Bebop and Rocksteady: Competent now?

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 06-29-2016, 10:42 PM

Guys, is it me, or are these two actually the most competent and effective villains in the TMNT Multiverse? Think about it;the IDW version are super powerful, overpower the turtles every time they fight, and nearly destroyed all reality when they stole multiple versions of the time scepter. The Nick Versions are deadly and competent fighters,and lack the stupidity of other incarnations, and can challenge the turtles to good fights. And the movie versions actually succeeded at the mission they were sent on in South America, defeating the turtles in that battle. Has their embarrassing OT incompetence finally been overridden? Have they earned thier place as being a regular occurance in the TMNT multiverse, instead of just being confined to OT/Archie?

Personally, I think in the majority of the fandom's minds, they've become just as much a part of the lore as anything from Mirage, and will probably show up in most adaptations from now on. If they are handled as well as IDW and Nick have done them, the only thing I have to say is; welcome aboard, boys!

*CyberCubed* · 06-29-2016, 10:52 PM

Yes, no, maybe so.

They're still written as comic relief and bumbling friends with low intelligence in every incarnation (even in IDW), but they obviously have a power boost in that they're not just pushovers for the Turtles.

Also I don't get why this surprises you, outside of Mirage, Bebop/Rocksteady have already appeared in nearly every incarnation. They were in Archie TMNT Adventures too of course, and in 2k3 they got to appear in Turtles Forever.

The only thing they missed is the original 90's movie trilogy and their Mirage appearances were cameos.

*CyberCubed* · 06-29-2016, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

2k3 and mirage Doesn't count, they weren't a part of that universe, it was a crossover. They weren't in the original films, Next Mutation, 2k3, and were absent from all media for over a decade. The sudden comeback in the last few years is surprising, especially considering they aren't from mirage.

Bebop/Rocksteady last appearance in the original cartoon was in Season 8 in 1994 and we didn't see them again till Turtles Forever in 2009. So there was a 15 year gap with no appearances of the characters.

Aside from that 15 year gap, which is a pretty big gap, they have been around in some form consistently.

*Andrew NDB* · 06-29-2016, 11:58 PM

No. They're not. Though the kind of post-Bebop and Rocksteady Bebop and Rocksteady in TMNT Adventures was kind of neat.

*Andrew NDB* · 06-30-2016, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I love what all the current incarnations have done with them, and look forward to many future incarnations to come.

I know you would. Very well.

Quote:

That murderous bloodbath of a massacre in the IDW micro issue was fun to watch; two unstoppable killing machines who leave a trail of bodies and destruction in their wake. Except for a few individuals, the majority of this fandom loves these two. They are here to stay.

I get that the "look, Bebop and Rocksteady are actually lethal now, and will kill people because they're cray-cray!" thing is supposed to mitigate the "But Bebop and Rocksteady are just numbskulls" thing... but what it actually does is render anyone actually willing to employ them or put them under their wing a lesser character. Because that makes them dumb. There is literally no reason to shoehorn them into anything post-Fred Wolf for any reason other than some kind of nostalgia hook. Good stories shouldn't shift and move to accommodate things like Bebop and Rocksteady, it should be the other way around. And if they don't fit, then don't include them.

*neatoman* · 06-30-2016, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No. They're not. Though the kind of post-Bebop and Rocksteady Bebop and Rocksteady in TMNT Adventures was kind of neat.

You mean the whole "Let's run around naked together" thing? I'm sure plenty of people like that as well, just for very different reasons than I think you do.

Cryomancer · 06-30-2016, 01:48 PM

Nah that was interesting because you got to see a mutant embrace their animal nature, which doesn't happen much.

*Candy Kappa* · 06-30-2016, 02:40 PM

Any version that is mutant heavy, I'm down for some B&R.

A rhino and a warthog mutant is a very striking look, plus the punker motif is really cool. Not that I don't like the Nick version, but I feel the IDW version is a tad stronger in design and characterization.

*TurtleTitan97* · 06-30-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Guys, is it me, or are these two actually the most competent and effective villains in the TMNT Multiverse?

Um, no. Not even close.

Huzzah · 07-01-2016, 07:11 PM

I think Nick screwed the pooch. When they were first introduced Bebop was a savvy, effective, techno style thief and Rocksteady was a freaking Russian arms dealer, collector and seemed to have strong influences. Then they were mutated and their IQ levels dropped drastically, relegating them to dumb muscle. The could've been a great wrench to throw into the mix, but instead they became their Fred Wolf selves.

*MikeandRaph87* · 07-01-2016, 09:09 PM

Competent? No. Capable? Yes. Their extreme toughness and love of violence being incorporated countering their natural stupidity and ignorance makes them mainstays in the franchise instead of just a nostalgic vornerstone of Turtlemania. Bebop and Rocksteady have finally proven themselves but their weakness is their incomoetence. Its just now its not a joke that defines them and one of the few great examples of pre-Nick era characters being dusted off and improved upon.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 07-01-2016, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Competent? No. Capable? Yes. Their extreme toughness and love of violence being incorporated countering their natural stupidity and ignorance makes them mainstays in the franchise instead of just a nostalgic vornerstone of Turtlemania. Bebop and Rocksteady have finally proven themselves but their weakness is their incomoetence. Its just now its not a joke that defines them and one of the few great examples of pre-Nick era characters being dusted off and improved upon.

Hear, hear!

Stupid and bumbling is all well and good for '80's cartoons.

But stupid, bumbling, homicidal, and wrecking unlucky terrapins with a bloody sledgehammer is GOOD. In a terrible, terrible way.

*MikeandRaph87* · 07-01-2016, 09:27 PM

As far as Bebop and Rocksteady go we got individual personalities for the two of them just like I wanted for the Nicktoon and are what they could have been without 89s television censors in the IDW comic.

I remember since 2007 emailing Dan Berger about getting Bebop and Rocksteady dusted off the widen interest in the Mirage comic and telling him they only need a bit of invulnerability and blood on rheir hands to be taken seriously. It actually happen...albeit under Nickelodeon and a comic company just launching at that time.

What if Bebop got ahold of Maxwell's silver hammer or worse yet...mjolinir.

Rocksteady with a drill will give turtles nightmares of mutant dentist.

*Utrommaniac* · 07-01-2016, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Rocksteady with a drill will give turtles nightmares of mutant dentist.

I couldn't resist...it had to happen.

Spoiler:

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 07-02-2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Rocksteady with a drill will give turtles nightmares of mutant dentist.

Is it safe?

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 07-02-2016, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Is it safe?

Only if your teeth are already gone!

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 07-02-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

I couldn't resist...it had to happen.

Spoiler:

OMG! That was my first thought when I saw the dentist comment!

*MikeandRaph87* · 07-02-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Is it safe?

Not from Rocksteady, Laurence Oliver.

*Powder* · 07-02-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Is it safe?

*plastroncafe* · 07-02-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Is it safe?

06-29-2016, 10:42 PM	#1
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	Bebop and Rocksteady: Competent now? Guys, is it me, or are these two actually the most competent and effective villains in the TMNT Multiverse? Think about it;the IDW version are super powerful, overpower the turtles every time they fight, and nearly destroyed all reality when they stole multiple versions of the time scepter. The Nick Versions are deadly and competent fighters,and lack the stupidity of other incarnations, and can challenge the turtles to good fights. And the movie versions actually succeeded at the mission they were sent on in South America, defeating the turtles in that battle. Has their embarrassing OT incompetence finally been overridden? Have they earned thier place as being a regular occurance in the TMNT multiverse, instead of just being confined to OT/Archie? Personally, I think in the majority of the fandom's minds, they've become just as much a part of the lore as anything from Mirage, and will probably show up in most adaptations from now on. If they are handled as well as IDW and Nick have done them, the only thing I have to say is; welcome aboard, boys! __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket. Last edited by Panda_Kahn_fan; 06-29-2016 at 10:52 PM.

06-29-2016, 11:58 PM	#4
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,539	No. They're not. Though the kind of post-Bebop and Rocksteady Bebop and Rocksteady in TMNT Adventures was kind of neat. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

06-30-2016, 01:48 PM	#7
Cryomancer Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,090	Nah that was interesting because you got to see a mutant embrace their animal nature, which doesn't happen much. __________________ Final Boss of translation group Opentrain. We do videogame comics and TMNT stuff. http://opentrain.theyear199x.org/

06-30-2016, 02:40 PM	#8
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	Any version that is mutant heavy, I'm down for some B&R. A rhino and a warthog mutant is a very striking look, plus the punker motif is really cool. Not that I don't like the Nick version, but I feel the IDW version is a tad stronger in design and characterization. __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

07-01-2016, 07:11 PM	#10
Huzzah Mad Scientist Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Independence, Louisiana Posts: 1,124	I think Nick screwed the pooch. When they were first introduced Bebop was a savvy, effective, techno style thief and Rocksteady was a freaking Russian arms dealer, collector and seemed to have strong influences. Then they were mutated and their IQ levels dropped drastically, relegating them to dumb muscle. The could've been a great wrench to throw into the mix, but instead they became their Fred Wolf selves. __________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/93225684@N02/ https://tmntnextmutation.wordpress.com/

06-29-2016, 10:52 PM	#2
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	Yes, no, maybe so. They're still written as comic relief and bumbling friends with low intelligence in every incarnation (even in IDW), but they obviously have a power boost in that they're not just pushovers for the Turtles. Also I don't get why this surprises you, outside of Mirage, Bebop/Rocksteady have already appeared in nearly every incarnation. They were in Archie TMNT Adventures too of course, and in 2k3 they got to appear in Turtles Forever. The only thing they missed is the original 90's movie trilogy and their Mirage appearances were cameos.

07-01-2016, 09:09 PM	#11
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	Competent? No. Capable? Yes. Their extreme toughness and love of violence being incorporated countering their natural stupidity and ignorance makes them mainstays in the franchise instead of just a nostalgic vornerstone of Turtlemania. Bebop and Rocksteady have finally proven themselves but their weakness is their incomoetence. Its just now its not a joke that defines them and one of the few great examples of pre-Nick era characters being dusted off and improved upon. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

07-01-2016, 09:27 PM	#13
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	As far as Bebop and Rocksteady go we got individual personalities for the two of them just like I wanted for the Nicktoon and are what they could have been without 89s television censors in the IDW comic. I remember since 2007 emailing Dan Berger about getting Bebop and Rocksteady dusted off the widen interest in the Mirage comic and telling him they only need a bit of invulnerability and blood on rheir hands to be taken seriously. It actually happen...albeit under Nickelodeon and a comic company just launching at that time. What if Bebop got ahold of Maxwell's silver hammer or worse yet...mjolinir. Rocksteady with a drill will give turtles nightmares of mutant dentist. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!