Captain Marvel 2: Boden and Fleck Out, New Writer

[ZariusTwo]

Megan McDonnel (Wandavision) is currently finalising a deal to pen the script for the sequel, but Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck are not returning to co-direct (They will remain in the MCU's orbit and might do something for Disney+). Disney are hoping to have the movie ready for 2022.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...writer-1272259

[AquaParade]

I'm pleased that Marvel is bringing in a new team for this, despite how much money the first film made. It gives me hope that they realize how truly boring it is, IMO. Maybe they aren't resting on their laurels, maybe they believe they need a better quality movie to sustain the success.

Maybe they just couldn't work out a deal with the previous team. Either way, this I see this as positive.

[Sumac]

First CM was not a bad movie and it had few good moments, but it was too safe and formulaic. I do not expect MCU to completely move on from their "winning formula", but I hope they still would be able to make something interesting.

[Autbot_Benz]

I also agree first one wasn't as bad kinda dull. More Carol like she was in endgame please.

[Leo656]

I heard Larson is demanding at least $15 million to keep doing the role after this movie.

Anybody wanna show her the "Dolittle" receipts, just to remind her that no matter how big a "star" you are, if you're not playing "MCU Character 74-B" then nobody gives a f*ck about you?

I feel like these people are forgetting that. To put it into rasslin' terms, "YOU are not over, your gimmick is over." RDJ isn't over, Iron Man is over. Brie Larson isn't over; people don't go see her in non-Marvel movies. People don't go see ScarJo's movies just because she's in them.

These MCU actors are seriously painting themselves into a corner by incredibly overrating their own ability to draw a house without the MCU marketing push behind them. Not one of these people can "pop a buyrate" on their own; even the guys who play Captain America and Thor have had mixed results outside the Marvel bubble.

"I was in a billion dollar film! Pay me a ton of money or I'll go be in another movie instead for someone else, and it'll make a billion dollars because I'M in it!" Must be nice to have such an inflated sense of self-importance, but it doesn't actually work that way. Brie should slow her roll on this.

[Voltron]

It's called the Halo effect. When success in one endeavor influences other areas.

If Larson can leverage that amount, good for her.

[Leo656]

As I've been saying in Hulk Hogan's defense for ages, nobody is stupid for merely accepting what someone offers them, but Disney would be rather stupid to offer, given the circumstances and the relative lack of success these actors have had making other movies. What makes ANY of them worth $15-20 million a shot, now that Endgame is over with?

She simply ain't worth that much. None of them are. We have RDJ to thank for trying to power-play Disney and encouraging everyone else in the cast to do the same, but as we've seen, their individual "star power" fizzles when they try and do literally anything else. So what that tells me is, people come to the theater to see the characters, not the actors. Just like people go to WWE shows to see "the grand spectacle of it all"; "A WWE Show" is an event unto itself, and that's why since the 1980s the name of the company is on the marquee and not the wrestlers headlining. People come out to see the brand, the individual performers are merely interchangeable cogs in the wheel. When one of them gets replaced, nobody blinks, and nothing changes. Thus, no individual performer can ever try and "hold Vince McMahon hostage" for more money; the last guy who pulled that and got away with it was Hogan, and that was like 1987. When Warrior and other guys tried it, they just got fired and told outright, "Without this company's branding, you're worth nothing. We don't need you."

Like, I don't like how the wrestling business is currently a culture of fear, but at least everybody understands their role in the grand scheme of things. Nobody's asking for exorbitant amounts of money under a shallow threat that they're going to go leave and make more money elsewhere, because that's impossible. Just like Brie Larson getting paid even half of her asking price simply isn't going to happen anywhere but Disney. They hold all the cards, and she's got nothing. If she's smart, she'll take what they give her and like it. Because let's face it, in 2015 RDJ and Co. could try and pull leverage, because Disney needed them or else they couldn't finish their whole Avengers experiment. That's over with now, and with an X-Men reboot looming, any current MCU actors are expendable. No matter what they say in public, THAT is the Next big Phase, and everything from now until then is just treading water. Once we find out who's playing Wolverine, nobody on this planet is even gonna care what Captain Marvel is up to.

Or Ant-Man, for that matter. WHY is that even a thing?!

I'm not a fan of exorbitant actor salaries in general because movies currently cost far too much to make, and that hurts the entire business. But most of these people have been doing nothing - NOTHING - but being a talking head on a green screen for over ten years now, and they think they thus deserve to earn the GDP of some small countries, just for that. And I like to see these types of people brought down to earth, occasionally, if for no other reason than because this kind of salary growth is crippling the movie business and is simply not sustainable.

Again, not one of them is stupid for taking a slanted deal when it's put in front of them, but to demand a slanted deal with no leverage at all is just plain silly. And it's not gonna help her already lousy public reputation, either. I just think it's tacky.

Don't Ask, Don't Get. So sure. Upselling yourself is not a bad marketing strategy. But c'mon, lady, check the temperature. None of these people can currently draw flies even if they were covered in sh*t first, unless it's a MCU film. She's gonna be the first? Doubtful. They're not lucky to have her, she's lucky they asked her to be involved, end of story.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Leo656

As I've been saying in Hulk Hogan's defense for ages, nobody is stupid for merely accepting what someone offers them, but Disney would be rather stupid to offer, given the circumstances and the relative lack of success these actors have had making other movies. What makes ANY of them worth $15-20 million a shot, now that Endgame is over with?

She simply ain't worth that much. None of them are. We have RDJ to thank for trying to power-play Disney and encouraging everyone else in the cast to do the same, but as we've seen, their individual "star power" fizzles when they try and do literally anything else. So what that tells me is, people come to the theater to see the characters, not the actors. Just like people go to WWE shows to see "the grand spectacle of it all"; "A WWE Show" is an event unto itself, and that's why since the 1980s the name of the company is on the marquee and not the wrestlers headlining. People come out to see the brand, the individual performers are merely interchangeable cogs in the wheel. When one of them gets replaced, nobody blinks, and nothing changes. Thus, no individual performer can ever try and "hold Vince McMahon hostage" for more money; the last guy who pulled that and got away with it was Hogan, and that was like 1987. When Warrior and other guys tried it, they just got fired and told outright, "Without this company's branding, you're worth nothing. We don't need you."

Like, I don't like how the wrestling business is currently a culture of fear, but at least everybody understands their role in the grand scheme of things. Nobody's asking for exorbitant amounts of money under a shallow threat that they're going to go leave and make more money elsewhere, because that's impossible. Just like Brie Larson getting paid even half of her asking price simply isn't going to happen anywhere but Disney. They hold all the cards, and she's got nothing. If she's smart, she'll take what they give her and like it. Because let's face it, in 2015 RDJ and Co. could try and pull leverage, because Disney needed them or else they couldn't finish their whole Avengers experiment. That's over with now, and with an X-Men reboot looming, any current MCU actors are expendable. No matter what they say in public, THAT is the Next big Phase, and everything from now until then is just treading water. Once we find out who's playing Wolverine, nobody on this planet is even gonna care what Captain Marvel is up to.

Or Ant-Man, for that matter. WHY is that even a thing?!

I'm not a fan of exorbitant actor salaries in general because movies currently cost far too much to make, and that hurts the entire business. But most of these people have been doing nothing - NOTHING - but being a talking head on a green screen for over ten years now, and they think they thus deserve to earn the GDP of some small countries, just for that. And I like to see these types of people brought down to earth, occasionally, if for no other reason than because this kind of salary growth is crippling the movie business and is simply not sustainable.

Again, not one of them is stupid for taking a slanted deal when it's put in front of them, but to demand a slanted deal with no leverage at all is just plain silly. And it's not gonna help her already lousy public reputation, either. I just think it's tacky.

Don't Ask, Don't Get. So sure. Upselling yourself is not a bad marketing strategy. But c'mon, lady, check the temperature. None of these people can currently draw flies even if they were covered in sh*t first, unless it's a MCU film. She's gonna be the first? Doubtful. They're not lucky to have her, she's lucky they asked her to be involved, end of story.

This is a really good point.

There are some unhappy caveats to it, though.

First, the whole thing kind of fizzles out here:

people come to the theater to see the characters, not the actors.

I'm assuming this is what she's basing her request on. At the moment, she IS Captain Marvel. She IS the character. And while recasting isn't unheard of, I've always been surprised with the lengths studios go to to avoid confusing the fans.

My case in point: we can't have more than one Batman cartoon, because apparently that's too confusing for everyone.


I had a discussion with a friend some time ago about the exorbitant salaries of pro athletes. I posited that they didn't deserve it, because all they do is run around and catch a ball. Yay.

His counter argument blew me away. It's not that they're good at playing, it's that they generate the revenue. The ticket sales and the merchandise are all based on what they've been doing. (Speaking to a wrestler, I'm sure we don't need to point out every legend in the ring who met a tragic end due, in part, to the lousy business culture).

Completely changed the way I look at entertainers, regardless of who they are.

And that's the other thing that's going to work in her favor. She's generated a LOT of revenue for the company.

Third, and perhaps most frustrating, is that Disney really doubled down on the whole "Future is Female" thing. And Larson lead the charge in that regard. If Disney cans her now, they're going to have a PR issue that they'll have to work really hard to fix. It's going to be a tough sell axing the face of their politics heavy franchise because she wanted more cash.

Does Larson *deserve* the money? I honestly have no idea, because I'm **** with numbers. However, I think that she has a solid case in making her demands, outrageous as they may seem.


Though I do agree with you. There's not a lot of big name actors that put my ass in a seat. Stories, though? Absolutely.

[Leo656]

Has she really generated All This Revenue, though? The first Captain Marvel movie might have been a fluke. I didn't see it, so I can't speak to its quality - I give less than a speck of fly's sh*t about that particular character so I don't know if I'll ever see it, period - but most people were excited for it because it was the last MCU movie before Endgame and was marketed as a "Must-See" based on that. People expected it to be Super-Important to the Grand Finale of the Avengers saga, and from what I gathered, it really wasn't all that important, which annoyed people.

I've never heard anyone say it was a terrible or even bad movie, but I did see a lot of, "Well, it was pretty much what I expected, but also kind of a letdown because I expected more connective tissue between it and Endgame, and in the end it was Just Another Origin Story." And then she was apparently barely in Endgame. How many people bought a ticket to Endgame JUST because they liked Captain Marvel? It's impossible to say. All I know is that for a billion-grosser, her solo movie's overall cultural impact has been a little underwhelming (aside from the shilling in the magazines and on the internet with the aforementioned "Future Is Female" narrative). It's kinda like another Avatar, a movie that "everyone" saw and was "game-changing" but nobody talks about or remembers unless someone else brings it up first. It came out like a year ago but feels way older than that already.

I'm not convinced if you put the exact same movie out Right Now, AFTER Endgame, that it would have done as well. Lots of intangibles, there. We'll never know for sure, but I'm not convinced. They tried to "push" Captain Marvel as being "The MCU Hero Just For Women" the way they pushed Black Panther as "The MCU Hero Just For Black people", but it didn't have the same impact at all, not even close. I'm sure she has plenty of fans, but is she as popular as Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, or even Black Panther? I'unno. I hear people talk about those characters all the time. I, personally, never hear anyone talk about Captain Marvel until someone reminds them she had a movie. "OH, yeah, that was pretty good, too." Not a very enthusiastic response, if you ask me. But that's anecdotal.

Now, I don't expect them to sh*tcan her outright, because as you said that's bad PR, and bad PR is really all that can hurt them. They're savvy. What I expect is there to be a negotiation, and maybe she'll do more and maybe she won't. Maybe she'll even get the amount she's asking for. I just think that's tacky of her to ask/demand and that Disney would be stupid to cave in to her demands, because we all know what happens when you give a mouse a cookie. And I'm not sure she's really all THAT popular, or generates THAT much revenue.

I'm not even sure how one would measure that. One surely couldn't rely on Disney to give any honest data, because they're still trying to convince people that Rose Tico is a popular and even Beloved character in the Star Wars universe, instead of simply "The Sequel Trilogy's Jar-Jar" that she actually is. They'll tell you so-and-so is an invaluable part of the team and is making them a gazillion dollars in merch money, but that doesn't make it true, it just means that's the story they want to spin. So I'unno, I have no idea how one would actually measure Brie Larson's actual "worth" to the MCU franchise or how many people pay to see her specifically. I just have a gut feeling that she's not as important as SHE thinks she is.

Regardless, $15-20 million to play pretend in front of a green-screen is nonsense, just like whatever pro athletes earn to throw a ball is nonsense. I know that they "generate revenue" for their respective corporate overlords, but at the end of they day they contribute nothing to society of measurable value ("Joy" is not a quantifiable commodity ) and it's this kind of gross inequity that has us on the slippery slope we're presently on. I'm the single-biggest defender of the free market economy you'll ever meet but even I have my limits. Stuff like this is bananas, to me.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Has she really generated All This Revenue, though? The first Captain Marvel movie might have been a fluke. I didn't see it, so I can't speak to its quality - I give less than a speck of fly's sh*t about that particular character so I don't know if I'll ever see it, period - but most people were excited for it because it was the last MCU movie before Endgame and was marketed as a "Must-See" based on that. People expected it to be Super-Important to the Grand Finale of the Avengers saga, and from what I gathered, it really wasn't all that important, which annoyed people.

I've never heard anyone say it was a terrible or even bad movie, but I did see a lot of, "Well, it was pretty much what I expected, but also kind of a letdown because I expected more connective tissue between it and Endgame, and in the end it was Just Another Origin Story." And then she was apparently barely in Endgame. How many people bought a ticket to Endgame JUST because they liked Captain Marvel? It's impossible to say. All I know is that for a billion-grosser, her solo movie's overall cultural impact has been a little underwhelming (aside from the shilling in the magazines and on the internet with the aforementioned "Future Is Female" narrative). It's kinda like another Avatar, a movie that "everyone" saw and was "game-changing" but nobody talks about or remembers unless someone else brings it up first. It came out like a year ago but feels way older than that already.

I'm not convinced if you put the exact same movie out Right Now, AFTER Endgame, that it would have done as well. Lots of intangibles, there. We'll never know for sure, but I'm not convinced. They tried to "push" Captain Marvel as being "The MCU Hero Just For Women" the way they pushed Black Panther as "The MCU Hero Just For Black people", but it didn't have the same impact at all, not even close. I'm sure she has plenty of fans, but is she as popular as Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, or even Black Panther? I'unno. I hear people talk about those characters all the time. I, personally, never hear anyone talk about Captain Marvel until someone reminds them she had a movie. "OH, yeah, that was pretty good, too." Not a very enthusiastic response, if you ask me. But that's anecdotal.

Now, I don't expect them to sh*tcan her outright, because as you said that's bad PR, and bad PR is really all that can hurt them. They're savvy. What I expect is there to be a negotiation, and maybe she'll do more and maybe she won't. Maybe she'll even get the amount she's asking for. I just think that's tacky of her to ask/demand and that Disney would be stupid to cave in to her demands, because we all know what happens when you give a mouse a cookie. And I'm not sure she's really all THAT popular, or generates THAT much revenue.

I'm not even sure how one would measure that. One surely couldn't rely on Disney to give any honest data, because they're still trying to convince people that Rose Tico is a popular and even Beloved character in the Star Wars universe, instead of simply "The Sequel Trilogy's Jar-Jar" that she actually is. They'll tell you so-and-so is an invaluable part of the team and is making them a gazillion dollars in merch money, but that doesn't make it true, it just means that's the story they want to spin. So I'unno, I have no idea how one would actually measure Brie Larson's actual "worth" to the MCU franchise or how many people pay to see her specifically. I just have a gut feeling that she's not as important as SHE thinks she is.

Regardless, $15-20 million to play pretend in front of a green-screen is nonsense, just like whatever pro athletes earn to throw a ball is nonsense. I know that they "generate revenue" for their respective corporate overlords, but at the end of they day they contribute nothing to society of measurable value ("Joy" is not a quantifiable commodity ) and it's this kind of gross inequity that has us on the slippery slope we're presently on. I'm the single-biggest defender of the fee market economy you'll ever meet but even I have my limits. Stuff like this is bananas, to me.

The first Captain Marvel movie might have been a fluke. I didn't see it, so I can't speak to its quality -

You're not missing anything.

("Joy" is not a quantifiable commodity )

That's a really interesting point. I wonder just how necessary entertainment is for our well-being.

They'll tell you so-and-so is an invaluable part of the team and is making them a gazillion dollars in merch money

I'd thank you not to crap all over my Rose Tico collection, thank you. Her 12" figure comes with real deus ex machina action! I prize it almost as much as my Jar-Jar collection.

Joking aside, the difference between Rose Tico and Captain Marvel is that one is on the marquis, the other was a failed attempt at social commentary shoe horned into an already bloated and stupid story.

And while I agree with you on the whole matter, I wouldn't be surprised if she walks away with her asking price.

[Leo656]

I wouldn't be surprised either, just a little disappointed. Again, they gave RDJ like $30 million a shot near the end to show up on a weekend and do a few hours of green-screen, and then the very next project he does completely sh*ts the bed and costs the studio a ton of money. That makes Disney look like idiots, giving him all that money for no real reason other than, "Well, people hate recasting." They'd get over it. They piss and moan but they always do. People go to see the characters, but also, "The Brand", just like with WWE. Ant-Man, for example, ain't sh*t. Ant-Man was successful because it was "MCU Movie 48-C". If DC/WB had announced "The Atom" movie in 2016 people would have sh*t all over it, despite it being the exact same character, basically, but without the brand confidence. Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, and to some degree Captain Marvel all benefit more from that brand confidence than they do from being popular characters or being played by popular actors. To some degree, they were guaranteed to make a lot of money. If Captain Marvel was played by someone else, it might not have made a billion, but it also might've, simply for being The Next Marvel Movie.

Given that the actors themselves are bombing in other films, I have to believe that people are buying tickets to see Marvel stuff, NOT the actors. Otherwise, all of their non-MCU movies would do much better, if they were all that popular. So any studio giving them all this money when they're not really an invaluable asset... well, it's questionable, that's all. Ain't mad at 'em, just disappointed. One would like to think some things can still be based on merit.

I, too, often wonder out loud about how valuable things like "joy" and "happiness" are in the grand scheme of the human condition. For example: A lot of people love Nascar, for some reason, but can its existence really be justified if we're hypothetically "only a decade or so away from disaster"? What on Earth is more environmentally-wasteful than auto racing? BUT, if you suggest getting rid of it, people yell at you, because "It makes some people happy." Or golf. Millions of people are homeless, but if we took every inch of land being used for golf courses and turned it into shelters or low-cost housing, we could literally make room for every single human being. People call that "a ridiculous proposition', but IS IT so ridiculous? "Well, some people like golf." So it's weird, we choose to actively make the world a worse place so that "Some People" can have fun doing a thing that they - but not everyone - enjoys. In some ways, we put a premium on happiness over everything else, even when maybe we shouldn't. But in the end, what ARE these things, and the people who produce them, REALLY worth? And what SHOULD they be worth, given their value or detriment to society as a whole?

No easy answers, but it's definitely something I think a lot about.

This has been a stimulating conversation.
---------------------

Regarding Star Wars action figures, when I swung by Wal-Mart the other night, they had like a dozen Rey's out peg-warming. Rey as in "Rey The Main Character Whom Everyone Is Supposed To Care A Lot About And Be Huge Fans Of." Too early to say that despite making like $4 billion dollars with it they've still managed to sh*t the bed with this new trilogy? Yikes!

[Voltron]

Again, I agree completely with the characters vs. the actors. I have zero interest in Dr. Dolittle or Marriage Story. And it is mystifying that these guys command such huge pay days when they certainly aren't sure-fire bets at the box office.

I've always been mystified by the seeming blindness of Hollywood in that way. You're absolutely on the mark with people getting over the recasting, but the ideas that these producers green light and run with just boggle the mind.

I mean, someone read The Last Jedi and said "Yes." Meanwhile, my wife won't even let me order a pizza on Friday nights because of the financial implications. The whole world is bass ackwards, I tell ya.


As for Rey's peg-warming, that's a shame. It wasn't like the initial set up for these characters wasn't interesting. Disney went and crapped the bed and sold us a vanilla Mary Sue. Oh, well.

[Leo656]

I was all-in on the new characters by the end credits of Force Awakens. Not the best Star Wars movie but it left a lot of potential wide-open. I couldn't wait to see what they'd do next! Then what they did next was terrible, and by the end of Last Jedi I wanted them all dead and Luke back, instead.

A few minutes in when they'd already entirely negated all of Finn's character growth from the previous film and turned him into a deserting coward (again), I knew we were riding a sh*t slide. At the end of the movie I said to my wife, "I can't even care about this guy anymore, because for all I know, no matter what we just watched, in the next one he might be right back to Square One again." He'd already gone on a journey, learned stuff and grew as a person in the first movie, and then they took it all back immediately not two minutes into the next one! The writers had shown that they weren't above just going "Eh... nah!" when it came to "re-setting" characters like Finn or Han or even Luke into what they wanted them to be, even if that wasn't consistent with the overall narrative or even good storytelling in general. If they can't be bothered to care, why the f*ck should I? Why would I keep reading a book where every new chapter turns everyone into an idiot or an asshole again and completely ignores the stuff from the previous chapter?

And it's not like I have a problem with "flawed protagonists" either. It's in the execution, the writing, the character motivations. Superman and Batman in "Dawn of Justice" were "flawed protagonists"; every character in "The Last Jedi" was simply an Asshole or an Idiot, or both. And they can't ALL be that, anyway. WHO told Disney it was a good idea to make every single character in their billion-dollar tentpole flick an insufferable tw*t? The most likeable and relatable character by the end of it was the guy who had spent his entire middle age sucking alien cow tits in between moping about what a failure he was, for f*ck's sake, and he's the BEST of them! Holy SH*T.

.....Ahem. But, eh, no, yeah. I actually liked Rey and everybody else just fine, before... y'know, before THAT sh*t happened.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I was all-in on the new characters by the end credits of Force Awakens. Not the best Star Wars movie but it left a lot of potential wide-open. I couldn't wait to see what they'd do next! Then what they did next was terrible, and by the end of Last Jedi I wanted them all dead and Luke back, instead.

A few minutes in when they'd already entirely negated all of Finn's character growth from the previous film and turned him into a deserting coward (again), I knew we were riding a sh*t slide. At the end of the movie I said to my wife, "I can't even care about this guy anymore, because for all I know, no matter what we just watched, in the next one he might be right back to Square One again." He'd already gone on a journey, learned stuff and grew as a person in the first movie, and then they took it all back immediately not two minutes into the next one! The writers had shown that they weren't above just going "Eh... nah!" when it came to "re-setting" characters like Finn or Han or even Luke into what they wanted them to be, even if that wasn't consistent with the overall narrative or even good storytelling in general. If they can't be bothered to care, why the f*ck should I? Why would I keep reading a book where every new chapter turns everyone into an idiot or an asshole again and completely ignores the stuff from the previous chapter?

And it's not like I have a problem with "flawed protagonists" either. It's in the execution, the writing, the character motivations. Superman and Batman in "Dawn of Justice" were "flawed protagonists"; every character in "The Last Jedi" was simply an Asshole or an Idiot, or both. And they can't ALL be that, anyway. WHO told Disney it was a good idea to make every single character in their billion-dollar tentpole flick an insufferable tw*t? The most likeable and relatable character by the end of it was the guy who had spent his entire middle age sucking alien cow tits in between moping about what a failure he was, for f*ck's sake, and he's the BEST of them! Holy SH*T.

.....Ahem. But, eh, no, yeah. I actually liked Rey and everybody else just fine, before... y'know, before THAT sh*t happened.

A few minutes in when they'd already entirely negated all of Finn's character growth from the previous film and turned him into a deserting coward (again), I knew we were riding a sh*t slide. At the end of the movie I said to my wife, "I can't even care about this guy anymore, because for all I know, no matter what we just watched, in the next one he might be right back to Square One again." He'd already gone on a journey, learned stuff and grew as a person in the first movie, and then they took it all back immediately not two minutes into the next one! The writers had shown that they weren't above just going "Eh... nah!" when it came to "re-setting" characters like Finn or Han or even Luke into what they wanted them to be, even if that wasn't consistent with the overall narrative or even good storytelling in general. If they can't be bothered to care, why the f*ck should I? Why would I keep reading a book where every new chapter turns everyone into an idiot or an asshole again and completely ignores the stuff from the previous chapter?

Preach, brother. I couldn't have said it better.

And it's not like I have a problem with "flawed protagonists" either. It's in the execution, the writing, the character motivations. Superman and Batman in "Dawn of Justice" were "flawed protagonists"; every character in "The Last Jedi" was simply an Asshole or an Idiot, or both. And they can't ALL be that, anyway. WHO told Disney it was a good idea to make every single character in their billion-dollar tentpole flick an insufferable tw*t? The most likeable and relatable character by the end of it was the guy who had spent his entire middle age sucking alien cow tits in between moping about what a failure he was, for f*ck's sake, and he's the BEST of them! Holy SH*T.

To push this further, they'd really rub the symbolism of it in the audience's face. Like when Luke goes on a rant about the Force not being about lifting rocks. Then how does Rey save everyone? She uses the Force to lift some rocks.

On top of that, while everyone was a damn asshole or idiot, Rey had zero character development. Nothing was revealed about her. She faced no significant challenges. The closest she came to being in trouble was when Snoke (another worthless character that went no where) Force molested her.

That whole movie was a **** sandwich top to bottom. And The Rise of Skywalker had to spend the whole third act doing damage control. Which is a pity, because there the characters at least had some conflict and growth. Finn and Poe were pissy with each other. Rey loses hope. Hux hates Ben enough to betray the First Order. People had motives and personalities. Actions had consequences. It almost felt like a coherent story. Breaks my heart, really.

[AquaParade]

Interesting discussion.

What comes to my mind instantly is: Wouldn't they have roped Larson in for several movies as they do most of their actors, even the high profile ones? We have been under the belief that Joaquin would have played Dr. Strange if he could have signed on for one film at a time, so are we assuming they've changed their casting strategy?

Either way, the proof will be in the pudding, if this is the situation we are in, and I am betting Marvel will pay her what she wants, because the last film they made with her as their star made over a billion. Hard to negotiate around that, even if she isn't what propelled them there.

Personally, she rubs me the wrong way and I don't have much desire to see her in another solo movie. If it were up to me, she'd be the new "Hulk" for now. See if anyone can make her semi-interesting as a guest in an MCU film.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm thinking this will be "Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion," co-starring Spider-Man and probably others. Nick Fury again for sure.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm thinking this will be "Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion," co-starring Spider-Man and probably others. Nick Fury again for sure.

Why Spider-Man?

I've considered that as a potential slot for Marvel to use Spider-Man in as well, but is there a story or business related reason you have or just a gut feeling?

At first I thought they'd feature him in the next "Avengers" but I'm now thinking that is too far away for their current contract, so an appearance in another character's film does seem likely. Captain Marvel is def a fair guess. Could be Dr. Strange for all we know, as well. Maybe they'll kill two birds with one stone by using Kraven and Spider-Man in Black Panther 2 (Ryan Coogler initially wanted Kraven for BP1). Not where I'd place my money but an exciting proposition.

Personally, I've been wanting to see a team-up between Spider-Man & Black Widow. I just think that could be a dynamic relationship. You could bounce between Peter learning harsh truths and/or rejecting Black Widows more extreme methods (i.e. murder), with lighter moments of Peter completely crushing over Natasha and making a fool of himself in front of her.
I think that'd be a charming relationship to watch evolve, between Tom and Scarlett, as well as a film that offers something for everyone: Action, drama, comedy, sexy characters, Spider-Man.

I'll keep the dream alive in case they backpedal on BW's death in Endgame.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

All of the hubbub about that when Disney signed their latest deal with Sony for Spider-Man. That they wanted him in Captain Marvel 2.

Ah, I forgot where that came from, but it does ring a bell. Thanks.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Why Spider-Man?

I've considered that as a potential slot for Marvel to use Spider-Man in as well, but is there a story or business related reason you have or just a gut feeling?

All of the hubbub about that when Disney signed their latest deal with Sony for Spider-Man. That they wanted him in Captain Marvel 2.

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Personally, I've been wanting to see a team-up between Spider-Man & Black Widow.

I've love to see a buddy movie with Spider-Man and either Punisher or Deadpool.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I heard Larson is demanding at least $15 million to keep doing the role after this movie.

Anybody wanna show her the "Dolittle" receipts, just to remind her that no matter how big a "star" you are, if you're not playing "MCU Character 74-B" then nobody gives a f*ck about you?

I feel like these people are forgetting that. To put it into rasslin' terms, "YOU are not over, your gimmick is over." RDJ isn't over, Iron Man is over. Brie Larson isn't over; people don't go see her in non-Marvel movies. People don't go see ScarJo's movies just because she's in them.

These MCU actors are seriously painting themselves into a corner by incredibly overrating their own ability to draw a house without the MCU marketing push behind them. Not one of these people can "pop a buyrate" on their own; even the guys who play Captain America and Thor have had mixed results outside the Marvel bubble.

"I was in a billion dollar film! Pay me a ton of money or I'll go be in another movie instead for someone else, and it'll make a billion dollars because I'M in it!" Must be nice to have such an inflated sense of self-importance, but it doesn't actually work that way. Brie should slow her roll on this.

Anthony Mackie put it well when he said "There are no movie stars anymore," because the I.P.s are the stars.
https://twitter.com/Jade_Hoye/status...869912581?s=09

[Sumac]

RDJ is a good actor, but there were often cases when famous and well-paid actors had a lot of flops, because, of their over confidence in their star power and lack of sense, when it came to scripts.

ScarJo, it seems, manages to avoid this pitfalls, so far. Larson, not really sure.