Why is Donatello's head becoming so "narrow" in recent animation?

jignat · 03-20-2021, 09:10 AM

In Batman vs TMNT (2019), Don's head is significantly narrower compared to the others. I have the comic tpb and the turtles all have the same head shape in that as drawn by Freddy Williams.

I havent seen Rise, but his character design also has a narrow head.

So are animators just experimenting or is going to be a new trend for Don in upcoming media?

Or are they trying for some inverse reasoning like the smartest one has the smallest cranium?

*newfan* · 03-20-2021, 09:19 AM

No idea if it will be a thing going forward but yeah the Batman v TMNT really stands out, every time I see it I think 'man, Donnie's head' Rise is supposed to have more variation in designs but he did get the odd shape here too. I think the shape in 2012 is only very mildly kinda ..longer shapish so not really standing out. Thinking of PD, was it a little thinner there too? Again not really standing out.

*IndigoErth* · 03-20-2021, 10:48 AM

Yeah, that's pretty ironic giving the smart guy a small head. Rather weird and not a fan of it going as far as it did with that Batman vs. TMNT film and Rise.

I've assumed it's just more in line with trying to push the "skinny nerd" concept on him. A narrower head to go with a narrower body and probably trying to make Raph and, to a slightly lesser extent, Leo look tougher in comparison with wider jawlines. (And Mikey often kind of in between of course, or with similar width of the other two but rounder.)

2012 isn't so much this issue imo because if you compare the four Donnie's head isn't so much narrower as it simply is more rounded up top, with more brain space, vs the other three having flatter heads.

PD Donnie is a leaner guy than his siblings, but proportionally his head to body size looks normal. Batman vs TMNT and Rise are the worst offenders though and it just looks weird and one of the things they need to stop doing. I like some variation in their looks, but it shouldn't be that extreme.

*IMJ* · 03-20-2021, 10:59 AM

I don't mind the differentiation. As far as physicality, TMNT '12 did it best so far, IMHO.

*frank_one* · 03-20-2021, 11:20 AM

Because they don't know better than using body stereotypes to give characterization to the turtles.

*IMJ* · 03-20-2021, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank_one

Because they don't know better than using body stereotypes to give characterization to the turtles.

Is that wrong to do? Some stereotypes show patterns for a reason. That's why they are stereotypes. Some stereotypes convey information too - and often with some degree of accuracy enough to make a generalization.

It's been my experience that the new "stereotype" is a blanket way of thinking that "stereotypes = bad and wrong".

Ironic, because that's actually stereotypical of another way of thinking.......

*Zulithe* · 03-20-2021, 03:16 PM

they are intent on making him look nerdy which is a mistake IMO. Donatello already is the least popular turtle and they aren't helping the situation by giving him the worst looking design.

I know Don has a ton of fans, but let's be real here. Leo, Raph and Mike all are more popular almost all of the time.

Contemporary nerds don't easily fit into the stereotype of unattractive, weird looking dorks. They come in all shapes and sizes. I think they need to do a little better in how they portray Don. It's possible to do it in a way that's both nerdy AND cool, without making it offputting.

2012 Nick Don balanced it well part of the time, but the April romance subplot was laid on so thick that I think it still turned a lot of people off. Nobody wants to stan a horndog.

I do support the idea of the four turtles having slightly different designs. But can we please do it in a way that doesn't make Don the worst turtle for once.

*IndigoErth* · 03-20-2021, 03:46 PM

Stereotypes existing for a reason or not... should it continue to be applied to Donnie. His interests might, in his brothers' eyes, make him the geekier of the bunch, but he was the smart tech guy who knew his stuff and made it look cool, showing that it's not something that is only exclusive to people with an outwardly nerdy demeanor.

But they've kind pushed the cool tech guy into being the somewhat less physically capable nerd the same way they've pushed laid back Mikey into becoming dumb Mikey.

If Raph works out the most and that makes him the most brawny and Leo is himself pretty built and fit because he trains the most and his martial arts is in good part a way of life to him, that makes sense... but they all still do those things, so the variation should be noticeable, but only in a way that's subtle.

And either way... even if siblings can vary in build, head shape, as per the original topic, is probably the least likely to be so extremely different, so it's quite odd to go too far on that. Even siblings with a different build are more often than not still going to share some resemblance.

Rise may have thrown a wrench in it and be excused by making them different species and not blood siblings, but they're presumably blood siblings in other versions. So unless there was a genetic abnormality... the Batman vs TMNT in particular is odd.

Can we maybe get more of a 87/03 style Donnie back, as far as animation goes.

*IMJ* · 03-20-2021, 03:51 PM

As a kid I always liked those moments where Don's strikes were on display as being generally stronger than anyone else's. The TMNT NES game, the scene where he takes the gem out of it's placement in Krang's android body - stuff like that. I always thought it was sort of a neat highlight to his nerddom.

But the stereotypical nerd thing has been placed on the character with greater ambition in the more recent incarnations for sure.

~~Leo656~~ · 03-20-2021, 04:32 PM

The head thing is also weird because in the 1990 movie he kinda had the widest head/face. It's strange to see it done pretty much the opposite.

*newfan* · 03-20-2021, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

The head thing is also weird because in the 1990 movie he kinda had the widest head/face. It's strange to see it done pretty much the opposite.

I was thinking the same thing, and it was my lesser favourite shape out of the 4 there too, though no issues with it.

*Prowler* · 03-21-2021, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMJ

As a kid I always liked those moments where Don's strikes were on display as being generally stronger than anyone else's. The TMNT NES game, the scene where he takes the gem out of it's placement in Krang's android body - stuff like that. I always thought it was sort of a neat highlight to his nerddom.

But the stereotypical nerd thing has been placed on the character with greater ambition in the more recent incarnations for sure.

Yes, the FW incarnation of Donatello is probably the strongest version of the character after Mirage. He was a "nerd", but also had a temper and didn't back down from a fight. Not to mention he almost seemed like the leader of the group instead of Leonardo sometimes.

2k3 Don wasn't bad, but he was more quiet and it was often subtly implied he was the weakest fighter of the Turtles. That's silly because strength and good fighting skills aren't correlated with intelligence. But that's something kids cartoons like to push for some reason. Kinda like when there's 2 bad guys and they make the tall one dumb as a brick and the short one the brain.

~~Leo656~~ · 03-21-2021, 01:36 AM

Regardless of any "stereotype"-related reasons, I just think it's a bad look. Like somebody "squished" his head. Just looks dumb.

*Prowler* · 03-21-2021, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Regardless of any "stereotype"-related reasons, I just think it's a bad look. Like somebody "squished" his head. Just looks dumb.

Agreed.

10 characters.

*neatoman* · 03-21-2021, 06:38 AM

03-20-2021, 09:10 AM	#1
jignat Foot Soldier Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 161	Why is Donatello's head becoming so "narrow" in recent animation? In Batman vs TMNT (2019), Don's head is significantly narrower compared to the others. I have the comic tpb and the turtles all have the same head shape in that as drawn by Freddy Williams. I havent seen Rise, but his character design also has a narrow head. So are animators just experimenting or is going to be a new trend for Don in upcoming media? Or are they trying for some inverse reasoning like the smartest one has the smallest cranium?

03-20-2021, 09:19 AM	#2
newfan Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: UK Posts: 2,393	No idea if it will be a thing going forward but yeah the Batman v TMNT really stands out, every time I see it I think 'man, Donnie's head' Rise is supposed to have more variation in designs but he did get the odd shape here too. I think the shape in 2012 is only very mildly kinda ..longer shapish so not really standing out. Thinking of PD, was it a little thinner there too? Again not really standing out. Last edited by newfan; 03-20-2021 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Didn't like how I worded first response.

03-20-2021, 10:59 AM	#4
IMJ Emperor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest, U.S.A. Posts: 8,806	I don't mind the differentiation. As far as physicality, TMNT '12 did it best so far, IMHO. __________________ Wave 1 Collectibles Online Market Watch Blog Collection Photography

03-20-2021, 03:46 PM	#8
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,288	Stereotypes existing for a reason or not... should it continue to be applied to Donnie. His interests might, in his brothers' eyes, make him the geekier of the bunch, but he was the smart tech guy who knew his stuff and made it look cool, showing that it's not something that is only exclusive to people with an outwardly nerdy demeanor. But they've kind pushed the cool tech guy into being the somewhat less physically capable nerd the same way they've pushed laid back Mikey into becoming dumb Mikey. If Raph works out the most and that makes him the most brawny and Leo is himself pretty built and fit because he trains the most and his martial arts is in good part a way of life to him, that makes sense... but they all still do those things, so the variation should be noticeable, but only in a way that's subtle. And either way... even if siblings can vary in build, head shape, as per the original topic, is probably the least likely to be so extremely different, so it's quite odd to go too far on that. Even siblings with a different build are more often than not still going to share some resemblance. Rise may have thrown a wrench in it and be excused by making them different species and not blood siblings, but they're presumably blood siblings in other versions. So unless there was a genetic abnormality... the Batman vs TMNT in particular is odd. Can we maybe get more of a 87/03 style Donnie back, as far as animation goes. Last edited by IndigoErth; 03-20-2021 at 03:53 PM.

03-20-2021, 03:51 PM	#9
IMJ Emperor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest, U.S.A. Posts: 8,806	As a kid I always liked those moments where Don's strikes were on display as being generally stronger than anyone else's. The TMNT NES game, the scene where he takes the gem out of it's placement in Krang's android body - stuff like that. I always thought it was sort of a neat highlight to his nerddom. But the stereotypical nerd thing has been placed on the character with greater ambition in the more recent incarnations for sure. __________________ Wave 1 Collectibles Online Market Watch Blog Collection Photography

03-20-2021, 10:48 AM	#3
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 16,288	Yeah, that's pretty ironic giving the smart guy a small head. Rather weird and not a fan of it going as far as it did with that Batman vs. TMNT film and Rise. I've assumed it's just more in line with trying to push the "skinny nerd" concept on him. A narrower head to go with a narrower body and probably trying to make Raph and, to a slightly lesser extent, Leo look tougher in comparison with wider jawlines. (And Mikey often kind of in between of course, or with similar width of the other two but rounder.) 2012 isn't so much this issue imo because if you compare the four Donnie's head isn't so much narrower as it simply is more rounded up top, with more brain space, vs the other three having flatter heads. PD Donnie is a leaner guy than his siblings, but proportionally his head to body size looks normal. Batman vs TMNT and Rise are the worst offenders though and it just looks weird and one of the things they need to stop doing. I like some variation in their looks, but it shouldn't be that extreme.

03-20-2021, 11:20 AM	#5
frank_one Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southern Europe Posts: 2,222	Because they don't know better than using body stereotypes to give characterization to the turtles.

03-20-2021, 03:16 PM	#7
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 6,418	they are intent on making him look nerdy which is a mistake IMO. Donatello already is the least popular turtle and they aren't helping the situation by giving him the worst looking design. I know Don has a ton of fans, but let's be real here. Leo, Raph and Mike all are more popular almost all of the time. Contemporary nerds don't easily fit into the stereotype of unattractive, weird looking dorks. They come in all shapes and sizes. I think they need to do a little better in how they portray Don. It's possible to do it in a way that's both nerdy AND cool, without making it offputting. 2012 Nick Don balanced it well part of the time, but the April romance subplot was laid on so thick that I think it still turned a lot of people off. Nobody wants to stan a horndog. I do support the idea of the four turtles having slightly different designs. But can we please do it in a way that doesn't make Don the worst turtle for once.

03-20-2021, 04:32 PM	#10
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	The head thing is also weird because in the 1990 movie he kinda had the widest head/face. It's strange to see it done pretty much the opposite.

03-21-2021, 01:36 AM	#13
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Regardless of any "stereotype"-related reasons, I just think it's a bad look. Like somebody "squished" his head. Just looks dumb.