Battle Nexus #4 preview and discussion

[hypered1]

Spoiler:

[ToTheNines]

I don’t really understand why he was fighting all those opponents, but Metalhead vs. 4kids Turtlebot was fun.

Kind of annoying that they keep drawing the mystery turtle so differently each issue. Obviously they don’t want to give it away, but this just feels like cheating.

Anyway, it looks like they’re finally doing some fun crossover stuff. Hopefully it’s not lame.

[neatoman]

"Gap-toothed teenage bookworm" is somewhat accurate I guess, I would have gone with "easily irritable, creepazoid stalker" but whatever...

Anyway, I haven't figured out who the grey council member is yet. However, paying attention I noticed by looking through the previous issues that he doesn't seem to be wearing gloves since none of the other do and yet his skin is still grey. The exact grey coloring also matches all the other Mirage characters in this mini so far, so I'm certain that whoever he is, he's a mirage character. Which one I can't quite figure out. Considering the other ones are associated with alternate dimensions, godhood and/or the Battle Nexus, my best guesses are:

• Kirby
• Coyote
• Gosei Hatsumi
• Galactose
• Dale McGillicutty (not sure if Paramount owns her though)
• Chiton

Still no idea who the remaining one might be but the grey one is almost certainly a mirage character. Still not sure who the hooded guy might be either, now it looks like he has a bit of a beak.

And this should be pretty obvious but looks like Savanti's staff is the Daimyo's war staff with the head of the time sceptre attached. The weird part is that I have yet to see any acknowledgement of this yet, just Renet calling it tacky.

[CyberCubed]

So did Nick Metalhead just kill Fred Wolf Muckman/Joe Eyeball in that last panel. I guess they didn't want to show Metalhead kill its fellow 2012 version.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So did Nick Metalhead just kill Fred Wolf Muckman/Joe Eyeball in that last panel. I guess they didn't want to show Metalhead kill its fellow 2012 version.

To be fair, Muckman is a character who should not be.

[TheLabRat]

I think this issue is more interesting than the previous three.

Spoiler:

Donnie won, and Savanti get pissed so he still send him and 2012 Metalhead to prison domain.

The other turtles they met: Archie Raph, 2003 Leo and Rise Donnie

I like this issue didn't repeat the same mistake as Turtles Forever. They didn't deliberately to make the other turtles(Rise Donnie) acted stupid. And Rise Donnie and IDW Donnie found that 2012 Metalhead is the key to help them to escape.

I agree with this "Mirage Shredder", Savanti should stop play the game, and just let this Shredder to kill the rest.

About short story: Archie Raph and FW Leo decide to play chess to determine the winner.

[nidza_maj2000]

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

I think this issue is more interesting than the previous three.

Spoiler:

Donnie won, and Savanti get pissed so he still send him and 2012 Metalhead to prison domain.

The other turtles they met: Archie Raph, 2003 Leo and Rise Donnie

I like this issue didn't repeat the same mistake as Turtles Forever. They didn't deliberately to make the other turtles(Rise Donnie) acted stupid. And Rise Donnie and IDW Donnie found that 2012 Metalhead is the key to help them to escape.

I agree with this "Mirage Shredder", Savanti should stop play the game, and just let this Shredder to kill the rest.

About short story: Archie Raph and FW Leo decide to play chess to determine the winner.

It is really interesting

Spoiler:

Mister Ogg has a cameo in a main story

[neatoman]

Anyone know of a turtle with a double chin? Because now we can actually see this guy's mouth and he looks like he has a double chin.

Anyway, I've looked into Annual 2014 again to see if there are any clues as to who the grey one might be. Unfortunately he just says that he never liked the pre-BN version of the games and "Live long and prosper", which I doubt is meant to indicate that he's Spock. I know that might seem like a foolish thing to attempt, it should be pretty obvious from the Big Mama reveal that most of these are retroactive, as it's seriously difficult to believe that she was actually always meant to be an IDW four years before her debut in Rise and the previous cartoon still going on at the time (though it does look like she doesn't have proper hands in the 2014 Annual and it almost looks like spider legs). But it does seem pretty obvious that the guy who turned out to be the Daimyo was intended to be the Daimyo as he's talking about becoming the guy in charge of the new tournament, so who knows? Maybe these guys were always intended to have specific identities?

[jestergoblin]

Absolutely bonkers to see a foot note referencing TMNT Vol 4 issue 29 and implying that Mirage Vol 4 Leo met 2k3 Leo in an untold tale.... which is an incredibly Mirage thing to do.

And the markings 2k3 Leo made on the stone match the first episode of The Big Brawl.

[Dancefloran]

I read Mirage Issue 1 for the first time, a pretty radical story !

(I discovered the Turtles with the 2003 cartoon and IDW was my first TMNT comics experience)

This Battle Nexus issue was enjoyable but seeing this story already ending makes me feel it was too short.

Spoiler:

We finally have more multiverse elements, the turles talking to their counterparts is nice, and it's very likely the hooded turtle is a Michelangelo.
Donatello had a really cool win here !
I can't wait to see how Savanti will cheat next time, I believe something cool will happen in issue 5.

Looks like Slash was teleported before his death by Romero the same way Mirage Shredder was.
Did Slash loose his memory by fighting other versions of himself ? Damn this guy can't get a break

Originally Posted by neatoman

"Gap-toothed teenage bookworm" is somewhat accurate I guess, I would have gone with "easily irritable, creepazoid stalker" but whatever...

Anyway, I haven't figured out who the grey council member is yet. However, paying attention I noticed by looking through the previous issues that he doesn't seem to be wearing gloves since none of the other do and yet his skin is still grey. The exact grey coloring also matches all the other Mirage characters in this mini so far, so I'm certain that whoever he is, he's a mirage character. Which one I can't quite figure out. Considering the other ones are associated with alternate dimensions, godhood and/or the Battle Nexus, my best guesses are:

• Kirby
• Coyote
• Gosei Hatsumi
• Galactose
• Dale McGillicutty (not sure if Paramount owns her though)
• Chiton

Still no idea who the remaining one might be but the grey one is almost certainly a mirage character. Still not sure who the hooded guy might be either, now it looks like he has a bit of a beak.

And this should be pretty obvious but looks like Savanti's staff is the Daimyo's war staff with the head of the time sceptre attached. The weird part is that I have yet to see any acknowledgement of this yet, just Renet calling it tacky.

I am putting my money on Kirby then

[ToTheNines]

Easily the best issue yet. This is more along the lines of what this should have been. The first three felt like a complete waste of time, and now it'll be over in 2 weeks.

It wasn't mindblowing, or even particularly well-written. But there was at least fun multiverse crossover stuff going on. My nitpicks:

- 4kids Leo dialogue was too dorky and weird. Had to roll my eyes pretty damn hard when he referred to Mirage Shredder as a... "Mirage". Jesus Christ.

- We now have confirmation that Savanti plucked Saki from right before he pulled the thermite grenade in #1. So it really doesn't make any sense why he would hate all turtles that intensely. They challenged him to a fight and he excepted. No other history at that point.

- Archie Raph talking down to IDW Raph like a boomer telling a young kid about life. Then IDW Raph erroneously says they're the same age. If Archie Raph just started dating Ninjara, he's only 15-16 and IDW Raph is more like 22 years old at this point.

- Everyone losing their memory in the prison dimension was annoying and took up valuable time to let them interact naturally. I also don't care for this suggestion that being near your dimensional doppelgänger drives you crazy. There is zero evidence of this in Turtles Forever, Trans Turtles, or Wanted: Bebop and Rocksteady.

- The word bubble on the last page makes it look like Slash is saying "I won't lose any more of my family", but it's clearly supposed to be Mikey.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

If Archie Raph just started dating Ninjara, he's only 15-16 and IDW Raph is more like 22 years old at this point.

I don't think IDW works like that. Raphael was 15-16 in IDW five years ago. And he's 15-16 today. And he'll be 15-16 5 years from now as well.

Mirage is the ONLY TMNT universe where time actually passes and people are aging.

[CyberCubed]

I get the feeling Rise Donatello is a favorite among the writing staff. Surprised no 2012 Turtle is here when we have 2012 Metalhead in the issue.

Archie Raph could also be talking about Ninjara from right before they break-up in the Moons Eyes issues, so the very end of the Archie run before they broke up.

The back-up of Archie TMNT vs Fred Wolf TMNT feels surreal since as a kid it felt like Archie TMNT was always just a splintered off universe of the original cartoon right at the start of Season 2 during the Sarnath story due to Armaggon traveling back in time to swipe Shredder.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I don't think IDW works like that. Raphael was 15-16 in IDW five years ago. And he's 15-16 today. And he'll be 15-16 5 years from now as well.

Mirage is the ONLY TMNT universe where time actually passes and people are aging.

Right, they've certainly never had any dialogue stating anyone's ages. I'm just a timeline freak and keep track of each winter/Christmas that has passed since #1.

If anything, they've regressed lately. The Sophie run started with them losing Splinter and learning to live without him and ended with them all going their separate ways. The current volume has them acting like that was some major betrayal and the 4 of them NEED to live together. And of course,

Spoiler:

they're also resurrecting Daddy.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Archie Raph could also be talking about Ninjara from right before they break-up in the Moons Eyes issues, so the very end of the Archie run before they broke up.

He specifically says they just started dating.

it felt like Archie TMNT was always just a splintered off universe of the original cartoon right at the start of Season 2 during the Sarnath story due to Armaggon traveling back in time to swipe Shredder.

They're actually completely different universes that have variations pre-dating the Armaggon thing.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Right, they've certainly never had any dialogue stating anyone's ages. I'm just a timeline freak and keep track of each winter/Christmas that has passed since #1.

If anything, they've regressed lately. The Sophie run started with them losing Splinter and learning to live without him and ended with them all going their separate ways. The current volume has them acting like that was some major betrayal and the 4 of them NEED to live together. And of course,

Spoiler:

they're also resurrecting Daddy.

And at least they've technically spent 0 years sorting out how they're being a ninja clan that doesn't kill anybody, ever.

[neatoman]

So to what extent do you guys think the Council members were pre-planned? In the 2014 annual they were essentially background characters and I can't recall them showing up at until this mini, so it's like there is a ton of material to go by.

Still, it does seem like the Daimyo was always intended to be one of them. He literally states he'll arrange the Battle Nexus going forward and his mask looked a bit like a stylised version of his original mask. Big Mama seems like the least likely one, because she just wasn't a character in 2014 and it seems doubtful the Rise writers ever had the annual in mind when they created her, could have been an idea between 2018 and now though.

Ogg seems like the biggest toss-up though. On one hand, he fits the bill of being a character from another dimension who likes to screw with people, on the other hand... I know he and only appearance until SMA were hated and unlikely to return before SMA was a thing. So it's kind of hard to tell if anyone had any interest in bringing him back.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

They're actually completely different universes that have variations pre-dating the Armaggon thing.

Yeah... It's best to pretend the overlap with the FW cartoon is just a coincidence from an in-universe standpoint, rather than some cosmic split. Otherwise you'd have to explain differences like why Hamato Yoshi fled to America for being framed for an actual murder, rather than kinda sorta looking guilty when he was obviously framed for an attempted murder.

[Dancefloran]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

- We now have confirmation that Savanti plucked Saki from right before he pulled the thermite grenade in #1. So it really doesn't make any sense why he would hate all turtles that intensely. They challenged him to a fight and he excepted. No other history at that point.

I mean, this Saki is the OG hater lol, and he also lost to the turtles who humbled him

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

They're actually completely different universes that have variations pre-dating the Armaggon thing.

Do you mean the Hamato Yoshi stuff Murphy added in later on like training in Tibet and stuff? I suppose so, but their whole origin otherwise is the same due to the Archie series adapting the first 5 episodes of the original cartoon. You just have to overlook the fact that the Turtles stayed as Turtle tots in Archie and didn't grow to their present forms right away like in the original cartoon.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Do you mean the Hamato Yoshi stuff Murphy added in later on like training in Tibet and stuff? I suppose so, but their whole origin otherwise is the same due to the Archie series adapting the first 5 episodes of the original cartoon. You just have to overlook the fact that the Turtles stayed as Turtle tots in Archie and didn't grow to their present forms right away like in the original cartoon.

The fact that the FW turtles were never Turtle Tots is a pretty important distinction though.
And... Well, let's just list off the rest of the irreconcilable differences shall we?

• Leatherhead was a man transformed into an alligator by magic, not a mutated alligator.
• Slash was an alien, not a mutated turtle.
• Mondo was a human mutated way later, not a gecko mutated at the same time as the turtles in the same accident.
• Tattoo was human, not a hamster (I mean, what the hell?).

There are probably more problems than just character origins but it's pretty hard to claim the same world, only altered by time travel, would produce identical beings of different origins.