If "Night of the Rogues" was done differently

[Yabuturtle]

This is the episode that had a large amount of villains like the Rat King, Slash, Leatherhead, Tempestra, Scumbug, Antrax and Chrome Dome fought the Turtles. I always liked this episode as I liked seeing all of these villains working together, but I felt it could have been a much better more action packed episode.

While entertaining, it was kind of sad to see the Turtles get defeated rather easily, running away and then getting captured. Really none of the Rogues were defeated at all except for Chrome Dome. But I felt it could have been much better.

When they first run away from the Rogues, the villains tear up the city to lure the Turtles out. In the episode they try to take them on again and still fail. I think this is where things should have been changed. They were outnumbered by 7 as there were 7 Rouges and only 4 Turtles. I mean, they took them on the first time, what made them think they'd win this time? Casey Jones and Splinter do show up but only to fight against Chrome Dome. I felt this is where the change should have happened.

The Turtles realize they are outnumbered and were defeated rather easily the first time, and instead of trying to take them on once more, they enlist help from their master Splinter, Casey Jones AND Usagi. That way it would have been even, as it'd be 7 against 7, we'd also see Usagi one more time, and 14 fighters could have duked it out in the city, which I think would have been really entertaining, especially since Usagi never even tangled with those kinds of villains before. Does anyone else agree?

[MikeandRaph87]

First off, this is my favorite episode because of the group of villians being present. I would have switched a couple around, but was glad to see it happen in the classic cartoon. I did not like having Zack present, but if I remember correctly it was supposed to show Raphael as a moral to tne story type tbing that they can trust humans. That is why we got April, Irma, and Zack with Casey and Splinter. I would have rather had Usagi and Mondo Gecko help Casey and Splinter and there is always Metalhead who was stored away. It would have also have been better as a two oarter because of the amount of characters and tbe threat level needing a worthy pay off.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

First off, this is my favorite episode because of the group of villians being present. I would have switched a couple around, but was glad to see it happen in the classic cartoon. I did not like having Zack present, but if I remember correctly it was supposed to show Raphael as a moral to tne story type tbing that they can trust humans. That is why we got April, Irma, and Zack with Casey and Splinter. I would have rather had Usagi and Mondo Gecko help Casey and Splinter and there is always Metalhead who was stored away. It would have also have been better as a two oarter because of the amount of characters and tbe threat level needing a worthy pay off.

This is one of my favourite episodes. However, I rewatched it recently and thought that the ending was anticlimactic. The villains ran away at the end even though they were more skilful than Zack, Irma and April, though Tempestra did say it wasn't worth it. Also, the Turtles never got a chance to have a rematch with them. I didn't like that the Turtles were defeated so easily either, but that happened a lot in the OT anyway.

I agree with everything that you've said, MikeandRaph87. I'm not a fan of Zack, but I liked him in this episode, as he helped save the Turtles.

[oldmanwinters]

I wouldn't change anything about the episode itself, but I would have liked to see the concept developed a little further.

It would have made a good two-part episode, with the first part still keeping the theme about the TMNT needing humanity (allies like Zach, Irma, Casey, April, etc. saving their hides), but the 2nd part would be themed about "humanity needs the mutants" and entail the Turtles hunting down the villains and taking them out with some help from other mutant allies. You could bring back Mondo, Mona Lisa, Usagi, Merdude, etc. Sounds like a cool idea to me.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, the episode could have had a sequel where the same villains team up without Shredder for a second try.

[Galactus]

Other than the basic concept of uniting the Fred Wolf "rogues" and allies being gold I've always found the episode weak especially in comparison to the significant upturn in quality of most of that season.

Shredder seemed much more competent in Season 6 so it's rather sad to see the character literally tarred in the opening battle while the turtles laugh at him. (Potentially opening a can of worms here but it's things like this that make me think the depiction of the Fred Wolf characters in Turtles Forever to be closer to how they actually acted in the show than critics think). I've no problem with him being beaten but I think it should have been done less embarrassingly.

Krang's plan seemed to be very random and very unlike the character. What exactly was he planning to do with alien treasure? Buy the city? If among the treasure there was something that could be used a power source or a weapon that would make sense but he simply wanted to be "stupid rich" - (So that's where Liebeman got the idea from.)

The whole subplot of Raphael resenting humans was nice enough but reminiscent of a number of previous episodes of the show and just an excuse for the episodes's biggest flaw; the turtle rescue squad.

Casey Jones was a solid choice and I can forgive Zack because he was a stalwart ally that despite being one of those "annoying kid characters" often proved useful but the likes of Irma seemed to push the ridiculousness of the group. I would have preferred the team be made up of the turtles more battle ready allies perhaps a mirror of the rogues.

I would have gone with;

Casey Jones
Mondo Gecko
Usagi
Lotus
Metal Head

...perhaps one of the Punk Frogs instead of Zack and you could even introduce a new heroic character like Shredder did with Antrax to round off the group.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Galactus

...perhaps one of the Punk Frogs

Oh, yeah, it would have been nice to see the Punk Frogs again. What episode showcased their last appearance in the series?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Oh, yeah, it would have been nice to see the Punk Frogs again. What episode showcased their last appearance in the series?

Dirk Savage:Mutant Hunter a couple of episodes before that also cofeatured Mondo Gecko and Razhar and Tokka. Only Genhis and Napoleon appeared. Their primary purpose in the plot was to add mutants we all know to the captive list and use to allow the turtles to be alerted to the threat of the episode. I would have said the Punk Frogs, but thought there would have already been enough help. In a separate scenario I would have liked the turtles to have disappeared and the Frogs just happened to be in for a visit. The Punk Frogs under Splinter's guidance have to find the TMNT and stopped the combined might of The Shredder and The Rat King.

Also,I Iwould have liked to have seen Antrax pairred with General Tragg instead of Scumbug.Scumbug needed an episode to himself whereas Antrax had connections to Krang.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Also,I Iwould have liked to have seen Antrax pairred with General Tragg instead of Scumbug.Scumbug needed an episode to himself whereas Antrax had connections to Krang.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Scumbug was in a cancelled episode.

Hence why the episode treats him as if he's a character the turtles have met and fought before. Just guessing here but maybe Wise didn't know it had been cancelled and thus wrote him that way.

[CyberCubed]

I could have seen Scumbug get an episode in Season 5, as that's when they were bringing more mutants into the show like Mutagen Man, Muckman, Mondo Gecko, etc.

[neatoman]

I don't think I've ever seen this episode but let's reimagine it anyways, so time remake this one like Werner Herzog remade Bad Lieutenant. It's a cool idea that I don't need to have seen in action to make up a plot for.

OK so Shredder and Krang have finally finished their dreaded giggle ray, when all of the sudden Savanti Romero pops in with the time scepter. Savanti tells them he's there to take over the Technodrome as the era when a pair of doofuses has it is a much better time to take it over rather than the future where it is used as a golf ball by giants. Shredder and Krang won't have so they send Bebeop and Rocksteady on them but Savanti just sends them to another time period, Shredder and Krang flee.

Shredder and Krang seeks the aid of the Rat King, hoping that his army of rats will be too much for Savanti to deal with. The Rat King agrees on one condition, they must get him the mystical Maltese Hamster. On their quest to find it they come across Casey Jones who's asking what misbehaviour Shredder and Krang are up to this time, their answer is that they aren't up to no good but are simply looking for a hamster toy Bebop and Rocksteady have been nagging them about. Casey asks why that is important and they say it was stolen from them, Casey says that he can't stand lawbreakers and helps "them get it back". When he realises that got tricked Shredder and Krang they tell him it was technically true as they had stolen it in episode 195. Casey is not happy having been tricked but Shredder just zaps him with the giggle ray.

On their way back to Rat King they come across Leatherhead in the sewers. Shredder and Krang tell him what's up and that they need all the help they can get, Leatherhead of course wonders what's in it for him to which Shredder replies that once they're done Leatherhead can have some mutagen to create an army of mutants, to which Leatherhead agrees. Shortly afterwards they also meet up with Slash who joins them when Shredder tells he has a machine that can make binkies. Krang asks Shredder whispering if Shredder has actually built such a device but Shredder tells him he doesn't even remember what a "binky" is but that he is the guy with a giggle ray so it can't be out of the question.

When they finally meet up with the Rat King again he pulls out a rope like object made out rock and puts it on the Maltese Hamster's butt, revealing that it was actually a Maltese Rat all along, it was just missing it's tail. The Rat King then reveals that he can use the Maltese Rat to zap rats between different time periods and sends back a few rats in time. Soon afterwards they return with King Arthur's sword, which Shredder thinks is brilliant. Shredder kicks Rat King in the stomach and runs off with the Maltese Rat and some rats, making Leatherhead and Slash's involvement entirely pointless. Shredder and Krang then return to the Technodrome where it turns out there is no compatible link up cable between the Time Scepter and the Technodrome so he can't bring the Technodrome to the time period he wants, essentially making the Technodrome useless to him. Shredder don't like that had wasted his time, so he uses the rats to send Savanti to another time. At that moment Bebop and Rocksteady return, turns out that the time period they were sent to was five hours into the future.

Shredder realises that he hasn't wasted time, he has a rat relic that can be used for time travel but then the turtles bust in.

Leonardo: We're here to take the Maltese Rat from you!
Shredder: How the blazes did you know about that?
Michelangelo: The show is called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" dude.
Raphael: Yeah, we're contractually obligated to appear in every episode wheter it makes sense or not!

Donatello whacks the Maltese Rat out of Shredder's hands, it smashes as it hits the floor. There is then an awkwardmoment of silence. Leonardo asks if there's anything else and Shredder points out the giggle ray, which Leonardo just cuts in half. The Turtles then just run away screaming cowabunga, after which Krang asks Shredder why it is that the Turtles always break into the Technodrome but never takes the opportunity to stop it for good...

[Yabuturtle]

Here's the teams that could exist which I think the Night of the Rouges episode could have shown.

Krang
Shredder
Bebop
Rocksteady
General Tragg
Leatherhead
Tempestra
Scumbug
Antrax
Chrome Dome
Rat King
Slash

vs.
Leo
Mike
Raph
Don
Splinter
Casey Jones
Usagi
Attila
Napolean
Ghengis
Rasputin
Metalhead

12 against 12 would make an interesting two part episode. I imagine Krang wanted riches so he could not only obtain anything he wanted through financial means but he could use it to entice anyone to do anything for him, much like the way Shredder used the treasure to entice the rouges.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't think I've ever seen this episode but let's reimagine it anyways, so time remake this one like Werner Herzog remade Bad Lieutenant. It's a cool idea that I don't need to have seen in action to make up a plot for.

OK so Shredder and Krang have finally finished their dreaded giggle ray, when all of the sudden Savanti Romero pops in with the time scepter. Savanti tells them he's there to take over the Technodrome as the era when a pair of doofuses has it is a much better time to take it over rather than the future where it is used as a golf ball by giants. Shredder and Krang won't have so they send Bebeop and Rocksteady on them but Savanti just sends them to another time period, Shredder and Krang flee.

Shredder and Krang seeks the aid of the Rat King, hoping that his army of rats will be too much for Savanti to deal with. The Rat King agrees on one condition, they must get him the mystical Maltese Hamster. On their quest to find it they come across Casey Jones who's asking what misbehaviour Shredder and Krang are up to this time, their answer is that they aren't up to no good but are simply looking for a hamster toy Bebop and Rocksteady have been nagging them about. Casey asks why that is important and they say it was stolen from them, Casey says that he can't stand lawbreakers and helps "them get it back". When he realises that got tricked Shredder and Krang they tell him it was technically true as they had stolen it in episode 195. Casey is not happy having been tricked but Shredder just zaps him with the giggle ray.

On their way back to Rat King they come across Leatherhead in the sewers. Shredder and Krang tell him what's up and that they need all the help they can get, Leatherhead of course wonders what's in it for him to which Shredder replies that once they're done Leatherhead can have some mutagen to create an army of mutants, to which Leatherhead agrees. Shortly afterwards they also meet up with Slash who joins them when Shredder tells he has a machine that can make binkies. Krang asks Shredder whispering if Shredder has actually built such a device but Shredder tells him he doesn't even remember what a "binky" is but that he is the guy with a giggle ray so it can't be out of the question.

When they finally meet up with the Rat King again he pulls out a rope like object made out rock and puts it on the Maltese Hamster's butt, revealing that it was actually a Maltese Rat all along, it was just missing it's tail. The Rat King then reveals that he can use the Maltese Rat to zap rats between different time periods and sends back a few rats in time. Soon afterwards they return with King Arthur's sword, which Shredder thinks is brilliant. Shredder kicks Rat King in the stomach and runs off with the Maltese Rat and some rats, making Leatherhead and Slash's involvement entirely pointless. Shredder and Krang then return to the Technodrome where it turns out there is no compatible link up cable between the Time Scepter and the Technodrome so he can't bring the Technodrome to the time period he wants, essentially making the Technodrome useless to him. Shredder don't like that had wasted his time, so he uses the rats to send Savanti to another time. At that moment Bebop and Rocksteady return, turns out that the time period they were sent to was five hours into the future.

Shredder realises that he hasn't wasted time, he has a rat relic that can be used for time travel but then the turtles bust in.

Leonardo: We're here to take the Maltese Rat from you!
Shredder: How the blazes did you know about that?
Michelangelo: The show is called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" dude.
Raphael: Yeah, we're contractually obligated to appear in every episode wheter it makes sense or not!

Donatello whacks the Maltese Rat out of Shredder's hands, it smashes as it hits the floor. There is then an awkwardmoment of silence. Leonardo asks if there's anything else and Shredder points out the giggle ray, which Leonardo just cuts in half. The Turtles then just run away screaming cowabunga, after which Krang asks Shredder why it is that the Turtles always break into the Technodrome but never takes the opportunity to stop it for good...

I would have loved to see that as an episode. It's so dead-on perfect for the middle seasons- especially that bit at the end with the turtles. Hilarious.

[MikeandRaph87]

I dont know about all of that. Sure it could be silly at times, but a tickle ray? Dont l7et the parody of Turtles Forever really like the characters to have involved, but the plot needs to be a bit dire if it includes all of those characters.

[VaughnMichael]

I love the episode the way it is but they should have continued it.
The only one we ever saw again was Rat King.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I dont know about all of that. Sure it could be silly at times, but a tickle ray? Dont l7et the parody of Turtles Forever really like the characters to have involved, but the plot needs to be a bit dire if it includes all of those characters.

You know that thing Bebop and Rocksteady used to find the turtle lair in Turtles Forever? The one that's basically a vacuum cleaner with a human nose at the end of the hose? That silly thing was directly lifted from an episode and speaking as someone who has seen a substantial amount of episodes, it's hardly the silliest thing I've seen in that show. A giggle ray would not have been too much.

Hell, I even brought up the Maltese Hamster in that post, an episode where Shredder literally built a machine that sucks up antiques in order to get a hamster figurine. The show wasn't just silly at times, it was balls to the walls insane with silliness.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by VaughnMichael

I love the episode the way it is but they should have continued it.
The only one we ever saw again was Rat King.

Indeed, a season long arc revolving around taking down each one of the old villains again would have been wonderfully "13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo"-ish! Hey, I like that show, so I mean it as a compliment.

[MikeandRaph87]

Why not Rat King break out and be deadlier and perhaps make a loose alliance with Big Louie who wants to maintain some influence as Beserko moves in? That would have been interesting. Especially if one or two evil mutants would be worked in, but not overdoing it. Maybe Leatherhead work the best of them all.

Yes, there were some aspects that annoyed me because it was so cheesy. The two best examples would be the alien antique dealer from The Sword of Nowhere that was the cheapest plot resolution and a letdown even as a kid. The other was in Michelangelo's Birthday. Bebop and Rocksteady almost succeed in killing Michelangelo but a cheap plot resolution was to believe in moth balls to deflate the other threat turtles who became full of helium or something. Still Turtles Forever could have had Big Louie robbing a bank or Rat King holding city council hostage with rat poison instead of made up goblins and mutant/alien pizza creatures. Then there was the act of cowardice and of course a giggle ray as the villainous plot for the day? Causing Joe Citizen to become fearful or even the device used in Super Rocksteady and Mighty Bebop sure, but a giggle ray? That is even below The Joker's standards and that is his gimmick.

[Yabuturtle]

Originally Posted by Wesley

This is one of my favourite episodes. However, I rewatched it recently and thought that the ending was anticlimactic. The villains ran away at the end even though they were more skilful than Zack, Irma and April, though Tempestra did say it wasn't worth it. Also, the Turtles never got a chance to have a rematch with them. I didn't like that the Turtles were defeated so easily either, but that happened a lot in the OT anyway.

I agree with everything that you've said, MikeandRaph87. I'm not a fan of Zack, but I liked him in this episode, as he helped save the Turtles.

They sometimes did get defeated easily, but in some way it's interesting to see heroes struggle, rather than just effortlessly defeat villains. It is understandable they were defeated easily here as they were outnumbered by 3. Chrome Dome alone is tough for the Turtles to defeat and Tempestra can be brutal with her weather powers. Adding 5 more villains on top of that is just overwhelming.

Tempestra thought it wasn't worth it since they weren't getting paid, but the odds were more in the Turtles favor. Even though Zack, April and Irma can't fight, Casey and Splinter can. Chrome Dome was defeated. So now it was even as it was 6 against 6 so the Rogues would have a tougher time beating them this time. I kind of wish it was a two parter so you could see 6 heroes and 6 villains duke it out in the city.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You know that thing Bebop and Rocksteady used to find the turtle lair in Turtles Forever? The one that's basically a vacuum cleaner with a human nose at the end of the hose? That silly thing was directly lifted from an episode and speaking as someone who has seen a substantial amount of episodes, it's hardly the silliest thing I've seen in that show. A giggle ray would not have been too much.

Hell, I even brought up the Maltese Hamster in that post, an episode where Shredder literally built a machine that sucks up antiques in order to get a hamster figurine. The show wasn't just silly at times, it was balls to the walls insane with silliness.

Still need to see Night of the Rogues but something tells me it's a lot better than your idea.