Classic Episode Discussion: Son of Return of The Fly

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-27-2020, 02:17 PM

As requested I am making a new thread as I watch the episode and comment on it.
- David Wise wrote this episode like he did Bye, Bye Fly. Baxter appears as a mutant fly for the fourth of six times.
-The title always seemed weird to me like The Shredder is Splintered. This is the case of the writing team's love of 50s'/60s' sci-fi B films.
-This is the first episode produced for CBS if I am not mistaken, but Krang refers to a volcanic eruption which would have likely referred to A Dimension X Story fourteen episodes later. Anyone able to clarify that? Continuity issue.
-Baxter refers to them being in a dimensional limbo, but it does look a lot like Dimension X. It is funny how plot conveniences pop up in this show. Just as Baxter expresses depression over being stuck in limbo Baxter and Z come across a dimensional wormhole.
-I want to know how Z gaining a laptop form after the ship fell apart. It may not be essential, but I want to know!
- Referring to others who call the sewers their home Rat King and Leatherhead is mentioned. Leatherhead did stalk the sewers that one time looking for the TMNT after getting information. LH is mentioned as many times as he appears which gives reason for adventures to have taken place beaten episodes.
-Shredder laments that they cannot function without a computer. If only he knew the future!

-Baxter has developed a habit with sugar! I guess its an insect's drug.
- Z says "with your brains and my new body we can take over he world!". Baxter's intellect is increasingly dwiddling. Z is the brains of the operation! What is he talking about?
-I wonder if its the sugar addiction that is cuasing memory lapses with Baxter?
-The "c" of channel 6 looks like a pac man symbol. Probably a coincidence.
-People being replaced by computers, another 'if they only knew'.
-The computer technician who installed the new computer system refers to Burne as the owner of the station. There is one episode around this time where he is the station manager and the station owner has a nephew visit. Could we assume that Burne buys the station from his superior when he retires?
-Baxter in Return of The Fly grabbed April on his own. Now his shrinking intelligence can't remember her name, but a few seconds. It is funny though, "That is not even a woman" referring to Vernon.. "No, Baxter, that's not even a woman!She looks like this". Seconds later he ask Burne if he is June O'Neil.

-April tells Baxter she is busy and he responds by taking Vernon.

-Baxter and Z want the Turtles as bait for the Shredder so April is bait for the Turtles in turn.
-Energy rope gun? I don't think I have seen that weapon before or it ever is seen again. That would have worked better for Baxter The Fly boss battle in Turtles In Time instead of the slime hand out of the gun.
-I don't know if it was intended but the Turtles look like they are trapped in a cocoon when Baxter ties them up in the clock tower.
-Some great lines in under a minute's time. "Just our luck swatted by a fly!"-Raphael.- "I think I have been feeling a bit too geared up lately"-Michelangelo. "Some times I wish I had a fifth hand"-Baxter the fly. "Aw, don't fly off the handle Baxter".-Raphael. "No funny, not funny!"-Baxter the fly. "Nobody likes puns anymore"- Raphael. I love the dialogue of this show.
"Leave it to a fly to come up with a bug brained idea like making us bait"- Michelangelo.
-How does Shredder not immediately make the connection that Z is the same computer that was on the alien ship?
-When the Turtles make their escape from the clock tower they somehow land on their feet and then take off running without any reaction to physical pain? Lesser stunts have been done with repercussions!
-The destruction of property is brought up in this episode like it was in Enter: The Fly. This goes back and forth in the series and serves as a gag in this episode. Just like another issue that is is brought up in this episode, Shredder wants to be the one to kill the turtles because it is his right by ninja law. Others times he allows others to do it for him such as Night of The Rogues and Wrath of The Rat King among others while this episode plays with the idea it has to be him that kills them, which I prefer. Just not to the extent the Nicktoon Shredder does allowing himself and the planet to be destroyed just so he can be the one to say he killed Splinter.
-Mellish appears out of nowhere. Instead of just destroying it since it would ont serve any purpose but cause trouble the Turtles are peeved and Leo galdly presses the self-destruct button on Z as Baxter and Shredder tug of war over Z.
-Z is nothing more than a alien computer chip.
-The Turtles joke about Vernon's anxiety after being traumatized by Baxter The Fly. Is this the only time we see him in something other than his pink dress shirt?
- Splinter/Peter Renaday does not appear in this episode and is not even mentioned!On the rare occasion Splinter is absent it is mentioned that his is on a mediation retreat.

*Icebot* · 04-27-2020, 02:54 PM

Splinter is in the episode, he helped the turtles identify Baxter’s foot print.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 04-27-2020, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Anyone able to clarify that? Continuity issue.

All of Season 4 is a mess, as the cartoon somehow switched from syndication broadcasting to CBS during mid-season.

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-27-2020, 03:17 PM

Icebot, I wrote it at the beginning and forget to edit it out. Splinter has such a small role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

All of Season 4 is a mess, as the cartoon somehow switched from syndication broadcasting to CBS during mid-season.

Yes, I might not remember, but I was thinking it was two separate episodes we see the Turtles win the trip to Europe. I know that The Dimension X Story while episode 93 aired first on CBS, but in production order Son of Return of The Fly was the first for CBS. CBS should have started the 4th season instead of part of the way through it. Perhaps it is the change in networks that caused the misnumbering and no #76 being listed?

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 04-27-2020, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Yes, I might not remember, but I was thinking it was two separate episodes we see the Turtles win the trip to Europe.

The only time the turtles win a trip to Europe is the end of Plan 6 from Outer Space.

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-27-2020, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The only time the turtles win a trip to Europe is the end of Plan 6 from Outer Space.

-It appears that the change from syndication to Saturday morning threw the show into a production loop. The European Vacation takes places between the first and second episodes of the fourth season and air on Fox without European Vacation interruption. Yet after a dozen episodes switch networks and start with this episode production-wise yet A Dimension X Story which is a dozen episodes later airs first? Talk about a headache. Perhaps Bode got something wrong? I am a toddler at that point so I could not remember airing order and be able to tell production order. Also, it is weird that USA aired the European Vacation episodes instead of CBS. Also, no matter the amount of episodes or the network it aired the episodes were exhausted by New Year's Eve instead of mid May.

-I am surprised that there is not a reference to Z being the alien computer from the ship. David Wise did write both episodes after all.

*Icebot* · 04-27-2020, 04:04 PM

There is another episode other than the end of this one where Vernon wears something different: The Dimension X Story, he wore a formal suit when he gave an autograph.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 04-27-2020, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The European Vacation takes places between the first and second episodes of the fourth season

We don't know exactly when they take place. Just sometimes during season 4 (as the Technodrome is on the Volcanic Asteroid throughout the Vacation in Europe sideseason)

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-27-2020, 04:17 PM

I think I leaned more into the broadcast/production of the series a little too much. That could be a thread unto itself just like the substitute voice actors. Something to consider making a thread for. As for the episode itself. Thoughts on Z? Baxter's devolution and goals?

The banter at the clock tower and Baxter's failed attempts at grabbing April were the highlights of the episode for me.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 04-27-2020, 04:34 PM

Baxter always breaking the Channel Six walls had me rolling on the floor.

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-27-2020, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Baxter always breaking the Channel Six walls had me rolling on the floor.

You would not think that he had he strength to do that. Sure bugs have super strength for their size and all, but able to burst through a wall?

Burne tells Baxter where April is. I thought he might stand up for her or at least realizing Baxter is not bright dupe him. But instead he points in the correct direction. "Are you April? No that's not right May no..." all the way to September O'Neil.

"Straight down that hall,striaght down that hall, straight down that hall".

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 04-28-2020, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I am a toddler at that point so I could not remember airing order and be able to tell production order.

They originally aired in many European countries in 1992.

*Wesley* · 04-28-2020, 12:44 PM

Another very good Baxter-Fly ep for reasons already mentioned in this thread.

Was also hilarious that Krang got the transdimensional portal working by hitting the controls.

When this episode took place confused me as well when I was younger. I figure some time after “The Dimension X Story.”

Regarding the European Vacation eps, in Ireland they were placed between “Unidentified Flying Leonardo” and “My Brother, the Bad Guy”, at least in reruns. This ep was placed between “Once Upon a Time Machine” and “Raphael Knocks ‘Em Dead”. The Hokum Hare eps were placed between “Back to the Egg” and this ep. I was too young (6 or 7) to remember the original airing order.

*MrPliggins* · 04-29-2020, 06:27 AM

The original airing, at least in my area, was Big Cufflink Caper first as a primetime special. Then Dimension X Story and Donatello's Degree on the first Saturday of 1990. Son of Return of the Fly II and Raphael Meets His Match aired the second week. It was usually a "Shredder" episode paired with a "Turtle-centric" non-Shredder episode (with a Turtle Tips in betwee). I guess Dimension X story was further along in production order, but aired correctly.

Also in 1990-91 the new syndication episodes aired randomly, usually a random week of 5 new episodes. Airing order of the season was definitely not the same as the DVD order.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 04-29-2020, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley

When this episode took place confused me as well when I was younger. I figure some time after “The Dimension X Story.”

Mark Pellegrini tried to set up an episode viewing order on his blog back in January 2016.

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2016/...tles-1987.html

*Icebot* · 04-29-2020, 10:25 AM

When the 1991 season first aired on CBS where I live, they only aired the full 5th season (except Planet of the Turtleoids, Turtles and Hare and Once Upon A Time Machine) and some of the season 4 episodes. I think they were trying to fix the mistake of continuity between The Dimension X Story and Son of Return of The Fly. The order the episodes were aired are as follows:

New season of episodes begin:
My Brother The Bad Guy
Michaelangelo Meets Mondo Gecko
Enter Mutagen Man
Donatello’s Badd Time
Muckman
Michaelangelo Meets Bugman Again
Napoleon Colossus
Raphael versus the Volcano
Landlord of the Flies
Donatello’s Duplicate
The Ice Creature Cometh
Leonardo Cuts Loose
Pirate Radio
Raphael 1000 Faces
Zach and the Alien invaders
Leonardo the Renaissance turtle
Welcome back Polarisoids
Michaelangelo the Sacred Turtle

Then CBS began airing reruns in this order:
The Dimension X Story
Funny They Shrunk Michaelangelo
Son of Return of the Fly
The Big Cufflink Caper
Big Bug Blunder
Slash the evil turtle from Dimension X
Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer The Universe
Beyond The Donatello Nebula

*Wesley* · 04-29-2020, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Mark Pellegrini tried to set up an episode viewing order on his blog back in January 2016.

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2016/...tles-1987.html

Good find.

*MikeandRaph87* · 04-29-2020, 11:18 AM

It's cool to see someone able to remember. I am disappointed that the episodes were anywhere form 8 to 40 and are not in a consistent number and no matter the number were none before the year's end instead of May second or third weekend of May. It makes me wonder how contemporary cartoons were produced.

Any thoughts on Z? It was not clear as it is never addressed, but he is the alien ship's computer and then he is absent from Landlord of the Flies yet back in form in Revenge of The Fly.

*Wesley* · 04-29-2020, 11:31 AM

I liked Z. One of the better antagonists in the series. He worked well with Baxter and they had good chemistry imo.

*Icebot* · 04-29-2020, 11:49 AM

I thought Z was pretty cool. His voice is different though from the Bye Bye Fly computer so I was never sure if he were the same computer. I think Revenge of the Fly was written as if Landlord of the Flies never happened. Baxter gets stuck in limbo with Z at the end of SOROTF, no explanation for Z in LOTF, they seem to return from where they went in SOROTF in Revenge of the Fly.

04-27-2020, 02:17 PM	#1
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	Classic Episode Discussion: Son of Return of The Fly As requested I am making a new thread as I watch the episode and comment on it. - David Wise wrote this episode like he did Bye, Bye Fly. Baxter appears as a mutant fly for the fourth of six times. -The title always seemed weird to me like The Shredder is Splintered. This is the case of the writing team's love of 50s'/60s' sci-fi B films. -This is the first episode produced for CBS if I am not mistaken, but Krang refers to a volcanic eruption which would have likely referred to A Dimension X Story fourteen episodes later. Anyone able to clarify that? Continuity issue. -Baxter refers to them being in a dimensional limbo, but it does look a lot like Dimension X. It is funny how plot conveniences pop up in this show. Just as Baxter expresses depression over being stuck in limbo Baxter and Z come across a dimensional wormhole. -I want to know how Z gaining a laptop form after the ship fell apart. It may not be essential, but I want to know! - Referring to others who call the sewers their home Rat King and Leatherhead is mentioned. Leatherhead did stalk the sewers that one time looking for the TMNT after getting information. LH is mentioned as many times as he appears which gives reason for adventures to have taken place beaten episodes. -Shredder laments that they cannot function without a computer. If only he knew the future! -Baxter has developed a habit with sugar! I guess its an insect's drug. - Z says "with your brains and my new body we can take over he world!". Baxter's intellect is increasingly dwiddling. Z is the brains of the operation! What is he talking about? -I wonder if its the sugar addiction that is cuasing memory lapses with Baxter? -The "c" of channel 6 looks like a pac man symbol. Probably a coincidence. -People being replaced by computers, another 'if they only knew'. -The computer technician who installed the new computer system refers to Burne as the owner of the station. There is one episode around this time where he is the station manager and the station owner has a nephew visit. Could we assume that Burne buys the station from his superior when he retires? -Baxter in Return of The Fly grabbed April on his own. Now his shrinking intelligence can't remember her name, but a few seconds. It is funny though, "That is not even a woman" referring to Vernon.. "No, Baxter, that's not even a woman!She looks like this". Seconds later he ask Burne if he is June O'Neil. -April tells Baxter she is busy and he responds by taking Vernon. -Baxter and Z want the Turtles as bait for the Shredder so April is bait for the Turtles in turn. -Energy rope gun? I don't think I have seen that weapon before or it ever is seen again. That would have worked better for Baxter The Fly boss battle in Turtles In Time instead of the slime hand out of the gun. -I don't know if it was intended but the Turtles look like they are trapped in a cocoon when Baxter ties them up in the clock tower. -Some great lines in under a minute's time. "Just our luck swatted by a fly!"-Raphael.- "I think I have been feeling a bit too geared up lately"-Michelangelo. "Some times I wish I had a fifth hand"-Baxter the fly. "Aw, don't fly off the handle Baxter".-Raphael. "No funny, not funny!"-Baxter the fly. "Nobody likes puns anymore"- Raphael. I love the dialogue of this show. "Leave it to a fly to come up with a bug brained idea like making us bait"- Michelangelo. -How does Shredder not immediately make the connection that Z is the same computer that was on the alien ship? -When the Turtles make their escape from the clock tower they somehow land on their feet and then take off running without any reaction to physical pain? Lesser stunts have been done with repercussions! -The destruction of property is brought up in this episode like it was in Enter: The Fly. This goes back and forth in the series and serves as a gag in this episode. Just like another issue that is is brought up in this episode, Shredder wants to be the one to kill the turtles because it is his right by ninja law. Others times he allows others to do it for him such as Night of The Rogues and Wrath of The Rat King among others while this episode plays with the idea it has to be him that kills them, which I prefer. Just not to the extent the Nicktoon Shredder does allowing himself and the planet to be destroyed just so he can be the one to say he killed Splinter. -Mellish appears out of nowhere. Instead of just destroying it since it would ont serve any purpose but cause trouble the Turtles are peeved and Leo galdly presses the self-destruct button on Z as Baxter and Shredder tug of war over Z. -Z is nothing more than a alien computer chip. -The Turtles joke about Vernon's anxiety after being traumatized by Baxter The Fly. Is this the only time we see him in something other than his pink dress shirt? - Splinter/Peter Renaday does not appear in this episode and is not even mentioned!On the rare occasion Splinter is absent it is mentioned that his is on a mediation retreat. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

04-27-2020, 04:17 PM	#9
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	I think I leaned more into the broadcast/production of the series a little too much. That could be a thread unto itself just like the substitute voice actors. Something to consider making a thread for. As for the episode itself. Thoughts on Z? Baxter's devolution and goals? The banter at the clock tower and Baxter's failed attempts at grabbing April were the highlights of the episode for me. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

04-28-2020, 12:44 PM	#13
Wesley Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 1,597	Another very good Baxter-Fly ep for reasons already mentioned in this thread. Was also hilarious that Krang got the transdimensional portal working by hitting the controls. When this episode took place confused me as well when I was younger. I figure some time after “The Dimension X Story.” Regarding the European Vacation eps, in Ireland they were placed between “Unidentified Flying Leonardo” and “My Brother, the Bad Guy”, at least in reruns. This ep was placed between “Once Upon a Time Machine” and “Raphael Knocks ‘Em Dead”. The Hokum Hare eps were placed between “Back to the Egg” and this ep. I was too young (6 or 7) to remember the original airing order. __________________ Donatello: The tracker! It might work. Donatello goes to the back of the Turtle Van Raphael: Shrewd move, Donatello. If we ignore the problem, it might go away by itself. (from The Mean Machines) Last edited by Wesley; 04-29-2020 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Added line

04-29-2020, 11:18 AM	#18
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	It's cool to see someone able to remember. I am disappointed that the episodes were anywhere form 8 to 40 and are not in a consistent number and no matter the number were none before the year's end instead of May second or third weekend of May. It makes me wonder how contemporary cartoons were produced. Any thoughts on Z? It was not clear as it is never addressed, but he is the alien ship's computer and then he is absent from Landlord of the Flies yet back in form in Revenge of The Fly. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

04-29-2020, 11:31 AM	#19
Wesley Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 1,597	I liked Z. One of the better antagonists in the series. He worked well with Baxter and they had good chemistry imo. __________________ Donatello: The tracker! It might work. Donatello goes to the back of the Turtle Van Raphael: Shrewd move, Donatello. If we ignore the problem, it might go away by itself. (from The Mean Machines)

04-27-2020, 02:54 PM	#2
Icebot Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 3,225	Splinter is in the episode, he helped the turtles identify Baxter’s foot print.

04-27-2020, 04:04 PM	#7
Icebot Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 3,225	There is another episode other than the end of this one where Vernon wears something different: The Dimension X Story, he wore a formal suit when he gave an autograph.

04-29-2020, 06:27 AM	#14
MrPliggins Foot Elite Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,050	The original airing, at least in my area, was Big Cufflink Caper first as a primetime special. Then Dimension X Story and Donatello's Degree on the first Saturday of 1990. Son of Return of the Fly II and Raphael Meets His Match aired the second week. It was usually a "Shredder" episode paired with a "Turtle-centric" non-Shredder episode (with a Turtle Tips in betwee). I guess Dimension X story was further along in production order, but aired correctly. Also in 1990-91 the new syndication episodes aired randomly, usually a random week of 5 new episodes. Airing order of the season was definitely not the same as the DVD order.

04-29-2020, 10:25 AM	#16
Icebot Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 3,225	When the 1991 season first aired on CBS where I live, they only aired the full 5th season (except Planet of the Turtleoids, Turtles and Hare and Once Upon A Time Machine) and some of the season 4 episodes. I think they were trying to fix the mistake of continuity between The Dimension X Story and Son of Return of The Fly. The order the episodes were aired are as follows: New season of episodes begin: My Brother The Bad Guy Michaelangelo Meets Mondo Gecko Enter Mutagen Man Donatello’s Badd Time Muckman Michaelangelo Meets Bugman Again Napoleon Colossus Raphael versus the Volcano Landlord of the Flies Donatello’s Duplicate The Ice Creature Cometh Leonardo Cuts Loose Pirate Radio Raphael 1000 Faces Zach and the Alien invaders Leonardo the Renaissance turtle Welcome back Polarisoids Michaelangelo the Sacred Turtle Then CBS began airing reruns in this order: The Dimension X Story Funny They Shrunk Michaelangelo Son of Return of the Fly The Big Cufflink Caper Big Bug Blunder Slash the evil turtle from Dimension X Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer The Universe Beyond The Donatello Nebula

04-29-2020, 11:49 AM	#20
Icebot Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 3,225	I thought Z was pretty cool. His voice is different though from the Bye Bye Fly computer so I was never sure if he were the same computer. I think Revenge of the Fly was written as if Landlord of the Flies never happened. Baxter gets stuck in limbo with Z at the end of SOROTF, no explanation for Z in LOTF, they seem to return from where they went in SOROTF in Revenge of the Fly.