Almost halfway through Mirage, VOl.1... my thoughts...

Lone Wolf · 12-09-2003, 10:33 AM

I just finished "Down by the River", issues 25-27. It was total crap. I don't like the "Ren and Stimpified" joke issues either by Mark Martin, but they were better than this pretentious, bloated overlong piece of nonsensical garbage. Yeah, Volume 1 has had some great high points; I, of course, loved Return to New York and issues 1-12.13 was one of the better filler issues. The little "side stories" with Justice Force and the Brass Cow, were decent, but I didn't really laugh much. Then more Mark Martin crap. 17 was fun but felt like a waste of time (and a very generic story. I've read Lone Wolf and cub; what a cute homage. It's still unoriginal and boring), but 18 I actually thought was a great filler issue. Funny, but great art and action, and the characters all remained true to themselves. Felt a lot like the new toon.

Return to New York was fantastic.

Down By the River was garbage, and a REAL downer after reading Return to New York.

Opinion so far: The first 27 issues certainly don't represent the "rich and bountiful" VOl.1 I had heard so much about. Why all the substitute creators? and couldn't they get anyone better than Mark Martin and Rick Levigne? Mark Martin I actually think is tolerable every 15 issues or so, but this is just too much. So far, TMNT has as many misses as hits. I hope it gets better; with 12 issues until City at War, I'm hoping things will pick up.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable of Vol.1 could enlighten me as too why certain creative decisions were made?

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 10:48 AM

Most people think River is one of the best arcs. Also most people hate Mark Martin's work. Issues 1-21 and 50-63 have definetly the best TMNT stories ever told. Well not that there would be any real competition outside Mirage and Volume 2 and 4 don't quite reach that level. But opinions differ, not everyone is going to like it.

As for the question why there are so many guest artists, I don't really know. A good guess would be the fact that when the cartoon became popular and toys strated selling, they made money without lifting a finger.

*Roseangelo* · 12-09-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

As for the question why there are so many guest artists, I don't really know. A good guess would be the fact that when the cartoon became popular and toys strated selling, they made money without lifting a finger.

No... Mirage Studios was Kevin and Peter's business, and with all the marketing going on it took a lot of time to run that business. They simply didn't have the time necessary to do the comic themselves. So they gave other independant artists a shot. Some missed, some were great.

Most of the stuff you're complaining about I enjoy. It's just personal preference.

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 12:07 PM

Well with the old cartoon and toys they just pretty much aproved all the new prdocuts and thats it. Of course there were other things that too their time, but I have always tough they just wanted to have a few years break.

Lone Wolf · 12-09-2003, 12:31 PM

Well, different strokes I guess... but Down by the River is REALLY considered one of the best arcs? Ugh...

<Long winded complaint>

Didn't Raph's joking around at the beginning of issue one seem totally out of character? I kept seeing Mikey in his place. Raph scared of a leech? Come on. Playing jokes on his brothers? Hey Rick, have you ever actually read TMNT?

Leonardo did not act like a leader at all. If anything he was a generic mouthpiece and Donatello was the fill in leader in this arc. What the hell?

And the whole "The Master focuses" stuff I thought was very weakly written. It definately sounded like an artist trying to pass off as a writer to me. For good depictions of transcendant plot devices, see issue 9. This came off as trite Hallmark Haiku rejections.

The whole Bloodsucker name seemed really, reall forced, as if they were trying to move action figures or something. " Look out, its BLOODSUCKER!" Bum Bum Bum... And why is he talking like a regular New York citizen? Did he absorb Raphs memories, perspective and vocabulary as well? Why doesn't he know Ninjitsu then?

That Bodder guy was just a joke. A totally 2 dimensional evil big business looney. " ITS ALL MINE MINE MINE!" Yawn.

And the book tries to get away with a "save the environment" hook at the end with the three kids (who suddenly look at the overflow of fallout that they managed to miss the past decade plus of their lives) and come to the brilliant conclusion that "adults must be pretty dumb to let things get like this"; how beautiful. Ninja Turtles III did a better job of making the environment a sympathetic character.This was cornier than Captain Planet. Also both the Indian and the River guy are both portrayed as flip sides of Bodder through the great lengths they are willing to go to protect the lake (The Indian betrays his new Turtle friends, then allows the one he called master to die, the river guy attempts to destroy a natural phenomenon like the turtles just to understand it, and has lied to the Indian just because he feared a loss of power) , like the evils of the environment taking precedence over life, (a whole balance thing) but again, this was never explored. As it was, everything happened so quickly I was left with a WTF feeling at the end of almost every page.

It was so over-the-top and fast paced, the new characters were cardboard cutouts, the Turtles were so grossly mischaracterized, and the message of the story was so forced and and contrived, I felt like Eastman and Laird ought to have considered seeing if Mark Martin wasn't too busy those months. It least he's consistent in his wackiness; this guy was all over the place. WTF is this River guy supposed to be? You show some magic dude in a few panels and I'm supposed to believe it?

Am I the ONLY one that thought this guy put (a weirded out) version of TMNT into a Captain Planet script?

</long winded complaint>

And so no one knows exactly why E and L published Martins crazy ass stories?

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 12:35 PM

Since E&L weren't doing TMNT stories themselfs, they gave other artists a chance to present their view's of the TMNT. Thats why they might seem out of character. Most guest artist issues are not considered being part of the "Canon".

Donatello · 12-09-2003, 12:38 PM

yeah, return to NY was the best of the series. i read em all. i disliked when they lost track too, but the made up with CAW,, wait for that, they're amazing,

oh and karpo, are you up to vol4 yet?

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 12:44 PM

Yeah, I finished volume 2 in March.

Donatello · 12-09-2003, 12:45 PM

how do ya like it? alot of people complain about the lack of action

i personally love it, a thoughtful mellow series makes sense for older turtles

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 12:49 PM

Natrually it doesn't quire reach the level of Vol. 1, but it's very good indeed. The well tought stories do make up for the lack of action.

Donatello · 12-09-2003, 12:54 PM

agreed, things should prove interesting with don's new storyarc(considering he's my favorite), but i don't wanna hijack this thread, we've done that in the past,

so, lone wolf, stick it out, they're no to bad before CAW, in fact i thought the shogun shoate issues were some of the better, non-continuity ones

kicknz · 12-09-2003, 03:58 PM

I will comment on the issues you've read so far, in clumps. The first 10 issues or so are probably my favorite stretch of any series ever. I hope you read the 'Raphael', 'Michaelangelo', 'Donatello' and 'Leonardo' micro-series one-shots back when you were reading those issues. For one thing, they belong to that same era and, secondly, they fit into the continuity of those issues.

#11-15 are pretty great, too, but definitely not as magical as the first 10 issues. The great art style is still there, but the stories just aren't as kick-ass.

#16,22,23 I like Mark Martin a lot, just not so much on a TMNT comic. I would have preferred for these issues (and many others) to have been published as separate mini-series or something.

#17 by Eric Talbot is great. I'm not sure why people get so caught up in the stories in a comic (no offense intended). Comics are all about the ART i.e. being called 'sequential art'. The story is just that icing that can make the experience that much better. And #17 has GREAT art. Why the hell didn't Eric Talbot and some of the other Mirage guys do more comic work? It really frustrates me.

#18 by Eastman/Talbot/Bode - The first Mirage TMNT comic I ever bought (the color re-release). Even though it's quite goofy and cartoonish, it's got those hardcore inks by Eastman and Talbot that give it that Mirage feel and some BADASS fights.

#19-21 DUH!

#24-26 "The River" - I agree, I'm not wild about these issues. This could have been a one-issue story and the art, except for his interpretation of the Turtles, is pretty generic.

#27 A strong filler issue with cool characters.

Have you been reading the "Tales of the TMNT" comics, too? They're all self-contained and some of them are follow-ups to regular series issues and some of them introduce characters later appear in the regular series (Nobody, Rat King, Leatherhead!).

The original 'Turtle Soup' one-shot and 'The Fugitoid' one-shot came out during this period, too.

I hope I didn't just type a bunch of crap you were already well aware of. If so, maybe I educated someone else with it.

Aztec General · 12-09-2003, 04:14 PM

I'll give my thoughts on the TMNT continuity. Why stop at Vol. 1? I'm going by the most recent continuity list by Dan Berger (I'm still eagerly waiting for Laird's long promised continuity timeline). I'll group them together by story as much as possible.

TMNT Vol. 1
#1-11 (Including the 5 one shots)- Top notch. We get introduced to the characters, discover their origins, and watch as their past comes back to haunt them on more than one occassion. Great issues.
#12-15, 17 Good but not terrific one shot issues.
#19-21 Return to New York baby! Probably the most action packed and well drawn comic storyline that I can think of.
#27-29 Two great action stories; along with my personal favorite "Sons of the Silent Age" for an emotional touch.
#45-47 Great stories featuring many returning characters.
#48-62 Here's where the entire TMNT comic series changes. From this point on all the stories are deep and complex. As much as I love most of #1-21, "Shades of Grey" and "City At War" are epic. City At War is my personal favorite comic storyline period: great characterizations, great story writing, and just plain great thinking outside of the box by PL and KE.

I'll post my reviews of the rest of the Mirage continuity later....

Lone Wolf · 12-09-2003, 04:59 PM

Keep it going guys I love reading other peoples thoughts on this stuff.

Well I definately am going to read it all, I mean I just spent over $200 on these comics! I guess I was just expecting more consistency in the quality,I mean a lot of these cost me a pretty penny. I just ordered Vol 2 and 4 from the Official Site, as well as Michaelangelo and Leonardo; they should arrive in time for Christmas. I think I also ordered whatever Tales of the TMNT that they had, but so far I haven't read any of those. I think I'm OK without the Raph and Don one shots (although I do want them eventually) because I have seen the cartoon version of each

.

I noticed that Tales of the TMNT is pretty damn expensive at milehighcomics.com. So whatever I didn't order at the official site I'll probably pick up in early 2004.

One thing I don't get: Are the seemingly alternate reality stories by Eastman and Laird part of continuity? I.E. are events of Shell of the Dragon and the Justice Force characters part of the Mirage Universe?

**Karpo_007** · 12-09-2003, 05:19 PM

Not sure about the Shell of the dragon, but Justice Force story is part of continuity.

Aztec General · 12-09-2003, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Not sure about the Shell of the dragon, but Justice Force story is part of continuity.

"Justice Force" #15 is but "Shell of the Dragon" #18 is not.

Now to continue my recap of Mirage Continuity:

Tales of the TMNT Vol. 1
#1-7 Various stories that introduce many important secondary characters or just tell cool tales (ex. #1). All are excellent, except #3 which is kind of weak.

Short Story Continuity from "Shell Shock" and "Grunts"
Utrom/Triceraton/Fugitoid story, Radical/C. Carnage story, Casey/Raph story, "The Lesson" Triceraton story (these are the ones that I consider to be definite continuity stories)- All are very good stories that add a some extra characterization to some secondary characters.

TMNT Vol. 2
#1-13- Continuing with the new style of complex storytelling established in #48 forward. Great storylines and we really get to see each main character's reaction to ongoing events. Things get a little too sci-fi and strange, but overall a decent volume.

TMNT Vol. 4
#1-12 ongoing- So far this has been a very different interpretation of the TMNT. The storyline is by far more sci-fi, but at the same time it focuses entirely around the characters. The story is very deep and intriguing. While it's true that the action's down; there has been plenty of shocking events that have occurred. Besides this whole serious has a sense of building, and there is tension in every which direction. Something's going to explode sooner or later.

Tales of the TMNT Vol. 2- Well, we'll just have to wait and see.
Vol. 1 #8 Revised- Coming soon

Well there it is folks a state of the Mirage TMNT address. As you can see I am a big fan of deep, complex storylines with lots of characterization. I'm glad that's the route that Mirage decided to take from Vol. 1 #48 on through Vol. 4.

*Cascadia* · 12-09-2003, 11:43 PM

the various issues in Volume 1 were different from each when you allow different writers and artists into fame. Yes, sometimes the main characters did not seem like themselves. 45-62 are very good. so are 1-13 and 27, 28. some of the issues were not my particular favorites.

Donatello · 12-10-2003, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

Vol. 1 #8 Revised- Coming soon

huh? what's this?

kicknz · 12-10-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donatello

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat King

Vol. 1 #8 Revised- Coming soon

huh? what's this?

Please refer to TMNT Vol. 4 letters pages. Laird has said that in the near future TMNT Vol. 1 #8 will be re-made. I think he said something about changing it to fit what upcoming continuity and fix a couple things he didn't like, and without Cerebus' involvement.

Lone Wolf · 12-10-2003, 05:18 PM

Well, I've read 27-30. They were all great. I especially liked 28-29. 29 was so cool with the Vampires and the the characterization of CAsey and that Vampire hunter dude I'm almost dissapointed its not part of continuity.

28 was great, but was it Native American year at Mirage or something? With the environment being a central theme in every issue since 24 I began to wonder when Captain Planet was going to make a guest appearance. Still have to love a story that elegantly portrays a large part of the essence of the Turtles.

Rick Veich (or whatever his last name is) redeemed himself somewhat with #30. The Turtles sounded like themselves, and the story was action packed and fast paced. Much better.

But why the hell did he have Casey give up on Raph so quickly in issue 26? WTF? Hey learn what Caseys about Rich. Sorry, that really ticked me off...

Well now that I got my hands on some of the cartoon episodes I missed, I wonder how they translated Return to New York.

Ah well, this Mirage stuff is going to have to stay this good now that I won't be getting my DreamWave fix

.

12-09-2003, 12:31 PM	#5
Lone Wolf Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 160	Well, different strokes I guess... but Down by the River is REALLY considered one of the best arcs? Ugh... <Long winded complaint> Didn't Raph's joking around at the beginning of issue one seem totally out of character? I kept seeing Mikey in his place. Raph scared of a leech? Come on. Playing jokes on his brothers? Hey Rick, have you ever actually read TMNT? Leonardo did not act like a leader at all. If anything he was a generic mouthpiece and Donatello was the fill in leader in this arc. What the hell? And the whole "The Master focuses" stuff I thought was very weakly written. It definately sounded like an artist trying to pass off as a writer to me. For good depictions of transcendant plot devices, see issue 9. This came off as trite Hallmark Haiku rejections. The whole Bloodsucker name seemed really, reall forced, as if they were trying to move action figures or something. " Look out, its BLOODSUCKER!" Bum Bum Bum... And why is he talking like a regular New York citizen? Did he absorb Raphs memories, perspective and vocabulary as well? Why doesn't he know Ninjitsu then? That Bodder guy was just a joke. A totally 2 dimensional evil big business looney. " ITS ALL MINE MINE MINE!" Yawn. And the book tries to get away with a "save the environment" hook at the end with the three kids (who suddenly look at the overflow of fallout that they managed to miss the past decade plus of their lives) and come to the brilliant conclusion that "adults must be pretty dumb to let things get like this"; how beautiful. Ninja Turtles III did a better job of making the environment a sympathetic character.This was cornier than Captain Planet. Also both the Indian and the River guy are both portrayed as flip sides of Bodder through the great lengths they are willing to go to protect the lake (The Indian betrays his new Turtle friends, then allows the one he called master to die, the river guy attempts to destroy a natural phenomenon like the turtles just to understand it, and has lied to the Indian just because he feared a loss of power) , like the evils of the environment taking precedence over life, (a whole balance thing) but again, this was never explored. As it was, everything happened so quickly I was left with a WTF feeling at the end of almost every page. It was so over-the-top and fast paced, the new characters were cardboard cutouts, the Turtles were so grossly mischaracterized, and the message of the story was so forced and and contrived, I felt like Eastman and Laird ought to have considered seeing if Mark Martin wasn't too busy those months. It least he's consistent in his wackiness; this guy was all over the place. WTF is this River guy supposed to be? You show some magic dude in a few panels and I'm supposed to believe it? Am I the ONLY one that thought this guy put (a weirded out) version of TMNT into a Captain Planet script? </long winded complaint> And so no one knows exactly why E and L published Martins crazy ass stories? __________________ "You may destroy me... but I will not live in fear!"

12-09-2003, 12:38 PM	#7
Donatello Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ny Posts: 565	Re: Almost halfway through Mirage, VOl.1... my thoughts... yeah, return to NY was the best of the series. i read em all. i disliked when they lost track too, but the made up with CAW,, wait for that, they're amazing, oh and karpo, are you up to vol4 yet? __________________ "There's no way to describe what I do. It's just me." -Andy Kaufman (my biggest inspiration, the TMNT being a close second)

12-09-2003, 12:45 PM	#9
Donatello Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ny Posts: 565	how do ya like it? alot of people complain about the lack of action i personally love it, a thoughtful mellow series makes sense for older turtles __________________ "There's no way to describe what I do. It's just me." -Andy Kaufman (my biggest inspiration, the TMNT being a close second)

12-09-2003, 04:14 PM	#13
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	I'll give my thoughts on the TMNT continuity. Why stop at Vol. 1? I'm going by the most recent continuity list by Dan Berger (I'm still eagerly waiting for Laird's long promised continuity timeline). I'll group them together by story as much as possible. TMNT Vol. 1 #1-11 (Including the 5 one shots)- Top notch. We get introduced to the characters, discover their origins, and watch as their past comes back to haunt them on more than one occassion. Great issues. #12-15, 17 Good but not terrific one shot issues. #19-21 Return to New York baby! Probably the most action packed and well drawn comic storyline that I can think of. #27-29 Two great action stories; along with my personal favorite "Sons of the Silent Age" for an emotional touch. #45-47 Great stories featuring many returning characters. #48-62 Here's where the entire TMNT comic series changes. From this point on all the stories are deep and complex. As much as I love most of #1-21, "Shades of Grey" and "City At War" are epic. City At War is my personal favorite comic storyline period: great characterizations, great story writing, and just plain great thinking outside of the box by PL and KE. I'll post my reviews of the rest of the Mirage continuity later.... __________________

12-09-2003, 04:59 PM	#14
Lone Wolf Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 160	Keep it going guys I love reading other peoples thoughts on this stuff. Well I definately am going to read it all, I mean I just spent over $200 on these comics! I guess I was just expecting more consistency in the quality,I mean a lot of these cost me a pretty penny. I just ordered Vol 2 and 4 from the Official Site, as well as Michaelangelo and Leonardo; they should arrive in time for Christmas. I think I also ordered whatever Tales of the TMNT that they had, but so far I haven't read any of those. I think I'm OK without the Raph and Don one shots (although I do want them eventually) because I have seen the cartoon version of each . I noticed that Tales of the TMNT is pretty damn expensive at milehighcomics.com. So whatever I didn't order at the official site I'll probably pick up in early 2004. One thing I don't get: Are the seemingly alternate reality stories by Eastman and Laird part of continuity? I.E. are events of Shell of the Dragon and the Justice Force characters part of the Mirage Universe? __________________ "You may destroy me... but I will not live in fear!"

12-09-2003, 10:33 AM	#1
Lone Wolf Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 160	Almost halfway through Mirage, VOl.1... my thoughts... I just finished "Down by the River", issues 25-27. It was total crap. I don't like the "Ren and Stimpified" joke issues either by Mark Martin, but they were better than this pretentious, bloated overlong piece of nonsensical garbage. Yeah, Volume 1 has had some great high points; I, of course, loved Return to New York and issues 1-12.13 was one of the better filler issues. The little "side stories" with Justice Force and the Brass Cow, were decent, but I didn't really laugh much. Then more Mark Martin crap. 17 was fun but felt like a waste of time (and a very generic story. I've read Lone Wolf and cub; what a cute homage. It's still unoriginal and boring), but 18 I actually thought was a great filler issue. Funny, but great art and action, and the characters all remained true to themselves. Felt a lot like the new toon. Return to New York was fantastic. Down By the River was garbage, and a REAL downer after reading Return to New York. Opinion so far: The first 27 issues certainly don't represent the "rich and bountiful" VOl.1 I had heard so much about. Why all the substitute creators? and couldn't they get anyone better than Mark Martin and Rick Levigne? Mark Martin I actually think is tolerable every 15 issues or so, but this is just too much. So far, TMNT has as many misses as hits. I hope it gets better; with 12 issues until City at War, I'm hoping things will pick up. Maybe someone more knowledgeable of Vol.1 could enlighten me as too why certain creative decisions were made? __________________ "You may destroy me... but I will not live in fear!"

12-09-2003, 10:48 AM	#2
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Most people think River is one of the best arcs. Also most people hate Mark Martin's work. Issues 1-21 and 50-63 have definetly the best TMNT stories ever told. Well not that there would be any real competition outside Mirage and Volume 2 and 4 don't quite reach that level. But opinions differ, not everyone is going to like it. As for the question why there are so many guest artists, I don't really know. A good guess would be the fact that when the cartoon became popular and toys strated selling, they made money without lifting a finger.

12-09-2003, 12:07 PM	#4
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Well with the old cartoon and toys they just pretty much aproved all the new prdocuts and thats it. Of course there were other things that too their time, but I have always tough they just wanted to have a few years break.

12-09-2003, 12:35 PM	#6
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Since E&L weren't doing TMNT stories themselfs, they gave other artists a chance to present their view's of the TMNT. Thats why they might seem out of character. Most guest artist issues are not considered being part of the "Canon".

12-09-2003, 12:44 PM	#8
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Yeah, I finished volume 2 in March.

12-09-2003, 12:49 PM	#10
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Natrually it doesn't quire reach the level of Vol. 1, but it's very good indeed. The well tought stories do make up for the lack of action.

12-09-2003, 12:54 PM	#11
Donatello Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ny Posts: 565	agreed, things should prove interesting with don's new storyarc(considering he's my favorite), but i don't wanna hijack this thread, we've done that in the past, so, lone wolf, stick it out, they're no to bad before CAW, in fact i thought the shogun shoate issues were some of the better, non-continuity ones __________________ "There's no way to describe what I do. It's just me." -Andy Kaufman (my biggest inspiration, the TMNT being a close second)

12-09-2003, 03:58 PM	#12
kicknz Thug Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 83	I will comment on the issues you've read so far, in clumps. The first 10 issues or so are probably my favorite stretch of any series ever. I hope you read the 'Raphael', 'Michaelangelo', 'Donatello' and 'Leonardo' micro-series one-shots back when you were reading those issues. For one thing, they belong to that same era and, secondly, they fit into the continuity of those issues. #11-15 are pretty great, too, but definitely not as magical as the first 10 issues. The great art style is still there, but the stories just aren't as kick-ass. #16,22,23 I like Mark Martin a lot, just not so much on a TMNT comic. I would have preferred for these issues (and many others) to have been published as separate mini-series or something. #17 by Eric Talbot is great. I'm not sure why people get so caught up in the stories in a comic (no offense intended). Comics are all about the ART i.e. being called 'sequential art'. The story is just that icing that can make the experience that much better. And #17 has GREAT art. Why the hell didn't Eric Talbot and some of the other Mirage guys do more comic work? It really frustrates me. #18 by Eastman/Talbot/Bode - The first Mirage TMNT comic I ever bought (the color re-release). Even though it's quite goofy and cartoonish, it's got those hardcore inks by Eastman and Talbot that give it that Mirage feel and some BADASS fights. #19-21 DUH! #24-26 "The River" - I agree, I'm not wild about these issues. This could have been a one-issue story and the art, except for his interpretation of the Turtles, is pretty generic. #27 A strong filler issue with cool characters. Have you been reading the "Tales of the TMNT" comics, too? They're all self-contained and some of them are follow-ups to regular series issues and some of them introduce characters later appear in the regular series (Nobody, Rat King, Leatherhead!). The original 'Turtle Soup' one-shot and 'The Fugitoid' one-shot came out during this period, too. I hope I didn't just type a bunch of crap you were already well aware of. If so, maybe I educated someone else with it.

12-09-2003, 05:19 PM	#15
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Not sure about the Shell of the dragon, but Justice Force story is part of continuity.

12-09-2003, 11:43 PM	#17
Cascadia Oregonian in heart & soul Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,731	the various issues in Volume 1 were different from each when you allow different writers and artists into fame. Yes, sometimes the main characters did not seem like themselves. 45-62 are very good. so are 1-13 and 27, 28. some of the issues were not my particular favorites. __________________ Formally known as Scientific freak

12-10-2003, 05:18 PM	#20
Lone Wolf Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 160	Well, I've read 27-30. They were all great. I especially liked 28-29. 29 was so cool with the Vampires and the the characterization of CAsey and that Vampire hunter dude I'm almost dissapointed its not part of continuity. 28 was great, but was it Native American year at Mirage or something? With the environment being a central theme in every issue since 24 I began to wonder when Captain Planet was going to make a guest appearance. Still have to love a story that elegantly portrays a large part of the essence of the Turtles. Rick Veich (or whatever his last name is) redeemed himself somewhat with #30. The Turtles sounded like themselves, and the story was action packed and fast paced. Much better. But why the hell did he have Casey give up on Raph so quickly in issue 26? WTF? Hey learn what Caseys about Rich. Sorry, that really ticked me off... Well now that I got my hands on some of the cartoon episodes I missed, I wonder how they translated Return to New York. Ah well, this Mirage stuff is going to have to stay this good now that I won't be getting my DreamWave fix . __________________ "You may destroy me... but I will not live in fear!"