Star Trek: Picard

[Andrew NDB]

More like of the same mind as the people on STD with pushing the envelope with the F bomb. And how weird that I would ever complain about F bombs in anything... it's just... I see what they're trying to compensate for. It just wasn't needed.

Eh. Saw episode 2. It was fine. Just another cog to get through. It wasn't bad, I was reasonably entertained. Was initially confused by those phasers on Mars but chalked it up to them probably not being phasers at all but some kind of mining... something.

Mostly on a minor level I lamented the exchange with Picard with random female admiral #10384. You're telling me there isn't 1 established admiral or captain who would be an admiral by now (from TNG or DS9 or VOY) who could have filled that role to give that part 9000% more weight? I can name like 20. Even ones where it'd be OK if they are crooked now. I'm not saying it needed to be Janeway or Jellico or Nichaev, but c'mon. There is a rather large pool.

[Jester]

Someone mentioned the F-bombs keep them from watching with their kids...and it reminded me my first introduction to Trek was either watching TNG or the movies with my Trekkie mother. She has asked me about Picard. This episode may be the breaking point for her...not a fan of unnecessary profanity.

[ZariusTwo]

Someone mentioned the F-bombs keep them from watching with their kids...and it reminded me my first introduction to Trek was either watching TNG or the movies with my Trekkie mother. She has asked me about Picard. This episode may be the breaking point for her...not a fan of unnecessary profanity.


Vrm8TV7K4zo

[newfan]

Just watching ep 2, depressing times.. Picards health and the mess with Starfleet
Trying to figure out what is the deal with the borg cube, though that might become more clear as I watch this ep. It's good seeing Picard again and at the moment the story feels like it might have promise as it unfolds.

Agreed with the swearing, there are times it fits well and times where it wasn't really needed but just there, like it was here.

[IMJ]

Mostly on a minor level I lamented the exchange with Picard with random female admiral #10384. You're telling me there isn't 1 established admiral or captain who would be an admiral by now (from TNG or DS9 or VOY) who could have filled that role to give that part 9000% more weight? I can name like 20. Even ones where it'd be OK if they are crooked now. I'm not saying it needed to be Janeway or Jellico or Nichaev, but c'mon. There is a rather large pool.

That admiral was actually an old Enterprise crew member from Star Trek TNG!

[IMJ]

Just watching ep 2, depressing times.. Picards health and the mess with Starfleet

It's very strange that they'd give him some new ailment or affliction rather than any continuity to the "eromatic syndrome" (or whatever Crusher called it) as was established canon in TNG.

[Andrew NDB]

It's very strange that they'd give him some new ailment or affliction rather than any continuity to the "eromatic syndrome" (or whatever Crusher called it) as was established canon in TNG.

I don't think we know that it's not Irumodic Syndrome, but I hope not (I don't like humoring that FAKE future). They didn't even name it, did they? It seemed like the doctor just called it a "syndrome" and didn't get into any detail.

Just something for Q to cure.

[CyberCubed]

Kind of strange the first season is only 10 episodes, is that the norm for streaming it shows? I mean I don’t expect a 22 episode season or something but feels short.

[newfan]

Kind of strange the first season is only 10 episodes, is that the norm for streaming it shows? I mean I don’t expect a 22 episode season or something but feels short.

Yeah, 10 seems to be the average though you could get more or less but not by many eps, so when you get them all together the binge of over pretty quickly

[Andrew NDB]

A bit upsetting that with it only having 10 episodes, the show reportedly STILL had to surrender some of its budget over to Discovery season 3 because they went in the red.

[newfan]

A bit upsetting that with it only having 10 episodes, the show reportedly STILL had to surrender some of its budget over to Discovery season 3 because they went in the red.

Oh really? That's a shame. I haven't even checked that show out yet.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/fpx4WLY/83190279-1044339169277400-2008592196718034944-n.jpg

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Watched both episodes last night. Picard is great, as is his Romulan vineyard caretakers Laris and Zhaban. Dahj was great, but too bad she won't be around.

The Starfleet conspiracy irritated me, actually. I think I am ready to be done with the trope of "All Starfleet admirals are corrupt or incompetent!!!" And we don't need another Romulan secret group... Tal Shiar would've sufficed, I think.

Overall, I'm hooked and hope it goes well. But it's a bit more of a slow burn than I was expecting.

[Andrew NDB]

The Tal Shiar of the Tal Shiar. So stupid. Like, really? The Tal Shiar itself alone just wasn't secret black ops enough for Kurtzman? He just had to go and create one more level?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The Tal Shiar of the Tal Shiar. So stupid. Like, really? The Tal Shiar itself alone just wasn't secret black ops enough for Kurtzman? He just had to go and create one more level?

Make it compartmentalized, like Cerberus--not every organization within the Tal Shiar knows about the other organizations, and they focus on different things.

You know what, I'm making that my headcanon. Boom. It'll be easier to watch now.

Also, the f-bomb from the Starfleet admiral was dumb. Whereas I loved Tilly and Stamets talking about how "fvcking cool" the (actually quite stupid) science was in Disco season 1.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Also, am I the only one annoyed by Agnes (the blonde Daystrom scientist)?

Because holy hell, I did not like her. She reminded me of Leslie Knope or the main character from The Good Place.

[Andrew NDB]

Also, am I the only one annoyed by Agnes (the blonde Daystrom scientist)?

Because holy hell, I did not like her. She reminded me of Leslie Knope or the main character from The Good Place.

That's transphobic of you (if the rumors are true).

[CyberCubed]

Starfleet was always corrupt. Let the past die, kill it, if you have to.

I fully expect Picard to say at some point, “It’s time for Starfleet to end.”

[Jester]

Vrm8TV7K4zo
To be fair this is probably more apt for my experience...
Op8sBoe4z58

One question: Geordi is the head of the Utopia Planitia shipyard...does he have any say in using slave labor that is made up of knockoffs of his best friend?

[IMJ]

To be fair this is probably more apt for my experience...
Op8sBoe4z58

And to be even more fair, at least those instances sort of served the story and added some humor - Data still reeling from his emotion chip lets out a base reaction and we laugh. Spock and Kirk, both out of place and out of time trying to fit into a culture but coming off not quite correctly and we laugh.

In Picard, authoritative female admiral drops and F-Bomb and it just screams of signs of the times and nonsense as opposed to adding anything of substance at all.

One question: Geordi is the head of the Utopia Planitia shipyard...does he have any say in using slave labor that is made up of knockoffs of his best friend?

-OOF- Right? Yeesh....

The 2nd ep was very weak and wrecked of Hollywood Woke Contamination that has ubiquitously caused other T.V. and films to fail miserably.

[Andrew NDB]

In Picard, authoritative female admiral drops and F-Bomb and it just screams of signs of the times and nonsense as opposed to adding anything of substance at all.

True.

The 2nd ep was very weak and wrecked of Hollywood Woke Contamination that has ubiquitously caused other T.V. and films to fail miserably.

I wouldn't say it was quite THAT bad, but definitely an observable dusting.

[TigerClaw]

That whole dropping the F bomb thing. That's just because its on a streaming service. They aren't bound by ratings. So they can get away with a few F bombs. Star Trek Discovery did it. and the show wasn't even family friendly either.

[Andrew NDB]

That whole dropping the F bomb thing. That's just because its on a streaming service. They aren't bound by ratings. So they can get away with a few F bombs. Star Trek Discovery did it. and the show wasn't even family friendly either.

But it's not like... if TNG had been on HBO and not Fox, there'd be F bombs. There wouldn't have been.

[Jester]

How many member planets are in the Federation? It just dawned on me that the Federation left the Romulans to die after the Rogue Synth attack because 15 member planets said they would leave the Federation but if what I'm finding on Memory Alpha is accurate that's only 10% of the Federation's 154 member planets.

[IMJ]

How many member planets are in the Federation? It just dawned on me that the Federation left the Romulans to die after the Rogue Synth attack because 15 member planets said they would leave the Federation but if what I'm finding on Memory Alpha is accurate that's only 10% of the Federation's 154 member planets.

They could have just as easily said that the attack on the shipyard crippled the centralized rescue fleet enough that the rescue effort was widely unsuccessful. But that wouldn't have played to their commentary trying to liken modern nationalism to evil isolationism.

Doing so gives Picard a "savior" arc for the Federation outside of just solving the Romulan plot and resurrecting Data.

I'm just mostly curious as to the reasons they will write in for the Romulans wanting to sabotage their own rescue effort.

[Jester]

Didn't they already say that factions in the Romulan hierarchy saw it as a Federation ploy to weaken the Romulan Star Empire....also....they "hate" synths...or something...

I'm now more unsure than I was when I started this post.

In rewatching the episode the admiral said that 1000s of species depend on the Federation for stability...and you're worried about 14 leaving?

[IMJ]

Didn't they already say that factions in the Romulan hierarchy saw it as a Federation ploy to weaken the Romulan Star Empire....also....they "hate" synths...or something...

Yeeahhhh they did say that, but I can't help but feel the whole fundamentalist thing is a red herring. Fundamentalism is something you do in a single episode with resolution - not really something that a good storyteller would do with an unfolding reveal across a season, you know?

On that note, is anyone else here old enough to actually remember when T.V. seasons were significant and long time sources of entertainment with lots of weekly episodes? Now everything is more like a made for T.V. movie like "The Stand" and "The Langoliers" was back in the day.

Sure the quality is more cinematic nowadays, but hell they pulled off a show like TNG back in the day, and they never missed a beat. Now you get 8 episodes of something and you have to wait a friggin' year for the next "season". That's a movie.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That's transphobic of you (if the rumors are true).

I know there's going to be a transgender main character. Is that who it turns out to be?

Didn't they already say that factions in the Romulan hierarchy saw it as a Federation ploy to weaken the Romulan Star Empire....also....they "hate" synths...or something...

I'm now more unsure than I was when I started this post.

In rewatching the episode the admiral said that 1000s of species depend on the Federation for stability...and you're worried about 14 leaving?

Anti-synth Romulans feels like a very weird choice. I think this season could end up a lot like Discovery season 1... trying to do too many big things at once, Mirror Universe AND Klingon War. Pick a lane and do it well. Synths and Romulans feels like too much at the moment...

How many member planets are in the Federation? It just dawned on me that the Federation left the Romulans to die after the Rogue Synth attack because 15 member planets said they would leave the Federation but if what I'm finding on Memory Alpha is accurate that's only 10% of the Federation's 154 member planets.


Depends on who those 15 planets ARE. Not all members of the Federation are created equal. What if it were Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, Trill, and Betazed? That carries a lot more weight.

And I could see the writers pitching Vulcan as anti-Romulan, for whatever case.

[Jester]

Depends on who those 15 planets ARE. Not all members of the Federation are created equal. What if it were Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, Trill, and Betazed? That carries a lot more weight.

And I could see the writers pitching Vulcan as anti-Romulan, for whatever case.

That thought ctossed my mind. I'm not 100 sure about Vulcan. Didn't Spock use a Vulcan ship to try and save Romulus before being sent back to the past sparking the Kelvin timeline? But then again Discovery's Vulcans were a bit more...douchy.

[IMJ]

I know there's going to be a transgender main character. Is that who it turns out to be?

I think it's either going to be the Romulan "sister" who is revealed to not only have been genetically disguised as a human, but also revealed to have once been the brother of the Romulan agent guy from the Borg Cube.

OR, it's that person who was talking to the surviving Data-Twin chick on the Borg cube during the orientation before entering.

[Andrew NDB]

I know there's going to be a transgender main character. Is that who it turns out to be?

Yeah. If true, get ready for the SJWs to be up in arms that they didn't cast an actually transgender person for the part. There's no pleasing them.

[IMJ]

Yeah. If true, get ready for the SJWs to be up in arms that they didn't cast an actually transgender person for the part. There's no pleasing them.

I think that second person I mentioned just above might actually be transgender... the one from the Borg Cube.

[Andrew NDB]

I think that second person I mentioned just above might actually be transgender... the one from the Borg Cube.

Maybe that's the way around it. "While we didn't actually cast a transgender actor as this one transgender character, we do HAVE transgender actors on the show."

[Andrew NDB]

Saw episode 3. Man, I don't know. My interest level in this show has waned pretty considerably. This latest one was pretty boring, and the only attempt to spice things up was a forced invasion (and shootout) by the Super Tal Shiar into Picard's home... which was completely pointless because they all die. One survives and is questioned but doesn't reveal anything at all... and then kills himself. Mostly this episode just acts as a framework for Picard (as in Stewart, via proxy) to talk about Brexit in the guise of Starfleet to a captive Trek audience. The sunglasses on the Vulcan admiral suggests an STD connection... that maybe the admiralty have become swapped with Mirror Universe counterparts. Y'know, the whole light sensitivity thing from STD if you're in the wrong universe (even though Vulcans have an inner eyelid... ugh).

Looks like next week it's off to meet the elf, sword-wielding Romulan. Or maybe he's a Vulcan. I don't even care at this point.

I liked seeing Hugh but it just felt so hollow.

[Jester]

Utopia Planitia was an inside job!

[Andrew NDB]

Utopia Planitia was an inside job!

I knew that was coming. Make us think it's the Romulans at first, but it will all come back to the corrupt Starfleet (though while I hate the STD connection, I'm hoping that sunglasses thing is indeed a backdoor to explain away the corrupted higher ups thing as Mirror Universe counterparts later on after Picard and company triumph).

I wonder if we'll get to meet the currently standing Federation president. I can't imagine who that will resemble.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The CIC in sunglasses did feel very weird... I didn't make that connection. If we get another "I'm an Evil Mirror Universe doppleganger but gosh darn you guys need to turn down the lights" character I'm going to throw my model USS Defiant across the room.

Agnes was annoying me last episode, and this episode made me like her. Not sure why, except I guess because we got to see her be less bubbly and Leslie Knope. My wife doesn't see the Leslie similarity, so maybe it's just me?

Hugh was great. Picard utterly broken in the flashback was great. Those uniforms were great.

But did anyone else cringe a couple of places? I thought Cris was going to be seduced by his EMH (why does it look just like him?) at first, and then Narek and his Romulan insider sister also got way too close. Maybe I've been watching too much Game of Thrones...

[newfan]

The CIC in sunglasses did feel very weird... I didn't make that connection. If we get another "I'm an Evil Mirror Universe doppleganger but gosh darn you guys need to turn down the lights" character I'm going to throw my model USS Defiant across the room.

Agnes was annoying me last episode, and this episode made me like her. Not sure why, except I guess because we got to see her be less bubbly and Leslie Knope. My wife doesn't see the Leslie similarity, so maybe it's just me?

Hugh was great. Picard utterly broken in the flashback was great. Those uniforms were great.

But did anyone else cringe a couple of places? I thought Cris was going to be seduced by his EMH (why does it look just like him?) at first, and then Narek and his Romulan insider sister also got way too close. Maybe I've been watching too much Game of Thrones...

Probably a good thing you liked Anges more this time around as it looks like we'll see more of her now that she has joined Picard's mission. (I remembered your previous comment when that happened)

Yeah I noticed that with the siblings, he leaned in to taunt her about her error but the body language seemed a little lusty.

I didn't like that Picard looked a little bad for not checking in on his friend for all those years after everything went down and she was fired, not in his character so I guess it was down to dealing his own 'demons' or whatever.

I need to pay better attention when I watch and not do other things at the same time, can easily miss things.

[Andrew NDB]

The CIC in sunglasses did feel very weird... I didn't make that connection. If we get another "I'm an Evil Mirror Universe doppleganger but gosh darn you guys need to turn down the lights" character I'm going to throw my model USS Defiant across the room.

On the one hand, it's a way of making everybody happy if true. On Stewart's side, he gets to rally against an evil, racist fictionalized UK to a captive audience and get his jollies but at the end of the day the evil Mirror Universe people are sorted and replaced with their normal selves, so the regular Starfleet is restored.

Hugh was great.

Meh. I should have been excited to see him and should be perpetually in awe in these Borg cube sequences... yet I'm mostly just sitting here bored, looking at Romulan hairstyles and wondering why not even 1 Romulan has the classic hairdo.

Picard utterly broken in the flashback was great. Those uniforms were great.

A little "loose" but decent.

But did anyone else cringe a couple of places? I thought Cris was going to be seduced by his EMH (why does it look just like him?)

Oh, I can almost guarantee you it's because that captain guy is going to die pretty soon, Picard is going to take over, but then the captain actor still gets to hang around the ship and the show as the EMH.

I need to pay better attention when I watch and not do other things at the same time, can easily miss things.

It was unusually hard for me to focus on this episode. Nothing was really reeling me in. Even the end with the ship going into warp, it's like, "Eh. C'mon, just go to warp already."

[IMJ]

Even the end with the ship going into warp, it's like, "Eh. C'mon, just go to warp already."

This me was well. They made a mistake by breaking this "Pilot" up into three episodes. It took three weeks to gain traction and that's a problem when your strongest episode was the first.

They should've just aired all three as an old-school pilot movie episode and gotten it out of the way for the series start. But they broke it up to protect the otherwise short "season".

Honestly, I think this whole thing would've been more successful if they'd have called it maybe two or three "made for T.V. movies" and played it off as another facet of "Trek Universe" in the multi-media Trek-pire they are building. Because as three episodes of "T.V." it left a lot to be desired.

[Andrew NDB]

I guess our only hope is to wait until episode 5 or 6 when Kurtzman stepped away and Chabon took over as showrunner, see if it's any different then. That Chabon ran for the hills and exited the showrunner role immediately when season 1 wrapped probably doesn't instill a lot of confidence, though.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm still waiting to see badass dual-wielding Seven of Nine. :tcool:

And hillbilly woodshop worker Dad Riker. :tlol:

[Jester]

Hugh says that the Romulans on the Artifact are the only Romulans ever assimilated...but Voyager shows a few.

Maybe the ones on Voyager were assimilated after he was separated from the Borg...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hugh says that the Romulans on the Artifact are the only Romulans ever assimilated...but Voyager shows a few.

Maybe the ones on Voyager were assimilated after he was separated from the Borg...

You could always chalk up the Voyager Borg to being Vulcans, not Romulans.

[Vegita-San]

You could always chalk up the Voyager Borg to being Vulcans, not Romulans.

how could you say such a racist thing? I'm ashamed! ashamed!

:)

[Jester]

You could always chalk up the Voyager Borg to being Vulcans, not Romulans.
https://i.imgur.com/KB683Wz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unity_(episode)

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

https://i.imgur.com/KB683Wz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Unity_(episode)

Looks like a Klingon to me. :trazz:

[Andrew NDB]

This made me really laugh on FB today:

https://i.ibb.co/KbrNXSH/Screenshot-20200208-195616-Facebook.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Vpty9xj/20200208-195751.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/ccVL2Q0/received-177982480153456.jpg

[Jester]

So Romulans use the term "Bite me!" and Jean-Luc goes on a Federation mission but is out of uniform? What the heck is going on with the series?

[Jester]

Romulan Warrior Nuns? That's a thing? How bizarre...

When the series says it all for you.....I mean....

Also, is this whole series one big play to get Picard to "check his privilege"? I mean the admiral calling out his sheer f-ing hubris, him having Raffi call Central Station and say he is the one requesting access to the planet only to get summarily denied...it seems to be little thing that are building up.

[IMJ]

Not a fan of the hologram technology popping up in everything. I loved it in Iron Man - it made sense, but now every single future technology in movies & T.V. uses it. And quite frankly it doesn't seem like the best way to pilot a spaceship - I mean - of all the things that could go wrong, just say that something as simple as the hit detection or motion tracking were off even by a milometer and you'd have missed evasions and so on.

That nerd stuff aside, I'm just not a fan of the holography used everywhere "just because".

[Leo656]

Oh, lord, I had the same reaction back in the day. Watched Iron Man, thought that hologram stuff was cool, and then I'm like "Oh, God, now it's gonna be in everything", and here we are.

I'm not watching this show at the moment but I'm sad that people seem disappointed. This political climate is gonna have to seriously change before movies and TV get any good again, unfortunately. That might take a few years.

[IMJ]

Oh, lord, I had the same reaction back in the day. Watched Iron Man, thought that hologram stuff was cool, and then I'm like "Oh, God, now it's gonna be in everything", and here we are.

I'm not watching this show at the moment but I'm sad that people seem disappointed. This political climate is gonna have to seriously change before movies and TV get any good again, unfortunately. That might take a few years.

I keep telling myself that the introductory episodes of T.V. are traditionally not very good. You go through the cast growing pains and the story slowness of the traditional and cliche "storming and norming" of the group.

Picard is suffering from this badly, and so I can only hope that it picks up once they've gotten the "crew assembly BS" out of the way. They should've just aired the first three eps as a single pilot episode like the good old days. Instead they decided to milk it.

[Andrew NDB]

A bunch of people online talking about "Is Star Trek ready for a Hispanic captain and a Hispanic-named ship?"

Where do these people come from? We've had actual aliens from other worlds captaining Starfleet ships. There is no new ground to be broken in these things!

[IMJ]

A bunch of people online talking about "Is Star Trek ready for a Hispanic captain and a Hispanic-named ship?"

Where do these people come from? We've had actual aliens from other worlds captaining Starfleet ships. There is no new ground to be broken in these things!

Honestly man, these behaviors come from a few observable clusters of people - here are four examples, and I'm barely scratching the surface.

First, you have the younger cross section of this. A lifetime far leftist will never admit to this, but most reasonable people know that these are patterns that are stronger in youth and you tend to grow out of it with education and achievement. And so you have people making comments like you cited who are kid "trying this stuff on to see how it feels" And also the pull of addiction to those patterns is staggering. Finding "evil" and combating it with righteous buzzwords is an aphrodisiac to many. It's the same behavior as the Salem Witch Hunts in the 1800's and people seeing Communists in their sleep in the 50's. It's not so hard to see the patterns between now and those two historical examples.

Second, consider that a lot of that posting comes from the uneducated. People whose big chance at being smart is simply delivering on the group think with sternly worded action items. "It's time that...." or "Are we ready for...". And of course anybody with any experience knows that people cover up weakness, fear and lack of wisdom by delivering information within the context of rage and "finality of words". We've got a guy here on the forums who shall remain nameless, but he does it all of the time. And so, things like what you cited are huge action items for making the uneducated finally feel smart about something.

Third, consider that the internet gives anonymity to people's ages, incomes, state of mental health, etc. And so you have anyone who's voice is enhance by being online whereas it's diminished or not credible in the real world. Hell man, even studies (https://yournews.com/2020/02/12/1449692/survey-finds-people-who-identify-as-left-wing-more-likely-to/) show that the liberal spectrum is more likely to have any degree (minor or major) of mental illness or impairment over the right. And you can't expect a liberal to fess up to it because the inability to look at oneself over blaming the rest of the wold is actually the root of a lot of psychosis right there.

The fourth group who would write what you cited are the manipulators. Be it someone using shame for personal gain (like the Clintons); or as any control tool to manipulate groups, nothing screams "control device" better than "shame". And an easy way to shame people is through far left liberalism where you can find fault in any action at all whatsoever. "I feel like having a female captain on Star Trek today so to make this happen I'll shut anyone down who disagrees with me by calling them a 'misogynist".

There are four, tangible, hard examples that illustrate why being an extreme liberal is so problematic, and lend explanation to how you sort of questioned "who are these people"? Lastly, consider the totality of the extreme and even middle-left populations against the sheer number of people that were exemplified here and you can see how much of the left is littered with people who can't even think straight. I'd bet that at least 99% of people running around in rallys in black masks are comprised in the population I've described here. The point is that a lot of the left very, very clearly falls under these clusters.

[Andrew NDB]

I was mostly being rhetorical but that... yeah, hard to argue any of that.

Also seeing a lot on the theory that, if not the series arc but the season arc with Picard is him learning to let go of "his privilege."

[IMJ]

I was mostly being rhetorical but that... yeah, hard to argue any of that.

Also seeing a lot on the theory that, if not the series arc but the season arc with Picard is him learning to let go of "his privilege."

I can see it. We've already had a female admiral admonish him for his hubris, his friend Raffey living in a trailer and admonishing him for his nice house with "high beams and antique furniture" and the Romulan planet being "less than impressed" with his request for entry.

So basically for him to "let go of his privilege" Hollywood's answer is for him to retire and go away, choose to live in a lesser home, and to wait in line. I'd be interested in hearing how "the people of Hollywood" feel about their message translating into the real world?

[Sumac]

So basically for him to "let go of his privilege" Hollywood's answer is for him to retire and go away, choose to live in a lesser home, and to wait in line. I'd be interested in hearing how "the people of Hollywood" feel about their message translating into the real world?
But they spread the right message, they deserve all the luxuries for the all the hard-lifting they did!

Inequality? Socialism? What? I hardly knew'er! :P

[IMJ]

LOL exactly!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The "everybody hates Picard" is the single worst part of this show so far. And I'm loving the show.

Even though they think Romulan nun assassins are more deadly than Jem'Hadar firsts or Borg drones. Sure. :tlol:

I'll believe a trained Romulan assassin can take down any number of Klingon warriors or Nausicaan brutes, but nobody's $hit compared to Jem'Hadar or Borg. It's just obvious.

[IMJ]

The "everybody hates Picard" is the single worst part of this show so far.

There are a lot of problems with it and there are plenty of solid criticisms.

-when Picard is denied access to the planet regardless of his identity we were left feeling like he was going to look at the camera and wink. It was cringe worthy.
-Every time Raffey calls him "JL" it's cringe worthy.
-Watching her truly awful, overboard stage acting while she was in the desert swilling wine as if she's been drunk for days was cringe worthy.
-watching the Romulan guy and the android girl slide across a floor in their socky lil feet which results in a sate of romantic charge as if that was somehow a climactic experience with each other was cringe worthy.
-watching old-man Picard out of breath after walking up stairs but then being blown 30 feet in the air from an explosion blast wave was cringe worthy.

On the other hand, some of the criticism born of "piling on" drive me nuts. I can't help but think it's vitriol disguised as criticism, but you can sense when people dig deep to keep justifying whatever they don't like about the show. I have a buddy that does this a lot - unless something is a clear, almost child-like, one-to-one analog to TNG, then it's not Star Trek. He uses a lot of stretch examples to illustrate this but doesn't recognize that his stretch examples are serving a flawed foundation in premise to begin with.

For example, the cursing in Picard has been criticized and this can be invalid or valid. An invalid criticism is the easy argument that "in Star Trek people have moved beyond that and it's just not Star Trek". That sounds logical enough, but this is a child-like view. Most reasonable people would say that we are seeing a lot less of Starfleet during tactical, diplomatic or active situations so far in the show. It becomes easy to see that people will swear less frequently or never during formal duty where Star Trek normally takes place. So basically, that criticism is lowest common denominator thinking. A more accurate criticism about this would be that cursing in this show is egregious and fairly unnecessary. It leads us to question the motivations of the show runners. In the past, the rare occasions of swearing in Star Trek served the story or had an added element of humor (i.e., Kirk and Spock as men out of time or Data with an emotion chip issue during a crash disaster). But in Picard the cursing is an empty, phony way to push the envelop. And so it just comes off as agenda without adding anything of substance.

Just something to consider when you experience those people who like to "pile on". The fact is that there's enough in the show to criticize with validity. I've always viewed people who ''piled on" as weak - whether in professional, personal or entertainment situations, it just proves to me that someone and their argument is weak.

[Andrew NDB]

"Well, it's not as bad as STD" seems kind of the go to. And isn't wrong.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There are a lot of problems with it and there are plenty of solid criticisms.

when Picard is denied access to the planet regardless of his identity we were left feeling like he was going to look at the camera and wink. It was cringe worthy.

A little on the nose, but I'd hardly call that cringeworthy. I saw a tired old man still living in the constant reminder of defeat. The Romulans feel betrayed... yes, you could argue it's "white man privilege being revoked." But that doesn't mean it has to be that.

-Every time Raffey calls him "JL" it's cringe worthy.Watching her truly awful, overboard stage acting while she was in the desert swilling wine as if she's been drunk for days was cringe worthy.
My wife hates Raffi, too, but I love her. She's a hurting woman, and she clearly has always had a more casual, grounded approach. I love the "JL." Only she could pull it off.

-watching the Romulan guy and the android girl slide across a floor in their socky lil feet which results in a sate of romantic charge as if that was somehow a climactic experience with each other was cringe worthy.

Zero argument. Narek, Soji, and Incestuous Romulan Sister played by Peyton List are the consistent weak points of any episode so far.

-watching old-man Picard out of breath after walking up stairs but then being blown 30 feet in the air from an explosion blast wave was cringe worthy.

Over-the-top blockbuster, sure, but I think you're using "cringeworthy" enough that it's losing its punch. Or did you seriously hate that "sure Picard survives this" moment as bad giggle sockfoot sliding on Borg corridors? One's a willing suspension of disbelief... one's just (you said it) cringeworthy. :tsmile:

For example, the cursing in Picard has been criticized and this can be invalid or valid. An invalid criticism is the easy argument that "in Star Trek people have moved beyond that and it's just not Star Trek". That sounds logical enough, but this is a child-like view. Most reasonable people would say that we are seeing a lot less of Starfleet during tactical, diplomatic or active situations so far in the show. It becomes easy to see that people will swear less frequently or never during formal duty where Star Trek normally takes place. So basically, that criticism is lowest common denominator thinking. A more accurate criticism about this would be that cursing in this show is egregious and fairly unnecessary. It leads us to question the motivations of the show runners. In the past, the rare occasions of swearing in Star Trek served the story or had an added element of humor (i.e., Kirk and Spock as men out of time or Data with an emotion chip issue during a crash disaster). But in Picard the cursing is an empty, phony way to push the envelop. And so it just comes off as agenda without adding anything of substance.

How did you feel about Tilly and Stamets saying "fvcking cool?" Because I loved that. It's how I personally converse, so it's nice to finally see Star Trek characters use language. It's not for every character, but it can work. Now, the Starfleet admiral dropping the F-bomb on Picard... that was ridiculous.

"Well, it's not as bad as STD" seems kind of the go to. And isn't wrong.

That's a great baseline. And I think Star Trek Picard is far above "at least not as bad as STD." It has problems, yes, but it's doing a damn fine job of continuing the Star Trek story.

Remember, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT all had their own serious problems.
There's never been a perfect Star Trek show. (Though I'll go to my grave insisting DS9 was the closest.)

[Jester]

Forgot one...
https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/star-trek-the-animated-series-cbs.jpg?w=780

[IMJ]

A little on the nose, but I'd hardly call that cringeworthy. I saw a tired old man still living in the constant reminder of defeat. The Romulans feel betrayed... yes, you could argue it's "white man privilege being revoked." But that doesn't mean it has to be that.

Hm, yeah I'd say this is true and I suppose when I saw the ep that was closer to how I felt at that moment although now in writing this earlier it seems fitting to include it in a list of valid points.


My wife hates Raffi, too, but I love her. She's a hurting woman, and she clearly has always had a more casual, grounded approach. I love the "JL." Only she could pull it off.

I just hope she winds up doing something that makes her a bit more endearing. The JL thing? I dunno man, you might be alone in that. I confess that disliking it is more of a personal nuance than a show component that we could dissect, but I've got to tell you that seems to be the #1 go-to for fanhate on two ST Facebook groups I'm in and also on the Omega Sector boards. But I get the logic - the years in between Nemesis and this show could afford Picard the kind of relationship that we never saw develop where this makes more sense. But it just strikes me as another way to play up one character at anothers expense rather than endearing. That's all I've got for that one.

Zero argument. Narek, Soji, and Incestuous Romulan Sister played by Peyton List are the consistent weak points of any episode so far.

Oh God, I forgot about the incestuous sister. All I've got for that until more is explained is WTF? And I can't imagine an explanation that gets me past WTF?

Over-the-top blockbuster, sure, but I think you're using "cringeworthy" enough that it's losing its punch. Or did you seriously hate that "sure Picard survives this" moment as bad giggle sockfoot sliding on Borg corridors? One's a willing suspension of disbelief... one's just (you said it) cringeworthy. :tsmile:

I absolutely get your point, especially against, ironically, my writing a post about piling on. But was it as 'cringeworthy" as other aspects of the show? No, of course not. But watching it, during Ep I when old man Picard went flying did I recoil on my couch, audibly scoff, make a keyboard backslash motion with my mouth? You bet I did... and that is a cringe.

How did you feel about Tilly and Stamets saying "fvcking cool?" Because I loved that. It's how I personally converse, so it's nice to finally see Star Trek characters use language. It's not for every character, but it can work. Now, the Starfleet admiral dropping the F-bomb on Picard... that was ridiculous.

Oh man, I thought it was terrible. That CW-style character bumbling around and Stamets sort of rolling his googly eyes in his head replying "No! It is fvcking cool!" LOL I dunno man. And don't get me wrong, like you I converse like that from time to time as well, but I think Discovery is so far gone with the wokefest in all aspects that speaking holistically or top down a lot of that becomes unforgivable lost on me. Besides, I've never watched Star Trek to see an "exceptionally talented fat chick with a bad complexion so as only to prove that they may exist in the real world".

And the gay character thing? Look, I'll tell you now that I've got a handful of gay colleagues who maybe aren't "friends" but are far enough along to be "drinkin' buddies" and even they think it's ridiculous when the only way to depict gay people in entertainment is constantly remind you of their gayness. I think that right there is enough to demonstrate how problematic the current climate is, and how they are failing at it miserably on Star Trek. It's like Hollywood doesn't know what to do with gay people other than showing them actually being gay in action all the time rather than just being people and the orientation is secondary or tertiary. I hate to say it, but the friggin' Abrams-verse did it best. You watch two or three movies with Sulu and never give any thought to this sexual orientation, but then in an instant he's shown with his husband and you learn a little more about his character from it. And generally speaking it's all good - that's all you need from it.


There's never been a perfect Star Trek show. (Though I'll go to my grave insisting DS9 was the closest.)

I've got a buddy who swears by this too. Just a funny, somewhat unrelated story about that - the thing about this buddy of mine was that he spent years trashing Star Trek in lieu of Star Wars, but now he denies he ever did it and claims he's watched ST all of his life. Yet, back in the day I'd tell him how I grew up watching TOS on reruns amidst his biggest argument being that Star Trek was boring (comparison bias) and all the ships did was move slowly through space (comprehension issue), or that Star Trek was all "talking heads" (experience issue). I don't remember how - maybe Wrath of Kahn and some TNG, but eventually I got him watching some more Trek, but now his conversations are laced with here and there revisionist history made to look like he's always been on board. My only stake in it is that he takes this position but I've known the guy for more than 20 years; it's like "dude, I was f'n there! LMAO!". Anyway, he swears by DS9 was the best Trek, but his whole argument for this focuses only on the Dominion War seasons, which isn't very convincing when you have 7 seasons of the show lingering around. DS9 had some issues early on, but it became much more entertaining once it found it's serialized footing. Some of the space battle stuff was great for the time, but nowadays comes off as short cut scenes when you watch them again. I did like Sisko's unique personality and development into command. I'm more likely to power watch Enterprise, or to sporadically turn on a TNG ep.

Forgot one...
https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/star-trek-the-animated-series-cbs.jpg?w=780

This is the one Star Trek that I have never watched all of. I've probably seen two episodes of this show. Maybe not even that much, but I just can't get through 'em.

[Andrew NDB]

The very best Trek (to me):

TNG seasons 3-6.
DS9 seasons 5-7.
ENT season 3.

You watch two or three movies with Sulu and never give any thought to this sexual orientation, but then in an instant he's shown with his husband and you learn a little more about his character from it. And generally speaking it's all good - that's all you need from it.

Except George Takei hated it and felt it was a betrayal, since for decades he'd always played the character of Sulu as straight. The story about Simon Pegg excitedly calling him to tell him the wonderful news (expecting him to be overjoyed, of course) is pretty funny.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Forgot one...
https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/star-trek-the-animated-series-cbs.jpg?w=780

I don't even consider that a different series, branding aside. It's just more of The Original Series... same writers, same characters. Just animated, not acted. But I don't make the distinction because I think that calling it "The Animated Series" does it a disservice and allows people to easily dismiss it.

The very best Trek (to me):

TNG seasons 3-6.
DS9 seasons 5-7.
ENT season 3.

I'd agree with you, except I'd pull DS9 back to 3-7. And there was never one consistently good Voyager season. :tlol:

I just hope she winds up doing something that makes her a bit more endearing. The JL thing? I dunno man, you might be alone in that. I confess that disliking it is more of a personal nuance than a show component that we could dissect, but I've got to tell you that seems to be the #1 go-to for fanhate on two ST Facebook groups I'm in and also on the Omega Sector boards. But I get the logic - the years in between Nemesis and this show could afford Picard the kind of relationship that we never saw develop where this makes more sense. But it just strikes me as another way to play up one character at anothers expense rather than endearing. That's all I've got for that one.

I don't even see it as Jean-Luc likes it... he tolerates it because it's Raffi. A character who gives no $hits. Kind of like Nerys might have treated Sisko if he wasn't almost immediately labeled the Emissary. I can see why most people hate it, though. I'm just trying to give Raffi the benefit of the doubt, because I'm hoping for great things from her.

Oh God, I forgot about the incestuous sister. All I've got for that until more is explained is WTF? And I can't imagine an explanation that gets me past WTF?

I've always wanted a Romulan main character. Now I've got multiple Romulan main characters. But except for Laris and Zhaven back in France, none of them are any good yet. One's a dweeb who reminds me uncomfortably of Edward Cullen from Twilight... and the other is his sister and wants to bang him. :tlol:

Oh man, I thought it was terrible. That CW-style character bumbling around and Stamets sort of rolling his googly eyes in his head replying "No! It is fvcking cool!" LOL I dunno man. And don't get me wrong, like you I converse like that from time to time as well, but I think Discovery is so far gone with the wokefest in all aspects that speaking holistically or top down a lot of that becomes unforgivable lost on me. Besides, I've never watched Star Trek to see an "exceptionally talented fat chick with a bad complexion so as only to prove that they may exist in the real world".

I can see where you're coming from with the "Tilly as token woke character." Myself, I just see her as a better version of the young officer / teenager. A better Wesley, if you will. And while I like my eyecandy in catsuits, I do think it's fine to deliberately cast an actress who's on the thicker side. She reminds me of my baby sister, so I've got a soft spot for Tilly.

And the gay character thing? Look, I'll tell you now that I've got a handful of gay colleagues who maybe aren't "friends" but are far enough along to be "drinkin' buddies" and even they think it's ridiculous when the only way to depict gay people in entertainment is constantly remind you of their gayness. I think that right there is enough to demonstrate how problematic the current climate is, and how they are failing at it miserably on Star Trek. It's like Hollywood doesn't know what to do with gay people other than showing them actually being gay in action all the time rather than just being people and the orientation is secondary or tertiary. I hate to say it, but the friggin' Abrams-verse did it best. You watch two or three movies with Sulu and never give any thought to this sexual orientation, but then in an instant he's shown with his husband and you learn a little more about his character from it. And generally speaking it's all good - that's all you need from it.

I didn't see Stamets as constantly reminding us of his gayness. Or Culber. Besides, it's long past time Star Trek had homosexual characters in their franchise. It's been a long time since the first interracial kiss, or the first black captain, or the first woman captain.

Now, any character on the CW shows... THOSE are always reminding everyone how gay they are. Or some Netflix shows.

[IMJ]

as a betrayal, since for decades he'd always played the character of Sulu as straight. The story about Simon Pegg excitedly calling him to tell him the wonderful news (expecting him to be overjoyed, of course) is pretty funny.

Yup. But I wasn't going to open that can or worms amidst all of those other, very real points I was making... :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

I can see where you're coming from with the "Tilly as token woke character." Myself, I just see her as a better version of the young officer / teenager. A better Wesley, if you will. And while I like my eyecandy in catsuits, I do think it's fine to deliberately cast an actress who's on the thicker side. She reminds me of my baby sister, so I've got a soft spot for Tilly.

I see her more like a young, somewhat less awkward Barclay. She's fine as a character and it's fine that she's a little pudgy, but man they give her some dumb material.

[IMJ]

I see her more like a young, somewhat less awkward Barclay. She's fine as a character and it's fine that she's a little pudgy, but man they give her some dumb material.

This is interesting, and I agree. But it's interesting because I was having a conversation about this just the other day with the same friend I was talking about above. He was flinging mud as much mud at Picard as he could and that included the Scott Pilgrim chick - I don't even remember the specifics, but he was just hating on the character.

And I brought up Barclay in a little bit of comparison to the Scott Pilgrim chick as well. But he wasn't hearing that at all... lmao!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I see her more like a young, somewhat less awkward Barclay. She's fine as a character and it's fine that she's a little pudgy, but man they give her some dumb material.

Oof. I didn't even think of the Barclay comparison.

Man, I hate Barclay. :tlol:

Harry Kim, Chakotay, Barclay, and Michael Burnham are in my top four "I want them to suffer a tragic transporter accident" list. Which is a shame, because Burnham is portrayed by a pretty great actress... she's just really badly written.

[Andrew NDB]

And I brought up Barclay in a little bit of comparison to the Scott Pilgrim chick as well. But he wasn't hearing that at all... lmao!

Still have yet to watch that movie. Seems so... gimmicky.

Harry Kim, Chakotay, Barclay, and Michael Burnham are in my top four "I want them to suffer a tragic transporter accident" list. Which is a shame, because Burnham is portrayed by a pretty great actress... she's just really badly written.

Well, she has personality and perkiness. Give her some good material, then we'll see what she can do with it.

You guys should watch this. Pretty spot-on and the "Osh Kosh Va Gosh" was hysterical:

GkDmRy6SP28

[Leo656]

Scott Pilgrim's really good. I didn't think I was gonna like it but my buddy talked me into it and I loved it. Although it's very "stylized" so mileage may vary. But it's very clever.

Brandon Routh full-on punches a chick in the face, so if nothing else there's that. :lol: Him and Chris Evans steal the whole thing. Ending's kind of a misfire but go figure, test audiences wanted to see the nerd get the hot girl. It's really good other than that though.

...I have nothing to add that is Trek-related, unfortunately. :lol:

[IMJ]

Scott Pilgrim's really good. I didn't think I was gonna like it but my buddy talked me into it and I loved it. Although it's very "stylized" so mileage may vary. But it's very clever.

Brandon Routh full-on punches a chick in the face, so if nothing else there's that. :lol: Him and Chris Evans steal the whole thing. Ending's kind of a misfire but go figure, test audiences wanted to see the nerd get the hot girl. It's really good other than that though.

...I have nothing to add that is Trek-related, unfortunately. :lol:

It's the only movie other than Superbad where I can sit through a Michael Cera flick. And all of the cameos are great - even the Brie Larson cameo. It was before I knew who she was, but in hindsight the part was perfect for her.

Anyway, I refer to the Star Trek chick as the Scott Pilgrim girl because I don't know her real name and don't care about her character enough yet to recall that name either. The android-cyberneticist blonde.

[Leo656]

Holy sh*t, you're right, Brie Larson WAS in that. :lol: I totally forgot!

I was too busy picking up the pieces of my brain when I realized that chicken wasn't vegan.

[IMJ]

Holy sh*t, you're right, Brie Larson WAS in that. :lol: I totally forgot!

I was too busy picking up the pieces of my brain when I realized that chicken wasn't vegan.

"I partake of nothing with... a.... face"

[Leo656]

Jesus, you're making me wanna watch it again right now. :lol:

F*ck it, I'm goin' for it. Thanks bruh.

[Andrew NDB]

Also wasn't bad as kind of a college hipster in 21 Jump Street.

Between that, what I understand her part was in Scott Pilgrim, and winning the Oscar for showing no emotion in "Room"... it kind of seems like she's been elevated by doing roles that require her just to be herself.

[Leo656]

That movie also solidified to me just how awesome Brandon Routh is. I'm glad that now apparently everyone knows.

Tom Jane, too. That flick is just a gift that keeps on giving.

[IMJ]

Thanks bruh.

"What.... did.... I....doooooo? What... do I dooooooo?"

[Leo656]

"What? I'm not afraid to hit a girl. I'm a rock star." :lol:

And man, Brie Larson looks way different now than she did then, having watched it again.

[Andrew NDB]

Has anyone seen episode 5? I'm seeing people really hating it, saying it's like "The Birdcage." And Picard gets talked down by another strong woman.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Has anyone seen episode 5? I'm seeing people really hating it, saying it's like "The Birdcage." And Picard gets talked down by another strong woman.

Dude, Seven of Nine will talk ANYONE down.

Assuming it's her; I won't see the episode until tonight.

[Jester]

It was...ok. Yes Picard gets another tongue lashing, but we know this character so it fits. Still want to watch it again to cement my thoughts.

[Jester]

Has anyone been watching the Ready Room with Will Weaton? Does anyone else find his exuberance a bit excessive and put on?

[IMJ]

Has anyone been watching the Ready Room with Will Weaton? Does anyone else find his exuberance a bit excessive and put on?

I don't begrudge his happiness or excitement, but yeah I agree that it seems.... I don't know... forced? Enhanced to be greater than it is?

So far I haven't found the ready room to be very good. The Talking Dead did it much better as a live, late-night talk show style. It was impromtu and fun. This is just scripted crap like it should be a special feature on a DVD.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Has anyone been watching the Ready Room with Will Weaton? Does anyone else find his exuberance a bit excessive and put on?

I'm enjoying it. I like Wil.

Didn't like how brutally they killed off Icheb, though. That fvcking sucked.

Fun watching Seven avenge him, though.

[ZariusTwo]

Has anyone been watching the Ready Room with Will Weaton? Does anyone else find his exuberance a bit excessive and put on?

So long as he gets us all to shout "Shut up Wesley" at the TV....

[Coola Yagami]

It was...ok. Yes Picard gets another tongue lashing, but we know this character so it fits. Still want to watch it again to cement my thoughts.

That seems to be a common trend nowadays, let's talk down the big man and knock him down a peg.

Idk, while Kirk could have used some humbling, Picard just seemed like a nicer, more serious dude that commanded respect.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That seems to be a common trend nowadays, let's talk down the big man and knock him down a peg.

Idk, while Kirk could have used some humbling, Picard just seemed like a nicer, more serious dude that commanded respect.

Picard absolutely does not deserve a tongue lashing. At least not the Picard from TNG.

I still have a hard time believing Jean-Luc Picard, who faced down the Borg multiple times, the Romulans and Cardassians as well, and took such a pivotal role in the Klingon Empire's politics, would just go home to France to pout.

Look what he did on behalf of the Ba'ku, just a few hundred dumb farmers. Compared to an entire homeworld?

Fvck no. My man wouldn't give up. And you all know it.

[Andrew NDB]

Eh, it wasn't as bad as I feared. Seven mostly saved the episode, somehow. But man, some terrible writing.

What exactly was the purpose in not just killing Icheb before extracting his implants? Or just giving him anesthetic? Like, what was the benefit? It just seems like an out-of-place gruesome scene just there for gruesome's sake. Also, would hugging Icheb while phasering him actually hurt Seven, too? By the same stroke that if you phaser someone in the toe, all of them disintegrates?

The charade with costumes was a whole lot of setup that ultimately went nowhere.

Raffi's son plot was a big nothing.

5 episodes in, halfway through the season... and we haven't even seen any space stuff aside from the brief scuffle last episode. We haven't seen a single Starfleet starship or anything.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Eh, it wasn't as bad as I feared. Seven mostly saved the episode, somehow. But man, some terrible writing.

What exactly was the purpose in not just killing Icheb before extracting his implants? Or just giving him anesthetic? Like, what was the benefit? It just seems like an out-of-place gruesome scene just there for gruesome's sake.

The charade with costumes was a whole lot of setup that ultimately went nowhere.

Raffi's son plot was a big nothing.

5 episodes in, halfway through the season... and we haven't even seen any space stuff aside from the brief scuffle last episode.

Super gruesome. I did NOT like that. For fvck's sake, the character was a KID when we last saw him.

Now if they'd done it to Chakotay, well... still gruesome, but nowhere near as heartwrenching... :tlol:

And Picard in costume was just silly. Stupid, even. I didn't care for it.

Seven definitely saved the episode.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/yRTGC7F/87208732-2807987432613343-686896632205148160-o.jpg

Now if they'd done it to Chakotay, well... still gruesome, but nowhere near as heartwrenching... :tlol:

Hah, true!

And Picard in costume was just silly. Stupid, even. I didn't care for it.

And did they intentionally give him a terrible fake French accent? When the character is supposed to be French to begin with? I don't get it.

[Jester]

It may just be a scheduling issue but did it bother anybody else that they recast both Bruce Maddox and Icheb? I mean Bruce Maddox I can almost understand that actor hasn't been working for years but the kid who played Icheb has still been playing Icheb for fan productions.

[Andrew NDB]

It may just be a scheduling issue but did it bother anybody else that they recast both Bruce Maddox and Icheb? I mean Bruce Maddox I can almost understand that actor hasn't been working for years but the kid who played Icheb has still been playing Icheb for fan productions.

Huh, I actually assumed it was the same actor for Icheb, but that was a distractingly different actor for Maddox. All that build-up to him and it's just some random curly-haired actor... lame. Also lame that they'd bring back Icheb (without even using the same actor) just to kill him off in 30 seconds so Seven can avenge someone.

[IMJ]

It may just be a scheduling issue but did it bother anybody else that they recast both Bruce Maddox and Icheb? I mean Bruce Maddox I can almost understand that actor hasn't been working for years but the kid who played Icheb has still been playing Icheb for fan productions.

I've had similar convos in the Star Trek Facebook group about the casting.

And what was with the implied romantic nonsense between 7 and the Body Harvester Chick? Was anyone else left with the a sense of some hanky panky going on there? What the hell was the point of that? What did it add?

Don't get me wrong, the idea of Jerri Ryan getting busy with another chick is an utterly tantalizing though, but it seemed like agenda-laden nonsense to me. I mean think about this... what was the statement, what took precedence there? That 7 was a jaded muff diver or that there was an evil chick... helllooo... harvesting bodies!

The exchange and messaging was complete nonsense!

[Andrew NDB]

And what was with the implied romantic nonsense between 7 and the Body Harvester Chick? Was anyone else left with the a sense of some hanky panky going on there? What the hell was the point of that? What did it add?

It was the "our close, personal relationship" line from the Troi lookalike chick spoken all sultry-like. I was immediately thinking, "Oh, they used to mess around." But then all of Seven's next dialogue suggested no, that wasn't at all the case. But I'm still confused by it. Maybe they were? It's just so strange, from a writing standpoint. It seems the purpose of so many things in the episode is to build up Seven's anger and give her a villain to dispose of that the audience has been coaxed into hating. Which is fine... but they just did it really, really bizarrely. Also, what's so special about random Borg implants?

[IMJ]

Also, what's so special about random Borg implants?

I don't know.... the only thing I got out of it was that since 7 was a Borg from childhood to adult life, then maybe she had stronger nanites in greater number than other converted who just had surface tech.

But even so - I mean clearly civilizations have been studying the Borg now for years. Even if only based on the single Borg cube and the drones you'd figure that people could just synthesize Borg parts.

I dunno. It's all a mess that has the most superficial of cliche writing.

[Jester]

See I totally miss that subtext so I guess I need to watch it again to see if I catch it the second time.

[IMJ]

See I totally miss that subtext so I guess I need to watch it again to see if I catch it the second time.

It was weird man. But the awkwardness goes further than just out context for the character - it was intentionally directed or acted in such a manner that you can't help but feel that the showrunners are so mired in agenda that now they lost their intent by including it in a half-assed and weird manner if only to pander to the same-sex community without actually going there.

There are eye glances, and tonality and 7 is reinforcing "I am the one that got away" and there's this double entente about it where your left feeling like "yes this is about her escaping a villain, but also it's one jaded woman trying to provoke her ex into reinforcing how she'll never have her again which actually means she's still jaded as hell in the first place". And then there are these replies - it's just a mess of half-in half-out innuendo that was very strange. It's almost like you are left feeling that 7 was molested or raped or something by body-harvester-chick, only she enjoyed it and was saddened by their parting.

And if there was no intention for this weird display of shrouded same sexuality by the showrunners, then at the very least the whole exchange was very misdirected and poorly acted.

[Jester]

It would seem that the actor who played Icheb in Voyager tweeted back in 2017 in support of Kevin Spacey when Anthony Rapp said that he sexually assaulted him and that is probably why he was not asked to reprise his role.

[Andrew NDB]

It would seem that the actor who played Icheb in Voyager tweeted back in 2017 in support of Kevin Spacey when Anthony Rapp said that he sexually assaulted him and that is probably why he was not asked to reprise his role.

Oh jeeze. That's probably it exactly, then. Probably also explains Icheb's hasty death... it's TPTB "killing" the actor, too. Metaphorically, since this takes off the board his chance to ever reprise the part.

[IMJ]

It would seem that the actor who played Icheb in Voyager tweeted back in 2017 in support of Kevin Spacey when Anthony Rapp said that he sexually assaulted him and that is probably why he was not asked to reprise his role.

Okay, I'm not saying to support child molesters, okay? Don't do that.

However, as a point if there ever is a physical, true Civil War in this country mark my words that there's going to be a list of cancel-culture-strategists and those people are going down, man. They lived cancel culture and in some kind of a civil war, they'd be the first to be cancelled.

Cancel culture is ****in evil manifested into action under the guise of social justice. And that is exactly why social justice is bull $#!(. We can vote with our dollars and our business, but the outcry to destroy lives because of old tweets.... oh man, I can't even describe the anger I have about empowering complainers like that.

Cancel culture is not free market selection - it's group vigilantism.

-Waits for someone to be clever and state that cancel culture is a free market response because companies don't HAVE to let people go. I can't wait to shed the light on that foolish justification-

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It may just be a scheduling issue but did it bother anybody else that they recast both Bruce Maddox and Icheb? I mean Bruce Maddox I can almost understand that actor hasn't been working for years but the kid who played Icheb has still been playing Icheb for fan productions.

Wait, that wasn't the OG Icheb actor? I thought it was. :tsad:

And what was with the implied romantic nonsense between 7 and the Body Harvester Chick? Was anyone else left with the a sense of some hanky panky going on there? What the hell was the point of that? What did it add?

Seven should NOT be a lesbian. Voyager c0ckblocked the EMH Doctor at every turn, and DAMMIT, Doctor and Seven had amazing chemistry! I want my Seven/Doctor romance to be official, dammit, and so should you!

It was the "our close, personal relationship" line from the Troi lookalike chick spoken all sultry-like.

She looked WAY too much like Deanna Troi. That was super weird.

[Jester]

Watching Angry Joe's midseason review and it dawned on me...what happened to Soji's human friend who didn't know Romulans could be so hot?

[Andrew NDB]

Uv-wmixiiMA

Covering 4 and 5 now. This one, I didn't find myself disagreeing at all, really. And it gets into the Icheb/Icheb actor thing. The actor's character was burned as an effigy of the actor for social justice. For what he said on Twitter.

[newfan]

I am two eps behind, just catching up. I was not expecting that first scene, guy crying out as his eye was being pulled out. Never thought I would be turning the volume down on Star Trek.

[Stephen]

Picard episode #07 was accidentally released in Japan instead of #06
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/episode-7-nepenthe-already-released-in-japan.303248/

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Last night's episode was awesome.

Soji and Narek were finally interesting!

[Stephen]

And also, a reference to the Voyager S1 episode, "Prime Factors" in this episode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Factors_(Star_Trek:_Voyager)

The Sikarians are referenced in Star Trek Picard, season 1 episode 6, The Impossible Box, stating that the Borg eventually assimilated their world and by extension their trajector technology and integrated it into Borg cubes for the quick escape of a Borg queen.

[Andrew NDB]

Picard episode #07 was accidentally released in Japan instead of #06
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/episode-7-nepenthe-already-released-in-japan.303248/

Doesn't appear to have leaked anywhere more... meaningful. That I can tell.

[Jester]

I'm working through selected episodes of TNG to see if it helps make Picard a better watch....and I caught something in Family (the episode where Jean Luc returns to Chateau Picard after being rescued from the Borg.) After his fight with Robert, JL says to Marie when she asks if he's leaving so soon, "The ship will be ready to leave orbit soon, and I belong on board. If I should ever doubt that again, I know where to come."

Funny how that worked out....

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm working through selected episodes of TNG to see if it helps make Picard a better watch....and I caught something in Family (the episode where Jean Luc returns to Chateau Picard after being rescued from the Borg.) After his fight with Robert, JL says to Marie when she asks if he's leaving so soon, "The ship will be ready to leave orbit soon, and I belong on board. If I should ever doubt that again, I know where to come."

Funny how that worked out....

Ooooh... clever!

[Andrew NDB]

I guess this means Barclay won't be showing up:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dwight_Schultz

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I guess this means Barclay won't be showing up:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dwight_Schultz

Wow, I had no idea. :tlol:

It's all right. I never liked Barclay as a character; I will be glad to not see him turn up in Star Trek: Picard.

Give me Wesley Crusher over Reginald Barclay any day.

[IMJ]

I guess this means Barclay won't be showing up:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dwight_Schultz

That would actually be an opportunity for showrunners - and even Stewart to prove their belief systems regarding fairness and equity are in place. But everytime someone is denied a Hollywood job because of their politics is more evidence against the left.

[Sumac]

That would actually be an opportunity for showrunners - and even Stewart to prove their belief systems regarding fairness and equity are in place.
Like followers of any faith they want equity and equality only for true believers of their own.
Everyone else? ****'em.

[Jester]

Wild caught bunny-corn sausage pizza.

Yummo.

[Andrew NDB]

This one left a sour taste in my mouth.

We couldn't just have a nice reunion episode? It had to be dead baby (and of course it's the white male that should be sacrificed) stories from Deanna, Soji shoving Picard around, Deanna even yelling at Picard in her defense? I also noticed that their children have hyphenated last names. Troi-Riker.

And Riker saying out of nowhere that he's still on "Active Reserve" status in Starfleet means he'll definitely be back by the end of the season.

And Deanna could read emotions in Data when his emotion chip was activated but not Soji?

[Roseangelo]

I loved this episode. I just wish it had been earlier in the season since I was overly anxious waiting for this episode, which ended up being a personal distraction.

[Andrew NDB]

I loved this episode. I just wish it had been earlier in the season since I was overly anxious waiting for this episode, which ended up being a personal distraction.

Apparently only two episodes beforehand they had no idea there would even be a Riker and Troi episode. They came up with it on the fly. According to the Wheaton after thing, the first one I've watched.

[newfan]

Finally caught up
Hugh gone already :( When he wasn't killed along with the other former borg I thought he would make it and go on to help free the rest of them.
I also thought the Captain had figured it was Agnes who had the tracker when they had that convo and was saying he thought it was Rafie just to get her to admit it, anyway looks like that isn't the case. Last the tracker is off-line for now

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This one left a sour taste in my mouth.

We couldn't just have a nice reunion episode? It had to be dead baby (and of course it's the white male that should be sacrificed) stories from Deanna, Soji shoving Picard around, Deanna even yelling at Picard in her defense? I also noticed that their children have hyphenated last names. Troi-Riker.

And Riker saying out of nowhere that he's still on "Active Reserve" status in Starfleet means he'll definitely be back by the end of the season.

And Deanna could read emotions in Data when his emotion chip was activated but not Soji?

I would've definitely appreciated forgoing the "dead kid" route on this episode. Sigh.

Still damn good having Riker and Troi back, though.

[IMJ]

I would've definitely appreciated forgoing the "dead kid" route on this episode. Sigh.

Still damn good having Riker and Troi back, though.

Yeah... I didn't hate it, but I'm not clear on what it added to the story beyond an excuse to bring them to a nice planet.

It just seems a bit "Hollywood cliche", didn't it? Like, in a writer's room meeting these guys are jerkin each other off their ideas as usual and someone is like "Riker and Troi are back, they are happy! But.... (holds forefinger up) they have.... tragedy! (-pauses-).... through a lost son.. BUT! (-pauses-) Their daughter is adorable!"

Other than that and.... well there was one more thing but..... other than those two things I thought it was a great episode. And I feel like Riker is going to come back as calvary in a starfleet uniform soon to. Given his words with Picard on the dock.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It just seems a bit "Hollywood cliche", didn't it? Like, in a writer's room meeting these guys are jerkin each other off their ideas as usual and someone is like "Riker and Troi are back, they are happy! But.... (holds forefinger up) they have.... tragedy! (-pauses-).... through a lost son.. BUT! (-pauses-) Their daughter is adorable!"

They did it to further drive home "the synth ban is bad!" We got it, guys. We all loved Data and nobody wants the synth ban. Didn't have to kill a Riker-Troi kid to remind us.

[CyberCubed]

I haven't watched any of this show yet, but from what I'm reading the show is basically falling into the same trap as modern Star Wars with its legacy characters? Everyone is basically, "damaged goods" so to speak?

I mean I guess it is realistic to real life. Heroes just get old and their reputation goes down. The legend is no match for reality. I think everyone gets annoyed when their childhood heroes aren't portrayed as the saviors they remember them being with rose tinted glasses.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I haven't watched any of this show yet, but from what I'm reading the show is basically falling into the same trap as modern Star Wars with its legacy characters? Everyone is basically, "damaged goods" so to speak?

I mean I guess it is realistic to real life. Heroes just get old and their reputation goes down. The legend is no match for reality. I think everyone gets annoyed when their childhood heroes aren't portrayed as the saviors they remember them being with rose tinted glasses.

I don't like the attitude of the show, but yes, that's pretty much legit. Rios is broken, Raffi is broken, Jurati very quickly became broken, Seven is broken, Riker and Troi were broken and are still a little cracked... and Picard is shattered and trying to put himself back together after 14 years of pouting.

If any hero didn't deserve being torn down or shown "deficit", it was Jean-Luc Picard.

The worst part is, the same basic story could have been told without the bull$hit.

It's like the opposite of Star Trek Discovery, where Michael Burnham is almost always morally superior (and lecturing everyone) and in the right, even when she mutinied.

[Andrew NDB]

They did it to further drive home "the synth ban is bad!" We got it, guys. We all loved Data and nobody wants the synth ban. Didn't have to kill a Riker-Troi kid to remind us.

Also it seemed like it was presented as a reason why Picard had to leave or not stay too long (not that he would have anyway). The whole business with, "Stay as long as you want, but... eh, we've already got one dead kid and don't want another dead kid, what with the danger you're probably bringing to our doorstep."

It's like the opposite of Star Trek Discovery, where Michael Burnham is almost always morally superior (and lecturing everyone) and in the right, even when she mutinied.

She's a woman of color. Doesn't matter if she mutinied and is solely responsible for starting a needless war.

[Andrew NDB]

Vaj_ypAbN_Q

[Jester]

Picard, shut the f@#$ up!

[Andrew NDB]

Picard, shut the f@#$ up!

I haven't seen the new one. Is he berated by a woman again?

[Jester]

The Sheer Fin' Hubris Admiral is back!

[Andrew NDB]

Jeeze, I dunno. This episode had like 6 sideplots all moving simultaneously intercut with each other, and they all only moved about an inch. The only interesting one was Seven on the Borg cube, and we barely even saw anything. And sure enough, another big helping of dressing down Picard. And man oh man, that was a boatload of exposition. I'd have much preferred like a brief flashback with Rios' story to the hologram interrogations and story time.

And eh, any former drone can just jack into a Queen room and become the Queen? Also some pretty shoddy 1996-level CGI work with her spinal jacks.

I'm pretty sure the Q are responsible for the moving of the suns around as the warning they mention, but I'm not super clear on how this is going to end up. Other than Seven's cube eventually shooting at something big.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I was just pleased to see that apparently my theory of where this season finale was going is all wrong.

I thought:

Romulans were going to turn out to be an entire race of self-loathing Vulcan synths, with only a very few Romulans--the Zat Vash or whatever--knowing this and determined to hide the truth at all costs.

Which is a terrible stupid idea, but that's what I thought the show was going to do.

Instead,

Too many synths hits a threshold and summons the Reapers or somebody. So the synths themselves are not necessarily the problem, but the big bad that comes looking for them.

I like this a lot more.

[Andrew NDB]

I like this a lot more.

It's true. I did end up liking the Dahj's Vag modus operandi more than I expected to. Though, of course the whole council of them has to be a circle of only women.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's true. I did end up liking the Dahj's Vag modus operandi more than I expected to. Though, of course the whole council of them has to be a circle of only women.

Was it just me, or did you also think the Zhat Vash conspiracy was that Romulans were a synthetic race?

This new conspiracy is far better.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/99N8YVR/89948388-2851861371559282-73381328728358912-o.jpg

Was it just me, or did you also think the Zhat Vash conspiracy was that Romulans were a synthetic race?

I wasn't going there in my head, though that flashback really confused me at first. I thought Oh and everyone gathered around the Dahj Vag circle was actually from thousands of years ago, with everybody "now" playing their respective ancestor. And lol... for a moment after they unraveled that story, I was going, "Oh good... so Starfleet's admiralty isn't REALLY corrupt, it's just Commodore Oh looking out for the interests of the Dajh Vag because of past events and prophecy." But as soon as I was thinking that, Picard literally is yelling, "It IS Starfleet's fault! They ALLOWED it to happen!!" Ugh.

I think it's something like... civilization(s) made synths 1000s of years ago and that went super bad (probably creating the Borg), so they reached out to the Q, who helped them out and set up a warning beacon system. It's interesting that at one point in the episode they refer to "The Destroyer" as "The Destroyers." Kind of like the Q can be referred to in the singular and plural. And they also gave the Destroyer a funny nickname that I've already forgotten.

[Jester]

Gotta love how we're 8 episodes in and we find out all the plot of the series in an exposition dump...

Also, how did Raffi not know she was talking to one of Rios many holograms on the bridge?

[Roseangelo]

Gotta love how we're 8 episodes in and we find out all the plot of the series in an exposition dump...

LOL, my karate instructor and I are both Trek buffs and today he asked me (he's an episode behind), "So, what exactly are they trying to do?" And I was like, "Ummm... well... ???"

[Andrew NDB]

They're trying to hide the well documented fact that CBS (or somebody) was unhappy with what was being shot halfway through the season and replaced Kurtzman with Chabon as showrunner. Now they're pretending he was the showrunner all along. And he couldn't even be bothered to stick around for season 2! Which is fine, given that we're now well past the halfway point for which his influence would be felt and... eh, it's not much better than the first half. If nothing else, I was banking on 1 nice, feel good Riker and Troi episode and we saw how that went.

[Andrew NDB]

So... what do you think about Soongh's human son?

Also from the preview of the season finale, it looks exactly like the season finale of STD season 2... hundreds of little starfighters shooting at each other in a big space battle.

[Jester]

I just love that Gerati's murder of Maddox is just shrugged off....

[IMJ]

I just love that Gerati's murder of Maddox is just shrugged off....

Liberal Hollywood = Liberal Star Trek = Liberal philosophies. Think about those pushes for incarceration and prison reform.
"You murdered a helpless man while he was laying on a hospital bed... you'll have to work hard to atone for that."

[newfan]

That was a quick change of mind for Soji
One synth killed and suddenly she's all about wiping out organic life, even if it is to save her own kind.

Interested to see how it all ends for the season next week, wondering who will and won't make it.

For some reason I felt like watching first contact after I watched this so doing that now.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So... what do you think about Soongh's human son?

Also from the preview of the season finale, it looks exactly like the season finale of STD season 2... hundreds of little starfighters shooting at each other in a big space battle.

Worst episode of Picard. That sucked. That really sucked.

Buncha fvcking android hippies in a commune? Most advanced beings in the galaxy just walking around in silks looking fine and fly? (Actually, looking like rejects from "I, Mudd")

A Borg cube crashing, supposed to be a big fvcking deal, and then... eh. Everyone's fine. Let's leave them here.

Why are all the androids so fvcking naive and stupid? Also, why does shoving a piece of jewelry into a synthetic eye do anything more than cosmetic damage?

Why has no one said the words "Irrumodic Syndrome" yet?

Why would a synth-obsessed scientist actually produce a biological kid? (Brent Spiner was awesome though.)

Terrible fvcking episode. It was as bad as Discovery. Worse, it turned me into Andrew. :tlol:

[IMJ]

That was a quick change of mind for Soji
One synth killed and suddenly she's all about wiping out organic life, even if it is to save her own kind.

Interested to see how it all ends for the season next week, wondering who will and won't make it.

For some reason I felt like watching first contact after I watched this so doing that now.

I was sort of left with the impression that the "mental transfer" was a sort of virus that would corrupt the synthetic life it came into contact with, making it more pliable to the suggestion that it should exterminate organics.

[Jester]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d725a98748dce84458ff7b7197a1714a/tenor.gif?itemid=10544102

Also....synths can just "learn" mind melding?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Also....synths can just "learn" mind melding?

Oh, I forgot about THAT. That's stupid. You have to have telepathic abilities for that, it's not just like learning Klingon martial arts or how to cook Sisko's famous food.

More idiocy.

[Andrew NDB]

Worst episode of Picard. That sucked. That really sucked.

By far the worst. Appallingly bad. Between this and the preview for the finale I don't see any hope for it.

A Borg cube crashing, supposed to be a big fvcking deal, and then... eh.

They've spent the whole season teasing the cube and the mystery there, like something big is going to happen and we're gonna get Borg stuff (like it or not). Turns out... joke's on us! Nothing was the plan.

Because there wasn't a plan. They're just making this up as they go, just like the last season of Discuckery.

Why has no one said the words "Irrumodic Syndrome" yet?

I was waiting for it this episode. Maybe because 99% of the people on the show have only watched the movies?

Oh, I forgot about THAT. That's stupid. You have to have telepathic abilities for that, it's not just like learning Klingon martial arts or how to cook Sisko's famous food.

And with Enterprise fresh in my mind, the mind meld rape episode. They say that only some Vulcans are born with the ability to mind-meld... it's a genetic thing.

[Jester]

Maybe they would have to pay royalties to the creator of iromatic syndrome and they don't feel like paying the money.

[newfan]

Yeah I thought the same thing with the mind melding, obviously an easy way for them to get the message to the synths but no, they needed to do it another way.

The Borg cube was an easy defeat, I didn't know where the story would go there but didn't really expect this, see what they do with that and Seven I guess.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

CBS needs to scrape together a ton of money and bring back Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr.

I think this was the nail in the coffin for me. I'll keep watching, but I'm done hoping for anything good from Kurtzman and Chabon.

[Andrew NDB]

CBS needs to scrape together a ton of money and bring back Ronald D. Moore and Ira Steven Behr.

That would be wonderful.

Also, how sad is it that of all the crazy theories about how Data or Lore would come back in this or that way... they do none of that and go about the dumbest possible route imagineable. In fact, it's not even imagineable. "What if Soongh had a biological son!" wouldn't even enter into the brain of a Trek fan.

GyGGW3tqNPY

[IMJ]

That would be wonderful.

Also, how sad is it that of all the crazy theories about how Data or Lore would come back in this or that way... they do none of that and go about the dumbest possible route imagineable. In fact, it's not even imagineable. "What if Soongh had a biological son!" wouldn't even enter into the brain of a Trek fan.

GyGGW3tqNPY

I'm holding out hope that the synth body Soong-lite was working on will somehow house Data for his return, but given we have one episode left in the season, probably not.

[Galactus]

And with Enterprise fresh in my mind, the mind meld rape episode. They say that only some Vulcans are born with the ability to mind-meld... it's a genetic thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the inference in the early Enterprise episodes which dealt with mind melds is that all Vulans could so it but in the time the show is set it had been repressed like their emotions and seen as wrong by everyone save a a few dissenters. The second episode that deals with it (I forget the title) kinda uses it as an AIDS allegory.

The Season 4 three parter shows that all Vulcans can do it. By the time of Kirk it's a norm among them.

Still it's somewhat suspect that other species can learn how to do it let along synthetic lifeforms.

[Andrew NDB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the inference in the early Enterprise episodes which dealt with mind melds is that all Vulans could so it but in the time the show is set it had been repressed like their emotions and seen as wrong by everyone save a a few dissenters. The second episode that deals with it (I forget the title) kinda uses it as an AIDS allegory.

The Season 4 three parter shows that all Vulcans can do it. By the time of Kirk it's a norm among them.

Still it's somewhat suspect that other species can learn how to do it let along synthetic lifeforms.

No, the mind meld rape episode, the Vulcans say that only some Vulcans are born with that ability. Maybe after a certain point, only Vulcans that can mind meld are sought to go into the service.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

No, the mind meld rape episode, the Vulcans say that only some Vulcans are born with that ability. Maybe after a certain point, only Vulcans that can mind meld are sought to go into the service.

But could it have been misinformation or simply incorrect assumptions? Pretty easy to retcon it as such.

[Andrew NDB]

But could it have been misinformation or simply incorrect assumptions? Pretty easy to retcon it as such.

True. In my head I took it as, misinformation so that if any Vulcan realized they had the ability (as in, all of them) to mind meld, they would be ashamed and never admit to it.

[Jester]

Wait...wha!?

jvdqCqiAe0s

[IMJ]

I hate to say it but that would be so much better than a secret son of Soong.

[Andrew NDB]

Shesus. I guess that'd redeem things a smidge. Though it'd introduce a huge thing they'd have to take time and explain in the final episode that has to do... a lot. That you know the majority of will be spent on a space battle.

[Vegita-San]

So, I'm watching this series with all the downtime.

It's super frustrating. It could be a great continutation. except for some minor things.

- All the swearing. Totally un needed. humanity had evolved past that. If that makes your humans too boring, that's your problem as a writer.

- Admirals being jerks. pretty much par for the course for being an admiral in starfleet.

- the synths as workers. This is totally going against what they where working for and towards in the original series. and continued with voyager and the Doctor with his trial. How does a society fall that fast in only 20 years?

- The Romulan undercover plot. OK. I'm willing to run with it. but, how do they have the resources to suddenly start doing this with their entire homeworld gone?

- the androids going evil. to me, it seems like this super secret romulan society infiltrated their minds, and used them to destroy themselves...and further stop star fleet from developing future androids with one big disaster on their hands.

-subtle racism toward androids. also didn't feel right.

- an android that looks human. that's all they had to say. and what I think they where trying to imply with dahj. none of this super secret nonsensical science stuff. the problem with non sci fi writers and non fans trying to write star trek. they over complicate things.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I hate to say it but that would be so much better than a secret son of Soong.

Yeah, but CBS All Access Star Trek has a real boner for secret family members that you never knew existed. Though to be fair, it is kind of par for the course for both Spock and Data already.... we never knew about Lore, or Juliana Tainer, or B4, until we did. And we never knew about Sarek, or Sybok, until we did.

But it still galls me.

And anyway, the showrunners of Star Trek Picard have already avoided referencing a VERY important android in Data's life... Lal. Not a single mention of her.

Trust me, new Soong is exactly what he appears. He ain't Lore. There's no way the showrunners mention a character they've studiously ignored up until the very last episode.

[IMJ]

Yeah, but CBS All Access Star Trek has a real boner for secret family members that you never knew existed. Though to be fair, it is kind of par for the course for both Spock and Data already.... we never knew about Lore, or Juliana Tainer, or B4, until we did. And we never knew about Sarek, or Sybok, until we did.

But it still galls me.

And anyway, the showrunners of Star Trek Picard have already avoided referencing a VERY important android in Data's life... Lal. Not a single mention of her.

Trust me, new Soong is exactly what he appears. He ain't Lore. There's no way the showrunners mention a character they've studiously ignored up until the very last episode.

I don't think so either. But the problem is that there are so many ways that could've made this whole thing better. Any of the "lovey" dialog with Raffey and Picard should be for Picard and some of the Next Gen crew. Data could be brought back organically, or be put in Soong's new body that appeared this episode. I don't know, I could go on.

I don't know how it's going to wrap up, but I get the feeling that this show might never fill or complete the emotional gap that was left by Nemesis, and that's what I was really hoping for.

[Andrew NDB]

Elnor actor wants to explore his sexuality in season 2:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/03/24/star-treks-evan-evagora-wants-explore-elnors-sexuality-season-2-12446863/amp/

[Jester]

https://media.giphy.com/media/9wQgSJmBhgaRi/giphy.gif

[Jester]

Leave it to Jonathan Frakes and Will Riker to bring the best moments to this series in the last freaking episode. Lots I winced at, but seeing Captain Riker in action even for a few minutes was the best thing this series has done.

[Roseangelo]

Leave it to Jonathan Frakes and Will Riker to bring the best moments to this series in the last freaking episode. Lots I winced at, but seeing Captain Riker in action even for a few minutes was the best thing this series has done.

Yesssssss.

[Andrew NDB]

It wasn't enough. What a horrific episode.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

What they did with Picard infuriates me.

So many loose ends just ignored at the end of the episode:

What happens to Narek?
Is Seven okay leaving the XBs? What's going to happen to them now? And what about the cube?
How did Starfleet get that many ships? How did the ROMULANS get that many ships?
Happy little purple vibrator of magic was stupid.

Also... that's it? Two big fleets standoff, blink, and go home?

Oh, AND WHAT ABOUT THE REAPERS!? 3 seconds of Reapers is not enough Reapers.

The only parts I enjoyed were Captain Riker and the final conversation between Picard and Data (just not anything that comes after).

[IMJ]

So I waited twenty years for a resolution for the awful ending to Nemesis only to basically watch Data die again for essentially no reason at all.

As someone said above, Riker in the captain's chair was the only gratifying element to the show, which was also too cheap to have a real Starfleet instead of copy and paste starships.

[Jester]

I was wondering if they were all the same.

So, who thinks this could be edited down to feature length?

[newfan]

The end result for Picard was starting to look obvious.
As opposed someone finding an advanced treatment for his condition

I was wrong in assuming that eventually the synth ban would lift and data would be brought back eventually in a new body, that's a shame. At least appeared.

Agreed, it was good to see Riker back too.

[Andrew NDB]

Yep, Picard finally unshackled his white privilege and is now one of the downtrodden, the shunned (synths). "Me too!" he says. Of course he does.

Yeah, the whole Borg sideplot... it went nowhere. The payoff was nothing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yep, Picard finally unshackled his white privilege and is now one of the downtrodden, the shunned (synths). "Me too!" he says. Of course he does.

Yeah, the whole Borg sideplot... it went nowhere. The payoff was nothing.

Same for the Romulan subplot that kicked off the whole damn thing. Went nowhere.

[Jester]

Heck, was the synth ban lifted off screen? Chalk up another plot thread just wrapped up neatly.

[Andrew NDB]

Heck, was the synth ban lifted off screen? Chalk up another plot thread just wrapped up neatly.

Oh yeah, good point.

What a stupid, stupid show. The whole thing, just to re-kill Data. It just blows my mind. Why even bring him "back" at all, then? Even killing off B4 off-screen? There is about a million different directions they could have gone with characters they intended to actually keep around vs. this. At least if Lore stepped out from behind the current as the Soongh character, but manipulating everything would have made it feel partially worthwhile.

And their crew of like 5. Two of them are now bisexual and they're about to make the elf gay, and now Picard's a robot. What would Q even say to robot Picard? I don't even care anymore.

[Jester]

I swear I thought "evil Soji" would be revealed to be creative from one of Lore's positrons and Dr. Soong would be him in a flesh suit...I mean they transferred JL.

[Andrew NDB]

Showrunner admits he wanted the show to piss off and provoke people, and target the "anti-SJW" crowd.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/27/star-trek-picard-showrunner-michael-chabon-admits-he-wanted-to-piss-off-or-provoke-people/

[Vegita-San]

any links? That needs to be exposed as it's not star trek at it's core.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh yeah, good point.

What a stupid, stupid show. The whole thing, just to re-kill Data. It just blows my mind. Why even bring him "back" at all, then? Even killing off B4 off-screen? There is about a million different directions they could have gone with characters they intended to actually keep around vs. this. At least if Lore stepped out from behind the current as the Soongh character, but manipulating everything would have made it feel partially worthwhile.

And their crew of like 5. Two of them are now bisexual and they're about to make the elf gay, and now Picard's a robot. What would Q even say to robot Picard? I don't even care anymore.

I'll give the show killing Data again, because I suspect Brent Spiner refused to come back full-time as Data, and this was some sort of common ground Spiner reached with the showrunners.

But they also killed Hugh AND Icheb, so I dunno.

[Andrew NDB]

any links? That needs to be exposed as it's not star trek at it's core.

Sorry, just added.

[Vegita-San]

np.

managed to find it.

Hollywood is in such a bubble.. I wonder if this crisis will wake them up and snap them out of their little tiny world?

but somehow I doubt it.

[Sumac]

Showrunner admits he wanted the show to piss off and provoke people, and target the "anti-SJW" crowd.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/27/star-trek-picard-showrunner-michael-chabon-admits-he-wanted-to-piss-off-or-provoke-people/
People who write stuff just to intentionally piss of some group of people are retards and not worthy of being called "authors" or "creators", since they mire those authors who are capable of creating smart and thought provoking stories without resorting to cheap shots. Call yourself a "propagandist" if you want, but not an author.

Of course, it is possible that in this case, such statement was a saving throw, to help showrunners to keep at least some of their reputation with "blue checkmarks". Not that normal people would be interested in their excuse anyway.

It's like those "evil white men didn't show to see our super mega progressive movie!!" statements, even when it is obvious that not only "evil white men", but just about everyone didn't show up.
Post-factum posturing and virtue signaling.

[Andrew NDB]

Michael Chabon afraid he didn't make it "obviously gay enough":

https://www.queerty.com/michael-chabon-afraid-didnt-make-star-trek-picard-obviously-gay-enough-really-20200328?fbclid=IwAR2eQQuX64KsDHLbBJVq7TjUQEq7Ti3l _Br_1BBkZRq6ATciVRCffUKeidI

[Sumac]

Michael Chabon afraid he didn't make it "obviously gay enough":

https://www.queerty.com/michael-chabon-afraid-didnt-make-star-trek-picard-obviously-gay-enough-really-20200328?fbclid=IwAR2eQQuX64KsDHLbBJVq7TjUQEq7Ti3l _Br_1BBkZRq6ATciVRCffUKeidI
Well, at least he made himself look like an "obviously fool enough", with this statement.

[IMJ]

I was wondering if they were all the same.

So, who thinks this could be edited down to feature length?

They could start by cutting every single Raffey scene....

Same for the Romulan subplot that kicked off the whole damn thing. Went nowhere.

No, that went somewhere. It was another woman-boosting ego trip of nonsense because it developed into an all female (for no reason) sect of Romulans fighting against the "advanced robotic intelligence".

But notice, in most cases, a woman kills a man, or a woman kills a woman when there are kills on the show.

[Andrew NDB]

They could start by cutting every single Raffey scene....



No, that went somewhere. It was another woman-boosting ego trip of nonsense because it developed into an all female (for no reason) sect of Romulans fighting against the "advanced robotic intelligence".

But notice, in most cases, a woman kills a man, or a woman kills a woman when there are kills on the show.

That's true. And notice there were not one but two super secret Romulan organizations (the Dagh Vaj and the nunnery)... both comprised of all females, except for one male outlier in each case?

[Andrew NDB]

LOL... Red Letter Media is doing a Mr. Plinkett review of Picard. I've been waiting for their Re:View of the final two episodes but I'd gladly take this instead.

Ao99bNrJ_1Q

[neatoman]

I haven't watched this show, is it really true that it's little more than Picard getting belittled?

[Andrew NDB]

I haven't watched this show, is it really true that it's little more than Picard getting belittled?

Basically. Every week it's like, "Which female gets to scream at him now, or physically shove him?" It's him giving up his "white privilege" little by little until he dies and becomes a robot. And explosions. And people shouting at each other. And Seven of Nine becoming gay. And after a whole season we have no idea the state of current affairs in the galaxy, or even if there's an Enterprise out there. They don't care about that stuff.

[neatoman]

Oh, well I don't really want to watch a show that's about an old man getting verbally abused, not sure why anyone would. Do the writers hate the character or something?

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, well I don't really want to watch a show that's about an old man getting verbally abused, not sure why anyone would. Do the writers hate the character or something?

Apparently even Stewart himself. They gave him some measure of creative say-so.

[neatoman]

Did he confuse Picard for Bullock? Don't see why Picard deserves to be told off.
_IkFB6OuCXE

[Leo656]

:lol: Patrick Stewart IS Bullock to me at this point, not Picard. I choose to imagine that in real life Stewart simply goes around inhaling cocaine and shouting random non sequiturs at people all day long. :lol:

This sounds rather depressing and sad by comparison.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeesh. And I mean yeesh.

VmvRvFqqTCw

[Andrew NDB]

Eh, I don't like this guy's "tone" but he's not wrong on any point.

Pms8CesdpAc

[Andrew NDB]

Frakes is happy STP didn't have Riker still on the Titan.

https://trekmovie.com/2020/05/01/jonathan-frakes-is-happy-star-trek-picard-didnt-have-riker-still-on-the-uss-titan/?fbclid=IwAR0pnHE10VQ6Vuj4Wy9-bC5aBI1jvDYiwwWzgyvzDm3uLNtXKSsZ7oWAlUs

But why, though? That's a thing we never even got to see... at all.

[Andrew NDB]

Worth a watch. It's true.

mZsbm7TDvUQ

[Andrew NDB]

They admit they wanted to humble Picard and take away his privilege:

https://www.startrek.com/news/the-humbling-of-admiral-picard

[Leo656]

He already seemed pretty down-to-Earth to me, but what do I know? :lol: Casual at best, over here. But reading stuff like that makes me kinda sick.

I seen a few minutes of an episode while I was cooking a few weeks ago. No context whatsoever but the little bit I saw did not make me want to see more. I wish they'd "just" wanted to do a show about Picard and the old gang, not about taking him down several pegs.

But again... casual at best, so I'unno.

[Vegita-San]

I guess being ravaged by the Borg inside out didn't do it enough?

smh.

[Leo656]

Ohhhhh yeah. That was pretty horrific. They got a whole movie out of his PTSD from it and everything.

I don't like the current trend among marginalized groups to try and create a Misery Contest. "Your suffering can't possibly be equitable to mine, due to your age/race/sex/gender/misc." Like the struggles of people who don't fit any of those labels are somehow "Lesser Than" by default. And that's not very nice.

[Andrew NDB]

Which is stupid. Even in First Contact. He saw the Borg a bunch of times after the 40 minutes he was Locutus on TNG without shriveling up into PTSD fits. The Picard writers clearly only watched the TNG movies and maybe a Wiki on TNG, if that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

They admit they wanted to humble Picard and take away his privilege:

https://www.startrek.com/news/the-humbling-of-admiral-picard

He already seemed pretty down-to-Earth to me, but what do I know? :lol: Casual at best, over here. But reading stuff like that makes me kinda sick.

I seen a few minutes of an episode while I was cooking a few weeks ago. No context whatsoever but the little bit I saw did not make me want to see more. I wish they'd "just" wanted to do a show about Picard and the old gang, not about taking him down several pegs.

But again... casual at best, so I'unno.

It's really unspeakable what they did to Picard's character.

He was tortured by the Cardassians, abused and mutilated by the Borg, lost close friends in the line of duty, and the showrunners thought "eh, this guy's had it easy?"

For fvck's sake.

[Leo656]

Hmmm... Transformers, Ghostbusters, TMNT, Star Wars, Picard/Trek...

Kinda seeing a long-running pattern in the last 15 years or so, of people who either didn't watch or didn't "get" the original property, relaunching it for modern times and completely screwing it up because they have to inject their own personal politics into it, rather than honor the original spirit of the material.

And they all make money, too, which means it won't change. What a shame.

[Sumac]

It's really unspeakable what they did to Picard's character.

He was tortured by the Cardassians, abused and mutilated by the Borg, lost close friends in the line of duty, and the showrunners thought "eh, this guy's had it easy?"

For fvck's sake.
Well, he is an old white male, which makes him equivalent of GOD and Hitler at the same time, which means he is all-powerful privileged son of a bitch who is responsible for all problems in the world, from deserts in Sahara to genocide of people somewhere in Indonesia to your fridge breaking at 3 of morning. Or whatever equivalent of all of those things in Star Trek universe.

So, naturally writers decided to take arrogant bastard to the task, to show all those pesky arrogant all-powerful white people how to be a proper obedient white person.
:x:P:x

[Andrew NDB]

This came out a few days ago. HYSTERICAL and dead-on.

TwF1iri1GjQ

[Spike Spiegel]

I binged all of TNG and the movies before watching Picard.

I'm not really disappointed or even mad, per se, even though I have no interest in seeing any more of this or Discovery. I just don't understand how this got made, other than as a means of selling CBS All Access.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I binged all of TNG and the movies before watching Picard.

I'm not really disappointed or even mad, per se, even though I have no interest in seeing any more of this or Discovery. I just don't understand how this got made, other than as a means of selling CBS All Access.

I don't understand why THIS version of Picard got made, and why everyone went along with it.

It's like making a Barack Obama movie, and pitching the guy as a failure. And yes, that probably offends some people, but I take Jean-Luc Picard's reputation as a leader fvcking SERIOUSLY. :tlol:

[Leo656]

He'll never be Kirk. Kirk went places with his dick that I wouldn't go with a phaser, pally. :trazz:

But yeah, for example if they did a TV show where they brought Kirk back after three decades, I'd want something a bit more uplifting and triumphant than subversive and so forth. There's always a time and a place for deconstruction but I think the wisdom is in knowing when the proper time and place actually is.

[IMJ]

I don't understand why THIS version of Picard got made, and why everyone went along with it.

It's like making a Barack Obama movie, and pitching the guy as a failure. And yes, that probably offends some people, but I take Jean-Luc Picard's reputation as a leader fvcking SERIOUSLY. :tlol:


Because it unfolded during the height of leftist mania in the country and probably had a room filled with creators scared to shut down the mentality. So everyone smiled and said "it's great! It's great great great!" as a function of group think, and thus Picard season 1 was born in all of it's ******** glory.

[DarkFell]

I actually got to hear the reviews for S.T.P and well honestly, it sounds like they castrated a damn fine former Captain. Let that sink in, my fellow fans.

There's always a time and a place for deconstruction but I think the wisdom is in knowing when the proper time and place actually is.
Destroying the things that a fanbase once held in high regard, seems to be a current 'hobby' that a few film directors enjoy doing when all they need to do is create their own ideas. That way, we can judge their merit and worth accordingly.

[Leo656]

Yeah but "new ideas" don't get huge budgets and familiar/renowned casts, and if you don't have both of those things then your project is never likely to get made. There's the rub, unfortunately.

[Spike Spiegel]

Yeah but "new ideas" don't get huge budgets and familiar/renowned casts, and if you don't have both of those things then your project is never likely to get made. There's the rub, unfortunately.

The trick is to get people to stop falling for it. I understand the "anti-SJW" stance on this, but to be honest, following all these old IPs with such diminishing returns feels like a chore in 2020. How many times to we have to watch the zombified remains of all these old franchises shamble back in forth in front of our eyes?

At what point does the general audience just get tired of it?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I actually got to hear the reviews for S.T.P and well honestly, it sounds like they castrated a damn fine former Captain. Let that sink in, my fellow fans.

You're not really wrong. They did to Picard what Rian Johnson did to Luke Skywalker.

I enjoyed parts of the show, but damn, it was brutal overall.

[IMJ]

The trick is to get people to stop falling for it. I understand the "anti-SJW" stance on this, but to be honest, following all these old IPs with such diminishing returns feels like a chore in 2020. How many times to we have to watch the zombified remains of all these old franchises shamble back in forth in front of our eyes?

At what point does the general audience just get tired of it?

I think you're right, except in the instance of Picard, you have fans who were crippled with disappointment over Nemesis and have waited for almost 20 years for a resolution. This as opposed to simply having "another modern Trek" show or film.

[neatoman]

I just finished this... It's... Not as cringeworthy as I imagined, it's only episode 5 that makes me want to kill myself.

Much like STD, the primary problem here is that it just ignores what the previous shows were or tried to convey. And much like STD it also fails in trying to make any of the characters compelling enough to care about them as much as it wants us to.

It's bad, dreary and just kind of lame. The reason I'm not as annoyed with it as I am STD, is that at least this thing has a much more reasonable story to tell. The whole "androids will destroy the universe" prophecy/conspiracy coupled with the murder mystery isn't that interesting, but at the very least it's not a giant retcon of nonsense that had no chance of working based on how convuluted and contradictory it is.

If they had called this "Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep? Part 2: Attack of the Paranoid Space Elves" it would have been a little less annoying than stitching the Star Trek name and one of it's most popular characters onto it.

[DarkFell]

It took a few seconds on my end not to read ST-D as an STD. Whoops. That's what I get for being tired.

I caught an episode of Discovery while dining with the family at a Mama Margie's some years ago. Despite the noise, the football game on the other flat screen TV was more appealing. I guess visually, it felt less like Star Trek and more like another series.

[Andrew NDB]

I think you're right, except in the instance of Picard, you have fans who were crippled with disappointment over Nemesis and have waited for almost 20 years for a resolution. This as opposed to simply having "another modern Trek" show or film.

For me it was less waiting for a resolution as much as it was just wanting new Trek. As in, pushing the timeline forward... not revisiting old-ass TOS stuff with a bunch of retcons.

[Andrew NDB]

So now the old Zimmerman thing might not be true?

https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/the-orville-comic-books-dark-horse/

OK. Reconciled with Levar's comments... they did an about shift. They had some loose plan for season 2 and now they're stretching. They're stretching. And all of the TNG people are back.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So it's basically a reunion/continuation show now? I could possibly get behind that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So now the old Zimmerman thing might not be true?

https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/the-orville-comic-books-dark-horse/

OK. Reconciled with Levar's comments... they did an about shift. They had some loose plan for season 2 and now they're stretching. They're stretching. And all of the TNG people are back.

Wrong link. Are you saying no Robert Picardo?

I look forward to seeing Worf and Geordi again, so there's that, at least. Sigh.

[CyberCubed]

Are you guys sure you want to even see everyone again? Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone. Because you know the usual character assassination or bad writing can poison a character from their last appearance.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Are you guys sure you want to even see everyone again? Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone. Because you know the usual character assassination or bad writing can poison a character from their last appearance.

The first season didn't completely piss me off. I liked parts of it, and am sorta curious to know if Worf is captain of the Enterprise or not.

[IMJ]

The first season didn't completely piss me off. I liked parts of it, and am sorta curious to know if Worf is captain of the Enterprise or not.

Which would be strange now that Starfleet was shown to have an entire fleet of nothing but the same ship - whatever class Riker was commanding along with his copy and paste CGi armada.

So many problems with Picard season 1. So many.
-Picard unnecessarily torn apart by every woman on the show

-"White privilege" assigned to a guy that earned his entire career

-Bring Data back simply to kill him off again immediately (those words fail to explain how dumb this was)

-Picard is dead and now there's basically a synth version of him walking around. There's no argument for memory transfer - it's not the real Picard under any circumstances. As soon as you cut the continuity of though in the same vessel, that person is dead. Memory/mind transfer is film is a trope but if you transferred your memories into a new body as life extension, you'd still be dead. Dead. And whatever was walking around acting like you is a simulacrum. This isn't about religion either, it's about psychology. For anyone who disagrees and educated only through pop culture narratives, then I'd point to the scene in The Sixth Day that illustrates this perfectly.

-An entire fleet of ships but a fleet sized armada of the exact same class of vessel and nothing else

I could go on, but ugh.

[Galactus]

^^^

We've seen transferred consciousness in Star Trek before. I don't see why this would be different.

By your logic every character who has ever used the transporter is dead. It's the old argument that by taking you apart molecule by molecule is essentially killing you and making a perfect copy in your place but no Trek fan ever takes that argument serious.

As for Picard the show it was okay. I don't mind the idea of Picard being a fallen idol after all that is a set up is a great one to see a now humbled lead character rising up from the ash heap and prove himself to the people he'd failed. That being said I never got what he did that made most of the characters he recruited to his crew resent him' it was not having the clout to persuade Starfleet to save more Romulans after the Synths blew up the ship yards. That was hardly his fault. Also the lessons he learned were things that given how Picard was always characterised (even during the show) is stuff he already knew.

The show wasn't a masterpiece by any stretch but it was perfectly watchable and the fan services moments worked well. I tend to think the show should establish it's own identity before going full on making it a TNG reunion.

[Andrew NDB]

The show wasn't a masterpiece by any stretch but it was perfectly watchable and the fan services moments worked well.

What fan service moments? The only character even happy to see Picard on the whole show was Hugh, and then they killed him off. The Riker and Troi reunion, which got immediately saddled with dead baby melodrama and Troi yelling at Picard? Maybe "Acting Captain Riker" joining the non-battle and leaving right away, you think?

There was an episode of TOS all about a guy transferring people's minds into synthetic bodies. It underscored the idea that even in doing that, it isn't the same person.

[Galactus]

Specifically thinking of Ira Graves from the Schizoid Man who is the best example as he placed his consciousness into Data and there was certainly no question of whether it was actually Graves consciousness.

And yes those are the fan service moments I was thinking of. I'm sure we'll get more of that in season 2 although from a creative stand point I'm not sure they will want to make this a TNG reunion show and while I love him I doubt Sir Pat Stew would ever allow the show to become that.

[Andrew NDB]

Picard season 1 is proof positive why Stewart should be barred from the writers room. He has no business in there.

[Galactus]

The ideas in Picard are sound and very in keeping with the franchises history of using science fiction to comment in contemporary political and social issues and always falling down on progressive side. Even the idea that Starfleet and the Federation have degenerated into a less moral organisation is basically seeded in TNG and particularly DS9. Despite it's more high brow veneer it just wasn't put together in a good way. I suspect that anyone who is mad at the franchise being all SJW will still hate it (despite that being what Star Trek is all about) but take the same ideas and present them better and it will be a true spiritual sequel to TNG.

[Andrew NDB]

Specifically thinking of Ira Graves from the Schizoid Man who is the best example as he placed his consciousness into Data and there was certainly no question of whether it was actually Graves consciousness.

Huh, did they mention him? Though for any little "easter eggs" there may or may not have been, it's more troublesome the stuff they left out. Not even so much as mentioning Data's actual daughter by name in a season supposedly all about Data's daughters (an angle they completely abandoned by the end, btw)... suspiciously not mentioning "irumodic mind syndrome" by name, etc..

And yes those are the fan service moments I was thinking of. I'm sure we'll get more of that in season 2 although from a creative stand point I'm not sure they will want to make this a TNG reunion show and while I love him I doubt Sir Pat Stew would ever allow the show to become that.

We already "know" they're doing that. Gates McFadden is going around right now saying she's probably in it but no contracts are final yet... Levar Burton is going around saying he thinks that "everyone is in it" this season. And I doubt they'd bother if it was just cameo stuff.

The ideas in Picard are sound and very in keeping with the franchises history of using science fiction to comment in contemporary political and social issues and always falling down on progressive side.

But never as heavy handed as... this and STD. This is very woke, very angry stuff playing for the SJW vote over actually having any quality or even coherent writing.

Even the idea that Starfleet and the Federation have degenerated into a less moral organisation is basically seeded in TNG and particularly DS9.

Not really. And they always bounced back. Hopefully season 2 and onward we just pretend that was a "rough patch" and now back to business as usual... but probably not since Stewart and Cuckzman are still angry about Trump/Brexit/etc.. Probably angrier now.

Despite it's more high brow veneer it just wasn't put together in a good way. I suspect that anyone who is mad at the franchise being all SJW will still hate it (despite that being what Star Trek is all about) but take the same ideas and present them better and it will be a true spiritual sequel to TNG.

I don't think Star Trek has always been "all about" "being all SJW," remotely. Sure there is one off stuff here and there that is... fairly obvious in its intent and maybe even agenda (like Riker falling in love with the gender-free being), but they're easily forgivable in the grand scheme because for every one of those there's tons of episodes like "Datalore," "Disaster," "Inner Light," "Darmok" and, I don't know, "Time's Arrow" that are just fun, sometimes dark morality lessons. No agenda. No social "justice" to speak of. Star Trek has always been a show for everyone, not just people on "the right side of history."

They kept saying "Picard is not a TNG sequel! Don't expect it to be!" and I was always fine with that. Apparently if I don't like STP then "Ah-hah! That was your mistake right there! You never should have expected it to be like TNG!" but that's never what I say. They just actually have to tell a coherent story this time. With less/no shoving around of Picard, please.

[CyberCubed]

Patrick Stewarts birthday is today and he just turned 80. Man, it's scary knowing how old he is. Hopefully he can still act for a few more years yet.

[IMJ]

Patrick Stewarts birthday is today and he just turned 80. Man, it's scary knowing how old he is. Hopefully he can still act for a few more years yet.

I would have had more faith back when T.V. series were actually "seasons". But nowadays a "season" pops up once every year or two. And given everything that's going on, let's face it - by the time a season 3 was being prepped and filmed Stewart will likely be 82. He might even be crankin' 83 by the time season 3 airs on T.V.

[Galactus]

Huh, did they mention him? Though for any little "easter eggs" there may or may not have been, it's more troublesome the stuff they left out. Not even so much as mentioning Data's actual daughter by name in a season supposedly all about Data's daughters (an angle they completely abandoned by the end, btw)... suspiciously not mentioning "irumodic mind syndrome" by name, etc..

No they didn't but that wasn't my point. I was pointing out that there is precedent for swapping consciousness in Star Trek even with androids.

You're right though Lal and Piacard's Iromodic Syndrome should have been given a mention definitely.

We already "know" they're doing that. Gates McFadden is going around right now saying she's probably in it but no contracts are final yet... Levar Burton is going around saying he think that "everyone is in it" this season. And I doubt they'd bother if it was just cameo stuff.

More than cameos definitely but I doubt they'll play that big a role. While the nostalgic part of me wants a full blown reunion series I don't think it would ever live up to mine or many other peoples expectations.

But never as heavy handed as... this and STD. This is very woke, very angry stuff playing for the SJW vote over actually having any quality or even coherent writing.

I don't know about that. I thought it was always blatantly obvious what they were doing and what side of an issue they wanted viewers to take.

I agree on coherent writing though. I tend to think that the writers are not quite accustomed to serialised storytelling and are still writing for episodic TV. If this was TNG then all the plot points would be dealt with separately. We'd a Romulan refugee episode followed an Androids civil rights episode followed by ex Borg episode and so on and that would work well. Mushing them all together is necessary for a streaming show which is meant to be watched all in one sitting but since this was coming out weekly I'm not sure the writers really knew how to do that.

Not really. And they always bounced back. Hopefully season 2 and onward we just pretend that was a "rough patch" and now back to business as usual... but probably not since Stewart and Cuckzman are still angry about Trump/Brexit/etc.. Probably angrier now.

How did the Federation bounce back from its corruption. From the odd corrupt Admirals in TNG to the ones in DS9 that ended up collaborating with Section 31 the decay in the Federation went unchecked and seemed to grow. Likewise treating artificial life forms like second class citizens was a thing by the end of Voyager.

I actually hope we get more of this in Season 2. I thought it was a bit of a cop out that the ban of Synths was reversed in such a tacked on manner. Creatively there should be some effort to reform Starfleet/the Federation rather than have it all fixed off screen. I doubt you'll agree with this sentiment but since this was heavily influenced by Trump and Brexit and since the effects of those things have reached fever pitch right I'd expect it to influence the show.

I don't think Star Trek has always been "all about" "being all SJW," remotely. Sure there is one off stuff here and there that is... fairly obvious in its intent and maybe even agenda (like Riker falling in love with the gender-free being), but they're easily forgivable in the grand scheme because for every one of those there's tons of episodes like "Datalore," "Disaster," "Inner Light," "Darmok" and, I don't know, "Time's Arrow" that are just fun, sometimes dark morality lessons. No agenda. No social "justice" to speak of. Star Trek has always been a show for everyone, not just people on "the right side of history."

The whole setting of the show is a socialist utopia without borders and all the Starships are staffed with a diverse multicultural crew. Think about in the sixties when during the civil rights movement you had an African American woman, a Japanese man (a recent enemy) and a Russian man (a then current enemy) all on the bridge that is a powerful statement at the time.

Sure, not every episode of Star Trek is an 'issue' episode but a good bulk of them are and I'd argue it's one of the main things Star Trek is known for. Now you don't have to agree with progressive politics to enjoy the show - heck I love reading Mr A despite finding Objectivism to be a load of bull **** but people being mad at Star Trek being what Star Trek has always been seems screwy to me. Wanting Picard to do it better is one thing trying say it's different in its objectives I find wrong though.

[Leo656]

despite finding Objectivism to be a load of bull ****

You're silly. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

The setting may be a "socialist utopia" (at least on the core shows, not ENT and arguably not DS9, and strictly talking about the Federation). Occasionally -- and not even that often (and I think... not even at all on TOS?) -- the crew will run into some character that will ask about money and someone will say "We've solved economics. There is no money anymore." But that's it. It's brought up quickly and moved past. It's there, but the shows are not "about" this. Maybe the "Neutral Zone" episode and that's it. Also, there is money.

And no borders? There's lots of borders. Borders with the Klingons, borders with the Cardassians, borders with the Romulans, etc.. I mean you could argue and say, "But I mean the HUMANS have no borders anymore," but that's not true (and also not the point of Star Trek... the point of Star Trek is to explore how all of these alien races are the same, equally "human"... i.e., if there are still hostile aliens imposing borders against us then "we're not there yet"). There are plenty of TOS and TNG episodes where they visit some random human colony and are told to f*** off.

[Galactus]

Sure, the economy of the Federation is not really what the show is about but it is part of the tapestry that makes up the near permenent backdrop of the show. No matter were they go in the galaxy the Feds take their values with them. We're clearly supposed to think that this is the 'right' way.

yeah I meant that Earth and the Federation doesn't have borders or rather they have very open borders. I don't count human colonies that have unattached themselves from the Federation. Again we're supposed to think borders like the Neutral Zone are a bad.

Again you don't have to agree with any of this in the real world to enjoy the show but denying this is a what Star Trek is seems a little silly to me.

[neatoman]

A common defense I hear as to why it makes sense that money is abolished, is that the replicator, holodeck, transporter, warp drives, tricorders and etc. creates a post-scarcity world. And while it's true that this does solve a lot problems like long transport or hunger and certainly would make many things much cheaper, there still some issue with the technology itself. The replicators can't create everything (we are explicitly told this), there is still need for maintainance and there is still need to generate power or find whatever material is needed to make these devices work. So if there's no money or special privileges, what exactly are the incentives to work in these fields?

Let's say I get a 3D-printer, a really big one of high quality. While I will be able to make virtually anything (provided it's something that can be made of 100% hard plastic) and thereby no longer having a need to buy a lot things, I will still need to plug it into the wall and get those plastic strings on a regular basis.

[Galactus]

True, we've seen instances of the replicator not being able to make certain things but it is usually some strange fictional element and this is usually done create suspense in a story. The impression I've always gotten is that the replicators can make from scratch anything that a person would want to survive day to day in the Star Trek universe.

As for why people would choose to work particularly in non-glamorous fields like maintenance of the replicators well we're told explicitly that people work to better themselves and the rest of humanity. Whether you think that is realistic or not is one thing but it is the explanation we are given in-universe.

Personally I've always had a hard time getting my head around how Federation citizens deal with non Fed races that still use money. It seems gold pressed latinum is the most common currency in the Alpha Quadrant but liquified platinum hardly seems like the kind of thing that would be too complex to replicate so what is to stop people from replicating it? Unless there is some laws to stop that and maybe replicators are programmed to not make it.

[Andrew NDB]

You can't replicate gold-pressed latinum.

[Galactus]

You can't replicate gold-pressed latinum.

I've heard fans say that but I can't remember an instance of it ever being said onscreen I could be very wrong in that though. It doesn't make much sense that it would be liquid platinum even meshed with specks of gold hardly seems like something complex or volatile or would need mass amounts of power to replicate.

Then again we're talking about a franchise were Voyager spent years looking for deuterium all across the Delta Quadrant and even someone coughing could throw off the transporter so...y'know.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, it was never said... but there's no way it could be replicatable. The Ferengi would just sit there replicating bank vaults full of it all day everyday.

[Galactus]

But why can't it be replicated? We've seen the replicators scan complex alien objects and duplicate them what is so hard about liquid platinum mixed with gold?

I think a more likely that replicators are programmed to lock out requests to replicate latinum and that there are methods to detect replicated latinum.

Then again there is a lot about Trek society we gave zero clue about. It will never happen but I'd be interested in a series based around civilians moving around the Alpha Quadrant and really getting to know the various societies and how they function.

[Andrew NDB]

No way. It simply can't be replicatable otherwise the bottom drops out. The Ferengi or whoever would surely just invest all resources into "unlocking" a replicator, assuming they didn't invent their own independently.

Perhaps there is some kind of living, organic component to gold pressed latinum. Or some kind of unique marker to every bar that's traceable. There's something. Probably 20 Star Trek novels talk about it that I've never read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/1yjtfm/on_the_issue_of_latinum_and_why_it_cant_be/

[IMJ]

Never in a million years would I have guessed that there was a Star Wars T.V. series that I'd be more likely to turn on and watch again over a Star Trek T.V. series.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I went back and dug through internet, and I could've sworn the inability to replicate GPL was on screen canon...

Turns out I'm wrong!

Might make an interesting plot someday... the Orion Syndicate begins mass-replicating gold pressed latinum, tanking the Ferengi economy and throwing its government into chaos.

[neatoman]

Picard season 1 is proof positive why Stewart should be barred from the writers room. He has no business in there.

Well, the man did incorrectly think he was missing a foreskin for decades, so he may be a little clueless about other things as well.
GFipAtefUWw

[Leo656]

I choose to believe that in Real Life, Patrick Stewart behaves exactly like Avery Bullock.