Hamato Yoshi's time in NYC sewers

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 02:25 AM

I just read an origin story in a TMNT comic where it's stated that Hamato Yoshi had to much dignity and honor to beg in the streets, so he hid and lived his life in the sewers.
(This is from a swedish translated and compiled comic book from early 90s, but I will try to find the original.)

I'm very intrigued by this part of the Splinter origin. In the - Hamato Yoshi mutates into Splinters storylines - how do they explain him turning to a life in the sewers?
I need details, and references, please.

I know that in Nick he gets mutagen on him from Krang in the streets, and then hides because of how monstrous he looks. That's a good story, but choosing to live in the sewers with rats as friends is even more interesting.

Why, Yoshi, why?

*CyberCubed* · 08-26-2016, 04:46 AM

Well he was essentially homeless, pretty much a bum, when he moved to America. He might have blown whatever money he had on the plane ticket.

I'm not sure why he couldn't find a job before moving to the sewers. It was the 80's after all, maybe it was racist time and nobody would hire a Japanese man.

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Well he was essentially homeless, pretty much a bum, when he moved to America. He might have blown whatever money he had on the plane ticket.

I'm not sure why he couldn't find a job before moving to the sewers. It was the 80's after all, maybe it was racist time and nobody would hire a Japanese man.

I'm thinking along those lines too. About the 80s being a more rasist time, and especially the time after WWII, where USA and Japan were enemies. There were evidently Guantanamo bay-like camps in the US for japanese-americans after Pearl Harbor.
And being japanese was a stigma long after the war's end.
I think this stigma is brought up i Karate Kid by Mister Miyagi, or am i wrong?

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 05:54 AM

Are there any comic book issues or TV episode that adress the transition to USA and life for Hamato in the sewers?
All I could find was this brief quote about dignity, which is pretty ironic. Which life has more dignity, the life of a beggar, or a sewer dweller?
I'm sounding a bit harsh now and I must say I really feel for Hamato in this predicament. After all he overcame all this and managed to single parent four violent ADD-boys in the underground so... win Splinter.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 08-26-2016, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sockervalpen

I'm thinking along those lines too. About the 80s being a more rasist time, and especially the time after WWII, where USA and Japan were enemies. There were evidently Guantanamo bay-like camps in the US for japanese-americans after Pearl Harbor.
And being japanese was a stigma long after the war's end.
I think this stigma is brought up i Karate Kid by Mister Miyagi, or am i wrong?

That was entirely a product of post-WWII. Mostly in the 50's and early 60's. By the 80's it was largely a thing of the past and no longer an issue. Miagi's "stigma" was being a Japanese pilot in the US Air Force in WWII. They were mistrusted and had a hard time proving their loyalty to their fellow soldiers.

Splinter hiding in the sewers was mainly due to having nowhere else to go, being penniless and having no contacts. An illegal immigrant, basically.

~~somethingreal~~ · 08-26-2016, 06:05 AM

Well think that it meant he didn't want to ask for peoples money, but would rather prove to himself that he could live fine on his own.

If I'm homeless but perfectly capable of living for myself, where's the honor in asking for money?

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 06:12 AM

It wasn't too hard to find the comic, since it was #1 of TMNT Adventures. But in a compilation.

Here's the quote about honor:
http://tmntentity.blogspot.se/2012/0...logue-and.html

"His honor forbidding him from begging or stealing to survive, Yoshi went to live in the sewer, where he befriended the rats."

But I need more.

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

That was entirely a product of post-WWII. Mostly in the 50's and early 60's. By the 80's it was largely a thing of the past and no longer an issue. Miagi's "stigma" was being a Japanese pilot in the US Air Force in WWII. They were mistrusted and had a hard time proving their loyalty to their fellow soldiers.

Splinter hiding in the sewers was mainly due to having nowhere else to go, being penniless and having no contacts. An illegal immigrant, basically.

OK the 50s, I understand. And obviously Hamato moved to USA in the 80s so he wasn't affected by that. Hmm, would have been an interesting thing though, for the US to have created the outcast Hamato and maybe rage of Saki by stigmatizing them for being on the wrong side of the war.
Or maybe not.
Maybe I'm barking up some trees here, but I'm interested in the social and political and just realistic reasons for Splinter to appear in NYC to shape these turtles (japanese-american?)

Yes, illegal immigrant, I like that, that label puts him in context.

Thanks for Mr Miyagi explanation also. I remember it now.

sockervalpen · 08-26-2016, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somethingreal

Well think that it meant he didn't want to ask for peoples money, but would rather prove to himself that he could live fine on his own.

If I'm homeless but perfectly capable of living for myself, where's the honor in asking for money?

I see. Thanks. So the key is how you are seen by others. That's maybe what honor basically is? Or how you see yourself?
I understand the honor in taking care of yourself. By any means. Not accepting help. You've seen those stories when it comes to homeless persons.
So, how did he survive and manage his life in the sewers?
For the Mirage rat-Splinter it was more likely. He eats whatever.
But, Hamato, did he use his ninja skills to sneak sushi through the vent?

Maybe I should watch examples of how the turtles does it, ordering pizza and whatnot, to see how Hamato did it first.

~~somethingreal~~ · 08-26-2016, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sockervalpen

I see. Thanks. So the key is how you are seen by others. That's maybe what honor basically is? Or how you see yourself?
I understand the honor in taking care of yourself. By any means. Not accepting help. You've seen those stories when it comes to homeless persons.
So, how did he survive and manage his life in the sewers?
For the Mirage rat-Splinter it was more likely. He eats whatever.
But, Hamato, did he use his ninja skills to sneak sushi through the vent?

Maybe I should watch examples of how the turtles does it, ordering pizza and whatnot, to see how Hamato did it first.

I don't think he lived on a strict sushi diet. I think he probably lived on whatever he could find that was still edible. When the turtles started to grow, they started ordering pizza and what not and he probably sent the turtles up for a sushi run. Lol.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 08-26-2016, 08:39 AM

If he had no permanent habitual residence in the USA he would have to hide from the police coming and ask for his passport.

*IndigoErth* · 08-26-2016, 03:53 PM

The "illegal immigrant" angle was my first thought as well, just now. Clearly he had a passport so he could leave Japan that quick, but he's suspiciously overstayed his visit. Fileing to legally immigrate and obtain citizenship takes time to go through.

Interesting to think about, hadn't really crossed my mind before.

*MsMarvelDuckie* · 08-26-2016, 06:47 PM

As an aside, it takes seven years residence as a legal immigrant plus U.S. citizenship courses and a test to become a naturalized citizen who can vote, do jury duty, etc. If Sinter had no papers or residence, he could easily have been deported. And it is doubtful he even had a passport. Probably smuggled himself out of Japan.

Survival in NYC as a homeless person might be easier than many people think. There are always places that give out food that is going out of date to the homeless, or sell it super cheap in retail wholesale shops (Mrs.Bairds has shops that dump items that are near their sell-by date for mere cents on the dollar.) And store dumpsters often contain dented canned goods or other items that are not considered sellable (damaged goods) but are still otherwise fine.

sockervalpen · 08-29-2016, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

The "illegal immigrant" angle was my first thought as well, just now. Clearly he had a passport so he could leave Japan that quick, but he's suspiciously overstayed his visit. Fileing to legally immigrate and obtain citizenship takes time to go through.

Interesting to think about, hadn't really crossed my mind before.

Is this brushed upon in Nickelodeon? He doesn't go into the sewers until he bought the turtles at the pet store and got mutagen on him.
Any clues on what happened before?

sockervalpen · 08-29-2016, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

As an aside, it takes seven years residence as a legal immigrant plus U.S. citizenship courses and a test to become a naturalized citizen who can vote, do jury duty, etc. If Sinter had no papers or residence, he could easily have been deported. And it is doubtful he even had a passport. Probably smuggled himself out of Japan.

Survival in NYC as a homeless person might be easier than many people think. There are always places that give out food that is going out of date to the homeless, or sell it super cheap in retail wholesale shops (Mrs.Bairds has shops that dump items that are near their sell-by date for mere cents on the dollar.) And store dumpsters often contain dented canned goods or other items that are not considered sellable (damaged goods) but are still otherwise fine.

Interesting, Hamato living as a dumpster diver and sewer dweller means he's doomed to become a rat (or live as a rat) even before he gets mutated.
That's kind of thematic character build up reminds me of the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy, where say Batman or Scare crow or Banes lives experiences add up to them becoming their greatest fears, becoming their pain.

And all this survival in sewers and fear of being deported came alot easier to a rat-Splinter. That is, we are trying to figure out the logistics and reality of a story that started a lot less forced in the original Mirages.
But that's interesting, because when the OT invented Hamato-Splinter they changed the course of things.
And this is the version I'm most used to. So you have to kind of fit all the pieces together, as an adult.
Otherwise your childhood crackles, no just kidding.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 08-29-2016, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

That was entirely a product of post-WWII. Mostly in the 50's and early 60's. By the 80's it was largely a thing of the past and no longer an issue. Miagi's "stigma" was being a Japanese pilot in the US Air Force in WWII. They were mistrusted and had a hard time proving their loyalty to their fellow soldiers.

Splinter hiding in the sewers was mainly due to having nowhere else to go, being penniless and having no contacts. An illegal immigrant, basically.

There was, however, a small resurgence of hate towards the Japanese by some American workers in the 1980's, with Japan becoming an economic powerhouse, and US businesses and jobs starting to move overseas and be bought out by Japanese zabatsu at the time. One east Asian student going to college in the US was murdered because his killer thought he was Japanese. Yoshi might have been unable to secure a job during that time, when Americans feared Japanese taking their jobs.
__________________

sockervalpen · 08-29-2016, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

There was, however, a small resurgence of hate towards the Japanese by some American workers in the 1980's, with Japan becoming an economic powerhouse, and US businesses and jobs starting to move overseas and be bought out by Japanese zabatsu at the time. One east Asian student going to college in the US was murdered because his killer thought he was Japanese. Yoshi might have been unable to secure a job during that time, when Americans feared Japanese taking their jobs.
__________________

Had a hunch this was the climate in the 80s.
But I didn't know about the student murder.

Also on the topic of racism and stereotypes, it's kind of a miracle that not only the bad guy Shredder is Japanese, but the good guy and mentor Splinter is also Japanese.

I have a feeling 80's movies often cast Japanese men as the bad guys. Even though ninjas was a popular thing, the ninja action heroes of the 80s were mostly white.
Right?
With "American ninja" and such. And do I remeber fellow Swede Dolph Lundgren fighting ninjas or samurai?

"Karate Kid" had a sympathetic Japanese man in Mr Miagi. And "Three Ninjas" too, but the villain was also Japanese, a crime lord if I remember correctly.

Thinking now of "Samurai cop's" semi-racist speach against the Japanese crime lord (a variant of the Shredder-stereotype): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvni9KbZfoo
"what's an all-american girl like you, doing with a geek like this?"
das racist

We can thank Eastman and Laird for this - let's call it balance - even though their Splinter is a rat, they invented Hamato Yoshi.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 08-29-2016, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

There was, however, a small resurgence of hate towards the Japanese by some American workers in the 1980's, with Japan becoming an economic powerhouse, and US businesses and jobs starting to move overseas and be bought out by Japanese zabatsu at the time. One east Asian student going to college in the US was murdered because his killer thought he was Japanese. Yoshi might have been unable to secure a job during that time, when Americans feared Japanese taking their jobs.
__________________

It began already by the mid-1970's following the 1973-1974 Oil Crisis recession after the 1973 October War when the western world experienced economic recession for first time since the 1930's Great Depression. By the mid-1970's Japanese cars were considered better and began to sell well.

sockervalpen · 08-30-2016, 04:50 AM

OK. I've used some of this discussion in my story for Hamato Yoshi in NYC. This is my first hunch. I'm a filmmaker so I'm pitching this as a fan film.
Disclaimer: Some parts are really irreverent to the TMNT-mythos. But I find experimenting with the origin story ricochets into interesting outcomes for the turtles.

HAMATO YOSHI - UNDERGROUND ARTIST

We follow a japanese middle aged man, Hamato Yoshi, into the NYC subway. He doesn't know the english language and seem to be an introvert. Gesturing and talking to himself. Has he got his kimono on? Yes, but on top of his normal clothes. And the kimono is flayling in the wind, more like a coat, with paint spots on it. This is his painter's robe.
Under his arm he carries a huge portfolio with his paintings.

His subway ticket doesn't work, he tries a couple of times, but then just sneaks or hops past the gate.

While on the subway he fails to show a security guard a valid ticket. The guard speaks to him in a louder and louder voice but Hamato doesn't understand. The guard says his portfolio is also too big to carry on the subway car. At the next stop you're coming with me. The guard grabs Hamato and the portfolio, but Hamato freaks and resists, tries to take his paintings back.
The guard is big but calls on backup, another guard comes from another car. The other guard bullies Hamato for his asian looks. Are you gonna kung fu me? Ha, Mister Miyagi. Seems we got a Mister Miyagi on our hands.
Hamato doesn't fight back, not on the subway with children, he doesn't want the situation to escalate. But as soon as the car stops and they escort him off, he breaks loose and escapes into the tunnels. Knowing the guards won't following on the rails, and they don't. They just scream: We're gonna smoke you out, you ****ing rodent.

Hamato walks around in the tunnels, disillusioned. Meets some homeless people. One who doesn't speak, and they communicate by drawing little scetches to eachother.
He meets a graffiti gang, they don't see him first, he is such a sneaky ninja, but he stands and admires their art. He points at the tag and says something i japanese. The gang see him and are scared, where did you come from. They panic, shove him out of the way and flee towards the light. Hamato shouts to them - I am also (whispers) painter.

He walks towards the light and escape the tunnel system.
In a montage we seem his over ground NYC life. How he can't maintain his job and flat, he paints on the walls and the landlord busts him.
He is forced to go back into the tunnels.

He finishes the graffiti painting.
He is taken care of by the mute sketch artist, given a place to stay and sleep. Under a light intake he paints a portrait of his friend. A friend who has pet rats on his shoulder. Strange bandages over his nose and forehead. Who can't speak so he plays the flute, or maybe blows into sewer pipes like a pan flute or a didgeridoo, and the rats come to him.

This is Hamato's life now.

The security company make raids in the sewers, evicting the homeless. They are aggressive and fumigate everything. We see flashlights through the smoke. Gas masks. But Hamato manage to hide, like a ninja.

So maybe Hamato Yoshi moved to New York to become a painter. Keeps his favorite paintings folded in his kimono. The works of Raphael, Leonardo, Michaelangeloand Donatello.
But the Americans just want him to fight, they just want the stereotype. To provoke the stereotype. Show me some karate. They shove him and imitate Bruce Lee. Hamato just wants to leave.

In a state of depression Hamato cuts off a piece of his ear. He is manic and needs paint, must have some color to paint. "I need red. I need red".
He cuts his ear to paint with the blood, makes a fantastic little painting. And he is calm again.
A painting which then a sequrity guard will come and destroy when they raid the underground hiding place.

sockervalpen · 09-06-2016, 01:53 AM

OK that killed this thread haha. Sorry for lumping this story on you.

But I have another question about Hamato Yoshi and his interest in art and especially the renaissance painters.
Is this referenced in the comics or TV episodes more than him just owning an art book with the paintings of Leonardo da Vinci etc?

08-26-2016, 06:47 PM	#13
MsMarvelDuckie I Married a Duck! Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur) Posts: 8,773	As an aside, it takes seven years residence as a legal immigrant plus U.S. citizenship courses and a test to become a naturalized citizen who can vote, do jury duty, etc. If Sinter had no papers or residence, he could easily have been deported. And it is doubtful he even had a passport. Probably smuggled himself out of Japan. Survival in NYC as a homeless person might be easier than many people think. There are always places that give out food that is going out of date to the homeless, or sell it super cheap in retail wholesale shops (Mrs.Bairds has shops that dump items that are near their sell-by date for mere cents on the dollar.) And store dumpsters often contain dented canned goods or other items that are not considered sellable (damaged goods) but are still otherwise fine. __________________ "You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end

08-26-2016, 02:25 AM	#1
sockervalpen Mouser Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	Hamato Yoshi's time in NYC sewers I just read an origin story in a TMNT comic where it's stated that Hamato Yoshi had to much dignity and honor to beg in the streets, so he hid and lived his life in the sewers. (This is from a swedish translated and compiled comic book from early 90s, but I will try to find the original.) I'm very intrigued by this part of the Splinter origin. In the - Hamato Yoshi mutates into Splinters storylines - how do they explain him turning to a life in the sewers? I need details, and references, please. I know that in Nick he gets mutagen on him from Krang in the streets, and then hides because of how monstrous he looks. That's a good story, but choosing to live in the sewers with rats as friends is even more interesting. Why, Yoshi, why?

08-26-2016, 04:46 AM	#2
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,823	Well he was essentially homeless, pretty much a bum, when he moved to America. He might have blown whatever money he had on the plane ticket. I'm not sure why he couldn't find a job before moving to the sewers. It was the 80's after all, maybe it was racist time and nobody would hire a Japanese man.

08-26-2016, 05:54 AM	#4
sockervalpen Mouser Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	Are there any comic book issues or TV episode that adress the transition to USA and life for Hamato in the sewers? All I could find was this brief quote about dignity, which is pretty ironic. Which life has more dignity, the life of a beggar, or a sewer dweller? I'm sounding a bit harsh now and I must say I really feel for Hamato in this predicament. After all he overcame all this and managed to single parent four violent ADD-boys in the underground so... win Splinter.

08-26-2016, 06:05 AM	#6
~~somethingreal~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Odo Island Posts: 15	Well think that it meant he didn't want to ask for peoples money, but would rather prove to himself that he could live fine on his own. If I'm homeless but perfectly capable of living for myself, where's the honor in asking for money?

08-26-2016, 06:12 AM	#7
sockervalpen Mouser Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	It wasn't too hard to find the comic, since it was #1 of TMNT Adventures. But in a compilation. Here's the quote about honor: http://tmntentity.blogspot.se/2012/0...logue-and.html "His honor forbidding him from begging or stealing to survive, Yoshi went to live in the sewer, where he befriended the rats." But I need more.

08-26-2016, 08:39 AM	#11
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,480	If he had no permanent habitual residence in the USA he would have to hide from the police coming and ask for his passport.

08-26-2016, 03:53 PM	#12
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,293	The "illegal immigrant" angle was my first thought as well, just now. Clearly he had a passport so he could leave Japan that quick, but he's suspiciously overstayed his visit. Fileing to legally immigrate and obtain citizenship takes time to go through. Interesting to think about, hadn't really crossed my mind before.

08-30-2016, 04:50 AM	#19
sockervalpen Mouser Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	OK. I've used some of this discussion in my story for Hamato Yoshi in NYC. This is my first hunch. I'm a filmmaker so I'm pitching this as a fan film. Disclaimer: Some parts are really irreverent to the TMNT-mythos. But I find experimenting with the origin story ricochets into interesting outcomes for the turtles. HAMATO YOSHI - UNDERGROUND ARTIST We follow a japanese middle aged man, Hamato Yoshi, into the NYC subway. He doesn't know the english language and seem to be an introvert. Gesturing and talking to himself. Has he got his kimono on? Yes, but on top of his normal clothes. And the kimono is flayling in the wind, more like a coat, with paint spots on it. This is his painter's robe. Under his arm he carries a huge portfolio with his paintings. His subway ticket doesn't work, he tries a couple of times, but then just sneaks or hops past the gate. While on the subway he fails to show a security guard a valid ticket. The guard speaks to him in a louder and louder voice but Hamato doesn't understand. The guard says his portfolio is also too big to carry on the subway car. At the next stop you're coming with me. The guard grabs Hamato and the portfolio, but Hamato freaks and resists, tries to take his paintings back. The guard is big but calls on backup, another guard comes from another car. The other guard bullies Hamato for his asian looks. Are you gonna kung fu me? Ha, Mister Miyagi. Seems we got a Mister Miyagi on our hands. Hamato doesn't fight back, not on the subway with children, he doesn't want the situation to escalate. But as soon as the car stops and they escort him off, he breaks loose and escapes into the tunnels. Knowing the guards won't following on the rails, and they don't. They just scream: We're gonna smoke you out, you ****ing rodent. Hamato walks around in the tunnels, disillusioned. Meets some homeless people. One who doesn't speak, and they communicate by drawing little scetches to eachother. He meets a graffiti gang, they don't see him first, he is such a sneaky ninja, but he stands and admires their art. He points at the tag and says something i japanese. The gang see him and are scared, where did you come from. They panic, shove him out of the way and flee towards the light. Hamato shouts to them - I am also (whispers) painter. He walks towards the light and escape the tunnel system. In a montage we seem his over ground NYC life. How he can't maintain his job and flat, he paints on the walls and the landlord busts him. He is forced to go back into the tunnels. He finishes the graffiti painting. He is taken care of by the mute sketch artist, given a place to stay and sleep. Under a light intake he paints a portrait of his friend. A friend who has pet rats on his shoulder. Strange bandages over his nose and forehead. Who can't speak so he plays the flute, or maybe blows into sewer pipes like a pan flute or a didgeridoo, and the rats come to him. This is Hamato's life now. The security company make raids in the sewers, evicting the homeless. They are aggressive and fumigate everything. We see flashlights through the smoke. Gas masks. But Hamato manage to hide, like a ninja. So maybe Hamato Yoshi moved to New York to become a painter. Keeps his favorite paintings folded in his kimono. The works of Raphael, Leonardo, Michaelangeloand Donatello. But the Americans just want him to fight, they just want the stereotype. To provoke the stereotype. Show me some karate. They shove him and imitate Bruce Lee. Hamato just wants to leave. In a state of depression Hamato cuts off a piece of his ear. He is manic and needs paint, must have some color to paint. "I need red. I need red". He cuts his ear to paint with the blood, makes a fantastic little painting. And he is calm again. A painting which then a sequrity guard will come and destroy when they raid the underground hiding place.

09-06-2016, 01:53 AM	#20
sockervalpen Mouser Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	OK that killed this thread haha. Sorry for lumping this story on you. But I have another question about Hamato Yoshi and his interest in art and especially the renaissance painters. Is this referenced in the comics or TV episodes more than him just owning an art book with the paintings of Leonardo da Vinci etc?