TMNT #15. Preview/Discussion

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I do wonder how the main plot will move from Slash to Krang and the Dimension X adventure.

I'm wondering about this, too... this also seems to be a very different take on the Fugitoid than past takes (which for me include that somewhat comic, ridiculous robot from the future, Big Macc I think was his name?). Anyway, I was disappointed in this issue because it seemed more like a transition issue than anything and I like the issues that "pay out." It is an interesting take on Slash, one that makes logical sense but is still different from what we've seen from that character thus far. I have a feeling that next issue will be great since that issue will be the pay out.

[Metropoliskid41]

I really don't see Slash dying unless he's impaled on something. The turtles & Splinter are reluctant to kill Shredder, their mortal enemy who killed them all once, I don't see them going from reluctantly being on a kill Shredder mission that breaks their non lethal violence code to killing any tough villain they fight. I think they're going to have to use their teamwork to outsmart him, maybe temporarily beat him, knock him out and lock him up in the storm cellar, then get master Splinter and come back to find him gone & track him to Krangs HQ where they're transported to Dimension X. Or have Slash defeat them all, drag them back to Krang's where they recover (maybe they strategically lose to find out where Slash comes from?) Only to awake, attack Krang in his stronghold and get teleported to Dimension X in the process.

I think Slash has too much potential to be offed so quickly, and like I said I don't see the turtles going from reluctant killers to just killing every villain they face. That'd be out of character in my opinion.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Metropoliskid41

I really don't see Slash dying unless he's impaled on something. The turtles & Splinter are reluctant to kill Shredder, their mortal enemy who killed them all once, I don't see them going from reluctantly being on a kill Shredder mission that breaks their non lethal violence code to killing any tough villain they fight. I think they're going to have to use their teamwork to outsmart him, maybe temporarily beat him, knock him out and lock him up in the storm cellar, then get master Splinter and come back to find him gone & track him to Krangs HQ where they're transported to Dimension X. Or have Slash defeat them all, drag them back to Krang's where they recover (maybe they strategically lose to find out where Slash comes from?) Only to awake, attack Krang in his stronghold and get teleported to Dimension X in the process.

I think Slash has too much potential to be offed so quickly, and like I said I don't see the turtles going from reluctant killers to just killing every villain they face. That'd be out of character in my opinion.

I feel like it could go either way, but when I was reading, it definitely felt like the whole "Destroy Shredder Manifesto" related to "what we must do to survive," and the villain in the issue just happens to be trying to kill them. Maybe this is the story arc where they begin to accept that sometimes killing is unavoidable in order to survive, which helps them ultimately accept their mission to destroy the Shredder. While they have honor, it is a bit naive and unrealistic for the point of the story to be that you can avoid encounters with enemies who are trying to kill you by constantly locking them in the storm cellar... Not exactly the winning war strategy. It's probably more heroic and mature to accept hard truths.

[odupianist]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Not sure how I feel about Mikey's whining about Shredder, but he'll easily change his tune if Shredder goes too far.

I read this more of he wants to do more than just focus on the Shredder aspect. I was kind of getting hints of the Turtle Titan characteristic in him when he was whining about Shredder. That's just how it came across to me though.

[Slade]

Pretty decent read all I really got right now.

[Metropoliskid41]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

I feel like it could go either way, but when I was reading, it definitely felt like the whole "Destroy Shredder Manifesto" related to "what we must do to survive," and the villain in the issue just happens to be trying to kill them. Maybe this is the story arc where they begin to accept that sometimes killing is unavoidable in order to survive, which helps them ultimately accept their mission to destroy the Shredder. While they have honor, it is a bit naive and unrealistic for the point of the story to be that you can avoid encounters with enemies who are trying to kill you by constantly locking them in the storm cellar... Not exactly the winning war strategy. It's probably more heroic and mature to accept hard truths.

I get what you're saying and I agree, obviously it would be easier and more realistic to just kill Slash. The Mirage Turtles would do it no doubt, but these aren't the Mirage turtles. I believe how they've been portrayed thus far they won't kill him. Would it make it easier for the turtles? Most definitely! But then I think we'll get a Master Splinter "when given a choice always take the harder of the 2 paths." Splinter wants them to live a peaceful existence, and he thought long & hard over having to change that view to kill Shredder. Saki has killed them all once before and they were still hesitant to kill him to prevent history from repeating itself. They aren't taking killing lightly, I really don't think they go from that to killing slash because hens after them. That's 14 issues of the ongoing + micro series issues of characterization gone out the window. How Slash any different than Hob wanting to kill them? They didn't kill Hob, so I don't see them killing Slash. But we'll see what #16 brings.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Metropoliskid41

I get what you're saying and I agree, obviously it would be easier and more realistic to just kill Slash. The Mirage Turtles would do it no doubt, but these aren't the Mirage turtles. I believe how they've been portrayed thus far they won't kill him. Would it make it easier for the turtles? Most definitely! But then I think we'll get a Master Splinter "when given a choice always take the harder of the 2 paths." Splinter wants them to live a peaceful existence, and he thought long & hard over having to change that view to kill Shredder. Saki has killed them all once before and they were still hesitant to kill him to prevent history from repeating itself. They aren't taking killing lightly, I really don't think they go from that to killing slash because hens after them. That's 14 issues of the ongoing + micro series issues of characterization gone out the window. How Slash any different than Hob wanting to kill them? They didn't kill Hob, so I don't see them killing Slash. But we'll see what #16 brings.

One could say it's harder to decide to take a life to save another life, and others may say it's harder to risk your life for ideals. I think people could argue either way is heroic or necessary. There is a difference between intending to kill someone, and being at that very moment. If Slash is literally hunched over Leo with a killing blow ready, and he is so strong that he won't respond to anything but a lethal blow in kind, that's a kind of choice that may be placed in front of the turtles that we haven't seen just yet. Obviously I don't know what's going to happen in future issues, but I don't think that if they do come to that path and decide to save their brother over preserving peaceful values, it means all the characterization is out the window. What has been explored so far is what they may or may not be willing to do for their family. Either outcome is an exploration of that. It's not about the right answer, but the fact that people have differing views (as we may have) on tough questions like these. If you used to believe in something but decided you were wrong, does that mean you are acting out of character? Or that everything you believed before was a farce? I don't think so. You make choices; that's what we have that define us. Whether or not the turtles decide to use lethal force is something learned about themselves, which I think is the point of the exploration of this whole issue.

[Azrael Macool]

Yeah, that's pretty Mich why I think they will kill Slash... Not because they want to, but because it is necessary. I would still like him to live though

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Metropoliskid41

I get what you're saying and I agree, obviously it would be easier and more realistic to just kill Slash.

Why would they, though? IDW Slash has barely even hurt anybody.

[Toby Barrett]

He ate all those pets.

[LeoNerdo]

Just got and read this issue today! I've been pretty critical of the series in the past, but I re-read every issue + all the micros over the past few days and really enjoyed myself. The story flows so much better when you have another issue in your hands right after you finish one.

Like most everyone else I enjoyed this issue. Slash is awesome, not much on character, but an awesome design. He looks like a giant standing on that staircase. Kudos to Mr. Kuhn. If Slash is killed maybe that leaves the door open for Tokka down the road? Maybe Tokka and Rahzar are those failed experiments that were stored next to Slash at Stockgen. Not very likely(?) but who knows... Next up: Annual!

[MikeandRaph87]

Speaking of who the other mutants are logically Leatherhead would be next. It seems a bit odd to me atleast that a turtle would be conditioned to hunt other turtles. A crocodile is a natural predator of a turtle and it would seem Leatherhead would be conditioned to hunt shellbacks and pop up in a handful of issues after Slash's inital story has played out and the Dimension X/Turtles And Space happens not ot mention the Leo as Shredder's number are all played out.

What if the third batch of micros kick off with a Baxter Stockman issue that will explain the experiments at Stock Gen from his prospective getting into his inital involvement with being bankrolled by Krang and why the five turtles and rat were being experimetnted with and what others were also experimented on and each experiments (intial) purpose. perhaps revealing Leatherhead in the process? Okay,maybe I am reaching but I am trying to make an educated guess as to what is next on that plot thread. I am very eager to know how many experiements there were and what character may be awaiting after Slash's surprise appearance.

On the plot switch front,could Slash be talked down and the turtles find out through him about what Baxter Stockman is up to which lead them to his location and thus Krang who traps them in Dimension X(temporarily of course)? Its about the only way I can think of that can make the plot speed up to get to the Krang confrontation and subsequent Dimension adventure.

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Speaking of who the other mutants are logically Leatherhead would be next. It seems a bit odd to me atleast that a turtle would be conditioned to hunt other turtles. A crocodile is a natural predator of a turtle and it would seem Leatherhead would be conditioned to hunt shellbacks and pop up in a handful of issues after Slash's inital story has played out and the Dimension X/Turtles And Space happens not ot mention the Leo as Shredder's number are all played out.

What if the third batch of micros kick off with a Baxter Stockman issue that will explain the experiments at Stock Gen from his prospective getting into his inital involvement with being bankrolled by Krang and why the five turtles and rat were being experimetnted with and what others were also experimented on and each experiments (intial) purpose. perhaps revealing Leatherhead in the process? Okay,maybe I am reaching but I am trying to make an educated guess as to what is next on that plot thread. I am very eager to know how many experiements there were and what character may be awaiting after Slash's surprise appearance.

On the plot switch front,could Slash be talked down and the turtles find out through him about what Baxter Stockman is up to which lead them to his location and thus Krang who traps them in Dimension X(temporarily of course)? Its about the only way I can think of that can make the plot speed up to get to the Krang confrontation and subsequent Dimension adventure.

you make some valid points and i'd have to agree with you on the leatherhead part. he does seem the most likely to be one of those mutants in the other two tubes. given what we know of his mirage origins and how close we are approaching to Turtles in Space story arc... it's almost certain (speculatively of course) that he's one of them.

however... while i like your suggestions on the micro-series... not everyone will like the idea of having a "baxter's freak of the month" batch of micro-series. i personally like the idea and think it's the most likely to happen. i'd love a to see a leatherhead micro by the way. but if they do plan on killing slash off for the sake of the "kill to survive" storyline (which i think is very important)... i don't think slash will survive long enough to make it to the next batch of micros.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Lampy

you make some valid points and i'd have to agree with you on the leatherhead part. he does seem the most likely to be one of those mutants in the other two tubes. given what we know of his mirage origins and how close we are approaching to Turtles in Space story arc... it's almost certain (speculatively of course) that he's one of them.

however... while i like your suggestions on the micro-series... not everyone will like the idea of having a "baxter's freak of the month" batch of micro-series. i personally like the idea and think it's the most likely to happen. i'd love a to see a leatherhead micro by the way. but if they do plan on killing slash off for the sake of the "kill to survive" storyline (which i think is very important)... i don't think slash will survive long enough to make it to the next batch of micros.

I am not suggesting the frak of the month concept just why the turtles and a rat were used to experiment with and why the other animals were as well. Nothing more than the slection of the animals and the procedures done to them plus the Baxer/KRang connection being established!

[Redeemer]

I read this issue the other night and I am happy to say I enjoyed it more than I expected. The art by Andy surpassed my expections, much better than I thought it would be

Spoiler:

I love the fact that their lair is now in a abandon church/Nuke shelter!!!!! and is has a back exit to the sewer!!!!! I hope they dont kill slash off and make him a one shot character in the series, I wish he was about the size of the others or at least human size, mostly bc I think shredder could take him on as his pupil!!

[Turns]

I think the IDW Slash resembles Tokka much more closely in his appearance and his actions than he does the Archie Slash. Although I found the origin story for the Archie Slash to be pretty lame I liked his character a lot more than Tokka.

That being said, it was still a pretty exciting issue and I'm stoked to find out what's gonna happen in the next couple issues.

Maybe after Andy is relieved of his duty as the lead artist, Slash's depiction will more closely resemble that of the Archie slash. (If Slash lasts that long).

[Andrew NDB]

Somehow I get the impression Slash's IDW appearance is going to vary wildly between artists. I guess that's OK.

[DrSpengler]

Ross May's cover art for #16 is fastly becoming one of my favorite pieces of TMNT art period. I wouldn't mind a Slash that looked like THAT in the book-itself.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Ross May's cover art for #16 is fastly becoming one of my favorite pieces of TMNT art period. I wouldn't mind a Slash that looked like THAT in the book-itself.

I believe you meant Ross Campbell, my good doctor.

[Turns]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Somehow I get the impression Slash's IDW appearance is going to vary wildly between artists. I guess that's OK.

I agree. It keeps things interesting though.