality has dropped, the story is kind of being rushed, and it's like kids have no clue when this show is on.

I'm not sure what's going on, but Nick is probably done with this adaptation. Since the majority of material they have is downright ridiculous, they don't care anymore. They want to make sure, however, that the show ends with a bang and a long lasting impact.

Now, think about this. Batman: The Animated Series didn't have that many seasons, but it is called a classic cartoon today. 2k3 TMNT might have had seven seasons, but be honest. Not many liked Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers.

To me, it's not about quantity. It's about quality. If the TMNT has 4 or 5 seasons, all that matters is if the stories make an impact. If there are more seasons (let's say 7), it could end up being like the worst two seasons of the show (like Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers). Do we want that again? Think about Heroes. There were four seasons of that show, but most fans liked the first season. By the writer's strike, the series went downhill, and nobody cared. Hopefully, they can fix things with Heroes Reborn.

I'd say whenever it ends, it ends. However, it should NOT end with a cliffhanger. Nobody should be unprepared for cancelation.

[Tarris Vaal]

To me, it's not about quantity. It's about quality.

Actually, there is a lot of truth in that. Better to end on a high note than linger and fall - for those of us that remember it, you need look no further than Babylon 5 as a good example.
4 Seasons effectively finished and wrapped up the entire show and it was comfortably a classic. Then it was given an unexpected extra season and a spin off. Those extra seasons were an utter joke and basically ruined the legacy of the show.


Actually, an interesting thought; If the show was cancelled (either season 4,5 or even just pulled unexpectedly), what would the Nicktoons legacy be for the Turtles franchise? What would it be remembered for leaving a lasting influence, and what do you think would just quietly be swept under the rug in future iterations?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

I have a feeling the fourth season will be the last.

However, a fifth season would be just fine. I don't know about more.

They're are shows that can go on for a long time, but I don't think this one will. Playmates' toys quality has dropped, the story is kind of being rushed, and it's like kids have no clue when this show is on.

I'm not sure what's going on, but Nick is probably done with this adaptation. Since the majority of material they have is downright ridiculous, they don't care anymore. They want to make sure, however, that the show ends with a bang and a long lasting impact.

Now, think about this. Batman: The Animated Series didn't have that many seasons, but it is called a classic cartoon today. 2k3 TMNT might have had seven seasons, but be honest. Not many liked Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers.

To me, it's not about quantity. It's about quality. If the TMNT has 4 or 5 seasons, all that matters is if the stories make an impact. If there are more seasons (let's say 7), it could end up being like the worst two seasons of the show (like Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers). Do we want that again? Think about Heroes. There were four seasons of that show, but most fans liked the first season. By the writer's strike, the series went downhill, and nobody cared. Hopefully, they can fix things with Heroes Reborn.

I'd say whenever it ends, it ends. However, it should NOT end with a cliffhanger. Nobody should be unprepared for cancelation.

Been meaning to jump on this threat, but I think you've made a pretty good case.

This isn't the 90's anymore; we shouldn't be expecting a cartoon to limp on to 10 seasons. Shorter is potentially better, if a writing team's ultimate vision can be satisfied.

I would argue that the 2003 cartoon was only able to successfully produce 4 seasons to stick to its original vision, and I'll even give way to the majority of you who liked Season 5. But Seasons 6 and 7 were simply reinventing the franchise with flashy colors and poor planning to try to eke out more toy sales. It was not rebranding the franchise successfully as Batman TAS did with its final season (new character designs, new art style, same progression of story and character).

For Nick to successfully end its cartoon run, Karai must be reunited with the Hamato clan and April's parentage must be resolved. And honestly, d***ing around in Northampton with a bunch of standalone stories for the first half of Season 3 was not well thought out from the standpoint of progressing the overall story.

And like you said, DO NOT GET CAUGHT WITH YOUR PANTS DOWN if you get cancelled. For the love of all that is holy, that is the worst thing a show can do...