Star Trek: Picard

[Roseangelo]

in a show not about exploration.

I wanted to be excited about that last trailer, but I honestly have no idea what is actually going on.

[IMJ]

You mean the first two seasons didn't do that already?

Yeah, they'll probably push Captain Seven of Nine next. With her girlfriend, Raffi and one or two token TNG/VOY/DS9 characters maybe, in a show not about exploration.

Well didn't you know? Star Trek isn't about a functioning society going into space. It's about social justice. Didn't you know that Gene Roddenberry always meant that "Social Justice is the Final Frontier". The Final Frontier couldn't possibly be "outer space".

I wanted to be excited about that last trailer, but I honestly have no idea what is actually going on.

Plot trailers relying on good seasonal writing don't exist anymore.

There is a large Trek convention in Chicago every year that looks great. I've always debating about going but with nu-Trek I don't think it would be the same convention-fun that it might've been back in the 2000's or something.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeesh.

What do you folks suppose the odds are Picard ends up with a secret son by Beverly? These hacks only revere the movies and they've DEFINITELY seen Star Trek II a bunch (which is where that happened with Kirk). And there's an oddly, vaguely Stewart-esque youngster on a new Picard S3 poster.

I wanted to be excited about that last trailer, but I honestly have no idea what is actually going on.

Yeah, what's this season all about? Amanda Plummer wants revenge and took command of the latest giant black evil ship. So explosions!

[Andrew NDB]

re: characters... "only one of them feels like the character we know and love."

re: plot... "Picard is one of those series where you often find yourself shouting at the screen as the next stupid moment unfolds in front of you."

https://www.engadget.com/star-trek-picard-season-three-paramount-plus-preview-review-080010650.html?fbclid=IwAR2GcRvVy_jQJsRljSixYmdN6x FSi1XI2jfH_33TV5VlZAqYhIR9eb5thkE

[ZariusTwo]

John Campea regular and TNG documentarian Robert Myer Burnett said the third season is the best they've made so far. He said this on a comicsgate livestream too so he's not just shilling for hollywood. He also normally hates modern Trek, including Picard seasons one and two.

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[Andrew NDB]

John Campea regular and TNG superfan Roger Myer Burnett said the third season is the best they've made so far.

Making something better than objectively garbage isn't saying much. I'll give it a chance, of course, given the bribery of bringing back the whole TNG cast. I guess the best we can hope for is that it's at least somewhat as good as the heights of the TNG movies got, which is still a weird benchmark to try and strive toward given those movies represent very little or nothing of what made TNG great.

[ZariusTwo]

Making something better than objectively garbage isn't saying much. I'll give it a chance, of course. I guess the best we can hope for is that it's at least somewhat as good as the heights of the TNG movies got, which is still a weird benchmark to try and strive toward.

Considering there's only...what...one good TNG movie?

[Andrew NDB]

Considering there's only...what...one good TNG movie?

And even that one doesn't quite pass inspection on close look. But we forgave a lot at the time with the big budget look and Goldsmith music. Which is an interesting conundrum. I don't know your age, but I'm assuming you're more or less mine. We saw TNG initially in our teens, no? And we saw Generations also in our teens, ish, yes?

What a sad falling of standards there. From TPTB. And going from "what actually hooked people" to "bad."

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[ZariusTwo]

I don't know your age, but I'm assuming you're more or less mine. We saw TNG initially in our teens, no? And we saw Generations also in our teens, ish, yes?

Yeah, that's about right.

[IMJ]

Any pronouncements that "this is the best season so far" could simply and subjectively mean that the season is simply just "better" than the first two. I expect that the first episode or two most of us will be riding high on the "'memberberries" and it will decline from there.

The real litmus test will be after the season wraps up and looking back on it in truth. Remember, the addicts and on-boarders - thousands of them - came out of Iron Man 3 going on about how "it's the best Marvel movie YET!". It's easy to get caught up in nonsense over quality.

Still - I want the season to be great. I want the TNG "Undiscovered Country".

[member_removed]

Still - I want the season to be great. I want the TNG "Undiscovered Country".

Sadly, the closest we'll get to that is Chrisopher (General Chang's) Plummer's daughter as the villain of the season.


First Contact is the best TNG movie, but I still to this day, cannot get past the Borg Queen. Giving the Borg a single leader is the worst decision they made. Absolutely destroys what makes the Borg effective baddies.

Should've keep Alice Krige as a Starfleet officer, say Geordi's number one, she gets assimilated first and becomes a "spokesborg". Just as Locutus and Seven were.

[IMJ]

Sadly, the closest we'll get to that is Chrisopher (General Chang's) Plummer's daughter as the villain of the season.


First Contact is the best TNG movie, but I still to this day, cannot get past the Borg Queen. Giving the Borg a single leader is the worst decision they made. Absolutely destroys what makes the Borg effective baddies.

Should've keep Alice Krige as a Starfleet officer, say Geordi's number one, she gets assimilated first and becomes a "spokesborg". Just as Locutus and Seven were.

Isn't it amazing how simple the solutions are for bad movie points at times? It's like - Don't make Whiplash "Anton Vanko" at all. There's no reason. Just have Whiplash be Marc Scarlotti and nothing changes. Easy.

[Andrew NDB]

First Contact is the best TNG movie, but I still to this day, cannot get past the Borg Queen. Giving the Borg a single leader is the worst decision they made. Absolutely destroys what makes the Borg effective baddies.

Should've keep Alice Krige as a Starfleet officer, say Geordi's number one, she gets assimilated first and becomes a "spokesborg". Just as Locutus and Seven were.

Which shows you the dumb rationale of the movie people. "Aliens had a Queen, right?

The Borg were terrifying on their own, when they were just a unified horde. And VOY should have gotten much, much more mileage out of the Borg. But as soon as they got to "Borg space" I think that's when Kes threw them 10,000 light years out of it.

[ZariusTwo]

Some new character and Starship log entries with some mild and crucial spoilers

https://trekmovie.com/2023/02/11/new-official-star-trek-logs-offer-clues-about-lore-the-titan-and-more-ahead-of-picard-season-3/

Looks like the Enterprise-F will be glimpsed during "Frontier Day" as part of it's decommissioning ceromony.

The Enterprise E's fate is classified.

[Jester]

This joke popped into my head when I was searching imdb for Picard and of course Robert Picardo was a suggestion..glad to see I wasn't alone.

[Andrew NDB]

Seeing some spoilers that

the bad guys are brain scorpions like the ones seen in the TNG episode "Contagion," but different.

[member_removed]

Seeing some spoilers that

the bad guys are brain scorpions like the ones seen in the TNG episode "Contagion," but different.

Did you mean
Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

I don't actually mind that.

I still don't trust them not to screw it up.

[Andrew NDB]

Yes. But it's not ACTUALLY them. Just some other beings they made up. And I guess the season at large really steals from the episode.

[Roseangelo]

Yes. But it's not ACTUALLY them. Just some other beings they made up. And I guess the season at large really steals from the episode.

Uh, I thought they very purposely ignored that episode and all of its implications for the next 6 seasons?

[Andrew NDB]

Uh, I thought they very purposely ignored that episode and all of its implications for the next 6 seasons?

That was when actual writers wrote for Star Trek. Though honestly I always did want those things to be revisited somehow, if even on a different show.

[IMJ]

Did you mean
Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

I don't actually mind that.

I still don't trust them not to screw it up.

Me either and me too.
But that was a lingering plot thread that could've been something even better than the Borg on film. I actually hope they do this.

[member_removed]

IIRC those guys were intended to be the threat the Borg would become, an actual "insect hive".

However, the cost of making 6 foot high realistic bug suits was considered to cost prohibitive.

So, the whole story idea was dropped in favour of low cost cyborgs.

[Andrew NDB]

Guaranteed Discovery would do something with them, but those writers haven't actually watched any Star Trek.

[Jester]

Robert Meyer Burnett, a producer of multiple TNG documentaries, and Dave "Computing Forever" Cullen have seen all 10 episodes and recommend them. Both were very critical of the 1st 2 seasons.

Episode 1 was...ok.
I'm kinda Beverly would go all Rambo on some invading aliens, being a Doctor and all, but it was great seeing Picard and Riker playing off eachother.

[ZariusTwo]

Have to adjust to everything being set twenty or so years after 'TNG' when more accurately it's been twenty or so years since Nemesis, would this indicate TNG and the movies took place in the same calendar?

Picard fell out with Beverly over 20 years ago and we're introduced to her second son, who's also 20 years...and let's call back to what Picard said about not wanting a legacy...poor choice of words Jean-Luc, doesn't take Sherlock to deduce this.

My headcanon is Shaw had a little too much to drink, hence why he slept in while Seven redirected the Titan. Real stretch of logic there, wouldn't Shaw have told the crew NOT to head to the system if Picard and Riker tried to request it? And wouldn't they have reported Seven immediately if he had?

First Contact theme for the end credits!

[Andrew NDB]

Phaser rifles literally behaving as shotguns is my only complaint with this episode. Beverly literally c0cking it like a shotgun. One pump = stun, two pumps = ouch, and three pumps = disintegrate, apparently. Like a Super Soaker. This simply isn't how phasers or phaser rifles work.

And yeah, I called that'll be Picard's son (they've put him on posters, even). These guys only watch Star Trek II and Nemesis on repeat, so that'll be it. It's that or they really, really want us to believe it is and the big surprise will be that it's not. And these have never been writers with any sort of subtlety.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, dear god...

jicbeR8xoVo

[CyberCubed]

Does Beverly not speaking to anyone for 20 years, assumingly right after Nemesis, feel weird to anyone?

[Andrew NDB]

Does Beverly not speaking to anyone for 20 years, assumingly right after Nemesis, feel weird to anyone?

It's going to be something like, Picard knocked her up, she knew he didn't like kids, didn't want to burden him from "the stars," etc.,

[IMJ]

Does Beverly not speaking to anyone for 20 years, assumingly right after Nemesis, feel weird to anyone?

Yeah, especially with sub-space communications and whatnot. But this is different Trek. Everyone wears black coats like the Matrix or apparently runs off to join random, weird para-military units like space rangers or the Space Red Cross.

[CyberCubed]

I could buy Worf not speaking to them for 20 years since he was already on DS9 and then left the station as well when the series ended, but for Beverly feels a bit strange.

Also Nemesis came out in 2002 and we're now in 2023, so are they trying to mirror the 20 year gap in real life as well? Its been 20 years for us as well.

[newfan]

Just starting S3, thought I was going to have to sign to to Paramount if I wanted to see this season (as we have it here now) but it's still on Prime too, so that worked out.

[IMJ]

1st episode was solid.
Pretty clear I think that Worf is Raffie's "handler" and also that, barring an attempt by the writers to "subvert our expectations", that Crusher's kid is Picard's son. Although why he has a British accent while being raised by an American mother and out in space is beyond me.

When is the Hollywood braintrust going to learn that an accent is a function of how and where you were raised and not a genetic trait.

Either way I'm looking forward to the next episode and hope the show doesn't jump the shark. I'm already left feeling that this season should've been the mediocre season 1 and then who knows what seasons 2 and 3 could've been. But it's still early, so....

[Andrew NDB]

I got mild SJW implications from Seven getting irritated by Captain Whiteguy forcing her to use her deadname.

Oh, look.

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I've got to take a look at this later.

[IMJ]

I got mild SJW implications from Seven getting irritated by Captain Whiteguy forcing her to use her deadname.

I did too, but it wasn't so overt that we tend to see with woke $#!(. So basically in this case, woke $#!( or not there was enough there that I could just take that Captain's @sswipe control tendencies as character-driven and not "white-male-leader commentary".

[Andrew NDB]

I did too, but it wasn't so overt that we tend to see with woke $#!(. So basically in this case, woke $#!( or not there was enough there that I could just take that Captain's @sswipe control tendencies as character-driven and not "white-male-leader commentary".

That's a good point. It is a very Star Trek subtle way of touching on a modern day issue.

[newfan]

1st episode was solid.
Pretty clear I think that Worf is Raffie's "handler" and also that, barring an attempt by the writers to "subvert our expectations", that Crusher's kid is Picard's son. Although why he has a British accent while being raised by an American mother and out in space is beyond me.

When is the Hollywood braintrust going to learn that an accent is a function of how and where you were raised and not a genetic trait.

Either way I'm looking forward to the next episode and hope the show doesn't jump the shark. I'm already left feeling that this season should've been the mediocre season 1 and then who knows what seasons 2 and 3 could've been. But it's still early, so....

I totally missed the accent, agreed, maybe they'll write in about where he grew up to cover that.

I did like the ep. I got a little feel of Kirk and co treatment when they were being referred to as reckless etc. I guess that combined with the Enterprise D jab was just to make the characters feel a little irrelevant. I don't see an issue with the shape of Enterprise D, I do prefer the ships that look more like the original shape Enterprise but I liked D too.

[IMJ]

I did like the ep. I got a little feel of Kirk and co treatment when they were being referred to as reckless etc. I guess that combined with the Enterprise D jab was just to make the characters feel a little irrelevant. I don't see an issue with the shape of Enterprise D, I do prefer the ships that look more like the original shape Enterprise but I liked D too.

The first episode had vibed that it was cribbing Star Trek III so far pretty significantly.

[CyberCubed]

It's always odd to me when a new alien species pops up out of nowhere they're always immediately hostile and want to kill everyone in sight. Its been done so many times now you have to wonder where all these aliens have been in the last 200+ or whatever years the Federation has been exploring the galaxy. It's not as if they're all from the Delta or Gamma quadrants either, they just randomly show up.

[member_removed]

I could buy Worf not speaking to them for 20 years since he was already on DS9 and then left the station as well when the series ended, but for Beverly feels a bit strange.

Also Nemesis came out in 2002 and we're now in 2023, so are they trying to mirror the 20 year gap in real life as well? Its been 20 years for us as well.

But can buy the idea of her having erotic ghost sex with dead Nana's ghost BF.

I'm calling it, Ronin the ghost is the baby daddy.

[Coola Yagami]

Gonna suck whenever the holodeck becomes a reality cause I'll either be long dead or way too old to 'properly' enjoy it.

[IMJ]

My guess at the end of this season......

Riker dies with an emotional farewell to Deanna whom he is estranged from for whatever reason

Lore can be used to bring Data back to save the day somehow, but the writing team fumbles that ball

Crusher, Deanna and 7 are setup for a "girl Trek spinoff"

7 gets white-guy-Captain's job as Captain of the Titan

Picard realizes that he and Beverly will never work. He has a legacy with his insta-son and goes off at the end to meet the Romulan chick in retirement on whatever Romulan planet she went too.

Worf mentors Raffi who gets some powerful role in the Starfleet CIA thingy.

[Andrew NDB]

Picard's son, Geordi's daughter, Captain Seven, Raffi around because lesbian relationship. That would be the spinoff, probably. With recurring cameos from other TNG-VOY people.

[CyberCubed]

I doubt they'll bring Data back when they killed him off a second time in Season 1.

[Andrew NDB]

I doubt they'll bring Data back when they killed him off a second time in Season 1.

Its possible. Particularly since they remember that TNG told us that Data ages so they (and Spiner) don't need too many tricks. Data copied all of his engrams into B4 so I don't see why they couldn't just pull them out of him. We saw his body in Starfleet in season 1.

Data reborn in Lore would have a certain poetry to it, given the whole story there.

[member_removed]

Picard's son, Geordi's daughter, Captain Seven, Raffi around because lesbian relationship. That would be the spinoff, probably. With recurring cameos from other TNG-VOY people.

Star Trek: Titan, right there.

It's what I've been jonesing for. A proper follow-up to 90's Trek.

Be careful what you wish for!

[IMJ]

I doubt they'll bring Data back when they killed him off a second time in Season 1.

by their logic they will bring Data back to kill him off a 3rd time. 3rd times a charm when "subverting expectations" you know.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw episode 2. It more or less maintains the quality of the first episode. I could have gone without the mass beheadings (that immediately makes me think of that stupid Romulan monk guy from the last 2 seasons) and there does seem to be a quota for explosions and phasering but the story seems sound and these actually feel like real characters.

[ZariusTwo]

It was another good episode and at least the a-hole Titan Captain is becoming more tolerable/likeable, there's a good egg in there somewhere, just don't crack 'em open.

And yeah, the violence with Worf was a little too cartoony, like something from Troma.

[IMJ]

Solid episode. Only 8 left. I'm still hoping this ends well so that I can ignore all other Trek for the last 6 years or so and sort of consider this movie the follow-up to Nemesis.

Also really hoping for an Undiscovered Country-style cast sign-off on the last episode credits.

[Roseangelo]

Ehh. I have some hesitations, but overall ok.

[Andrew NDB]

Also really hoping for an Undiscovered Country-style cast sign-off on the last episode credits.

Yes! And while we're at it, let's get the Undiscovered Country's score there, too. Why not? We've got First Contact's score in there, which we all loved. But has nothing to do with what's going on in Picard season 3. The First Contact score was written to speak to the wonder of first contact itself... this is about grim stuff. But it's well written, so far. So f*** it, give me that Undiscovered Country end credits score, too, if we're just throwing that stuff out the window. Let's get ALL the memberberries then.

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Also, note this:

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[CyberCubed]

So there's only 8 episodes left and most of TNG cast hasn't even appeared yet, and I can't even count Beverly or Worf because they appeared for all but 10 seconds so far. So who is getting shafted? I'm guessing Troi will barely appear at all till the end.

Also not liking the new lady villain. Does anyone else feel like Star Trek villains are just not interesting anymore.

[IMJ]

So there's only 8 episodes left and most of TNG cast hasn't even appeared yet, and I can't even count Beverly or Worf because they appeared for all but 10 seconds so far. So who is getting shafted? I'm guessing Troi will barely appear at all till the end.

Also not liking the new lady villain. Does anyone else feel like Star Trek villains are just not interesting anymore.

The girl-boss' ship even looks like one of those purple parasites from early TNG if you put them side-by-side. Would be really great if those things were the villains and we finally had a payoff to that amazing "Starfleet Infiltration" episode.

My guess is that Lore is working with the girl-boss and developed the "weapon of Unknown origin" reported on when they scanned the Shrike.

[Andrew NDB]

Personally I AM hoping the leak is wrong about it only being a knockoff of the Conspiracy aliens and it turns out to be the real thing. It better not be an Irumodic Mind Syndrome thing where they just didn't want to pay an old writer. As a kid that episode always stayed with me while others laughed at it.

[Roseangelo]

Personally I AM hoping the leak is wrong about it only being a knockoff of the Conspiracy aliens and it turns out to be the real thing. It better not be an Irumodic Mind Syndrome thing where they just didn't want to pay an old writer. As a kid that episode always stayed with me while others laughed at it.

The conspiracy aliens episode just played on Pluto tonight, so I'm all prepped.

[ZariusTwo]

Episode three

Picard and Beverly were on/off about five times in their timeline, though no specific stardates or events are given, on the last shore leave they had before Picard was called away, Beverly fell pregnant.

She tried telling Picard several times, but each attempt was compounded by another incident endangering him, so Beverly deemed Picard's life would be too dangerous to raise a child in. Picard understandably is frustrated with Beverly and lets her know it, saying he deserved a chance to raise his son.

The episode's title 'seventeen seconds' is in reference to the amount of time it takes Will and Picard to contemplate the possibility that fatherhood could be lost to them. With Riker, it was when his late son was born, and for Picard, it's when Jack is crucially injured in the episode and almost dies.

Picard, throughout the episode, begins to become a bit rash when he realizes Will's attempts to evade the Shrike are failing, and tries to tell him to fight instead. Will is reluctant, and when he eventually caves to his friend's request to take action, their enemies use portal technology to turn the Titans photon blasts against it, damaging it and leaving it stricken and helpless. Riker orders Picard off the bridge, he's doomed them all.

Meantime, Worf and Rafi discover their enemies are Changelings, a rogue splinter of the Dominion. Wor indicates Odo helped tip him off to their plans

[Andrew NDB]

Episode three


Meantime, Worf and Rafi discover their enemies are Changelings, a rogue splinter of the Dominion. Wor indicates Odo helped tip him off to their plans

Whoa. Really?

Maybe the Conspiracy bug "leak" was misdirection.

[IMJ]

Just watched episode 3 and I've got to say that I did not expect Odo's people at all.....

Not sure what they are getting at with the dissention between Riker and Picard, although I did get a kick out of the quick explanation for Crusher's British accent.

[neatoman]

... Uh... Odo's actor is dead, they're not planning recasting just for a cameo, are they?

[Andrew NDB]

... Uh... Odo's actor is dead, they're not planning recasting just for a cameo, are they?

I doubt there'd be any plans. If so Odo is well suited to being recast, given the metric ton of makeup/effects he wears. I wouldn't be against it as long as it means a happy ending with Kira.

[IMJ]

... Uh... Odo's actor is dead, they're not planning recasting just for a cameo, are they?

I mean.... aside from the fan service there wouldn't be a need for him to appear. He was sort of alluded to by Worf. It's probably enough that they hinted at him.

[CyberCubed]

This was a good episode and at least gave a plausible explanation why Crusher kept Picard's son a secret...for over 20 years. The acting was also very good in the scene to keep it believeable...enough.

I feel like they're setting up a spinoff with 7 of 9 and Geordi's daughter.

Worf and Raffi were pretty good and Worf is pretty funny now. I guess he will be a comic relief character in this series.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw the third episode. Dug it, but I'm beginning to worry they're going to start adding too much to things. Right now it's fine. We have Vadik and the mystery there. We have a Dominion splinter faction, apparently. Picard has a son, great. But if we're going to start getting layers of other things tacked on top of all of this (Yesterday's Enterprise alternate timeline, Moriarty, Lore, Conspiracy bugs or a knockoff of them, more) it could very well end up a convoluted mess that doesn't serve any of the one story elements. I'd be happy if it they'd just focus on the Dominion splinter faction as the Big Bad, but something tells me they're going to keep going.

This was a good episode and at least gave a plausible explanation why Crusher kept Picard's son a secret...for over 20 years. The acting was also very good in the scene to keep it believeable...enough.

I was on board for the most part (though again, we're back to revisionist history encapsulating Picard's adventures as him constantly getting shot at and blown up... which is a very TNG movie way of looking at Picard and not a TNG way of looking at Picard) though... what exactly was stopping her from telling him about his son when Picard was just sitting at Chateau Picard staring at grapes for untold years and there wasn't any danger?

Still, they did about the best they could to explain it away.

I feel like they're setting up a spinoff with 7 of 9 and Geordi's daughter.

I think IMJ is right and there'd probably be a push from Secret Hideout to see more Worf and Raffi first (doubtlessly adding the Romulan swordsman from the other seasons), doing dark and secret missions for the Federation with a lot of beheadings and no exploration on a lot of worlds that all look like Blade Runner. It would be far from my choice, but if it's that over the bullsh** Section 31 show, I'll take it. The hope, of course, is that we'd still get some semblance of a proper 25th century traditional exploration show with a traditional Starfleet ship as well.

I did get a kick out of the quick explanation for Crusher's British accent.

I must have missed the explanation. What was it?

[member_removed]

Well, I'm slightly annoyed that the changlings are back.

IMO, DS9 ended perfectly and wrapped everything with a neat little bow.

I'd much prefer the conspiracy bugs. Much more open ended for the writer monkey's to **** up.

I also paused the episode after Beverley explained that Picard was the baby daddy. Went and made a sandwich. Could not help but think, about Gene's "no conflict in the future".

But I was able to except Crushers explanation.

[Andrew NDB]

I just hope they know what they're doing with the Riker-Picard dissention. There were a few times in the episode I got shades of season 1's "everyone hates Picard (and for no reason)" again.

Also, it's a little admirable they're committing to the "Picard is an android" stuff and not shying away from it as they could easily as many would say should do. There's been like 3 references to him being such in this season so far.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if they keep reminding us Picard has a robot body for a reason, are they going to do anything about it? I still don't quite get it. Yes I know they transfered Picard's mind to a synthetic body so technically it's the "real" Picard, but I don't understand how the body ages like his real body did and why he still needs to eat or get tired or even feels pain like a normal person.

[IMJ]

This was a good episode and at least gave a plausible explanation why Crusher kept Picard's son a secret...for over 20 years.

See I thought that was actually pretty awful - a long drawn out dialog that was required to get to the convoluted "positive" reason for a "negative" thing. Sort of like the BS you have to weave at a job interview for a judgemental HR bimbo....

"I did this awful stupid thing because I'm such a good person and it was required out of my supreme virtue" e.g. "I kept your son from you because you are such a hero that you are always called to action and so because of that I didn't want your son to interfere with your life and because of that I was protecting you which I was also protecting him bla bla bla". That was such bad writing from the showrunner that the convoluted virtue-signal required an extreme back and forth between Crusher and Picard to manifest it.

I must have missed the explanation. What was it?

Jack went to school in London and "couldn't shake the accent he picked up". :lol:

I was on board for the most part (though again, we're back to revisionist history encapsulating Picard's adventures as him constantly getting shot at and blown up... which is a very TNG movie way of looking at Picard and not a TNG way of looking at Picard) though

Yeah they really are going the "Kirk and company" route with the "loose cannon" thing, which basically aside from the movie "Insurrection" is virtually non-existent in TNG. And I suppose there was the defying of Starfleet's order to stay out of the Borg fight in First Contact. :roll: I guess....

Well, I'm slightly annoyed that the changlings are back.

I'd much prefer the conspiracy bugs. Much more open ended for the writer monkey's to **** up.

We only have a few episodes left and a lot of material to drop across them at this point. My guess is that clearly the "stolen" Daystrom institute item was very likely Moriarty's holo-cube - the one he was placed inside with a simulated Universe to roam around.

My second guess is that the "unknown technology" on the shrike was the wormhole weapon which was probably designed by Lore.

Third guess is that maybe the conspiracy bugs are still part of it - corralled by the Changelings. But yeah it's actually a great setup of TNG-era material, but now there is so much to get through in only five episodes that it could fall apart. I mean - the TNG crew haven't even reunited - I'm beginning to wonder if all we will get of Troy will be the holo-call in the Flashback of this episode.

You know that Geordi is going to show up, probably with the Enterprise-E or F and some way to engineer a solution against the wormhole weapon.

[CyberCubed]

Most people are praising Patrick Stewart's and Gate's performance during the argument scene, it is at least well acted even if you don't find the concept of keeping his son hidden plausible.

[IMJ]

Yeah... sure it's well acted. I'd give them that.

[Andrew NDB]

Would anyone be particularly upset if Sisko returns at the end to crush the bad guys?

[IMJ]

Would anyone be particularly upset if Sisko returns at the end to crush the bad guys?

I think that would be as bad as a move as putting Riker and Troi in the last episode of Enterprise.

Although, as a point of conversation, people criticize the Riker and Troi thing for the wrong reasons - "they did that and basically turned the entire show into a holodeck simulation and ruined it!" How people got that out of it is lack of comprehension on a mind boggling level.

But that aside, I would like to see Sisko come back but not here. If they do that then they should've tooled the entire season as the TNG/DS9 team-up we've been waiting for instead of the final TNG send-off.

[CyberCubed]

Avery Brooks went insane.

The only DS9 characters I see appearing is Major Kira and Quark. They were both on Lower Decks last season voicing their characters.

[IMJ]

:lol:
That crazy interview he did with Shatner on that "The Captains" doc? :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Part of me thinks he was just trolling Shatner there. Because he doesn't talk like that at the conventions. Not that much.

Like, here's him a few years after the Captains.

KMOj3PccPug

Oh, and one moment you know is coming is things will get super hairy with the Shrike and then one of the crew will say something like, "Some kind of ship is coming out of that nebula... SIR, it's the Enterprise!" and then the F will swoop in and scare off the Shrike.

[member_removed]

We only have a few episodes left and a lot of material to drop across them at this point. My guess is that clearly the "stolen" Daystrom institute item was very likely Moriarty's holo-cube - the one he was placed inside with a simulated Universe to roam around.

My second guess is that the "unknown technology" on the shrike was the wormhole weapon which was probably designed by Lore.

Third guess is that maybe the conspiracy bugs are still part of it - corralled by the Changelings. But yeah it's actually a great setup of TNG-era material, but now there is so much to get through in only five episodes that it could fall apart. I mean - the TNG crew haven't even reunited - I'm beginning to wonder if all we will get of Troy will be the holo-call in the Flashback of this episode.

You know that Geordi is going to show up, probably with the Enterprise-E or F and some way to engineer a solution against the wormhole weapon.
My guess is that Lore is the stolen technology from the Daystrom institute.
Yesterday my fan bran went into overdrive, I started to consider, in the trailer “was that really Moriarty?” Or a changeling
Salome Jens who played the leader of the dominion is still alive, 87 years young and her wiki page says she is still working, despite having no credits since 2016. I guess she wouldn’t need the alien make up and could appear human.
Perhaps the stolen tech is a Changeling proof prison cell? She did surrender at the end of DS9.

Would anyone be particularly upset if Sisko returns at the end to crush the bad guys?
Once again I think DS9 had a perfect ending and doesn’t need screwing around with.
Part of me thinks he was just trolling Shatner there. Because he doesn't talk like that at the conventions. Not that much.

Like, here's him a few years after the Captains.
I hear he hasn’t done a convention since about 2016, He didn’t do the 2018 anniversary con in Vegas or partake in the What we left behind documentary.
I agree he was trolling Shatner, but I think his put Trek behind him.

[Andrew NDB]

I wouldn't call DS9's finale a perfect ending. It's kind of a cliffhanger. And how awful that Sisko is stuck in the wormhole with a newborn child and new wife on their own. His return would have been a neat DTV movie 20 years ago, but I'll take what I can get while the writers are behaving, finally.

But yeah it's actually a great setup of TNG-era material, but now there is so much to get through in only five episodes that it could fall apart.

There are 7 episodes left.

[CyberCubed]

I'm pretty sure Avery Brooks is insane. I mean he still lives a normal life as far as we know and can function properly, but he went insane in terms of his awareness of the world. It's like he is stuck with the Prophets in his own reality.

He's definitely "not all there" at any rate. Definitely has some screws loose. I don't see him ever returning as Sisko. And with Odo's actor dead, the only realistic options are Major Kira and Quark, as they love the franchise and were just in Lower Decks reprising their characters.

[IMJ]

There are 7 episodes left.

Oh well that's good - I thought the season was 8 episodes. I'll take more.... 8)

[ZariusTwo]

Another highly emotional character-focused episode, looks like we've concluded the first act, and in a manner that turns a captivating sink or swim survival story into the embodiment of what the Star Trek mission is all about!

Were those space babies the Farpoint species? Looked like it, and Picard did name drop Farpoint in a scene prior. Yeah, a pregnant nebula is the kind of nuts 90s Trek story you want to slot into a sink or swim survival epic

Shaw takes one unlikeable step and then takes another lovable one. We learn something new with each journey he goes on Here we learn he has depression and PTSD from the Battle of Wolf 359

A clue to the final Changeling reveal was kind of present in the recap, and you'll figure it out also when Shaw and Seven are having their chat about what a Changeling would say to give itself away

So in the flashbacks Jack did reach out to Jean-Luc when he was younger, though Picard did not know who he was and he told him that starfleet was his only family. Tsk, tsk

[Jester]

The whole Picard doesn’t want a legacy thing rings odd for me now that I look back at Generations and remember his Nexus dream life.

I can totally understand Beverly choosing not to put a target on Jack's back though.

[Andrew NDB]

I was pleased. It felt like a TNG episode and a TOS movie combined.

[member_removed]

I was pleased. It felt like a TNG episode and a TOS movie combined.

I haven't seen it yet.

But I'm just waiting to be let down.

Like, it's too good to be true.

[ZariusTwo]

I was pleased. It felt like a TNG episode and a TOS movie combined.

If I could find a way of editing out all the mystery box content, these four episodes would be a damn good eleventh movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, there's still plenty of time for them to blow it. But episode 4 actually even serves as a semi-conclusion to just those 4 episodes. 6 episodes left and we have to wrap up a splinter-Dominion invasion, whatever is going on with Vadic, Moriarty, Lore, actually reintroduce the rest of the TNG cast, meet up wirh Worf and Raffi... and these are just the things we KNOW about. Then there's the rumored stuff like Tasha Yar, Yesterday's Enterprise timeline stuff, etc..

So far so good, though.

Any guesses on the "face" that spoke to Vadic? Looked and sounded like an angry Jem Hadar to me. Which may speak to a Jem Hadar revolution post-no more drugs.

[ZariusTwo]

Any guesses on the "face" that spoke to Vadic? Looked and sounded like an angry Jem Hadar to me. Which may speak to a Jem Hadar revolution post-no more drugs.

I thought it was a Reman, and my mind turned to Jack possibly being a Shinzon clone.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought it was a Reman, and my mind turned to Jack possibly being a Shinzon clone.

Shinzon would have already been bald by now according to that stupid Nemesis photo. And I saw spikes on that face.

Though crap... what could it be? Something in his blood that can somehow break the Jem Hadar addiction or something?

[ZariusTwo]

Shinzon would have already been bald by now according to that stupid Nemesis photo

Yeah, there's that bit where he asks Picard about the hair that I thought was referencing something like that possibly happening

[IMJ]

If I could find a way of editing out all the mystery box content, these four episodes would be a damn good eleventh movie.

I don't know if you remember this but some years back several of the better 2-parters from TNG got individual, "movie-style" blu-ray releases that edited the episodes together so you could sit through them as a single film. So far it would be pretty cool if that was done with this series as well. It's not 'everything I wanted' as a Trek fan hoping for 20 years for a Nemesis resolution, but it's the first solid presentation of Trek we've had in decades.

The last episode was great. It definitely called back to the Farpoint alien, but I don't think those were the same creature. For a moment I was wondering if little Tin-Man's were going to come out of the Nebula. Also sort of liked how this episode capped off the first four as a mid-season finale of sorts at the end.

There are definitely several moments of SJW-sensibility throughout the show so far that are pretty ridiculous, but at least they aren't hitting you over the head with it. For example, using Seven's "self-chosen" name as respect instead of her real name as "identity commentary". Or using the Holo-Deck as a place to basically hide-in during times of near-death stress as "safe-space commentary" (HUGE eyeroll at that one). There's more too and it's pretty cringe-worthy but again at least the moralistic shaming and virtue-bull$#!( are absent from it. I'd say it's about the best we could expect from this generation of creatives.

[ZariusTwo]

I don't know if you remember this but some years back several of the better 2-parters from TNG got individual, "movie-style" blu-ray releases that edited the episodes together so you could sit through them as a single film. .

I remember when they did all that during the VHS days:D

[IMJ]

I remember when they did all that during the VHS days:D

Did they seamlessly edit the episodes together on the VHS tapes to make a single viewing or where they still presented as single "episodes" with opening credits and so on?
Thought it was a novel idea to pump out a few more TNG-era Blu-Rays!

Geeze man, a TNG VHS collection was worse than having an encyclopedia set coming in and residing on your shelves... lol!

[ZariusTwo]

Did they seamlessly edit the episodes together on the VHS tapes to make a single viewing or where they still presented as single "episodes" with opening credits and so on?!

They were definite movie-length edits edited together neatly, I remember renting out a few.

[IMJ]

They were definite movie-length edits edited together neatly, I remember renting out a few.

That's what they should do with this season of Picard, maybe across two movies.

[CyberCubed]

There are definitely several moments of SJW-sensibility throughout the show so far that are pretty ridiculous, but at least they aren't hitting you over the head with it. For example, using Seven's "self-chosen" name as respect instead of her real name as "identity commentary".

I mean, that's what she decided back on Voyager. But the reality is the writers know "7 of 9" is recognizable to fans, if they started calling her Annika in every episode, people would be like, "Who?"

[Andrew NDB]

tRXaMxt09-I

[Andrew NDB]

Huh... they really did offer the part of Seven's husband to Robert Beltran (Chakotay) in the evil alternate timeline in season 2:

https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/09/exclusive-robert-beltran-turned-down-star-trek-picard-role-picking-up-on-seven-chakotay-romance/?fbclid=IwAR2izEQP79b2QaMw_bFyYDP7QkJnHmGDkrxJsXNz 3CeJrhD99cZwdhIaizA

That was exactly what I said they should've done. Yeah, it wouldn't have been a satisfying return of his character or anything, but it'd have been fun and been something.

[IMJ]

I mean, that's what she decided back on Voyager. But the reality is the writers know "7 of 9" is recognizable to fans, if they started calling her Annika in every episode, people would be like, "Who?"

Have you been watching Picard? It's literally a point of "chosen identity respect" on the show, analogous in it's own way to "pronouns" and other identifier-arguments.

[Andrew NDB]

So Vadic IS a Changeling and definitely no Conspiracy bugs.

https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/12/star-trek-picard-season-3-showrunner-confirms-details-about-the-season-villains/

[member_removed]

So Vadic IS a Changeling and definitely no Conspiracy bugs.

https://trekmovie.com/2023/03/12/star-trek-picard-season-3-showrunner-confirms-details-about-the-season-villains/

I thought maybe just Vadic's hand was a Founder.

Why would a founder need to cut their own hand off?

Why the change in personality, when separated from the hand? Although that would be more a function of the conspiracy bugs (or Stargate's Gou'old).

Are we actually going to see Lore and Moriarty or Founders posing as them?

[IMJ]

I thought maybe just Vadic's hand was a Founder.

Why would a founder need to cut their own hand off?

Why the change in personality, when separated from the hand? Although that would be more a function of the conspiracy bugs (or Stargate's Gou'old).

Are we actually going to see Lore and Moriarty or Founders posing as them?

The actress went on Twitter and stated outright that Vadic is a changeling and that her hand isn't any kind of "special hand". I just chaulk the knife up to nu-Trek sensibility.

I mean - the season has been great and they still found a way to bring in "safe spaces" with the whole Holodeck thing, but at least without buzzwording it as a "safe space".

It isn't perfect - it's just better.

[Andrew NDB]

Having watched the episode before I read anything else, I assumed she was a non-Changeling who has been given a prosthetic hand by her Changeling bosses which also acts like a subspace radio to them.

[IMJ]

Having watched the episode before I read anything else, I assumed she was a non-Changeling who has been given a prosthetic hand by her Changeling bosses which also acts like a subspace radio to them.

I did too at first. It wasn't -ahem - handled well. :D

[Andrew NDB]

Latest one. These bastards. I did get a little weepy.

[ZariusTwo]

RO!

Picard still hadn't gotten over "Premptive Strike", but their mutual sense of betrayal helped the other come to understand they were on the same side.

I knew Ro was a goner when she handed Picard her earing, which itself helps puts he and Riker back in touch with Worf, now the reunion begins in earnest.

Jack also pulls a bit of a Kingsman. Maybe that has something to do with him looking a bit like Colin Firth? Rofl

[CyberCubed]

I can't believe they killed Worf.

No they didn't.

[Andrew NDB]

Do we think there's a chance Ro will be revealed as alive later on? The Titan crew (Seven, I think?) mentioned there was a good chance they could beam her if she got closer to the Titan... so surely the same could be true of the Intrepid, which she got SUPER close to (obviously). Shields were down on both ends, so it's possible.

Obviously that would undermine all impact of her death scene.

[IMJ]

No. I'd say she's dead. Besides - her arc was fulfilled. She had a C+, maybe B- role in TNG that afforded the show some continuity. It was cool to see her in that episode, but I wouldn't say anyone was clamoring for this character beyond the 'memberberries of her return here, and something to clap for.

To be honest I think her death gave her more relevance than any other appearances they would shove her into, so let it ride. Before this, her best appearance was the "ghost" episode with Geordi and that one had almost nothing to do with her overall arc, ironically.

[CyberCubed]

Apparently it was a struggle for her to even come back for 1 episode. For some reason she really doesn't like Star Trek. Remember when she was supposed to be Major Kira on DS9? But since the actress didn't want to return that's why they created the Kira character.

[Andrew NDB]

It wasn't about not liking Trek, she just didn't want to commit to a weekly 26 episode TV show that would likely last 7 seasons (it did) at a time when she was pursuing a movie career. Turns out her movie career didn't really go anywhere and that was a mistake.

[member_removed]

It wasn't about not liking Trek, she just didn't want to commit to a weekly 26 episode TV show that would likely last 7 seasons (it did) at a time when she was pursuing a movie career. Turns out her movie career didn't really go anywhere and that was a mistake.

I feel as though I remember around the time of peak 90's Trek, I read a rumour she was also offered a role in Voyager, I guess either Chakatoy, Paris or Torres.

[Andrew NDB]

I feel as though I remember around the time of peak 90's Trek, I read a rumour she was also offered a role in Voyager, I guess either Chakatoy, Paris or Torres.

Which, if true, would have only been a few years after declining the DS9 role. I'm sure she was in the same headspace ("hang on, movie career is about to come").

[Andrew NDB]

Saw episode 6 last night. So, uhhhh... are we sure this was just a throwaway thing?



They literally have James T. Kirk's body on the station.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhv0xK6B/330367418-1183632632289019-5955568236195473897-n.jpg

[neatoman]

Saw episode 6 last night. So, uhhhh... are we sure this was just a throwaway thing?



They literally have James T. Kirk's body on the station.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhv0xK6B/330367418-1183632632289019-5955568236195473897-n.jpg



I thought Picard buried him?

[Andrew NDB]

I thought Picard buried him?

Presumably Starfleet would have removed any trace of the Enterprise-D and Kirk's body so as not to allow the civilization there to discover them. And that's exactly what Starfleet did or was in the process of doing in Shatner's old "The Return" novel.

[ZariusTwo]

Episode Six


Having a direct follow-up to Star Trek IV wasn't on my memberberry scratch card but here we are. Looks like the Shatner penned novel Ashes of Eden isn't canon as the Enterprise-A is shown intact at the Fleet Museum. Also present are the second Defiant, the HMS Bounty from Star Trek IV, and of course...Voyager, which gets a little more focus due to Seven being there.

The cameo of Moriarty was nice, it wasn't the 'real' one, just one projected as a defence mechanism by Data/Lore/B4/Soong, have to admit, they kept the idea that they were doing a multi-personality Data synth quiet, as everyone just assumed it was simply going to be Lore from the trailers.

I know someone may say now is the part where you definitely had to have been paying attention to season one of Picard as we learn The Changelings stole Picard's human remains from Daystrom, but they continuously kept calling back to Picard's positronic body in prior episodes and this one so that at least reminds us all that this is the same show, and that it's all tying back to even the lore established by this spin-off.

[IMJ]

I can't help but feel that the "combined personality Data" was retooled from whatever was supposed to be the follow-up to Nemesis. It also follows the "out of his mind Spock" a bit.

It was a great episode. The Enterprise-A was a surprise and after all the hype the final role of Moriarty was really surprising. I'm glad the actor didn't mind doing that incredibly small 'memberberries appearance.

On another note, the novels are never cannon, although I only read the original TNG novel-line through to "Death In Winter."

[CyberCubed]

A lot of great moments. 7 reminiscing about Voyager. Riker and Worf's interactions were fun. Geordi was very well handled and him being protective over his daughters was great.

Moriarty just being a brief cameo was for the best. Data being alive again and a combination of characters is going to be interesting. Data and Geordi's friendship was pointed out. Shaw fanboying Geordi was great. Nice moments with the younger cast too and Picard's son.

This was a great way to do a fanservice/nostalgia ep but still make everything make sense and fit the plot.

[Andrew NDB]

It's a bit disappointing about Moriarty. I think I'd have rather they not have put him in the trailers at all if it was just going to turn out to be this (i.e., nothing). It'd be a fun surprise and not the enormous letdown it'd be ("Is Moriarty the big bad behind the scene?" "Is Moriarty, with a mobile emitter, teaming up with Lore?" etc., etc.) if we're left to ponder his role from the trailers alone. And no, it wasn't even him. It was just a crude recreation of the idea of him from Data's memories.

[IMJ]

It's a bit disappointing about Moriarty. I think I'd have rather they not have put him in the trailers if it was just going to turn out to be this (i.e., nothing). It'd be a fun surprise and not an enormous letdown ("Is Moriarty the big bad behind the scene?" "Is Moriarty, with a mobile emitter, teaming up with Lore?" etc., etc.).

I agree to an extent, but I'll throw this out there - what they did with Moriarty in the trailers versus the show - that was maybe the proper way to "subvert expectations".

[Andrew NDB]

Tuvok appearance as a Changeling. Origin story for Vadic and her gang. Basically that's all, but it seems quite good. I just poked around at it a bit with the intention of giving it a proper watch tomorrow. Yet another name dropping of Admiral Janeway... I'm fairly convinced at this point she will show up at some point.

[ZariusTwo]

Good one

A little more on what Jack's powers are, loved Geordi revealing what he went through after Data's death in Nemesis, reminding us all they had the bond long before the movies shifted that focus to Picard and Data. Liked that the crew's plan to trap Vadac was turned on it's head by Lore and they wound up losing the Titan at the end. Glad they used at least the surprise Tuvok cameo to show the threat level of the Changeling infiltration

[Andrew NDB]

Also it occurred to me... what's the one other time we saw people's eyes turning red like Jack Crusher's do?

[member_removed]

Also it occurred to me... what's the one other time we saw people's eyes turning red like Jack Crusher's do?

I do believe it's the Pah-wraiths.

[Andrew NDB]

I do believe it's the Pah-wraiths.

Precisely.

[CyberCubed]

It's a real shame we'll never get any of the core DS9 cast back besides Major Kira at some point:

1. Avery Brooks lost his mind and doesn't want to act anymore so we'll never see Sisko again.

2. Odo's actor has unfortunately passed away and I don't feel like he should be recast.

3. Jadzia is dead in-series.

4. Nog's actor is dead in real life


So we're left with basically Major Kira, Bashir, O'Brien and Quark at most. And Jake Sisko, who would be likely to return if they ever want to use him.

[Andrew NDB]

I wouldn't rule out Brooks, especially if its not too big. And there's nothing online but rumors of alzheimers, nothing concrete and all probably just stemming from people spreading made up crap after that doc. I still think he was trolling Shatner in it. That or he just got done smoking a ton of weed before the cameras showed up.

[member_removed]

Speaking of the Par Wariths.

I read a theory that Vadic's handler could be Gul Dukat.

Nothing but a theory.

[Andrew NDB]

Speaking of the Par Wariths.

I read a theory that Vadic's handler could be Gul Dukat.

Nothing but a theory.

That's what I've been saying since we saw that face. It's that or random Iconians. And nothing about what they're doing here seems like they'd be bringing in randos.

[CyberCubed]

The problem is with only 3 eps left it feels like a waste to bring in any "big" character when you know the show is ending. Like what would be the point, a big reveal and then a character gets maybe 20 minutes or less of screentime before they have to kill them off or end the show?

The show is now overstuffed with characters and Deanna still has almost no screentime, and both Georgi and Data only just came back. Even Worf has been absent in a lot of eps because they can't fit everyone in. It's a real shame these are still only 10 ep seasons because this one would have benefited from being longer.

[Andrew NDB]

So maybe it is the Prophets and Pah Wraiths. There is an "ancient" voice in Jack according to Troi. Also we see the extent of Denise Crosby/Yar when she said she was in it and its basically nothing.

[ZariusTwo]

That was better than last week

We're now without a lead baddie, and still no answers. Liked the mementos Data had including Yar and Spot. Also happy to see Data's constant revisions are behind us and he's sharing more screen time with Geordi than Picard

[CyberCubed]

This really feels like the follow up to Nemesis we never got for 20 years till now. it's just a shame it took THIS long. Everyone was great in this episode, and I loved the tension in the beginning when Vadic was going to execute the bridge crew. I'm surprised how much Geordi and Data are knocking it out of the park.

The only thing that can ruin this now is of course if Jack's mysterious powers payoff is lame, or falls flat on its face. We still need to find out who the talking face was, and if they can stick the landing with these two aspects than this season will be great as a whole. I'm a little worried about the resolution to those aspects but I hope it's decent.

[Andrew NDB]

rQTZJr7tqxY

I'm with them. A few really dodgy choices lately but no biggie yet... but yeah, we're approaching a cliff, depending on how the last 2 episodes are handled. It could be a smorgasbord of the missing Dominion Fleet showing up, Iconians, Pah Wraith Gul Dukat, Data remote-controlling all the ships at the starship museum, Sisko returning to save the day, with Admiral Janeway presiding over the whole thig. And it could all be a huge mess.

[ZariusTwo]

Red Letter Media are a bunch of washed-out tired old geek farts with cringe boomer internet humour and they hate everything. That's their gimmick.

For a more balanced take, watch David Cullen's videos on the show. He enjoyed all of it (having seen all of it) but he still has nitpicks and things to say about the episodes faults.

He says fans will likely react to the big reveals next week with "...That's it?", but it doesn't hurt the show.

One issue I have with episode 8 and what Terry says in interviews about wanting to pass the torch from the last generation to the next

Is that the 'next generation' are seen s*itting their pants the whole episode while Vaddick picks them off, intimidates them, murders them etc. Other than the one guy who talks about his son and then swears loyalty to Starfleet rather than surrender Picard, the Titan crew are depicted at their weakest here. Even Shaw, a highlight of six episodes, has been relegated to the background, and he and Seven get into a pointlessly tempered and childish debate

That's the only criticism I have of this episode.

[ZariusTwo]

Final episodes of Picard will be screened in select IMAX theatres on April 19th

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-finale-imax-screenings/

[IMJ]

Final episodes of Picard will be screened in select IMAX theatres on April 19th

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-finale-imax-screenings/

That is very cool.....

[Andrew NDB]

Final episodes of Picard will be screened in select IMAX theatres on April 19th

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-finale-imax-screenings/

Wait... does that mean we don't get episode 9 this week? They'll hold 9 until 10?

[ZariusTwo]

If you look around reddit and social media, there are already massive leaks for episode ten

The Enterprise-D is back in all it's glory

The Borg also show up again, as does Shelby from the Best of Both Worlds, now she's an Admiral

[Andrew NDB]

So, *sigh*

Confirmed that it's looking like a big Borg and Locutus thing after all. Disappointing, but mostly because they already blew their wad with the Borg in season 1 by using and wasting them. And we knew the Enterprise-D was always going to be in this because Matalas openly said it would... but I think we all figured it'd just be flashbacks/dreams or holodeck trickery.

But OK. Season 3 has repaired most of the damage seasons 1 and 2 did already. Fixing the Borg back to actually scary wouldn't be the worst thing.

[ZariusTwo]

Bringing in the Borg again probably works best on a budgetary scale too, seeing as the sets would already exist from the previous seasons

[Andrew NDB]

If you look around reddit and social media, there are already massive leaks for episode ten

Seems like the leaks are from nine, not ten.

And yes.

The Borg have weaponized transporters to assimilate everyone who uses a transporter. The Changelings were just a means to an end and now they're useless. All of this season has been used to carefully bring back the Borg as a real threat. Alice Krige is back.

[ZariusTwo]

Seems like the leaks are from nine, not ten.

Right, I was quite glad of that. Season finale will be pretty straight forward I suspect, but it was still a lot of fun. I did cry for well over ten minutes.

Kind of annoyed that Shelby wound up killed by her crew and the Enterprise-F compromised. Also ticked off that Captain Shaw, the best new character in modern Trek, was killed off but at least he acknowledged Seven by her usual name.

Enterprise E has a mystery about it that is tied to Worf.

Alice is back, true, but she was represented by an out-of-focus back of the head shot. I wonder now that Jack's surrendered to her, that he'll speak with her voice when Picard confronts them?

[Andrew NDB]

It looks BAD for Shelby, as those were a couple of doozies, but I wouldn't count her out yet. And if she is dead, hey, it was a nice treat. They DO understand that admirals don't command starships, though, right?

There were a lot of people saying that was Alice Krige's voice in various of the Jack Crusher red door fever dreams over the past 8 episodes and I mostly poo-pooed them. Now I know they were definitely there, clues all along.

I dunno. I'm disappointed it's just the Borg because that was the simplest, stupidest explanation since the beginning of the show. "Oh, it's the Borg." But honestly it fits better when you watch it than imagining them trying to cram Pah Wraiths/Prophets stuff into the last 2 episodes.

[CyberCubed]

Save any DS9 continuation for the cast of that show. But yeah I kinds groaned seeing the Borg cube again. If this was the first season of the show it would be fine but we just had the previous 2 seasons focusing on this.

I assume any secondary or third tier character who shows up will always die now. Thankfully Tuvok should be spared as Tim Russ confirmed he appears in a second episode and we haven't see him yet. They won't kill off a main character.

I find it funny now all the young 20 year old actors were there to get taken over while the 50 and up crowd were all spared. 7 of 9 is the youngest of the old cast as she's only 55 in real life but I guess she just made it by

[Andrew NDB]

Predictions for the final episode?

Mine:

* Admiral Janeway will show up (I mean, she has to be there already, probably on Spacedock) and do something very helpful. And hell, she has her own bad blood with the Borg Queen.

* Tuvok -- the real Tuvok -- will show up and be OK. Maybe take out his own doppleganger.

* We will see surely at least 1 or 2 Enterprise-D sets. We have to, right? It will be a pretty ridiculous if we never leave the bridge. The ready room and the conference room, maybe? No way they'd rebuild Engineering.

* Borg Cubes will arrive.

* Jack (maybe with Data's help) will turn the tables on the Borg Queen and take control of the whole fleet, but for good, targeting the Borg Cubes. We'll see some of the Starfleet museum ships used, too, like Voyager and the Defiant and so on.

* There has to be at LEAST a couple of big cameos beyond just Janeway. Voyager is getting a lot of love so surely DS9 needs at least a little. O'Brien, at least? It won't be Barclay because he's a republican.

That's about all I foresee for now.

Now, what COULD happen, but I hope it doesn't happen:

* Hippie Borg Queen Jurati shows up and evens the odds. Ugh. I'm sure Matalas would make it not suck and it WOULD give some relevance to season 2 but... eugh, do we really want to do that?

Alice is back, true, but she was represented by an out-of-focus back of the head shot. I wonder now that Jack's surrendered to her, that he'll speak with her voice when Picard confronts them?

That's a little concerning, honestly. I just watched it again and realized she's just credited as "Voice of the Borg Queen." Would they not just credit her as "Borg Queen"? Especially if the plan is to see her in all of her glory in S03E10? Makes me worry that we won't even end up getting her in the costume at all.

Also, I tried to get IMAX tickets to the 4/19 showing of the final episode yesterday but they were long gone. Only playing in 1 city here in WA.

[member_removed]

So, *sigh*

Confirmed that it's looking like a big Borg and Locutus thing after all. Disappointing, but mostly because they already blew their wad with the Borg in season 1 by using and wasting them. And we knew the Enterprise-D was always going to be in this because Matalas openly said it would... but I think we all figured it'd just be flashbacks/dreams or holodeck trickery.

But OK. Season 3 has repaired most of the damage seasons 1 and 2 did already. Fixing the Borg back to actually scary wouldn't be the worst thing.
I find this kind of annoying, it makes season 2, really ****ing pointless. Which it was anyway. Shouldn’t Jurati be the new Borg Queen. Didn’t the ****ing Borg apply for Federation membership at the end of season 2!?!
I think the best option is just forget seasons 1 and 2 ever happened.
Hopefully we get Q, who, Best of Both worlds (even Scorpion) levels of scary.

At this point I’m happy to forget season 1 and 2 ever happened.

If you look around reddit and social media, there are already massive leaks for episode ten

The Enterprise-D is back in all it's glory
It really pisses me off that they can make the D like picture perfect, but the OG 1701 they have to spice up. And Klingons look like Klingons in Picard, Lower Decks and Prodigy, not ****ing Shakespearean Orcs

The Borg also show up again, as does Shelby from the Best of Both Worlds, now she's an Admiral


Right, I was quite glad of that. Season finale will be pretty straight forward I suspect, but it was still a lot of fun. I did cry for well over ten minutes.

Kind of annoyed that Shelby wound up killed by her crew and the Enterprise-F compromised. Also ticked off that Captain Shaw, the best new character in modern Trek, was killed off but at least he acknowledged Seven by her usual name.

Enterprise E has a mystery about it that is tied to Worf.

Alice is back, true, but she was represented by an out-of-focus back of the head shot. I wonder now that Jack's surrendered to her, that he'll speak with her voice when Picard confronts them?
In the Picard Novel Last Best Hope it’s confirmed Worf became Captain of the E after Picard took the promotion. No mention of him leaving Martok or his ambassador status (or Alexander)


I find it funny now all the young 20 year old actors were there to get taken over while the 50 and up crowd were all spared. 7 of 9 is the youngest of the old cast as she's only 55 in real life but I guess she just made it by

Damn, Jeri is looking as young as ever.

One episode left and I'm sure they can still **** their pants on the landing.

[CyberCubed]

They already said Jurati's Borg were a separate collective than the main Borg. Remember her Borg was also originally merged in the alternate timeline, while this Borg was last seen in Voyager's finale. They didn't really retcon anything from one season ago.

I don't think we'll be seeing Janeway at least not in person sadly. Tuvok will be seen for sure to let us know he's still alive

[Andrew NDB]

They already said Jurati's Borg were a separate collective than the main Borg. Remember her Borg was also originally merged in the alternate timeline, while this Borg was last seen in Voyager's finale. They didn't really retcon anything from one season ago.

Yeah, and we have no reason to believe Jurati's collective has ever even run into the real Borg collective. Also, it's only been around for less than 400 years (since Jurati was left in 2024). Honestly, better we just never speak of it again and never see her again, same as whatever that portal thing was at the end of season 2.

I don't think we'll be seeing Janeway at least not in person sadly. Tuvok will be seen for sure to let us know he's still alive

Oh no, we'll definitely see Janeway. They've mentioned her like 6 times already in this season alone and even mentioned specifically that she'd be front and center in heading up the Frontier Day festivities in an earlier episode... so she'd already be there.

I think we're going to get a big sequence where Jack/Data un-hacks the fleet and breaks everyone free of the Collective, giving them a chance to take back over their ships and command them against whatever Borg threat shows up. This is where we can see a lot of quick cameos from TNG, VOY, and DS9 alumni, I think. Captain Paris, Bashir and Ezri Dax, etc..

[ZariusTwo]

Another triumph for this season, it's cracked the streaming top ten, the first modern Trek to do so

https://trekmovie.com/2023/04/14/picard-becomes-first-star-trek-series-to-break-into-streaming-top-10-ranking/

Confirmation by Terry Matalas that the Borg Queen in this week's episode is the same one totalled by Admiral Janeway in Voyager's finale

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-borg-alice-krige-terry-matalas-comments/

[Andrew NDB]

As far as I'm concerned, the Alice Krige Borg Queen has always been THE Borg Queen. Even when the actress was unavailable to do the part on the few VOY episodes that she wasn't, that was still her. That wasn't like a different character. There isn't multiple Borg Queens until we hit STP season 2, and now we're messing around with alternate dimension Borg queens.

[CyberCubed]

Considering we saw the Borg Queen blow up three times as far as I remember (in First Contact, the first/second return in Voyager, and then the Voyager finale), I assume she immediately downloads her mind to another body before her ship explodes.

I assume this will be the last time though. Do we know the run-time for the last episode? I hope it's longer than 50 minutes (which is in reality shorter than you take out 2 minutes for recaps and 2 minutes for the ending credits).

[Andrew NDB]

Considering we saw the Borg Queen blow up three times as far as I remember (in First Contact, the first/second return in Voyager, and then the Voyager finale), I assume she immediately downloads her mind to another body before her ship explodes.

I assume this will be the last time though. Do we know the run-time for the last episode? I hope it's longer than 50 minutes (which is in reality shorter than you take out 2 minutes for recaps and 2 minutes for the ending credits).

It seems like the Borg Queen is probably still infected with what Future Janeway infected her with in the VOY finale. That's the thing. So the Borg Queen is probably more pissed at Janeway than Picard. Which only increases the odds that not only will Janeway show up, but will play a vital if not big role.

And yes, Matalas has said this last one will be at least a little longer than the others.

[member_removed]

Another triumph for this season, it's cracked the streaming top ten, the first modern Trek to do so

https://trekmovie.com/2023/04/14/picard-becomes-first-star-trek-series-to-break-into-streaming-top-10-ranking/

Confirmation by Terry Matalas that the Borg Queen in this week's episode is the same one totalled by Admiral Janeway in Voyager's finale

https://collider.com/star-trek-picard-season-3-borg-alice-krige-terry-matalas-comments/

Hopefully this is the evidence that Paramount need to give Terry Matalas free reign to make his "Legacy" project.



I've always wondered could you incapacitate the borg with say Ketracel White. If you injected the Queen would the whole collective become addicted?

The changelings were another interesting point, I always assumed that the Borg wouldn't be able assimilate the founders. I thought the Founders could just ooze their way around the nanoprobes.

[IMJ]

I don't think Janeway should show up at all here for several reasons....

1. This Borg "trilogy" (The Best of Both Worlds, First Contact and Picard S03) revolves around Picard's past assimilation as well as his relationship with the Queen. Interjecting Janeway's Borg experiences doesn't fit that thesis.
2. The show is called "Picard" and this season is about the coming together of the TNG crew. And now they are on the D of all places. So again, to thrust Janeway in narratively basically at all would be against that grain.
3. Any argument that other Voyager cast have appeared again doesn't fit the model. 7 was grandfathered in because she was a Star Trek regular who was brought onto the show from day one, and Tuvok was a only a relevant memberries cameo. If Janeway makes an appearance it should be no more than that.

If anything she should have a "Nemesis level" cameo as fan-service. Nothing more. Hell, narratively it would make more sense to have Sisko show up than Janeway due to his personal-biases against Picard from Wolf-359.

On another note, the return of the full Enterprise-D was both awesome and ridiculous. You're gonna tell me that Geordi rebuilt a Galaxy Class ship on his own, in a spacedock without Starfleet saying anything about it? Would've made more sense if they just took the saucer section out on the mission, or that they didn't just write the Enterprise-E out like they did. Don't get me wrong, seeing the ship was awesome, but it simply would've made more sense to have the saucer section floating there next to the decommissioned E and to have taken the E out.

The changelings were another interesting point, I always assumed that the Borg wouldn't be able assimilate the founders. I thought the Founders could just ooze their way around the nanoprobes.

Did I miss where they narratively explain the real relationship between the Borg and the Changelings or was it just say "the Borg were working with the Changelings". They explained Vadic was a Federation Science experiment gone wrong, but how did the Borg get involved? I was also left feeling that the only Changelings involved were the splinter-group that Vadic adapted - not the entire Great Link.

[newfan]

On another note, the return of the full Enterprise-D was both awesome and ridiculous. You're gonna tell me that Geordi rebuilt a Galaxy Class ship on his own, in a spacedock without Starfleet saying anything about it? Would've made more sense if they just took the saucer section out on the mission, or that they didn't just write the Enterprise-E out like they did. Don't get me wrong, seeing the ship was awesome, but it simply would've made more sense to have the saucer section floating there next to the decommissioned E and to have taken the E out.

.

Had Geordi said anything about having a little help and pulling a few strings or something it would have helped, but as you said, it was still awesome to see, bringing them all back in together and then the ship to finish it off. Definitely had a little of the feels seeing them all come together.

I did sit thinking that I should have known better at the end of season 1 when data was 'gone for good' but I didn't :lol: I'm glad that didn't remain the case.

[CyberCubed]

So if we get a spinoff series of this what do you expect? Shaw is gone. I can see 7 of 9, Geordi's daughters and Jack I guess as part of a new crew.

I think Picard, Riker, Troi, Beverly are all done after this. I can see Geordi, Data and Worf making guest appearances on a new show. Geordi especially if his daughters continue in a new series, and they just brought Data back assuming Brent Spiner wants to continue to play him. Worf feels oddly underused and would be good to see more.

What I would like is a new series to be a mix of stuff bringing in more DS9 and Voyager characters. Have the ship actually visit DS9 with Kira still in charge and Quark there and see how they changed. Bring in more Voyager characters like Tuvok even if it's just for small cameos. Would be nice to see Tom and B'elanna's half klingon daughter all grown up too.

[newfan]

Shame about Shaw, I mean I wasn't shocked but I had started to like his character in the end.

[Andrew NDB]

But Sisko's personal biases against Picard were resolved by the end of the first episode of DS9.



Did I miss where they narratively explain the real relationship between the Borg and the Changelings or was it just say "the Borg were working with the Changelings". They explained Vadic was a Federation Science experiment gone wrong, but how did the Borg get involved? I was also left feeling that the only Changelings involved were the splinter-group that Vadic adapted - not the entire Great Link.

It was explained that Vadic and her fellow POWs formed a splinter faction, then went out to see who they could woo to their cause from certain Changelings within the Dominion proper (though Vadic kind of made it sound like she was looking for more like lost Odos out there, wayward Changelings). It's just not clear how or where the Borg would have run into them to make their alliance.

I still want to know what gives with those Vadic henchmen. Changeling experiments? What's with the weird language?

Also, its possible this may end with the real Founders and Dominion showing up to tidy up their own mess... and we can end the show with a true alliance with the Dominion.

Had Geordi said anything about having a little help and pulling a few strings or something it would have helped, but as you said, it was still awesome to see, bringing them all back in together and then the ship to finish it off. Definitely had a little of the feels seeing them all come together.

Well, help or not we know TNG has tons of little helper drones to rebuild stuff. He even mentions some drones are loading up torpedoes. "Geordi rebuilding the Enterprise D for 20 years" doesn't mean he's been like sweating, moving around deck plates and wires himself.

[IMJ]

I did sit thinking that I should have known better at the end of season 1 when data was 'gone for good' but I didn't :lol: I'm glad that didn't remain the case.

OHhhh nooooo, man. Don't make any mistake about it - there was no long-term plan for season 1. Killing Data again, especially under the circumstances of the plot in season 1 was pure idiotic-intellectualism on the showrunners part.

Bringing Data back in season 3 was the easiest retcon possible. Technically after his program decompiled in the hologram in season 1, he should have been absolutely irretrievable, but the season 3 team just wrote around it and got it out of the way. Nothing redeems Picard seasons 1 and 2.

Shame about Shaw, I mean I wasn't shocked but I had started to like his character in the end.

I did too!

Well, help or not we know TNG has tons of little helper drones to rebuild stuff. He even mentions some drones are loading up torpedoes. "Geordi rebuilding the Enterprise D for 20 years" doesn't mean he's been like sweating, moving around deck plates and wires himself.

I am actually mostly curious if "drones" meant more empty-soul-androids (from season 1) or if "drones" means something like the Exo-Comps from TNG.

[Andrew NDB]

I assume "drones" means like the R2D2 units from Discuckery season 2. Which would behave like exocomps, yeah. If they had that in the 23rd century then they'd surely have much better stuff by the 25th.

[member_removed]

I don't think Janeway should show up at all here for several reasons....
If anything she should have a "Nemesis level" cameo as fan-service. Nothing more. Hell, narratively it would make more sense to have Sisko show up than Janeway due to his personal-biases against Picard from Wolf-359.
Janeway’s already got her own spinoff show, Give Prodigy a chance, it’s pretty good. Nowhere near as aggravating as the first two seasons of Picard.

On another note, the return of the full Enterprise-D was both awesome and ridiculous. You're gonna tell me that Geordi rebuilt a Galaxy Class ship on his own, in a spacedock without Starfleet saying anything about it? Would've made more sense if they just took the saucer section out on the mission, or that they didn't just write the Enterprise-E out like they did. Don't get me wrong, seeing the ship was awesome, but it simply would've made more sense to have the saucer section floating there next to the decommissioned E and to have taken the E out.
It's mentioned in Episode 1, that Geordi is in charge of the Fleet Museum. I can easily buy that he has the resources for starship restoration. I can also easily buy that they have a clean up crew for Prime directive violations where lost ships are cleaned up. Also you don’t want Romulans, Ferengi or other intergalactic powers combing over the wreck of the Federation Flag Ship.

Did I miss where they narratively explain the real relationship between the Borg and the Changelings or was it just say "the Borg were working with the Changelings". They explained Vadic was a Federation Science experiment gone wrong, but how did the Borg get involved? I was also left feeling that the only Changelings involved were the splinter-group that Vadic adapted - not the entire Great Link.
Worf mentions the splinter group, but that doesn’t fit with Vadic’s origin story. I think you need to really squeeze some head canon in. Such as Vadic was the only the experiment, she escaped, fled home to the gamma quadrant and joined up with splinter group.
How can Vadic die in the vacuum of space. In DS9 season 7 we meet Lars and he could exist in the Vacuum of space. I’ve got head canon that. Section 31 (if it was them, honestly who else would it be) wanted to Nerf the new breed of changelings to make them less dangerous and easier to control.


It was explained that Vadic and her fellow POWs formed a splinter faction, then went out to see who they could woo to their cause from certain Changelings within the Dominion proper (though Vadic kind of made it sound like she was looking for more like lost Odos out there, wayward Changelings). It's just not clear how or where the Borg would have run into them to make their alliance.
I don’t think it’s an alliance, Vadic always looked terrified when communicating with the “hand-com”. I think the Borg were always in charge.



I still want to know what gives with those Vadic henchmen. Changeling experiments? What's with the weird language?

I don’t think they were changelings, I mean Worf straight stabbed one. I guess they could have been munted Jem Ha’Dar. Bladed weapons were not effective against Odo. I think the Changelings were off doing espionage stuff. These were just heavies. Gotta use that head canon again.

[Andrew NDB]

Janeway’s already got her own spinoff show, Give Prodigy a chance, it’s pretty good.

Jeeze, man. I dunno. I watched like three of those suckers and couldn't move forward. It's just little alien kids in like an ongoing Guardians of the Galaxy motif, with the same look as Clone Wars. It didn't feel offensively bad like Lower Decks, but I didn't feel "Star Trek" in any fiber of it whatsoever.

It's mentioned in Episode 1, that Geordi is in charge of the Fleet Museum. I can easily buy that he has the resources for starship restoration.

Now, what I can't buy that is that the Bounty was just sitting there out in the open without even security patrols or anything with the fully functioning cloaking device.

Worf mentions the splinter group, but that doesn’t fit with Vadic’s origin story. I think you need to really squeeze some head canon in. Such as Vadic was the only the experiment, she escaped, fled home to the gamma quadrant and joined up with splinter group.

Right? What she said doesn't fit with what Worf said, exactly. Technically the Changeling POWs could just BE the splinter group, I guess. But she implied she'd been looking for and recruiting other Changelings somehow.

How can Vadic die in the vacuum of space.

That's an easy one. These aren't normal Changelings. They're mutants who create real organs and aren't immortal, like the other Changelings. Probably the vacuum of space effects them differently.

I don’t think they were changelings, I mean Worf straight stabbed one. I guess they could have been munted Jem Ha’Dar. Bladed weapons were not effective against Odo. I think the Changelings were off doing espionage stuff. These were just heavies. Gotta use that head canon again.

BUT! There is a blink and you miss it shot when Vadic's crew are aboard the bridge of the Titan. You see two forms beginning to shapeshift into being in one shot, then it cuts away. When it cuts back to there, now Vadic and one of the henchmen are standing there.

Also, when Riker was captured and said something like, "How much of that goo did they pour into you?" to one of the henchmen, wtf is he talking about? He's talking like that's a common and known practice by Changelings, pouring their "goo" into people. What does he mean? Does anyone have any clue?


What I would like is a new series to be a mix of stuff bringing in more DS9 and Voyager characters. Have the ship actually visit DS9 with Kira still in charge and Quark there and see how they changed. Bring in more Voyager characters like Tuvok even if it's just for small cameos. Would be nice to see Tom and B'elanna's half klingon daughter all grown up too.

It wouldn't be too hard to imagine like an event-driven series called Star Trek: Emissary. Like maybe the Prophets have been long-debating with themselves with what to do about the Dominion Fleet they "ate" and they decide to release it. Then chaos ensues! Sisko returns, lots of VOY and DS9 alumni show up. They really ought to do something like that while there's enough people who would still care about it.

The only thing, though... the sets! Can you imagine them rebuilding all or even some of the DS9 sets? That's be a Herculean task! And not cheap, for sure.

[ZariusTwo]

Jeeze, man. I dunno. I watched like three of those suckers and couldn't move forward. It's just little alien kids in like an ongoing Guardians of the Galaxy motif,

The premise of it is lifted from an old Nickelodeon 90s sci-fi kids show called "Space Cases", which was co-created by Trek novelist and comic book great Peter David. I'm shocked he didn't sue.

[ZariusTwo]

Some minor spoilers on how the finale sets up the potential Legacy series

Johnathan Frakes says

Nobody dies in the finale, Jack becomes a part of the bridge crew, Seven is a fully fledged Captain, the LaForge sisters will be assigned to serve together, and Worf's son Alexander will be involved too, so I presume that's another cameo confirmed. Shaw is mentioned too

https://trekmovie.com/2023/04/15/jonathan-frakes-talks-tng-bridge-reunion-picard-finale-and-how-it-sets-up-star-trek-legacy/

[IMJ]

The premise of it is lifted from an old Nickelodeon 90s sci-fi kids show called "Space Cases", which was co-created by Trek novelist and comic book great Peter David. I'm shocked he didn't sue.

Peter David was the guy who established the entire backstory regarding Riker and Troi's meeting as well as the explanation of the entire "Imzadi" thing. It was awesome....

It's really cool to be able to talk about Star Trek again in any way of interest, let alone positively.

[Andrew NDB]

It is, actually. And obviously this is tempered expectations Trek... beyond that moment at the end of episode 4 with the space babies, this is still a far cry from real, quality Trek in the way it was supposed to be. But it's good in the sense that this is good Movie Trek in terms of the quality of the good movies in the bunch. Like, you can pick the best episodes of TV Trek in 50 years and they are nothing like the movies. In the past, we'd have awesome shows, little morality plays, that would make us think. And every once in a while... a movie! And it wouldn't quite be Star Trek, but it'd be Star Trek on the big screen with bombastic stuff. And it'd be fine because at the end of the day... the next episode of X is in like a week.

Seeing some rumors that I kind of think are BS but mayyyyybe...

That the Borg Queen will physically be Future Janeway.

[ZariusTwo]

A review of episode ten was uploaded by the New York Observer a day or so early, they took it down, but I did catch a couple of spoilers

What Frakes said in his interview was true. Jack survives, and he, the Laforge sisters and the Titan crew all serve under Seven of Nine's command.

The Titan is rechristened the new U.S.S Enterprise

And the mid-credits

Q returns

[member_removed]

So if Legacy will feature the kids of 90's trek.

Will we see the return of Janeway and Paris's Salamander triplets?

[CyberCubed]

Is the actress who played Naomi Wildman still in the industry?

[Andrew NDB]

A review of episode ten was uploaded by the New York Observer a day or so early, they took it down, but I did catch a couple of spoilers

What Frakes said in his interview was true. Jack survives, and he, the Laforge sisters and the Titan crew all serve under Seven of Nine's command.

The Titan is rechristened the new U.S.S Enterprise

And the mid-credits

Q returns

Interesting.

Does that mean the registry number changes to 1701-G? Also Q... eh. OK. But how and under what circumstances? DeLancie was a little coy about having shot stuff for seasons 2 and 3 at the same time way earlier.

Should be all the spoilers way early because it's going to be in theaters a day earlier than it premieres on TV.

Is the actress who played Naomi Wildman still in the industry?

Scarlett Pomers is still around but hasn't done any acting since Reba.

[member_removed]

Interesting.

Does that mean the registry number changes to 1701-G? Also Q... eh. OK. But how and under what circumstances? DeLancie was a little coy about having shot stuff for seasons 2 and 3 at the same time way earlier.

Should be all the spoilers way early because it's going to be in theaters a day earlier than it premieres on TV

I would imagine so. Apocryphal media stated the Enterprise - A, used to be the Yorktown 1717. I would hope so..

Scarlett Pomers is still around but hasn't done any acting since Reba.


The O'Brien Kids could also be another possibility.

[Andrew NDB]

Didn't like it. They ran out of money and it wasn't much of anything. I complained about VOY's ending scenes and this is even worse. If they wanted to do the THE BORG then they needed to do that. What they did was the same as what the last season did with the mercenary fake Borgs in Chateau Picard. Only now they have Millennium Falcon bits running through the 2nd Death Star to blow up the core... except it's the giant Enterprise-D and Borg cubes don't have spaces like that. This is so stupid.

Enterprise D bridge, yay! So, so stupid. Not sure about this Matalas guy anymore.

[ZariusTwo]

Redemption for Deanna at the comms of the Enterprise! I choked up when Riker used 'Imzadi'

Power of Love resolution as I expected for Picard and Jack. Very conventional wrap-up with Jeaun-Luc plugging himself into the collective to retrieve Jack, respecting his choice to remain and willing to stay with him which of course snaps him out of his funk.

I sort of wish Jack had wilfully submitted to the Queen to act as a trojan virus, but maybe it's better that he did just sort of surrender, otherwise it'd have been a repeat of Endgame

Speaking of Endgame, the Queen went on a spiel about how she'd been run down and blaming Picard for it all, but I'm like "Picard's name isn't Admiral Janeway", and...alas, no Kate Mulgrew cameo. It should have been her giving Seven the promotion.

We also find out Shaw was always going to promote Seven before the Titan left spacedock. So retroactively, he didn't have a journey of accepting her.

Worf was way, way too jokey. I felt like I was watching Red Dwarf.

Riker didn't do anything on that cube.

Matales names a system after himself, the narcissist. And we get an allusion to "Star Trek: Legacy"

I was so hoping Seven would say "that way" like Kirk, but that would be someone else's legacy. I like how we'll never know what she said to mark her own unwritten chapter.

Of course it ends with the poker game.

The trial never ends....see you...out there Jack.

I suppose from what he says here, Q here is from a different point in time and was aware of his death in the future

episode rating: 7 out of 9...I mean, 7 out of 10. A bit too heartwarming and you never felt Earth was in any danger.

Season rating: 8 out of 10. Lived up to it's hype for the most part, but the threat levels diminished towards the end and it became all too comforting

[Andrew NDB]

I sort of wish Jack had wilfully submitted to the Queen to act as a trojan virus, but maybe it's better that he did just sort of surrender, otherwise it'd have been a repeat of Endgame

It kind of was a repeat of Endgame. Future Janeway and the Borg Queen in a room, 1 small, dark set, talking to each other for a few scenes and then go boom. Same thing, except with Picard and Jack instead of Future Janeway.

Speaking of Endgame, the Queen went on a spiel about how she'd been run down and blaming Picard for it all, but I'm like "Picard's name isn't Admiral Janeway"

Yeah, that was weird. Why in the world would she ascribe that to Picard?

and...alas, no Kate Mulgrew cameo. It should have been her giving Seven the promotion.

Lame. And yeah, as soon as Tuvok pushed the holoprojector toward Seven across the table I thought for sure "Eh, oh OK, here comes the Janeway cameo. It'll be a little holographic message, at least." But instead it's just Captain Shaw, undoing his respect arc with Seven.

Also, what's with holograms looking so much sh**tier than they did three decades prior?

Worf was way, way too jokey. I felt like I was watching Red Dwarf.

There was one or two one-liners from him this episode that were absolute cringe.

Riker didn't do anything on that cube.

You can tell the script probably called for like a big grappling, shootout battle with the Borg inside the cube like in First Contact but they only had money for the two Borg we got (the rest of the money all went to Discovery and Strange New Worlds again, clearly). That's why you had Worf falling asleep on the bridge later on without it making any sense, because he was supposed to be winded from like a strenuous battle with 20+ Borg.

I was so hoping Seven would say "that way" like Kirk, but that would be someone else's legacy. I like how we'll never know what she said

I really hate this whole cutesy "What's your catchphrase gonna be, Captain? You know, to order us out?" thing. It began a couple of seasons ago on Discovery and it was as retarded and juvenile there as it is here. It looks like they're going to do it on SNW with Spock now, too.

Season rating: 8 out of 10. Lived up to it's hype for the most part, but the threat levels diminished towards the end and it became all too comforting

It didn't deliver. They made the stakes huge and the players vast but in the end it all felt small, tiny and cheap. It would be better to just stop at episode 9's conclusion and be left wondering what could be than this, I think.

So there WERE a lot of intended cameos and other appearances that there wasn't enough budget for:

https://www.slashfilm.com/1263923/picard-season-3-originally-featured-captain-janeway-ro-laren-survived/

[IMJ]

I loved it. It was TNG fan service all the way through. My only real gripe was the Enterprise-D rather than the E but even that is just one of those things that you go on about when you love something, not when you hate it.

I loved all of the epilogs too, although I think they could've found a way to make them more seamless rather than a series of disjointed short stories.

But in the end I loved the season and it was great that everyone had their own unique "Avengers" moment to do something.

[Vegita-San]

did they actually air this finale in theaters?

[CyberCubed]

Every character had their moment and it makes you realize how far a lot of these characters have come since their introduction. Picard has a family, Geordi has daughters and fleet museum, Riker and Troi have a family, Data is ALIVE and a mix of his previous personalities, Worf is old man Worf, and 7 of 9 has become a captain. The heartfelt moments were really good I thought.

More importantly this should be the permanent end of the Borg for good this time? Janeway's virus totaled them for 20 years since they last appeared, the Borg Queen was barely on life support having to work with Vadic and the changelings and now she's dead again. Jurati's Borg if they ever return are an off-shoot and "good" Borg so they don't count. This ended a storyline started 35 years ago and continued through TNG, First Contact and Voyager so it finally concluded.

I thought the action scenes were good and while the "inside of the Borg cube" scenes are pretty much the same as every time they went inside a Borg cube or met the queen, it was fine for me. Last thoughts is it's nice to see Tuvok and Q's reveal at the end was another nice surprise.

Funnily enough of all the things they tried to undo or retcon from the first two seasons of Picard that people hated (undoing Data's death, basically ignoring the good Borg or Q passing on), the one thing they didn't change is Picard is still in a robotic body and his real body is dead. I thought them retrieving his old body would find some way to transfer his mind back there, but I guess he's still in the robot shell. I mean I guess it doesn't really matter, but Picard is still half-robot. Funny how they left that as it is.

[Andrew NDB]

I watched it again. I find myself a little bit more charitable a second time around.

I loved it. It was TNG fan service all the way through. My only real gripe was the Enterprise-D rather than the E but even that is just one of those things that you go on about when you love something, not when you hate it.

I personally liked the E way better than the D, and was excited to see what the E would look like leading up to First Contact and was not disappointed. That said, unveiling the E in this show in the way they did wouldn't have nearly had the same fanfare or impact as the D.

I loved all of the epilogs too, although I think they could've found a way to make them more seamless rather than a series of disjointed short stories.

It was The Return of the King, for sure.

More importantly this should be the permanent end of the Borg for good this time? Janeway's virus totaled them for 20 years since they last appeared, the Borg Queen was barely on life support having to work with Vadic and the changelings and now she's dead again. Jurati's Borg if they ever return are an off-shoot and "good" Borg so they don't count. This ended a storyline started 35 years ago and continued through TNG, First Contact and Voyager so it finally concluded.

I'm a bit conflicted about it. So now there's no real Borg anywhere now, not even in Delta Quadrant, and this is their finale? Without really even seeing them at all, barely? Like, now they couldn't even show up in Star Trek: Legacy or something else down the line without major explanation. All we have left is Jurati's hippie group and nobody wants that.

Funnily enough of all the things they tried to undo or retcon from the first two seasons of Picard that people hated (undoing Data's death, basically ignoring the good Borg or Q passing on), the one thing they didn't change is Picard is still in a robotic body and his real body is dead. I thought them retrieving his old body would find some way to transfer his mind back there, but I guess he's still in the robot shell. I mean I guess it doesn't really matter, but Picard is still half-robot. Funny how they left that as it is.

Matalas basically fixed everything that seasons 1 and 2 messed up with Star Trek. Bringing back Data convolutedly just to kill him off again needlessly... fixed. Starfleet.... fixed. Picard being an android... fixed/made more palatable. Seven of Nine... fixed. Picard getting respect... fixed. Riker and Troi's situation... fixed. Q dying... fixed (or at least circumvented and made not a big deal). The Borg... fixed, but then exterminated.

We still don't know how the Borg first ran into these rogue Changelings. We understand the "why" but not the "how" or the "where." Also, who was the captain of the Intrepid?

did they actually air this finale in theaters?

It did, in like 10 cities. Only in ONE showing on ONE day. As soon as I read about it I looked into getting tickets in Seattle but they were already sold out.

The O'Brien Kids could also be another possibility.

At a certain point, though, it's going to be really odd to imagine all these TNG kids ending up on the same ship, if that's the plan. Picard's son, Geordi's daughters, O'Brien's kids, I've heard Worf's son Alexander being mentioned as a possibility, Riker and Troi's daughter in a few years, etc..

[CyberCubed]

Don't forget he broke up 7 of 9 and Raffi as a couple. At first I thought Raffi was just undercover when she said, "my girlfriend left me" on that planet, but absolutely nothing in the rest of the episodes indicated they were still together. Even now with Raffi as her first officer, there's no implied romance anymore.

[Andrew NDB]

Don't forget he broke up 7 of 9 and Raffi as a couple. At first I thought Raffi was just undercover when she said, "my girlfriend left me" on that planet, but absolutely nothing in the rest of the episodes indicated they were still together. Even now with Raffi as her first officer, there's no implied romance anymore.

I thought for sure they were saving a big kiss/makeout thing for the finale. Turns out nope!

Although what I'm curious about is... eh... Picard and Crusher. So they had a kid 24 years ago and tried out a relationship, then she ran away when she found out she was pregnant. So now what, now that the cat is out of the bag and Picard knows? Will Picard and Crusher resume whatever relationship they had, or both continue basically being asexual old people? They seemed rather cold with one another.

[IMJ]

Ehhhh Raffi and 7's unnecessary gay love I'm sure will be a point of tension on "Legacy". Eventually a point will be made to show 7 and Raffi's husband coming together in a new familial understanding or some nonsense.

[CyberCubed]

Star Trek Legacy if it happens will basically be Star Trek 7 of 9, so I assume a lot of Voyager characters will cameo in the show like Tuvok over the series. Janeway would definitely show up finally in person if the series gets made.

I quite enjoyed Geordi's daughters so I'd like to see more of them as well, and whatever they do with Q and Jack.

[IMJ]

I quite enjoyed Geordi's daughters so I'd like to see more of them as well, and whatever they do with Q and Jack.

YEESSSSsss! Absolutely....

[newfan]

I thought Q was dying previously, but, it's Q... or I missed something.

The ship was D for obvious reasons, for that I am glad they chose it.

Really cool seeing them altogether, I think Wesley should have been saved for a brief apperance there rather than last season but I can see it would get in the way of Picard/Beverly/Jack, I guess?

So, how hypethetial is the spin off series idea? like hinted or being actually considered?

[Andrew NDB]

Ehhhh Raffi and 7's unnecessary gay love I'm sure will be a point of tension on "Legacy". Eventually a point will be made to show 7 and Raffi's husband coming together in a new familial understanding or some nonsense.

You know it will. I'm telling you, "Legacy" could be a "be careful what you wish for" scenario. We're not even sure what such a show would resemble. Would Kurtzman even allow it to be about exploration at all, particularly when TPTB feel like SNW is scratching that itch (it's not)?

I thought Q was dying previously, but, it's Q... or I missed something.

Given his lines there it's implied that yes, he did die but it hasn't happened yet to him. i.e., season 2 Q was end of the road Q. Here, he's a little younger at least. Time is meaningless to a Q.

So, how hypethetial is the spin off series idea? like hinted or being actually considered?

Sounds like... Matalas has hit pitch ready for a while now and he's waiting for the green light to lay it on the table.

[ZariusTwo]

They seemed rather cold with one another.

They kind of always were a little too 'formal' with the other even when they flirted in TNG.

I kind of like to think they got back together, Jack put a photo of them up in his quarters at the end, even though they were younger in it.

[Andrew NDB]

-WV4w4qxmZY

[CyberCubed]

While it's inevitable, it's a shame Jeri Ryan has noticeably aged so much. I respect her for not getting work done on her face like so many celebs, but if you pay close attention to her eyes and face she's noticeably more bony now. It's also noticeable blonde women tend to age faster for some reason.

God why do women have to age. She still looks great for a 50+ year old woman but by the time she's 60 she'll be done. Why can't people stay young and beautiful forever.

[Andrew NDB]

It's also noticeable blonde women tend to age faster for some reason.

Not as bad as a lot of red headed ladies, for some reason. Jeri is fine. Even Ro Laren looked OK except for her hands.

[IMJ]

They kind of always were a little too 'formal' with the other even when they flirted in TNG.

I kind of like to think they got back together, Jack put a photo of them up in his quarters at the end, even though they were younger in it.

I think part of that too is that they had no chemistry in real life. They are both good actors but they are the poster children for two people who had no real romantic chemistry to bring to the screen.

As evident by the fact that 99% of the time that they hinted at it, it came off as more of a deeply emotional friendship.

[CyberCubed]

Gates Mcfadden being 74 years old blows my mind. When I was a kid, 70+ year olds were old grannies who could barely move without their cane or walkers. She looks very good for her age but more importantly she doesn't "act" old and still feels like she has some energy to her. I also think her hair is great with mix of gray and dark hair, it's the best thing she did with her hairstyle.

It's easy to forgot how old these actors are in real life now. I was a kid when TNG aired so to me they were always "adults" but now I am the same age they were when TNG was airing and now they're 30+ years older than that. The passage of time blows my mind.

[Andrew NDB]

I just peeked at some old Generations stuff and remembered how super cute they did up Troi. Also in First Contact. Then I looked at Picard season 3. She still looks OK but... what's with these huge bangs now that even go over her eyes? They kind of consume her this season. Like maybe she was wanting to hide forehead wrinkles or something, but I really don't think she needed that.

[CyberCubed]

It's a shame women tend to age so much faster than men. Like Jonathan Frakes is 70 years old, he's old, but he still looks good and distinguished. As long as a man takes care of their health and stays fit, they can still look good into their 70's.

Women just tend to completely fall apart after they turn 40, and then again after 50-60+. It's such a shame the prime age for women seems to be 20-35 and after that it's all downhill.

[Sumac]

Jonathan Frakes is 70 years old
What!? I thought he was like 50+...
WOW.

[IMJ]

Gates Mcfadden being 74 years old blows my mind. When I was a kid, 70+ year olds were old grannies who could barely move without their cane or walkers.

I know exactly what you mean. I think this a lot. I mean - granted - the camera and cuts and takes make a lot of things possible that aren't happening in real life. But still....

[Sumac]

It's easy to forgot how old these actors are in real life now. I was a kid when TNG aired so to me they were always "adults" but now I am the same age they were when TNG was airing and now they're 30+ years older than that. The passage of time blows my mind.
This stuff ****s up with my mind all the time, like most of the time I fail to recognize that some actors from my favorite movies are twice as older as I thought they were.

[IMJ]

This stuff ****s up with my mind all the time, like most of the time I fail to recognize that some actors from my favorite movies are twice as older as I thought they were.

Yeah man... I mean Frakes as Riker was close to my age now when he played him in Nemesis.

[CyberCubed]

I mean this goes for any show or movie, but a lot of the biggest actors were only in their 20's or early 30's when they had their biggest roles in movies and TV shows from the 80's and 90's.

Most of us are now older in real life than these actors were at the time they had their biggest roles.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah man... I mean Frakes as Riker was close to my age now when he played him in Nemesis.

It's pretty crazy to think about it in those terms. I don't want to do the math in many of those instances.

[IMJ]

It's pretty crazy to think about it in those terms. I don't want to do the math in many of those instances.

It's even worse when you consider whatever you have going on in your life versus the experiences, traveling, on-camera face-time and everything else that an actor has at your current age. Which is part of the "admiration of acting" that, ironically, makes actors so damn insipid.

It's like - this air of respect for the life they are living combined with this anger that these fools make so much money and have so many life experiences essentially for the lowest form of human production in society - standing around and playing pretend. It's a living irony.

And so by my age now, huge star or not Frakes had made several movies, been on a successful T.V. show, been a Director, had these cross-border friendships, and then all of the things that come with those experiences. Compare that to whatever your work history is and have going on now by comparison.

It's maddening because by that comparison the guy's culminating total is so much greater than non-actors yet at the same time he hasn't truly done $#!(. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

I mean Sarah Michelle Gellar was only 19-25 when she starred as Buffy, the biggest hit of her life. Imagine "peaking" at 25 since sadly Sarah Michelle Gellar never really had many big hits after say 2003 besides maybe those Scooby Doo movies, and nothing since. I mean she did voice April in the 4th TMNT movie in 2007, but nobody other than us TMNT fans will remember that. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

"Regeneration." A short fan film that isn't actually a fan film... it's made by the Roddenberry folks:

R0U-O7f53kg

[ZariusTwo]

I mean Sarah Michelle Gellar was only 19-25 when she starred as Buffy, the biggest hit of her life. Imagine "peaking" at 25 since sadly Sarah Michelle Gellar never really had many big hits after say 2003 besides maybe those Scooby Doo movies, and nothing since. I mean she did voice April in the 4th TMNT movie in 2007, but nobody other than us TMNT fans will remember that. :lol:

And she was also the worst thing about Masters of the Universe: Revelation

[IMJ]

"Regeneration." A short fan film that isn't actually a fan film... it's made by the Roddenberry folks:

R0U-O7f53kg

:teek: OMG

[Andrew NDB]

Sad to think it will be at least 2 years from now -- if ever -- that there will be "Good Trek" to talk about again.

(that's 2 years, assuming Star Trek: Legacy is greenlit tomorrow)

[Andrew NDB]

Frakes still wants an episode of TNG pulled from all media:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/frakes-still-wants-star-trek-tng-ep-pulled/

[CyberCubed]

That episode is pretty boring/terrible like a lot of early season 1 eps, but removing it entirely is pointless.

[Vegita-San]

let me guess. the one with the non binary person clearly stating she's female and non binary is ********?

[Andrew NDB]

let me guess. the one with the non binary person clearly stating she's female and non binary is ********?

No, it's the pseudo alien Africans one.

[IMJ]

Frakes still wants an episode of TNG pulled from all media:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/frakes-still-wants-star-trek-tng-ep-pulled/

That's a helluva virtue signal on his part. He can put it out there and be safe from the mob for saying it, but whether or not it gets done has no impact on him either way.

[IMJ]

Anyone who bought Picard season 3 on disc can now order a replacement disc to fix the missing CGI panning shot of the Enterprise-D during "The Last Generation" episode.

Discs can be ordered here (https://phe-physical-consumer-support.imoxiemedia.com/).

[Autbot_Benz]

Since this fits in this thread. Patrick Stewart's Memoir is out This Tuesday. Aptly titled Making it So

https://i.imgur.com/aDRIlU9.jpg

I am sure some good Star Trek chapters on playing Jean Luc in both TNG and Picard in it.