Joe's crab shack drops tipping for servers

*turtlefanforever* · 11-11-2015, 11:11 AM

Joe's Crab Shack becomes the first major chain to drop tipping for servers.

Rejoice, be angry, whatever your reaction is, discuss below.

*plastroncafe* · 11-11-2015, 11:23 AM

Here's to hoping they pay their staff living wages.

*Candy Kappa* · 11-11-2015, 11:27 AM

This is big news how?

I guess it's bad if the paycheck on the workers are still the "work for tip" mentality. But all serving places should pay a livable wage.

*turtlefanforever* · 11-11-2015, 11:55 AM

the wages already went up, so no need for tipping anymore. Although they will slightly raise the price of food to compensate. Servers are making $12 an hour there average

*turtlefanforever* · 11-11-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

This is big news how?

I guess it's bad if the paycheck on the workers are still the "work for tip" mentality. But all serving places should pay a livable wage.

we need something to break up the obituary that is "current events" here. Tipping is always a hot button issue.

*Candy Kappa* · 11-11-2015, 01:14 PM

12 bucks an hour?
wow, is it some kind of junior work place where kids can learn the values of earning money or a place where students can earn a little extra pocket change?

PangolinFeets · 11-11-2015, 01:20 PM

Yeeaaaa... My sister was a waitress for a while and on a slow day she made the equivalent of roughly $16 an hour. On a good day, she could get around $250 in one night.

Maybe that's not a typical experience?

tmnt transformer · 11-11-2015, 02:17 PM

So much for that place... I'm sure we will hear about them closing places and or replacing workers with droids...

*Mayhem* · 11-12-2015, 04:43 AM

It's a bold move. There is a cyclic problem however, which I believe I detailed in a post some time ago when this subject came up before.

It will take more than one place to make a stand unfortunately. Because if you are going to pay your staff more money, and not have the customers tip them, then you are probably going to have to raise prices to compensate. Or employ less staff. But let's run with the former.

If you raise prices, people may stop coming there because the food is now more expensive than other places nearby. People are just so picky about how much they are spending on food, regardless of the fact it is cheaper than a lot of other places in the world. So you have to generally keep your food prices low to keep the customers coming. Which is why you pay your staff not much to begin with and expect the customer to tip them the difference.

And so it continues. One of two things need to change. Either more places follow in the footsteps of Crab Shack, and increase their staff pay. OR people in the US are just going to have to suck it up and understand they are going to have start paying more for their food (and NOT bitch about it in the process) to bring it inline with the "reality" that many of us elsewhere face for food costs. Especially the cost of meat. Eating less meat in general is a good health thing

*ToTheNines* · 11-12-2015, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

12 bucks an hour?
wow, is it some kind of junior work place where kids can learn the values of earning money or a place where students can earn a little extra pocket change?

I just lol'd in a quiet work truck.

*plastroncafe* · 11-12-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem

And so it continues. One of two things need to change. Either more places follow in the footsteps of Crab Shack, and increase their staff pay. OR people in the US are just going to have to suck it up and understand they are going to have start paying more for their food (and NOT bitch about it in the process) to bring it inline with the "reality" that many of us elsewhere face for food costs. Especially the cost of meat. Eating less meat in general is a good health thing

Oh that's not likely to happen.
We're far too much a "I've got mine, EFF YOU!" culture for that to come about.

*shuriken* · 11-12-2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

Yeeaaaa... My sister was a waitress for a while and on a slow day she made the equivalent of roughly $16 an hour. On a good day, she could get around $250 in one night.

Maybe that's not a typical experience?

I dunno. I've worked as a beer vendor at Chicago Bears games and I'd make like $200 just tips for like 3 hours of work, plus commission (Commision was like $.80 per unit). Most people I know that work as waitresses make anywhere from $40-$300 depending on the day, with the wage being like $6-$10 an hour. As long as they're being paid $12 it's ok. Kinda iffy to me though.

*Jephael* · 11-21-2015, 01:05 AM

Never heard of Joe's Crab Shack. Is a local establishment somewhere? Now if Applebee's were to announce a no-tipping policy, that would really be big.

papa_smurf73 · 11-21-2015, 07:57 AM

Interesting. This reminds me of Japan. I visited Japan in 2011, and was surprised to find there wasn't an expectation of tipping; anywhere, what-so-ever. I even tried to tip someone, and they ran out of the restaurant after me to return my money. That will not happen in the US for sure, but its neat to see early adopters of the concept.

Just my humble opinion... If you think about it, everyone wins. The restaurant can make a little more off the top for every sale they make, the employee's overall morale should improve while making a consistent/predictable wage, and the customer doesn't have to feel that awkward obligation to reward someone for doing the job they're hired for. Not trying to minimize anyone's hard work here or anything, but if the employee is compensated fairly, then this model makes sense to me.

I think Uber and other emerging taxi services are adopting the same ideas of no tipping. Folks do tip, but I also think the drives are compensated well enough that a non tipping customer will not ruin their day. I thought this was interesting:

"The average Uber driver makes about $19 an hour. Here in LA, I make between $20-$25 an hour. In New York drivers make over $30 an hour. Driving full-time, the average Uber driver in the U.S. can make around $40,000 net a year (after expenses and taxes).Jun 9, 2015"

NPR recently held an interview with a company and discussed how their employees made the exact same wage no matter what position they held. This sounds extreme, but overall the employees were very happy, and were well aware of the business model before they assumed employment. The whole concept of upward mobility is null and void in this example. If I remember correctly, folks were cross trained to perform multiple tasks so the company could be more agile, and allow folks to have better vacation options and such.

Its neat to be alive and see folks trying something different like this. Paying someone a reasonable wage to do a task is far better than hoping someone will tip you well for your hard work in my opinion. I'd rather know I'm making a consistent wage.

~~Etsyturtle2~~ · 11-21-2015, 08:38 AM

I don't get it. Is there an alarm that goes off when money is placed on the table? How can they prevent the people from tipping? If they do, does the restaurant take the money?

~~Leo656~~ · 11-21-2015, 05:13 PM

"Problem" is, it's not just that the employees make a living wage, it's that the owners of the businesses are absolutely going to make Whatever The F*ck They Want and Not One Penny Less. Which means when employees' salaries go up, so do prices. It's already started; places near me that still have tipping have already raised prices dramatically in preparation for the transition away from it. Like one meal I'd get from the place next to the gym every day that used to cost $4, is now $6 and change. Which doesn't sound like a lot but it adds up. And it's a little annoying since they still DO have tipping, and frankly, I'm tipping less frequently at that place because I simply don't have it to give. They're already getting my money, I'm there all the time. Kind of cold, maybe, but I'm not paying like $8 after tip for a goddamn sandwich or whatever unless I'm literally Out To Eat with my wife or other people, not just grabbing something from next door on my break. And I habitually over-tip, but that's not something I can afford to do any longer. Nothing personal, we all got our own sh*t to handle is all.

Like, both my parents had stretches working in food service and so I understand the value of tips and how important it is that these people actually make a living wage, instead; I mean there were literally entire weeks where after deducting what my Dad brought home for dinner a few nights a week since we couldn't afford groceries, his entire "paycheck" was $25. Like he was literally working 5-7 days a week for $20-50 and a few pizza pies. If he wasn't getting any tips, you can just forget your Birthday, cancel Christmas, and you know what, just don't get out of bed this weekend at all, because you might wake up hungry and that's really not something we can deal with right now, so just sleep until Monday when you can go get that free school lunch. That's how thin the line is when you work in a business where you depend on tips just to survive, and it's stupid and horrible.

So I'm glad that it's gradually being adjusted so that people working in food service can actually make money and survive. But it would be NICE if you and I didn't have to get beat over it, is all. I understand the CEO's gotta pick up that slack in lost revenue, but for once, it'd be nice if maybe they decided one jet-ski was enough for them to own, or that they already had a big enough condo, or whatever. "Nah, I'm the boss, I make what I wanna make. The rubes want mayo on their sandwich, tell 'em it costs a buck extra. F*ck 'em." You know what I mean.
----------------------

Also, in many Asian countries, particularly China if I recall correctly, the act of tipping is considered vulgar and extravagant. When you tip someone in China, you are literally saying to them, "Look! I have so much money I can just give it away to anyone, even people whose only accomplishment was completing the simple task set before them and doing exactly what they were supposed to do!" They're like, "You ordered food, we served it to you without anyone dying, you paid the agreed-upon amount. Now this transaction is over." Trying to force more money on them isn't thanking them for a job well-done, it's backhandedly saying to them, "You look like you need this more than I do," which I can easily understand could be seen as condescending and insulting.

I didn't know it was a thing either, until I went to a really slamming Chinese restaurant that had these big "DO NOT TIP" signs everywhere. Totally knocked me for a loop. Then someone explained it to me and I was like, "Ahh, okay. Odd, but I get it."

Culture gap and all that. Over there, it's all about the service culture; "It is our job to serve you and we are happy to do it; nothing extra is wanted or necessary." Over here, it's like, "Hi, I'm Amy, I'm studying to be a designer, but right now I work at Denny's, so if you could leave a little something extra on the table so I don't go home and slit my wrists tonight over the fact that I work at f*cking Denny's, it would be greatly appreciated."

*sdp* · 11-21-2015, 05:32 PM

I prefer to pay more than to worry about tipping, but it's not something I actively bitch about unless specifically asked my opinion. Now what I find annoying is all these people who go insane about how much you should tip and how everyone who doesn't tip like they do are terrible and should not bother going out to eat.

Edit: Can we change the thread title to RIP Tipping? I like consistency on this forum.

~~Leo656~~ · 11-21-2015, 05:55 PM

I'm fine either way, it's this "We're raising prices AND still asking you to tip us" fog of nonsense that some places are doing that really chaps my ass. I get it, the boss has to pay you guys more AND still pay for his Ferrari. Totally not my f*cking problem, guy. But yeah, I'd rather pay more than feel obligated to tip. Just don't give it to me from both ends, I don't bend that way.

The "tipping debate" used to bother me as well, when I sucked more at figuring percents, but then I figured out that in most cases, anything less than 15% or so isn't even worth leaving a tip. Luckily, as I mentioned, I'm more apt to over-tip when I tip at all. And I generally tip for the entire table if we ever go out as a group, just because that sh*t where everyone gets out the calculator and starts nitpicking over who owes $1 and who owes $2 is f*cking excruciating. "F*ck it, here's $10. Let's go." "The entire bill was $30!" "I know, I know, it's a hassle fee, I wanna go the f*ck home and you idiots suck at math."

Yeah, not gonna miss those days.

Duke Nukem · 11-21-2015, 07:41 PM

I haven't been to Joe's crab shack in years, mainly because the portion sizes suck compared to other local seafood places. Still, how does a restaurant "eliminate" tipping? Are they posting prominent signs that tell the customers not to tip or something? Something tells me that the servers will still be upset if someone doesn't tip despite the so-called policy changes. I've been to restaurants that add an 18% tip to the bill (due to dealing largely with a customer base that mostly doesn't tip), and have seen servers get annoyed when I don't tip extra on top of that.

11-11-2015, 11:11 AM	#1
turtlefanforever Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,098	Joe's crab shack drops tipping for servers Joe's Crab Shack becomes the first major chain to drop tipping for servers. Rejoice, be angry, whatever your reaction is, discuss below.

11-11-2015, 11:27 AM	#3
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	This is big news how? I guess it's bad if the paycheck on the workers are still the "work for tip" mentality. But all serving places should pay a livable wage. __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

11-11-2015, 11:55 AM	#4
turtlefanforever Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,098	It's good for everyone the wages already went up, so no need for tipping anymore. Although they will slightly raise the price of food to compensate. Servers are making $12 an hour there average

11-11-2015, 01:14 PM	#6
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	12 bucks an hour? wow, is it some kind of junior work place where kids can learn the values of earning money or a place where students can earn a little extra pocket change? __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

11-11-2015, 01:20 PM	#7
PangolinFeets Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,321	Yeeaaaa... My sister was a waitress for a while and on a slow day she made the equivalent of roughly $16 an hour. On a good day, she could get around $250 in one night. Maybe that's not a typical experience? __________________ http://www.twitter.com/pangolinfeets http://www.comicartfans.com/galleryd...=3&gcat=106360

11-11-2015, 02:17 PM	#8
tmnt transformer Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Okoto Posts: 757	So much for that place... I'm sure we will hear about them closing places and or replacing workers with droids... __________________ Spoiler: This Picture was drawn by BeagleTsuin from deviantart. http://https://gleam.io/6dHF3/itam-x-el-june-xbox-giveawayle.php?id=288262&ref=288262"]http://www.vizzed.com/boards/profile.php?id=288262&ref=288262[/URL]

11-12-2015, 04:43 AM	#9
Mayhem Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, England Posts: 4,084	It's a bold move. There is a cyclic problem however, which I believe I detailed in a post some time ago when this subject came up before. It will take more than one place to make a stand unfortunately. Because if you are going to pay your staff more money, and not have the customers tip them, then you are probably going to have to raise prices to compensate. Or employ less staff. But let's run with the former. If you raise prices, people may stop coming there because the food is now more expensive than other places nearby. People are just so picky about how much they are spending on food, regardless of the fact it is cheaper than a lot of other places in the world. So you have to generally keep your food prices low to keep the customers coming. Which is why you pay your staff not much to begin with and expect the customer to tip them the difference. And so it continues. One of two things need to change. Either more places follow in the footsteps of Crab Shack, and increase their staff pay. OR people in the US are just going to have to suck it up and understand they are going to have start paying more for their food (and NOT bitch about it in the process) to bring it inline with the "reality" that many of us elsewhere face for food costs. Especially the cost of meat. Eating less meat in general is a good health thing __________________ Lie with passion and be forever damned...

11-21-2015, 01:05 AM	#13
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	Never heard of Joe's Crab Shack. Is a local establishment somewhere? Now if Applebee's were to announce a no-tipping policy, that would really be big. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-21-2015, 07:57 AM	#14
papa_smurf73 Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 933	Interesting. This reminds me of Japan. I visited Japan in 2011, and was surprised to find there wasn't an expectation of tipping; anywhere, what-so-ever. I even tried to tip someone, and they ran out of the restaurant after me to return my money. That will not happen in the US for sure, but its neat to see early adopters of the concept. Just my humble opinion... If you think about it, everyone wins. The restaurant can make a little more off the top for every sale they make, the employee's overall morale should improve while making a consistent/predictable wage, and the customer doesn't have to feel that awkward obligation to reward someone for doing the job they're hired for. Not trying to minimize anyone's hard work here or anything, but if the employee is compensated fairly, then this model makes sense to me. I think Uber and other emerging taxi services are adopting the same ideas of no tipping. Folks do tip, but I also think the drives are compensated well enough that a non tipping customer will not ruin their day. I thought this was interesting: "The average Uber driver makes about $19 an hour. Here in LA, I make between $20-$25 an hour. In New York drivers make over $30 an hour. Driving full-time, the average Uber driver in the U.S. can make around $40,000 net a year (after expenses and taxes).Jun 9, 2015" NPR recently held an interview with a company and discussed how their employees made the exact same wage no matter what position they held. This sounds extreme, but overall the employees were very happy, and were well aware of the business model before they assumed employment. The whole concept of upward mobility is null and void in this example. If I remember correctly, folks were cross trained to perform multiple tasks so the company could be more agile, and allow folks to have better vacation options and such. Its neat to be alive and see folks trying something different like this. Paying someone a reasonable wage to do a task is far better than hoping someone will tip you well for your hard work in my opinion. I'd rather know I'm making a consistent wage. __________________ My Collection: https://picasaweb.google.com/1182615...eat=directlink COOL STUFF FOR SALE LOOK!!!! - papa_smurf73

11-21-2015, 08:38 AM	#15
~~Etsyturtle2~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: stuff Posts: 1,721	I don't get it. Is there an alarm that goes off when money is placed on the table? How can they prevent the people from tipping? If they do, does the restaurant take the money?

11-21-2015, 05:13 PM	#16
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	"Problem" is, it's not just that the employees make a living wage, it's that the owners of the businesses are absolutely going to make Whatever The Fck They Want and Not One Penny Less. Which means when employees' salaries go up, so do prices. It's already started; places near me that still have tipping have already raised prices dramatically in preparation for the transition away from it. Like one meal I'd get from the place next to the gym every day that used to cost $4, is now $6 and change. Which doesn't sound like a lot but it adds up. And it's a little annoying since they still DO have tipping, and frankly, I'm tipping less frequently at that place because I simply don't have it to give. They're already getting my money, I'm there all the time. Kind of cold, maybe, but I'm not paying like $8 after tip for a goddamn sandwich or whatever unless I'm literally Out To Eat with my wife or other people, not just grabbing something from next door on my break. And I habitually over-tip, but that's not something I can afford to do any longer. Nothing personal, we all got our own sht to handle is all. Like, both my parents had stretches working in food service and so I understand the value of tips and how important it is that these people actually make a living wage, instead; I mean there were literally entire weeks where after deducting what my Dad brought home for dinner a few nights a week since we couldn't afford groceries, his entire "paycheck" was $25. Like he was literally working 5-7 days a week for $20-50 and a few pizza pies. If he wasn't getting any tips, you can just forget your Birthday, cancel Christmas, and you know what, just don't get out of bed this weekend at all, because you might wake up hungry and that's really not something we can deal with right now, so just sleep until Monday when you can go get that free school lunch. That's how thin the line is when you work in a business where you depend on tips just to survive, and it's stupid and horrible. So I'm glad that it's gradually being adjusted so that people working in food service can actually make money and survive. But it would be NICE if you and I didn't have to get beat over it, is all. I understand the CEO's gotta pick up that slack in lost revenue, but for once, it'd be nice if maybe they decided one jet-ski was enough for them to own, or that they already had a big enough condo, or whatever. "Nah, I'm the boss, I make what I wanna make. The rubes want mayo on their sandwich, tell 'em it costs a buck extra. Fck 'em." You know what I mean. ---------------------- Also, in many Asian countries, particularly China if I recall correctly, the act of tipping is considered vulgar and extravagant. When you tip someone in China, you are literally saying to them, "Look! I have so much money I can just give it away to anyone, even people whose only accomplishment was completing the simple task set before them and doing exactly what they were supposed to do!" They're like, "You ordered food, we served it to you without anyone dying, you paid the agreed-upon amount. Now this transaction is over." Trying to force more money on them isn't thanking them for a job well-done, it's backhandedly saying to them, "You look like you need this more than I do," which I can easily understand could* be seen as condescending and insulting. I didn't know it was a thing either, until I went to a really slamming Chinese restaurant that had these big "DO NOT TIP" signs everywhere. Totally knocked me for a loop. Then someone explained it to me and I was like, "Ahh, okay. Odd, but I get it." Culture gap and all that. Over there, it's all about the service culture; "It is our job to serve you and we are happy to do it; nothing extra is wanted or necessary." Over here, it's like, "Hi, I'm Amy, I'm studying to be a designer, but right now I work at Denny's, so if you could leave a little something extra on the table so I don't go home and slit my wrists tonight over the fact that I work at f*cking Denny's, it would be greatly appreciated."

11-21-2015, 05:32 PM	#17
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,225	I prefer to pay more than to worry about tipping, but it's not something I actively bitch about unless specifically asked my opinion. Now what I find annoying is all these people who go insane about how much you should tip and how everyone who doesn't tip like they do are terrible and should not bother going out to eat. Edit: Can we change the thread title to RIP Tipping? I like consistency on this forum. __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server Last edited by sdp; 11-21-2015 at 05:38 PM.

11-21-2015, 05:55 PM	#18
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I'm fine either way, it's this "We're raising prices AND still asking you to tip us" fog of nonsense that some places are doing that really chaps my ass. I get it, the boss has to pay you guys more AND still pay for his Ferrari. Totally not my fcking problem, guy. But yeah, I'd rather pay more than feel obligated to tip. Just don't give it to me from both ends, I don't bend that way. The "tipping debate" used to bother me as well, when I sucked more at figuring percents, but then I figured out that in most cases, anything less than 15% or so isn't even worth leaving a tip. Luckily, as I mentioned, I'm more apt to over-tip when I tip at all. And I generally tip for the entire table if we ever go out as a group, just because that sht where everyone gets out the calculator and starts nitpicking over who owes $1 and who owes $2 is fcking excruciating. "Fck it, here's $10. Let's go." "The entire bill was $30!" "I know, I know, it's a hassle fee, I wanna go the f*ck home and you idiots suck at math." Yeah, not gonna miss those days.

11-21-2015, 07:41 PM	#19
Duke Nukem Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 272	I haven't been to Joe's crab shack in years, mainly because the portion sizes suck compared to other local seafood places. Still, how does a restaurant "eliminate" tipping? Are they posting prominent signs that tell the customers not to tip or something? Something tells me that the servers will still be upset if someone doesn't tip despite the so-called policy changes. I've been to restaurants that add an 18% tip to the bill (due to dealing largely with a customer base that mostly doesn't tip), and have seen servers get annoyed when I don't tip extra on top of that.