Are Robotic Foot Ninja even a good idea?

*neatoman* · 03-12-2021, 07:13 PM

In two of the cartoons, most of the Foot Ninja we saw were actually androids. The real world justification is that the Turtles shouldn't be shown to slice up human beings on a kids' show, which makes some sense, why even use blades if they're only gonna knock out the enemy? But there are some problems with this and the solution is somewhat shortsighted.

First off, it assumes the Foot Ninja are the only things they would be fighting. Quite a lot of the time they are also shown fighting aliens, mutants, demons and other things that could easily have been shown to bleed any color other than red, or not even be made of flesh and blood in the first place. And of course, there are fights against other types of robots, so there isn't much of a need to make the Ninja robots just to cut open the enemy.

The second and perhaps more important problem with the Robotic Foot Ninja is what it does for the world building. The notion of a ninja clan conjures up the idea of some devoted group of people, with loyalty to either a master or a cause, with some sense of tradition and hierarchy. If most or all of the members are robotic and therefore replaceable on the other hand, what does that mean? If it just comes down to some guy with an indefinite army of robots, then why even bother modelling it on ninja?

*sdp* · 03-12-2021, 07:28 PM

Robot Ninjas are cool as we saw in Mortal Kombat

The problem in the 1987 show is that they have human hands but are robots? That's dumb, they should just wear gloves, that really bothers me to have the human hands if they're robots. The other problem is they were made so the turtles could slice them up and yet this is rarely done in the original show so why even bother to make them robots if they were still not going to be slicing them up the majority of the cartoon..

2012 switched to Robot ninjas and it was cool but it was done too early and then the rest of the seasons we were left with only robot ninjas and no human ones. I feel they should be introduced as a "stronger" varient with the original human ninjas still there. I missed the turtles fighting human opponents in 2012.

*CyberCubed* · 03-12-2021, 08:03 PM

It obviously makes sense if you want to see Leonardo and Raphael actually use their blades and slice into Foot, which they obviously can't do if they're human.

~~Leo656~~ · 03-12-2021, 09:08 PM

One of my biggest problems with the writing of the FW TMNT show is this right here. Let me say upfront, YES, I completely understand the real-world "Why" of it.

But think about it for just a second... in the FW TMNT universe, someone (be it Shredder, Krang, Stockman, some combination thereof) cracked the code for "Terminator" technology, more or less... and they're just completely useless cannon fodder, barely suitable for even the most mundane tasks.

Like it might be a neat workaround for not being able to show graphic violence, IF they weren't basically just cardboard cutouts to be knocked over by a stiff breeze. Like if they were actually hard to fight or something, that could've been cool. "Robot ninja assassins" SOUNDS kind of cool... until you see the execution and it's like "Oh, never mind."

And they never get upgraded, modified or replaced in any significant way for the show's entire run. They're completely useless, we're shown this in their very first appearance, and yet Shredder and Krang never make any significant attempts to do better. "Maybe THIS, the 937th time we send these robot retards after the Turtles, will be the time they finally succeed!" Like no, man, they're busted... come up with something else.

It just makes Shredder and Krang both look like morons, that this is the "best" they can do and they never really apply themselves towards doing better. Makes me think they're not actually serious about taking over the world, or... whatever the hell their "grand plans" were on that show. They deserve to fail because they immediately stopped applying themselves and learned nothing from any of their defeats.

Much of this also applies to Bebop and Rocksteady, who in a world where logic reigned would have been killed after their first or second (if not 352nd) failure. IF Shredder were a serious villain and not a chucklehead in a B&D ninja costume.

*Prowler* · 03-12-2021, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It obviously makes sense if you want to see Leonardo and Raphael actually use their blades and slice into Foot, which they obviously can't do if they're human.

Funny enough, the Turtles didn't really fight those robots that often thoroughout the entire show. And those robots were basically cannon fodder, anyway. Even Bebop and Rocksteady, as incompetent as they were, posed more of a threat at times.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 03-12-2021, 09:17 PM

Robotic Foot Soldiers can easily be mass produced and replaced, unlike humans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

If it just comes down to some guy with an indefinite army of robots, then why even bother modelling it on ninja?

Well Shredder himself is a Ninja who has affinity for his clan, so of course he would model the robots based on them.

~~Leo656~~ · 03-12-2021, 09:27 PM

That can NOT be cheap. I don't wanna even think about how much cost and labor is involved in building ONE robot soldier, let alone an army's worth. Jesus. There's gotta be an easier way to do things. Oroku Saki is an idiot.

Also... if Shredder wanted money and power so bad, he could have sold the patent for his "dollar store Terminators" to someone like Microsoft (or whatever the in-universe equivalent would have been). He'd be a bazillionaire and in turn be able to do whatever he wanted with no repercussions.

It always drives me nuts in these old cartoons where the bad guys create technology that would literally change the entire world, like force field generators, teleporters, shrinking rays, and yes, even robot "people"... and in their shortsightedness they only apply them in the dumbest and least-productive ways you could think of, like "Getting those blasted reptiles once and for all!"

Like dude, if you invented (or even just went public with the technology for) a teleporter, a mobile subterranean drilling module, or a cyborg soldier, you'd immediately be the most important guy who ever lived. You want money? Power? Just cash in on that sh*t, all your problems would be solved. Instead this idiot's out there robbing banks!

Just some total "I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs!" nonsense. And people wonder why some folks insist that this show (and other cartoons) have "bad writing"; everything completely falls apart if you think about any of it at all for like, 30 seconds.

*Prowler* · 03-12-2021, 10:13 PM

But Shredder and Krang didn't just want money and power. They wanted to conquer Earth.

...why? Who knows really. I can understand Krang wanting to do it since he's a warlord and that's kinda his deal: building an empire. But Shredder? Why would a mere ninja master from Japan want to take over the world? Wasn't taking over the Foot Clan enough already? I van understand him wanting to kill the Turtles and Splinter but he does not need to take over the world for that lmao

*Coola Yagami* · 03-12-2021, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

That can NOT be cheap. I don't wanna even think about how much cost and labor is involved in building ONE robot soldier, let alone an army's worth. Jesus. There's gotta be an easier way to do things. Oroku Saki is an idiot.

Also... if Shredder wanted money and power so bad, he could have sold the patent for his "dollar store Terminators" to someone like Microsoft (or whatever the in-universe equivalent would have been). He'd be a bazillionaire and in turn be able to do whatever he wanted with no repercussions.

It always drives me nuts in these old cartoons where the bad guys create technology that would literally change the entire world, like force field generators, teleporters, shrinking rays, and yes, even robot "people"... and in their shortsightedness they only apply them in the dumbest and least-productive ways you could think of, like "Getting those blasted reptiles once and for all!"

Like dude, if you invented (or even just went public with the technology for) a teleporter, a mobile subterranean drilling module, or a cyborg soldier, you'd immediately be the most important guy who ever lived. You want money? Power? Just cash in on that sh*t, all your problems would be solved. Instead this idiot's out there robbing banks!

Just some total "I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs!" nonsense. And people wonder why some folks insist that this show (and other cartoons) have "bad writing"; everything completely falls apart if you think about any of it at all for like, 30 seconds.

"Raaaaahhh!!! Those blasted turtles! One of these days I'm going to send them a bill for all those robot parts..."

*neatoman* · 03-13-2021, 07:39 AM

As a little side note here, the in-universe justification in the 2012 is a bit weird. The initial idea was that the robots could learn to defend themselves against any threat almost immediately, but it doesn't take long before the turtles chop them up effortlessly on a regular basis. That makes no sense, it would be like if those ordering machines at McDonald's suddenly started to ask "Could you repeat that?" three times more often than a human cashier, there is no logical reason why it would start to do that.

~~ABrown~~ · 03-13-2021, 09:35 AM

Shredder in the episode "Enter the Shredder": "if you wish to join the honorable Foot Clan"

Me: "that's not the Foot Clan, that's just you and a bunch of robots"

Would've been kind of interesting to see what came of the ACTUAL Foot Clan after Shredder followed Yoshi to America.

*Coola Yagami* · 03-13-2021, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

As a little side note here, the in-universe justification in the 2012 is a bit weird. The initial idea was that the robots could learn to defend themselves against any threat almost immediately, but it doesn't take long before the turtles chop them up effortlessly on a regular basis. That makes no sense, it would be like if those ordering machines at McDonald's suddenly started to ask "Could you repeat that?" three times more often than a human cashier, there is no logical reason why it would start to do that.

The 2012 show was full of enemies that seemed way too strong or evenly matched with the Turtles in their first outings and then can be taken down like nothing in following episodes. At least Tiger Claw kept his 'power level' high for most of the series.

*neatoman* · 03-13-2021, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The 2012 show was full of enemies that seemed way too strong or evenly matched with the Turtles in their first outings and then can be taken down like nothing in following episodes. At least Tiger Claw kept his 'power level' high for most of the series.

Sure but that has nothing to with why robots designed to always learn to be better fighters instead become worse fighters as time passes by.

*IndigoErth* · 03-14-2021, 06:14 PM

It's a reasonable idea that works fine, though you have a good point about the lack of world building and I guess the general stakes of it I guess if there is no real Foot Clan dedicated to a cause.

I'm fine with the robots, they meet the needs of a show that must obey the required restrictions, but in the future they aught to consider more how they're being utilized.

They could make it 50/50 with real Foot Clan members and robots, but make the robots AI and a bit less mechanical... but still just enough to squeak by the censors. They could have the Turtles "killing" the robots as a means to weaken the human Foot soldiers, rather than actually intending to kill any living humans, only weaken and wound them so they give up the fight.

I know I've mentioned the scene before, but I find it striking the difference between the FW Turtles "killing" the robot Foot soldiers and the ep where Leo "kills" Herman the Horrible. By the time Leo hacks off both of Herman's heads he is already aware that it/they are only a robot, however, unlike the Foot robots, Herman is still talking like a living thing, something the Foot bots don't do and makes their "killing" less impactful, and it's a little surprising as it comes across like a living thing being killed in that show. (Plus, Leo had no way of knowing where the bad Turtleoids were located in that thing, he could have killed them by mistake, but he just happily hacks the robot heads right off.)

I find the Herman scene pretty on par with that of 2012 killing the "tongue Shredder" on screen. Maybe not the real Shredder and (part of) a "monster" so deemed acceptable to kill, but a living thing and done on screen.

Upping the robots to being AI, rather than unthinking machines responding to commands, could be an improvement. And would play on modern fears of AI taking over, with our heroes playing a bit of social commentary on that.

*Powder* · 03-14-2021, 07:28 PM

There's a time & place for it, which isn't in n Adult-aimed iteration unless they are a secondary option. They, much like the origami ninjas, came into existence solely that the TMNT could slice & dice 'em the way they would in Mirage, without upsetting parents/censors. They're both cool novelties in a series which has content handicaps. Outside of that, meh.

03-12-2021, 07:28 PM	#2
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,222	Robot Ninjas are cool as we saw in Mortal Kombat The problem in the 1987 show is that they have human hands but are robots? That's dumb, they should just wear gloves, that really bothers me to have the human hands if they're robots. The other problem is they were made so the turtles could slice them up and yet this is rarely done in the original show so why even bother to make them robots if they were still not going to be slicing them up the majority of the cartoon.. 2012 switched to Robot ninjas and it was cool but it was done too early and then the rest of the seasons we were left with only robot ninjas and no human ones. I feel they should be introduced as a "stronger" varient with the original human ninjas still there. I missed the turtles fighting human opponents in 2012. __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server

03-14-2021, 06:14 PM	#14
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,296	It's a reasonable idea that works fine, though you have a good point about the lack of world building and I guess the general stakes of it I guess if there is no real Foot Clan dedicated to a cause. I'm fine with the robots, they meet the needs of a show that must obey the required restrictions, but in the future they aught to consider more how they're being utilized. They could make it 50/50 with real Foot Clan members and robots, but make the robots AI and a bit less mechanical... but still just enough to squeak by the censors. They could have the Turtles "killing" the robots as a means to weaken the human Foot soldiers, rather than actually intending to kill any living humans, only weaken and wound them so they give up the fight. I know I've mentioned the scene before, but I find it striking the difference between the FW Turtles "killing" the robot Foot soldiers and the ep where Leo "kills" Herman the Horrible. By the time Leo hacks off both of Herman's heads he is already aware that it/they are only a robot, however, unlike the Foot robots, Herman is still talking like a living thing, something the Foot bots don't do and makes their "killing" less impactful, and it's a little surprising as it comes across like a living thing being killed in that show. (Plus, Leo had no way of knowing where the bad Turtleoids were located in that thing, he could have killed them by mistake, but he just happily hacks the robot heads right off.) I find the Herman scene pretty on par with that of 2012 killing the "tongue Shredder" on screen. Maybe not the real Shredder and (part of) a "monster" so deemed acceptable to kill, but a living thing and done on screen. Upping the robots to being AI, rather than unthinking machines responding to commands, could be an improvement. And would play on modern fears of AI taking over, with our heroes playing a bit of social commentary on that. Last edited by IndigoErth; 03-14-2021 at 06:22 PM.

03-12-2021, 08:03 PM	#3
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,881	It obviously makes sense if you want to see Leonardo and Raphael actually use their blades and slice into Foot, which they obviously can't do if they're human.

03-12-2021, 09:08 PM	#4
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	One of my biggest problems with the writing of the FW TMNT show is this right here. Let me say upfront, YES, I completely understand the real-world "Why" of it. But think about it for just a second... in the FW TMNT universe, someone (be it Shredder, Krang, Stockman, some combination thereof) cracked the code for "Terminator" technology, more or less... and they're just completely useless cannon fodder, barely suitable for even the most mundane tasks. Like it might be a neat workaround for not being able to show graphic violence, IF they weren't basically just cardboard cutouts to be knocked over by a stiff breeze. Like if they were actually hard to fight or something, that could've been cool. "Robot ninja assassins" SOUNDS kind of cool... until you see the execution and it's like "Oh, never mind." And they never get upgraded, modified or replaced in any significant way for the show's entire run. They're completely useless, we're shown this in their very first appearance, and yet Shredder and Krang never make any significant attempts to do better. "Maybe THIS, the 937th time we send these robot retards after the Turtles, will be the time they finally succeed!" Like no, man, they're busted... come up with something else. It just makes Shredder and Krang both look like morons, that this is the "best" they can do and they never really apply themselves towards doing better. Makes me think they're not actually serious about taking over the world, or... whatever the hell their "grand plans" were on that show. They deserve to fail because they immediately stopped applying themselves and learned nothing from any of their defeats. Much of this also applies to Bebop and Rocksteady, who in a world where logic reigned would have been killed after their first or second (if not 352nd) failure. IF Shredder were a serious villain and not a chucklehead in a B&D ninja costume.

03-12-2021, 09:27 PM	#7
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	That can NOT be cheap. I don't wanna even think about how much cost and labor is involved in building ONE robot soldier, let alone an army's worth. Jesus. There's gotta be an easier way to do things. Oroku Saki is an idiot. Also... if Shredder wanted money and power so bad, he could have sold the patent for his "dollar store Terminators" to someone like Microsoft (or whatever the in-universe equivalent would have been). He'd be a bazillionaire and in turn be able to do whatever he wanted with no repercussions. It always drives me nuts in these old cartoons where the bad guys create technology that would literally change the entire world, like force field generators, teleporters, shrinking rays, and yes, even robot "people"... and in their shortsightedness they only apply them in the dumbest and least-productive ways you could think of, like "Getting those blasted reptiles once and for all!" Like dude, if you invented (or even just went public with the technology for) a teleporter, a mobile subterranean drilling module, or a cyborg soldier, you'd immediately be the most important guy who ever lived. You want money? Power? Just cash in on that sh*t, all your problems would be solved. Instead this idiot's out there robbing banks! Just some total "I don't want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs!" nonsense. And people wonder why some folks insist that this show (and other cartoons) have "bad writing"; everything completely falls apart if you think about any of it at all for like, 30 seconds.

03-12-2021, 10:13 PM	#8
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	But Shredder and Krang didn't just want money and power. They wanted to conquer Earth. ...why? Who knows really. I can understand Krang wanting to do it since he's a warlord and that's kinda his deal: building an empire. But Shredder? Why would a mere ninja master from Japan want to take over the world? Wasn't taking over the Foot Clan enough already? I van understand him wanting to kill the Turtles and Splinter but he does not need to take over the world for that lmao

03-13-2021, 09:35 AM	#11
~~ABrown~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,831	Shredder in the episode "Enter the Shredder": "if you wish to join the honorable Foot Clan" Me: "that's not the Foot Clan, that's just you and a bunch of robots" Would've been kind of interesting to see what came of the ACTUAL Foot Clan after Shredder followed Yoshi to America.

03-14-2021, 07:28 PM	#15
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,956	There's a time & place for it, which isn't in n Adult-aimed iteration unless they are a secondary option. They, much like the origami ninjas, came into existence solely that the TMNT could slice & dice 'em the way they would in Mirage, without upsetting parents/censors. They're both cool novelties in a series which has content handicaps. Outside of that, meh.