No magic and aliens in the first two movies

TurtleFan2012 · 05-31-2015, 05:16 PM

You guys think leaving out aliens and fantasy elements was a good thing?

To be honest I'm glad they removed the utrom twist from TMNT 2: Secret of the Ooze. I like how everything is set in the "real world" (ignoring the whole mutagen thing). The first movie teaches kids to stay out of trouble and not join gangs.

*CyberCubed* · 05-31-2015, 11:19 PM

Most comic book films tend to be relatively grounded so they can appeal to a mass audience. Put all this sci-fi stuff in right off the bat and you'll alienate casuals.

They usually save that stuff for sequels.

*Candy Kappa* · 06-01-2015, 12:28 AM

Splinter appearing in the fireplace during the "ninja meditation" was not magic?

*TigerClaw* · 06-01-2015, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

You guys think leaving out aliens and fantasy elements was a good thing?

To be honest I'm glad they removed the utrom twist from TMNT 2: Secret of the Ooze. I like how everything is set in the "real world" (ignoring the whole mutagen thing). The first movie teaches kids to stay out of trouble and not join gangs.

The Magic and Alien stuff are a staple of the comics, Fortunately the sequel that's currently filming, Will have Krang in it, Maybe they left it out of Secret of the Ooze, Due to the budget.

*Shark_Blade* · 06-01-2015, 06:49 AM

Yes the over abundance of those two elements made 2k3 cheesy, bad and unenjoyable imo.

Goodbye bad stuff.

*ProactiveMan* · 06-01-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

The first movie teaches kids to stay out of trouble and not join gangs.

Nice and simple. I was talking to someone at work about this last week. 2014 Shredder has this crazy plan about gassing the city from the roof of a skyscraper, then curing them with alien goo for some reason. 1990 Shredder just wants to steal some TVs. That's something we can all relate to.

*plastroncafe* · 06-01-2015, 09:41 PM

Yes. We shouldn't put in any Science Fiction elements because that'll drive people away.

Like...a guy building a mech out of scraps in a cave.
Or scientists making a serum that would turn a chronically ill guy into a super soldier.
Or aliens from other dimensions that wield magically powered hammers.
And you know what movie tanked at the box office that no one liked? That one with the talking raccoon and tree.

We all know aliens and science fiction do not make money at the box office.

*TigerClaw* · 06-01-2015, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Yes. We shouldn't put in any Science Fiction elements because that'll drive people away.

Like...a guy building a mech out of scraps in a cave.
Or scientists making a serum that would turn a chronically ill guy into a super soldier.
Or aliens from other dimensions that wield magically powered hammers.
And you know what movie tanked at the box office that no one liked? That one with the talking raccoon and tree.

We all know aliens and science fiction do not make money at the box office.

I see what you did there.

And yeah, Science Fiction is really popular, It will get people to the theater, And TMNT had its share of Scifi, and I wanna see that explored in the new movies.

~~Leo656~~ · 06-01-2015, 10:01 PM

This is what I mean when I get all "Elitist" and point out the Very True Fact that people in general do NOT have any idea what they really want. They SAY they like one thing, but in truth they like something different. They contradict themselves *constantly*. Especially TMNT fans!

TMNT is a science fiction story. Period. The first issue, maybe not so much, but the Very Next Story involved a mad scientist trying to take over the city with an army of killer robots. And like 5 minutes after THAT, you had alien dinosaurs and a guy who put his consciousness into a robot body. And THEN you have demons, time travel, "dreamscapes", parallel realities... I could go ON and ON, all the way into Vol. 4... not to MENTION, the entire story hinges on the idea that some chemical refuse could co-mingle and alter a creature's DNA, bone and organ structure, and give them sentience and speech. Which is f***ing stupidly impossible!

Do the math. TMNT is a "gritty tale of two warring ninja clans, an angsty and realistic tale of street-level warfare", like, 25% of the time. The OTHER 75% of the time, it's a wacky showcase of sci-fi "What-the-F***-ery". Thus, TMNT is, for the MOST part, a science fiction story.

People missed that? Really? You let that really important part of that thing you "love" go over your heads entirely? WOW. Read more.

*TigerClaw* · 06-01-2015, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

This is what I mean when I get all "Elitist" and point out the Very True Fact that people in general do NOT have any idea what they really want. They SAY they like one thing, but in truth they like something different. They contradict themselves *constantly*. Especially TMNT fans!

TMNT is a science fiction story. Period. The first issue, maybe not so much, but the Very Next Story involved a mad scientist trying to take over the city with an army of killer robots. And like 5 minutes after THAT, you had alien dinosaurs and a guy who put his consciousness into a robot body. And THEN you have demons, time travel, "dreamscapes", parallel realities... I could go ON and ON, all the way into Vol. 4... not to MENTION, the entire story hinges on the idea that some chemical refuse could co-mingle and alter a creature's DNA, bone and organ structure, and give them sentience and speech. Which is f***ing stupidly impossible!

Do the math. TMNT is a "gritty tale of two warring ninja clans, an angsty and realistic tale of street-level warfare", like, 25% of the time. The OTHER 75% of the time, it's a wacky showcase of sci-fi "What-the-F***-ery". Thus, TMNT is, for the MOST part, a science fiction story.

People missed that? Really? You let that really important part of that thing you "love" go over your heads entirely? WOW. Read more.

Indeed, TMNT is very much a Scifi story, It was scifi to begin with, when you account for the fact, That the Ooze came from aliens.

JonesyKitty · 06-01-2015, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProactiveMan

Nice and simple. I was talking to someone at work about this last week. 2014 Shredder has this crazy plan about gassing the city from the roof of a skyscraper, then curing them with alien goo for some reason. 1990 Shredder just wants to steal some TVs. That's something we can all relate to.

Hahaha I absolutely love the way you put that

~~Leo656~~ · 06-01-2015, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Indeed, TMNT is very much a Scifi story, It was scifi to begin with, when you account for the fact, That the Ooze came from aliens.

Even in the versions where it's not, and it's just some chemical mess, it's just as much science-fiction.

I kinda prefer the movies *don't* have the Ooze be of alien origin, personally, as I think movies need to be kind of more "grounded" than other versions like cartoons or comics, where the suspension of disbelief is a little greater by default. But even simply having it be lab waste and the entire scenario completely accidental, it's still science fiction enough to call it that.

I just think the degree to which it's played up should vary between movies, cartoons, comics, etc.

*Wildcat* · 06-01-2015, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProactiveMan

Nice and simple. I was talking to someone at work about this last week. 2014 Shredder has this crazy plan about gassing the city from the roof of a skyscraper, then curing them with alien goo for some reason. 1990 Shredder just wants to steal some TVs. That's something we can all relate to.

Doug Walker mentions this in his review. How neither Shredder plans makes sense.

But I think in 2014 his plan is to take over NY, and maybe other places, by having the only cure he can hold it over everyone...like Ill cure you but if you don't follow me I still have the toxic gas. Like a dictator. That's how I took it anyway.

I'm fine with waiting for utroms and such for a sequel.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 06-01-2015, 10:55 PM

Nah, he was just going to use the cure like a carrot on a stick to get "stupid rich". Or Sacks was, anyway. Shredder just wanted to rule the city from behind the scenes. I mean, he had his adopted "son" (How old was he when he adopted Sack, anyway??!!) supplying tech and funds to help the police FIGHT his own clan! That's ballsy. And pretty stupid, if ya think about it. They were BOUND to figure that out sooner or later- like, I dunno, maybe when they saw the deadly gas coming out of Sacks' building??

*Wildcat* · 06-01-2015, 11:01 PM

Ya they wanted to get rich but I still think they would have liked to rule over the public, Shredder anyway. If their plan went through they could have done so. Just for money doesn't make sense.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 06-02-2015, 12:48 AM

Why not? Isn't that what MOST corrupt businessmen are after? Money makes the world go 'round, after all, and with ENOUGH of it, you can do- well, darn near anything you want. That's why so many rich people get into SOOO much more trouble than the average Joe. They have stupid amounts of money, and NO idea what to do with it/themselves. It just breeds bad/dumb ideas and arrogance, greed, and an attitude hat the rules no longer apply. (and they can usually get away with whatever, because they just have to throw money at their problems to make them go away.)

*Candy Kappa* · 06-02-2015, 12:58 AM

It's been a while since I've seen this movie, but wasn't Shredder's motives that he wanted to bring back the Foot from being a forgotten thing off the past, return to the glory days?

*Wildcat* · 06-02-2015, 01:06 AM

@MsMarvelDuckie, They were already rich. I understand some people just want as much money as possible for the sake of it, "stupid rich", but it makes more sense for at least Shredder to want to rule over the public...it's more evil villain-y.

Money doesn't make you invincible physically speaking. Not everyone would care about his money. The gas and cure gives him more power over everyone.

*Andrew NDB* · 06-02-2015, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

You guys think leaving out aliens and fantasy elements was a good thing?

To be honest I'm glad they removed the utrom twist from TMNT 2: Secret of the Ooze. I like how everything is set in the "real world" (ignoring the whole mutagen thing). The first movie teaches kids to stay out of trouble and not join gangs.

I think the second movie had far, far worse and more far-reaching problems than any of that working against it.

*CyberCubed* · 06-02-2015, 01:26 AM

Any TMNT movie that goes full sci-fi will bomb immediately.

Putting in the Utroms and Triceratons and doing the Turtles in Space arc from Mirage would utterly fail on the big-screen. It would be seen as some bad Star Wars/Star Trek ripoff...which it already kinda was.

05-31-2015, 05:16 PM	#1
TurtleFan2012 Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 300	No magic and aliens in the first two movies You guys think leaving out aliens and fantasy elements was a good thing? To be honest I'm glad they removed the utrom twist from TMNT 2: Secret of the Ooze. I like how everything is set in the "real world" (ignoring the whole mutagen thing). The first movie teaches kids to stay out of trouble and not join gangs. Last edited by TurtleFan2012; 05-31-2015 at 08:58 PM.

06-01-2015, 12:28 AM	#3
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	Splinter appearing in the fireplace during the "ninja meditation" was not magic? __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

06-01-2015, 10:55 PM	#14
MsMarvelDuckie I Married a Duck! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur) Posts: 8,773	Nah, he was just going to use the cure like a carrot on a stick to get "stupid rich". Or Sacks was, anyway. Shredder just wanted to rule the city from behind the scenes. I mean, he had his adopted "son" (How old was he when he adopted Sack, anyway??!!) supplying tech and funds to help the police FIGHT his own clan! That's ballsy. And pretty stupid, if ya think about it. They were BOUND to figure that out sooner or later- like, I dunno, maybe when they saw the deadly gas coming out of Sacks' building?? __________________ "You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end

06-01-2015, 11:01 PM	#15
Wildcat Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 3,512	Ya they wanted to get rich but I still think they would have liked to rule over the public, Shredder anyway. If their plan went through they could have done so. Just for money doesn't make sense. __________________ Nothing can survive the will to stay alive, cause if you try, you can do anything. Last edited by Wildcat; 06-01-2015 at 11:16 PM.

06-02-2015, 12:48 AM	#16
MsMarvelDuckie I Married a Duck! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur) Posts: 8,773	Why not? Isn't that what MOST corrupt businessmen are after? Money makes the world go 'round, after all, and with ENOUGH of it, you can do- well, darn near anything you want. That's why so many rich people get into SOOO much more trouble than the average Joe. They have stupid amounts of money, and NO idea what to do with it/themselves. It just breeds bad/dumb ideas and arrogance, greed, and an attitude hat the rules no longer apply. (and they can usually get away with whatever, because they just have to throw money at their problems to make them go away.) __________________ "You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end

05-31-2015, 11:19 PM	#2
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,831	Most comic book films tend to be relatively grounded so they can appeal to a mass audience. Put all this sci-fi stuff in right off the bat and you'll alienate casuals. They usually save that stuff for sequels.

06-01-2015, 06:49 AM	#5
Shark_Blade Emperor Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,909	Yes the over abundance of those two elements made 2k3 cheesy, bad and unenjoyable imo. Goodbye bad stuff.

06-01-2015, 10:01 PM	#9
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	This is what I mean when I get all "Elitist" and point out the Very True Fact that people in general do NOT have any idea what they really want. They SAY they like one thing, but in truth they like something different. They contradict themselves constantly. Especially TMNT fans! TMNT is a science fiction story. Period. The first issue, maybe not so much, but the Very Next Story involved a mad scientist trying to take over the city with an army of killer robots. And like 5 minutes after THAT, you had alien dinosaurs and a guy who put his consciousness into a robot body. And THEN you have demons, time travel, "dreamscapes", parallel realities... I could go ON and ON, all the way into Vol. 4... not to MENTION, the entire story hinges on the idea that some chemical refuse could co-mingle and alter a creature's DNA, bone and organ structure, and give them sentience and speech. Which is f*ing stupidly impossible! Do the math. TMNT is a "gritty tale of two warring ninja clans, an angsty and realistic tale of street-level warfare", like, 25% of the time. The OTHER 75% of the time, it's a wacky showcase of sci-fi "What-the-F***-ery". Thus, TMNT is, for the MOST part, a science fiction story. People missed that? Really? You let that really important part of that thing you "love" go over your heads entirely? WOW. Read more.

06-02-2015, 12:58 AM	#17
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	It's been a while since I've seen this movie, but wasn't Shredder's motives that he wanted to bring back the Foot from being a forgotten thing off the past, return to the glory days? __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

06-02-2015, 01:06 AM	#18
Wildcat Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 3,512	@MsMarvelDuckie, They were already rich. I understand some people just want as much money as possible for the sake of it, "stupid rich", but it makes more sense for at least Shredder to want to rule over the public...it's more evil villain-y. Money doesn't make you invincible physically speaking. Not everyone would care about his money. The gas and cure gives him more power over everyone. __________________ Nothing can survive the will to stay alive, cause if you try, you can do anything.

06-02-2015, 01:26 AM	#20
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,831	Any TMNT movie that goes full sci-fi will bomb immediately. Putting in the Utroms and Triceratons and doing the Turtles in Space arc from Mirage would utterly fail on the big-screen. It would be seen as some bad Star Wars/Star Trek ripoff...which it already kinda was.