I don't really see TMNT as a talking animal franchise, is that weird?

[CyberCubed]

Despite the main characters being 4 Turtles and a Rat, and then all the various mutants in each series even Leatherhead in Mirage or whatever, I never viewed TMNT as one or those "anthro talking animal" franchises. And I think I know why:

1. Mirage barely has any mutants outside the cast besides Leatherhead. There's a few like Bloodsucker who is basically Wyrm and some random one off characters but not many.

2. The Fred Wolf cartoon rarely introduced mutants constantly. Most eps were just Shredder/Krang's schemes or generic humans. And when we did get mutants they were designed to be creepy or action oriented.

3. The 2003 series mutants resembled bugs and monsters, like in Notes of the Underground or the Season 4 mutants.

4. Archie had a ton of mutants, but other than Ninjara none were designed to be cutesty or appealing. Maybe the Mutanimals to an extent.

5. Nick 2012 made most mutants to resemble monsters or horror movie homages. Even Rahzar was like a skeletal werewolf and the others were more creepy like the one off mutants.

6. The original movies had no mutants besides Rahzar/Tokka.


So this is kinda why IDW's Mutant town stands out oddly. I never saw TMNT as a franchise about talking animals or anthro furries because none of the series that had mutants ever portrayed them that way.

[Coola Yagami]

I think it's cause the turtles still live in a world of humans. It's not like Usagi where everyone is an animal or Sonic where I guess the only human is Robotnik.

[newfan]

I can't say I've thought about it, but as pointed out it's mixed, it's a human world. Also they are more anthropomorphic/mutant beings and not regular animals that really just talk so that we can udnerstand the show, like in a number of animated movies.

[IndigoErth]

Me either... Always just seen them as a different form of people living quietly among the human type people.

On the "anthro scale" they're relatively close to the human end, esp in stark contrast to some other mutants who retain a lot of the primitive bestial qualities. Who wouldn't always be a little mindful of those like Leatherhead...? That switch could flip for god knows what reason and he'd tear you up before shaking it off and remembering you aren't a foe. The Turtles have the human intellect not to have that issue with momentary breaks in it and wouldn't have to worry about being around them so long a you're a trusted friend. Now... if the TMNT were all mentally much more like Slash, that might be another matter. He's got more of the animal still in him and if that was the case for them, too, I might have been more inclined to see them as "talking animals." (edit: Basically what has happened in the cases of second mutations that made them beast-like...)

In comparison to, say, Bugs Bunny back in the day who, while physically around the same degree of anthro as the TMNT, is still mainly just concerned with doing rabbit things...like living in a rabbit burrow, stealing and eating carrots, and escaping a hunter. If the TMNT were comparable, I guess they'd spend most of their time living in a pond, eating regular turtle things, and be more concerned about the pollution people throw into it. But instead they're living in human-built structures, eating human food (sans first ep of 2012), and crashing in front of the tv and playing video games when not out kicking someone's ass. So... I vote the Turtles as green people of Turtle origin while the likes of Bugs Bunny as just a talking animal.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Me either... Always just seen them as a different form of people living quietly among the human type people.

On the "anthro scale" they're relatively close to the human end, esp in stark contrast to some other mutants who retain a lot of the primitive bestial qualities. Who wouldn't always be a little mindful of those like Leatherhead...? That switch could flip for god knows what reason and he'd tear you up before shaking it off and remembering you aren't a foe. The Turtles have the human intellect not to have that issue with momentary breaks in it and wouldn't have to worry about being around them so long a you're a trusted friend. Now... if the TMNT were all mentally much more like Slash, that might be another matter. He's got more of the animal still in him and if that was the case for them, too, I might have been more inclined to see them as "talking animals." (edit: Basically what has happened in the cases of second mutations that made them beast-like...)

In comparison to, say, Bugs Bunny back in the day who, while physically around the same degree of anthro as the TMNT, is still mainly just concerned with doing rabbit things...like living in a rabbit burrow, stealing and eating carrots, and escaping a hunter. If the TMNT were comparable, I guess they'd spend most of their time living in a pond, eating regular turtle things, and be more concerned about the pollution people throw into it. But instead they're living in human-built structures, eating human food (sans first ep of 2012), and crashing in front of the tv and playing video games when not out kicking someone's ass. So... I vote the Turtles as green people of Turtle origin while the likes of Bugs Bunny as just a talking animal.

Yeah, the Looney Tunes are weird cause we're kinda supposed to take for granted that the animals just talk. Elmer Fudd is never surprised Bugs can talk, for all intents and purposes he's literally a talking rabbit. With the Turtles it's clear normal non-talking animals exist and these characters and mutated anomalies in that world and not the norm.

[neatoman]

Well, because of the Daredevil/X-Men/Batman/Superman/etc homages, I kind of just think of TMNT as another American comic book franchise.


... Anyone want to list the clear comic book homages?

[Sumac]

Neither do I, until I've learnt about furries.

They spoiled my image of the franchise.

[CyberCubed]

Even then there's not that many female mutants.

Mona Lisa was only ever in 1 episode. Venus just appeared in the poorly received Next Mutation back in the day. Ninjara was a major part of the Archie comics and to be fair her design was sexualized, but it didn't seem too bad since it was a kids comic after all.

Besides that there were literally no other female mutants (not counting stuff like April transformed into a cat for a single episode), until basically to the modern era with IDW.

[Sumac]

I dunno, its not about lack of female mutants, but just, in general, TMNT registered for me as a fun series, which occasionally had some talking animals as enemies and allies. Of course, nowadays, I see FW obviously as a "cartoon humanoid animals do comedy action", but others not so much.

2k3 in particular very much not that kid of thing. 2k12 went back on it, but I haven't watched it until the end, so I don't know, if what it had become.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Even then there's not that many female mutants.

Mona Lisa was only ever in 1 episode. Venus just appeared in the poorly received Next Mutation back in the day. Ninjara was a major part of the Archie comics and to be fair her design was sexualized, but it didn't seem too bad since it was a kids comic after all.

Besides that there were literally no other female mutants (not counting stuff like April transformed into a cat for a single episode), until basically to the modern era with IDW.

April turned into a mutant turtle in one issue of the Archie comic, This predates Venus.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

April turned into a mutant turtle in one issue of the Archie comic, This predates Venus.

That's why I like comics over cartoons sometimes. In just this one panel alone we see April actually coming to terms to possibly being a mutant for the rest of her life and empathizing with her friends (I guess mostly Splinter since the Turtles are def better off as mutants) while she's been mutated into so many things in the 80's cartoon show but never really dwelled on it.

If it's one thing I like about human-mutants in the series is just the overall comparisons between the fact that the turtles were actual turtles instead of kids that got mutated or whatever. Like it's hard for them to empathize with say, a mutated April that would be horrified at being mutated because while they are mutants themselves, they can't really complain much because they wouldn't want to to go back to being regular turtles either. I can already tell the IDW series didn't even touch this fact whenever Jennika had to come to terms to being a mutant turtle.

If it's one thing I found interesting about IDW Mona Lisa, is the fact that she assumed Donnie was another human turned mutant. It goes to show just how human the turtles have become and aren't like Slash or Leatherhead.

I think another thing that that keeps the Turtles human is that they have a family to rely on and also are overall interested in overall human life and pop culture (some more than others). Other more animalistic mutants would have zero interest in going to a movie, playing videogames or catching a basketball game for example.

[Prowler]

Well I've never thought about it until I saw this thread.

I guess it's because they live in "our" world where talking animals are an exception to the rule unlike in Animal Crossing or the Looney Tunes and Disney universes.

Originally Posted by Sumac

Neither do I, until I've learnt about furries.

They spoiled my image of the franchise.

I'm by no means an expert on this subject matter, but I don't think the TMNT fandom has it that bad. I can point several issues within the TMNT fandom, but furries don't even cross my mind.

Now, if you mention Sonic the Hedgehog and Star Fox, oh man...

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Well I've never thought about it until I saw this thread.

I guess it's because they live in "our" world where talking animals are an exception to the rule unlike in Animal Crossing or the Looney Tunes and Disney universes.



I'm by no means an expert on this subject matter, but I don't think the TMNT fandom has it that bad. I can point several issues within the TMNT fandom, but furries don't even cross my mind.

Now, if you mention Sonic the Hedgehog and Star Fox, oh man...

More like scalies, I guess.

I don't know if fanfiction.net cracked down on that, but for a while there, there were tons of 'the Turtles meet a female OC obviously based on the female writer... and then they bang' kinda fanfics.

Like maybe if April was a mutant, but I'd say Thundercats with Cheetarah had most of the kids wishing they would bang a catwoman. Most of the female characters like April, Charlie, Eliza, Teela, She-Ra and so forth from the those cartoon shows were all humans or humanoid in the case of Teela and She-Ra. Like technically speaking, Teela and She-Ra are aliens, but you kinda don't think about that when you're having those thoughts about them.

[Leo656]

People act like Krystal don't got dat azz.

[Coola Yagami]

In a way I guess those fics were either depressing or therapeutic or whatever. I don't know, whenever I saw guys do those kinds of fics it would usually be the in-story character banging, or even if they were OCs, there would usually be a mini-adventure or whatever before they got to that.

While the female-written OCs ones were mostly 'the girl's a loser, which I'm sure means so is the writer' but the Turtle or whoever the character is will be like 'naw, you're awesome, and beautiful and perfect' and blah blah, and then they bang.

IDK, I'm sure the guys were losers too, but at least their OCs were always 'cool' and 'ladies men' from the start. The female ones would always spend a few paragraphs emphasizing how much of a loser she is and how she cries herself to sleep or whatever until suddenly Michealangelo tells her everything is gonna be alright.

But then again, dif people like dif things. Not gonna say 'all' but for the majority of them, the guy-written fics would mostly be about the lust, and the female written ones would be more romantic about it.

Gotta love how literally all fanfics involving a samurai or some sword-using character always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS has to use the term 'and then he unsheathed his sword'. It's pretty much a rule.

[Leo656]

It would probably surprise many people to know, I've never actually read a fanfic.

Snippets, sure, but never a whole one, that I recall. So I really can't speak to much. Most of what I did read definitely did little to disprove the negative things people say about fanfic in general. I don't even mean subject matter, I never even got too far into anything to judge any of that. I mean like... it's shocking some of those people can READ, let alone write. Lousy grammar and sentence structure and all that, which is partly why I never got very far to start with.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It would probably surprise many people to know, I've never actually read a fanfic.

Snippets, sure, but never a whole one, that I recall. So I really can't speak to much. Most of what I did read definitely did little to disprove the negative things people say about fanfic in general. I don't even mean subject matter, I never even got too far into anything to judge any of that. I mean like... it's shocking some of those people can READ, let alone write. Lousy grammar and sentence structure and all that, which is partly why I never got very far to start with.

I read a bunch when I discovered what that there internet is. While obviously I can differentiate cartoons from reality, I've always had it for April and whoever else, so I was curious to read some of these fanfics once I found out they were a thing.

Yeah, some of them were terrible. Or some of them were just.... horrific towards characters the writer hated.

Honestly, making Scrappy Doo the villain of that one Scooby Doo movie was something someone on fanfiction.net would have wrote cause they really hated the character.

[Prowler]

I had a phase when I was a teenager where I browsed fanfiction.net daily and read fanfics often. Mostly Zelda fics, among other properties. There weren't a lot of TMNT fanfics around at the time and 99% of them were of the 2k3 series which was current at the time and most fanfics are written by teenagers.

I wrote some fanfics as well when I was young. Tried to write two big ones as an adult, including a FW TMNT one but haven't updated it in years. I just forgot about it and lost motivation, I guess.

Everyone has written a story or two involving their favourite fictional characters. Fanfiction is basically fans writing plots they have imagined in their heads. Sure, most fics are lousy and even the better ones aren't going to win the Nobel Prize of Literature, but they're a good way to motivate younger generations to read and write, and you gotta start somewhere. The fanfics I wrote when I was 14-15 are embarrassing to read nowadays, but then again, I was 14-15. That's expected. Of course I have grown and evolved since then.

As for fanart, I don't understand furries but they have the right to draw their furry art.

Society should be less judgemental overrall. There's nothing wrong with writing fanfiction or drawing fanart or coming up with OCs in those fan works or taking part in Role Playing games online. It's just fans sharing their ideas and their passion for their favourite fictional characters and properties. Even if the stuff they come up with has low quality, we shouldn't discourage them. They're just having fun and there's no harm in that.

[Leo656]

I encourage people to do whatever they wanna do, creatively. I just missed the whole period where it was a "trend" and only really tagged along on the end of it. So I've never read a "good" one A-to-Z. I'd also rather write stuff than read stuff, generally.

I'm the first one to dismiss the idea that there's no good ones, I always stick up for the genre just in general. Just for whatever reason I've seen a lot of stuff that seems like the person writing it is like, eight.

[IndigoErth]

Bad fanfic is only good when it's so bad in the right ways that it's accidentally funny.

But YouTube videos of dramatic readings of bad fanfic are awesome.