Yet another Shredder thread.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-10-2004, 04:22 PM

I've noticed how over the years Shredder's background has changed radically.

In the Mirage comics, Hamato Yoshi killed Oruko Nagi trying to protect Tang Shen. Oruko Saki vowed revenge for the death of Nagi, his older brother. The Foot Clan took Saki under their wing and trained him in the art of ninjitsu. Saki's training was, as Splinter would say, tainted by the posion of hatred, hatred for Hamato Yoshi. After rising to the ranks of the leader, Saki became a samurai known as The Shredder. He then forefilled his vow by murdering both Yoshi and Shen. The Shredder in the films/NM is loosly based on this version of Shredder.

In the original animated series, Shredder isn't the samurai bent on a personal vendeta he is in the comics. In the old toon, Oruko Saki was but a student of Hamato Yoshi, the leader of the Foot Clan. Desiring his teacher's position, Saki set Yoshi up, resulting him in being banished from the Foot Clan. Oruko Saki became not only the new leader of the Foot Clan, but an evil samurai called The Shredder, pretty much bent on taking over the world.

From what I understand in the new series of Ninja Turtles, Shredder is not human, but a Utrom samurai (Note to self, suffer from amnesia).

*jeff the cheff* · 02-10-2004, 04:29 PM

I like the old cartoons origin the best, but they were all good in their own way.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-10-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffthecheff

I like the old cartoons origin the best, but they were all good in their own way.

I kinda prefere the origin in the Mirage comics, it was very deep. Though I do like how Yoshi AKA Splinter was The Shredder's mentor. The fight in the fifth episode reminds me of the deul between Obi Wan Kenobi & Darth Vader in Star Wars.

**Karpo_007** · 02-10-2004, 04:51 PM

Original of course. The old cartoon's origin lost every bit of drama. Of course, thats understandable considering the target audience.

jestergoblin · 02-10-2004, 04:59 PM

JW, did you just learn who Shredder is?

The Mirage comic Shredder has the best story but the old toon has its merits as well once Splinter and Hamato Yoshi enter into it. I mean, a rat learning ninja skills and being able to teach four different weapons to a master level? Hmm...

*J Legault* · 02-10-2004, 05:01 PM

I like the new one's background. The storyline for the New Shredder is very long and interesting.

Savanti Romero · 02-10-2004, 05:12 PM

The new shredder was great untill he became an Utrom.

The mirage original is best.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-10-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savanti Romero

The new shredder was great untill he became an Utrom.

The mirage original is best.

I haven't seen Utrom Shredder yet, but it sounds like a bad idea. Mainly because that contradicts everything about Shredder so far.

Like in Return to New York Part 2, we find out out Shredder cloned himself thrice-- How can you clone an android body?

Shredder vanished when he walked into the shadows in The Shredder Strikes Part 1, suggesting him a spirit or myistic ninja of some sort.

In the very first episode, we see the Shredder sipping tea, how can an android body drink?

It's just incredibly sloppy.

**Kali** · 02-10-2004, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrah White

Like in Return to New York Part 2, we find out out Shredder cloned himself thrice-- How can you clone an android body?

As we've said several times, it was Don who guessed they were clones. We don't know for a fact what kind of genetic experimenting they were doing.

Quote:

Shredder vanished when he walked into the shadows in The Shredder Strikes Part 1, suggesting him a spirit or myistic ninja of some sort.

Splinter's done the same thing, in his T-file profile, and appears out of the shadows to startle Raph in The Shredder Strikes Part 2. It was Saki's dojo, it's very possible he had a secret door there.

Quote:

In the very first episode, we see the Shredder sipping tea, how can an android body drink?

Data on Star Trek can. It's possible to construct an artificial system to store the tea, if it was even tea at all. Or even a type of "digestive" system that can actually get some use out of it.

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that there are other explanations for these things.

*ZariusTwo* · 02-10-2004, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrah White

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savanti Romero

The new shredder was great untill he became an Utrom.

The mirage original is best.

I haven't seen Utrom Shredder yet, but it sounds like a bad idea. Mainly because that contradicts everything about Shredder so far.

Like in Return to New York Part 2, we find out out Shredder cloned himself thrice-- How can you clone an android body?

Shredder vanished when he walked into the shadows in The Shredder Strikes Part 1, suggesting him a spirit or myistic ninja of some sort.

In the very first episode, we see the Shredder sipping tea, how can an android body drink?

It's just incredibly sloppy.

Jesus H. Christ...

The Utroms designed sophisticated bodies for thier disguises, obviously this also accomadates for eating/drinking etc.

It was a great idea, and the cartoon does not suffer from it, nor does the credibility of the New Cartoon Shredder

*Taloniss* · 02-10-2004, 06:04 PM

Original had good drama and emotion behind it, so it wins, hands down.

MW8979 · 02-10-2004, 06:35 PM

Old show has the best origins for both Shredder and Splinter. Very logical and not too elaborate.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 02-10-2004, 07:21 PM

I don't know how logical the mutigen magically knowing what animal one touched last is. But, I like all three origin storys, Mirage being my absolute favourite.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-10-2004, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali

Quote:

In the very first episode, we see the Shredder sipping tea, how can an android body drink?

Data on Star Trek can. It's possible to construct an artificial system to store the tea, if it was even tea at all. Or even a type of "digestive" system that can actually get some use out of it.

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that there are other explanations for these things.

Not to start a fight, but just for the record Utroms feed outside their bodies (See Mirage Volume 1 #4). Interesting explaination though.

*Taloniss* · 02-11-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrah White

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali

Quote:

In the very first episode, we see the Shredder sipping tea, how can an android body drink?

Data on Star Trek can. It's possible to construct an artificial system to store the tea, if it was even tea at all. Or even a type of "digestive" system that can actually get some use out of it.

Not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that there are other explanations for these things.

Not to start a fight, but just for the record Utroms feed outside their bodies (See Mirage Volume 1 #4). Interesting explaination though.

So? The Utrom may eat in private, and he designed the body to store food/drink so he could appear normal to others and take part in things like Tea Ceremony's.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-11-2004, 07:42 PM

Nonetheless it sounds like a bad idea, I personaly would have prefered Shredder to be a mystic ninja or Tengu or even a spirit. That exactly what my mum guessed when she saw Shredder retrieve his head, a spirit.

*jeff the cheff* · 02-11-2004, 07:56 PM

How could a spirit drink tea? And who says it was tea....maybe it was oil for his robotic body or something.

**Kali** · 02-12-2004, 08:28 AM

Personally, when I first heard that Shredder was something other than human, I hoped he was a Tengu or demon, as well, simply because I love the mythology so much. But he's an Utrom, and now that I'm seeing the whole picture, I do like the idea. It's made for a very good story.

~~Jarrah White~~ · 02-12-2004, 11:49 PM

Well I just have to wait to see the episode, for now though I dislike the idea.

*J Legault* · 02-13-2004, 08:31 AM

It's like the mutated creatures from notes from underground, most people thought they were going to be mutated animals but it turn out to be something else and everything turn out well.

Same with the Utrom as Shredder. We all thought it was going to fail but it actully worked well if you seen the episode.

Just because it looks like it will be unsuccessful doesn't mean it won't be successful.

View Poll Results: Origins of the Shredder, which on his the best?
Mirage/films/NM	16	61.54%
Old Toon	7	26.92%
New toon	3	11.54%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

02-10-2004, 04:22 PM	#1
~~Jarrah White~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,394	Yet another Shredder thread. I've noticed how over the years Shredder's background has changed radically. In the Mirage comics, Hamato Yoshi killed Oruko Nagi trying to protect Tang Shen. Oruko Saki vowed revenge for the death of Nagi, his older brother. The Foot Clan took Saki under their wing and trained him in the art of ninjitsu. Saki's training was, as Splinter would say, tainted by the posion of hatred, hatred for Hamato Yoshi. After rising to the ranks of the leader, Saki became a samurai known as The Shredder. He then forefilled his vow by murdering both Yoshi and Shen. The Shredder in the films/NM is loosly based on this version of Shredder. In the original animated series, Shredder isn't the samurai bent on a personal vendeta he is in the comics. In the old toon, Oruko Saki was but a student of Hamato Yoshi, the leader of the Foot Clan. Desiring his teacher's position, Saki set Yoshi up, resulting him in being banished from the Foot Clan. Oruko Saki became not only the new leader of the Foot Clan, but an evil samurai called The Shredder, pretty much bent on taking over the world. From what I understand in the new series of Ninja Turtles, Shredder is not human, but a Utrom samurai (Note to self, suffer from amnesia).

02-10-2004, 05:01 PM	#6
J Legault Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 2,054	I like the new one's background. The storyline for the New Shredder is very long and interesting. __________________ I am a fan of TMNT and I'm still one today. I got into the habbit back in 1992 or 93' when I was little. I would like to thank my 2 year older cousin for getting me in the habbit. 2001 was when I revised my knowledge on TMNT. And today I'm a bigger fan than I was years ago. I have all 3 TMNT Movies, current Toon, and old school Toon on DVD.

02-10-2004, 05:12 PM	#7
Savanti Romero Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 600	The new shredder was great untill he became an Utrom. The mirage original is best. __________________ "The sceptor has returned at last; and it's all mine!" -Savanti Romero, Vol. 1 issue 47 1992 AKA: [email protected] utromheadquarters.0catch.com

02-10-2004, 07:21 PM	#13
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I don't know how logical the mutigen magically knowing what animal one touched last is. But, I like all three origin storys, Mirage being my absolute favourite. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

02-10-2004, 04:29 PM	#2
jeff the cheff Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 122 and an eighth Posts: 2,129	I like the old cartoons origin the best, but they were all good in their own way.

02-10-2004, 04:51 PM	#4
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Original of course. The old cartoon's origin lost every bit of drama. Of course, thats understandable considering the target audience.

02-10-2004, 04:59 PM	#5
jestergoblin Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,461	JW, did you just learn who Shredder is? The Mirage comic Shredder has the best story but the old toon has its merits as well once Splinter and Hamato Yoshi enter into it. I mean, a rat learning ninja skills and being able to teach four different weapons to a master level? Hmm...

02-10-2004, 06:04 PM	#11
Taloniss Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,819	Original had good drama and emotion behind it, so it wins, hands down.

02-10-2004, 06:35 PM	#12
MW8979 Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 431	Old show has the best origins for both Shredder and Splinter. Very logical and not too elaborate.

02-11-2004, 07:42 PM	#16
~~Jarrah White~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,394	Nonetheless it sounds like a bad idea, I personaly would have prefered Shredder to be a mystic ninja or Tengu or even a spirit. That exactly what my mum guessed when she saw Shredder retrieve his head, a spirit.

02-11-2004, 07:56 PM	#17
jeff the cheff Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 122 and an eighth Posts: 2,129	How could a spirit drink tea? And who says it was tea....maybe it was oil for his robotic body or something.

02-12-2004, 08:28 AM	#18
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Personally, when I first heard that Shredder was something other than human, I hoped he was a Tengu or demon, as well, simply because I love the mythology so much. But he's an Utrom, and now that I'm seeing the whole picture, I do like the idea. It's made for a very good story.

02-12-2004, 11:49 PM	#19
~~Jarrah White~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,394	Well I just have to wait to see the episode, for now though I dislike the idea.

02-13-2004, 08:31 AM	#20
J Legault Mad Scientist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 2,054	It's like the mutated creatures from notes from underground, most people thought they were going to be mutated animals but it turn out to be something else and everything turn out well. Same with the Utrom as Shredder. We all thought it was going to fail but it actully worked well if you seen the episode. Just because it looks like it will be unsuccessful doesn't mean it won't be successful. __________________ I am a fan of TMNT and I'm still one today. I got into the habbit back in 1992 or 93' when I was little. I would like to thank my 2 year older cousin for getting me in the habbit. 2001 was when I revised my knowledge on TMNT. And today I'm a bigger fan than I was years ago. I have all 3 TMNT Movies, current Toon, and old school Toon on DVD.