Will there ever be an entirely original incarnation of TMNT?

*Andrew NDB* · 11-01-2016, 01:53 PM

I mean, obviously no matter what, we will probably always have 4 mutant, teenaged Turtles who know ninjitsu trained by a rat named Splinter who may or may not have been Hamato Yoshi or Hamato Yoshi's pet, but beyond that... do you feel like there will ever be a new incarnation of TMNT (be it a cartoon, a new comic, a new movieverse, an anime) that is original beyond that?

In terms of being its own thing. New characters, new villains, different direction and take (not "I wonder what new origin we can give for Beebop and Rocksteady this time around" or "I bet I know a great new way for Renet to meet the Turtles this time"). A complete new universe, with no interest in just re-imagining old characters and stories. Since the sale to Viacom/Nick, all we've gotten is different variations of the same thing (new Bebop, new Mutagen Man, new Mechaturtle, etc.) that mostly seem to spider-web from Fred Wolf, though I'm even talking about other existing universes. Why must every new TMNT incarnation be a study in redoing old characters and old stories, over and over again, and will there ever be one that breaks the mold on this?

*neatoman* · 11-01-2016, 02:25 PM

Uh, well, they could do that... But the question is, what would the motive really be?

If someone wanted to ignore everything that had previously been established, why not just make an entirely new concept unrelated to TMNT? The closest thing to what you're asking for is Next Mutation, and seeing how nobody liked that (in part for not feeling familiar), you might as well rely on reworking older ideas. You might argue that Next Mutation was just incompetent on it's own, but even then more people would probably have given it a pass if it more closely resembled older material.

Pretty much the only reason the FW cartoon got away with being nothing like Mirage, is that it was made early on and had an entirely different market in mind. It probably wouldn't have flown if it started in 1997 instead of 1987.

Besides if you set out to make something that is "unique" in regards to the rest of the franchise instead of focusing on what worked before, you could end up with something like Ultimate Spider-Man or Hulk Agents of SMASH.

*CyberCubed* · 11-01-2016, 03:21 PM

The worst thing they can do is make the Turtles aliens (like Michael Bay wanted), or make the Turtles human teenagers who mutate into Turtles.

So I don't think we need either that.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 11-01-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The worst thing they can do is make the Turtles aliens (like Michael Bay wanted), or make the Turtles human teenagers who mutate into Turtles.

So I don't think we need either that.

Agreed on both of those.

Both of which were considered by Bay and Co. if I remember correctly.

*IndigoErth* · 11-01-2016, 03:42 PM

Easiest and most possible in my mind is to just make them older, drop the 'teen' thing and have the freedom to do a new series with new stories that skips over all the old stuff that has been done over and over. Been wishing for that for a while now. But will anyone ever be brave enough to take it on rather than just staying in the safer waters of what's been done.

I know older Turtles have been touched on just a little before, but an entire series though would have a lot of creative freedom.

Can't see Nick doing it, though Viacom has other channels it might be more at home on.

*snake* · 11-01-2016, 03:54 PM

I'm all for original stuff. Change the setting, no one said each incarnation has to take place in NYC. Why not the old west? Feudal japan? There's tons of stuff you can do.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 11-01-2016, 05:36 PM

The only truly original incarnation of tmnt would be mirage, and even that is a parody of other comic books.

*Andrew NDB* · 11-01-2016, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

The only truly original incarnation of tmnt would be mirage, and even that is a parody of other comic books.

No it's not. Continuing to say that over and over again doesn't make it true.

*Jephael* · 11-01-2016, 05:51 PM

I don't see them ever making an entirely original idea based around the Ninja Turtles. People wanna see their favorite secondary characters make a come back just as much as their favorite main characters.

Ceres · 11-01-2016, 05:54 PM

Why re-inventing the wheel when a pretty good and decent movie about the IDW comics can be made instead? It would have everything a true TMNT would love.

*Jephael* · 11-01-2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

Why re-inventing the wheel when a pretty good and decent movie about the IDW comics can be made instead? It would have everything a true TMNT would love.

Not everyone likes the IDW comics, or Mirage... or the 4Kids series. Hell, I'm working on a treatment for a TMNT remake set in 2034 that takes a lot from Archie comics, and I know not everyone is gonna care for it.

*neatoman* · 11-01-2016, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No it's not. Continuing to say that over and over again doesn't make it true.

Wait... What about?...

Technogeek29 · 11-01-2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jephael

I don't see them ever making an entirely original idea based around the Ninja Turtles. People wanna see their favorite secondary characters make a come back just as much as their favorite main characters.

I would...

*Powder* · 11-01-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceres

Why re-inventing the wheel when a pretty good and decent movie about the IDW comics can be made instead? It would have everything a true TMNT would love.

IDW is definitely not perfect, & that opinion has nothing to do with being a "true TMNT fan". If such a thing exists, it's guys like Andrew, whose passion for the property is totally Mirage driven, & those of us who favorite Mirage above all else take issue with a few elements of IDW... But I wouldn't argue that it's very well done or that it'd make a great film (so long as they focused more on the earlier stuff & less on the secondary teams).

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Wait... What about?...

I think Andrew's point is that it's not defined by that. The first issue & original concept in it's most basic form were comprised of parody elements, but it does it's own thing. It's no longer a parody of any sort as of issue 2. Saying that's all it is takes a lot of way from the creators & undermines its originality.

John Pannozzi · 11-01-2016, 09:13 PM

Zulli's TMNT work. That is all.

*Wildcat* · 11-01-2016, 10:33 PM

A better question is, will there ever be an entirely original incarnation of TMNT...that "true fans" won't complain about?

This topic coming from someone who loves to hate the PD movies

That's rich.

Fast Forward was basically already this. There was also a topic awhile back where everyone reinvented the turtles in totally different way.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 11-01-2016, 11:14 PM

Whenever a myth is retold, it incorporates elements from past tellings, while adding new fragments to enhance the narrative. Stripping the myth down to one core element, and forbidding drawing from past retellings, you can end up with something.. rather bland. And it ties the hands of the storyteller. Myth is like a living thing, changing and growing over time to suit the needs of each age. Mythology is not etched in dogmatic stone from the first time the story is told, with later elements being forbidden to enter the core mythology to keep it 'pure'. I mean if you like that sort of storytelling, okay, But I feel something is lost whe you place those limitations. This applies to the ninja turtles modern mythology, as well.

Take the stories of king Arthur and his knights. Can you imagine the Arthurian cycle with no Merlin, no Lancelot, and no grail cycle? All of those elements were added by Geoffrey of Monmouth, and the troubadours who composted tales for the french courts in the high middle ages, they are not from the source material of the Welsh legends. Imagine the romantic elements from the age of chivalry, the quintessential myth of the high middle ages, forbidden to be reused because they were not the first telling? Sure, the oldest recorded Arthur stories of a Welsh chieftain and his warrior band were far gritter and more melancholy than the later knights and their chivalry, but something interesting is lost when you try to strip it back and throw away centuries of creativity in the name of going back and doing a fresh retelling from scratch. Each telling added their own layer to the myth, causing it to change and grow. Why throw that away?

*pferreira* · 11-03-2016, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Whenever a myth is retold, it incorporates elements from past tellings, while adding new fragments to enhance the narrative. Stripping the myth down to one core element, and forbidding drawing from past retellings, you can end up with something.. rather bland. And it ties the hands of the storyteller. Myth is like a living thing, changing and growing over time to suit the needs of each age. Mythology is not etched in dogmatic stone from the first time the story is told, with later elements being forbidden to enter the core mythology to keep it 'pure'. I mean if you like that sort of storytelling, okay, But I feel something is lost whe you place those limitations. This applies to the ninja turtles modern mythology, as well.

Beat me to it. The problem as you said is that there's a need by the studio to make reference or rehash elements of previous iterations of the Turtles. We can never have something truly original because there's too much to fall back on already. Every Turtles series just evolves taking in what came before that's why a lot of TV shows today or films like The Force Awakens have trouble not just rehashing previous ideas.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 11-04-2016, 05:05 AM

Maybe there can be a version with Shreder, like in Mirage, and the Foot Clan being fought off early, then put aside for street gangs, gangsters, other ninjas and extraterrestrials.

View Poll Results: Will there ever be an entirely original incarnation of TMNT?
Nope, never.	6	35.29%
Highly unlikely.	6	35.29%
Maybe, but not under Viacom/Nick's watch.	5	29.41%
Yes, absolutely.	0	0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

11-01-2016, 01:53 PM	#1
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,506	Will there ever be an entirely original incarnation of TMNT? I mean, obviously no matter what, we will probably always have 4 mutant, teenaged Turtles who know ninjitsu trained by a rat named Splinter who may or may not have been Hamato Yoshi or Hamato Yoshi's pet, but beyond that... do you feel like there will ever be a new incarnation of TMNT (be it a cartoon, a new comic, a new movieverse, an anime) that is original beyond that? In terms of being its own thing. New characters, new villains, different direction and take (not "I wonder what new origin we can give for Beebop and Rocksteady this time around" or "I bet I know a great new way for Renet to meet the Turtles this time"). A complete new universe, with no interest in just re-imagining old characters and stories. Since the sale to Viacom/Nick, all we've gotten is different variations of the same thing (new Bebop, new Mutagen Man, new Mechaturtle, etc.) that mostly seem to spider-web from Fred Wolf, though I'm even talking about other existing universes. Why must every new TMNT incarnation be a study in redoing old characters and old stories, over and over again, and will there ever be one that breaks the mold on this? __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

11-01-2016, 05:51 PM	#9
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	I don't see them ever making an entirely original idea based around the Ninja Turtles. People wanna see their favorite secondary characters make a come back just as much as their favorite main characters. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-01-2016, 05:54 PM	#10
Ceres Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Germany Posts: 601	Why re-inventing the wheel when a pretty good and decent movie about the IDW comics can be made instead? It would have everything a true TMNT would love. __________________ "Shredder, why don't you make love to me anymore?"

11-01-2016, 10:33 PM	#16
Wildcat Foot Elite Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 3,513	A better question is, will there ever be an entirely original incarnation of TMNT...that "true fans" won't complain about? This topic coming from someone who loves to hate the PD movies That's rich. Fast Forward was basically already this. There was also a topic awhile back where everyone reinvented the turtles in totally different way. __________________ Nothing can survive the will to stay alive, cause if you try, you can do anything.

11-01-2016, 03:21 PM	#3
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,835	The worst thing they can do is make the Turtles aliens (like Michael Bay wanted), or make the Turtles human teenagers who mutate into Turtles. So I don't think we need either that.

11-01-2016, 03:42 PM	#5
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,295	Easiest and most possible in my mind is to just make them older, drop the 'teen' thing and have the freedom to do a new series with new stories that skips over all the old stuff that has been done over and over. Been wishing for that for a while now. But will anyone ever be brave enough to take it on rather than just staying in the safer waters of what's been done. I know older Turtles have been touched on just a little before, but an entire series though would have a lot of creative freedom. Can't see Nick doing it, though Viacom has other channels it might be more at home on.

11-01-2016, 03:54 PM	#6
snake Disgusting Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 12,231	I'm all for original stuff. Change the setting, no one said each incarnation has to take place in NYC. Why not the old west? Feudal japan? There's tons of stuff you can do.

11-01-2016, 05:36 PM	#7
FredWolfLeonardo This ***** used to be Fun Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Woke paradise Posts: 5,378	The only truly original incarnation of tmnt would be mirage, and even that is a parody of other comic books.

11-01-2016, 11:14 PM	#17
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	Whenever a myth is retold, it incorporates elements from past tellings, while adding new fragments to enhance the narrative. Stripping the myth down to one core element, and forbidding drawing from past retellings, you can end up with something.. rather bland. And it ties the hands of the storyteller. Myth is like a living thing, changing and growing over time to suit the needs of each age. Mythology is not etched in dogmatic stone from the first time the story is told, with later elements being forbidden to enter the core mythology to keep it 'pure'. I mean if you like that sort of storytelling, okay, But I feel something is lost whe you place those limitations. This applies to the ninja turtles modern mythology, as well. Take the stories of king Arthur and his knights. Can you imagine the Arthurian cycle with no Merlin, no Lancelot, and no grail cycle? All of those elements were added by Geoffrey of Monmouth, and the troubadours who composted tales for the french courts in the high middle ages, they are not from the source material of the Welsh legends. Imagine the romantic elements from the age of chivalry, the quintessential myth of the high middle ages, forbidden to be reused because they were not the first telling? Sure, the oldest recorded Arthur stories of a Welsh chieftain and his warrior band were far gritter and more melancholy than the later knights and their chivalry, but something interesting is lost when you try to strip it back and throw away centuries of creativity in the name of going back and doing a fresh retelling from scratch. Each telling added their own layer to the myth, causing it to change and grow. Why throw that away? __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket. Last edited by Panda_Kahn_fan; 11-02-2016 at 08:45 AM.

11-04-2016, 05:05 AM	#19
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,480	Maybe there can be a version with Shreder, like in Mirage, and the Foot Clan being fought off early, then put aside for street gangs, gangsters, other ninjas and extraterrestrials.