Secret History of the Foot Clan #4 Discussion - Page 2

*Slade* · 03-20-2013, 04:50 PM

I hate to see this arc end. It was really good.
I didn't mind the manga line and I'm also glad Mikey got a new talent.

Spoiler:

*DrSpengler* · 03-20-2013, 07:47 PM

Here's my review of Secret History #4 at TMNT Entity.

Whew, it's been a busy day for reviewing.

I really think this may be my favorite storyline in the IDW-verse so far. Just such a great piece of work. For anyone looking to get into the IDW series, this is probably the best introductory arc as it works great by itself, but leaves plenty of questions open about the series to entice new readers to start from the beginning and get drawn in.

And I don't know if it was planned this way or what, but having both the Krang War and Secret History running simultaneously was an awesome way to open up the mythology of the IDW-verse from both the sci-fi and spiritual sides at the same time. The past four months have seen so much world building; I've been loving it.

And I like that Miller got to stick around as an abused intellectual lackey for the Foot. He makes a great parallel for Baxter, who is employed by Krang under similar circumstances.

I suppose my only question is... who was that Foot Soldier getting scarred over the eye in TMNT #2 if it wasn't Saki? Just a nobody?

*Ninjinister* · 03-20-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby Barrett

The "I can read more manga now" line irks me pretty bad, but otherwise, looking forward to the tpb coming out soon.

Why would it? It's super in-character for Mike.

*DrSpengler* · 03-20-2013, 08:15 PM

Just read the thread (I avoid these until I've read the whole issue for myself because I like to be a spoiler virgin).

The manga line was right up Mikey's alley. He's a comic book dork. I, personally, don't care for manga (even though I translate TMNT manga but that's different, dammit!), but I won't let my personal tastes affect how I view a character. Hell, even in the Mirage universe, Mikey was a fan of Ghibli movies and Japanese animation. His being a manga fan is perfectly fine.

And reading Erik's comment, I'm glad he changed the translation dealie from Don to Mike. not just because it gives Mikey something unique and it fits his persona of being open minded and wanting to connect with people, but because Don is still being shown having trouble accepting reincarnation as fact. I figure that until he can accept it, he'll probably have the most trouble of all his brothers when it comes to tapping into aspects of his previous life.

*TheCanadiandrome* · 03-20-2013, 11:55 PM

Going to get this soon. Manga line eh? Cool! I'd love some new manga

*ToTheNines* · 03-21-2013, 07:18 AM

I read this twice last night and can't help but feel a little disappointed.

Ever since seeing the shadowy outline of an android body in the preview cover for this issue way back in December, I always thought this would be the big Utrom connection issue. Imagine my surprise (and everyone elses, I'm sure) when the Iron Demon/Quanin showed up at the end of #1. Also, imagine my surprise when he was almost entirely absent in the following two issues. I didn't consider it a big deal with a whole issue left... but all we ended up getting was a flashforward to when Saki finally turned on him and "killed him" rather abruptly.

No clue as to why or how he ended up in this dimension, no real hint as to what exactly his final objective on Earth was. Furthermore, not too much happened in the present day setting either. Splinter and Shredder had a nice fight, but it was too short. There wasn't any hints toward Leo joining the Foot. Before we see the exact process of Saki's resurrection (which was pretty cool), Mike makes some offhand joke about it and kinda ruins it. The Ashi No Himitsu was unceremoniously destroyed. Alopex ended up having zero connection to Kitsune.

The art was great, of course. No one's going to argue that. My favorite panel was probably the flame arrows whizzing past Shredder.

corvus · 03-21-2013, 10:44 AM

No way that was Quanin. It's an unnamed utrom as far as we know. They killed him and destroyed his portal. It was a big revelation that there's a connection between Saki and utroms. They kind of lead us to believe he was Krang or Quanin but I think that was kind of unavoidable, utroms are hard to distinguish from one another.

*DrSpengler* · 03-21-2013, 10:48 AM

I took the scene as the Utrom getting kicked through the portal and THEN it exploding, not necessarily meaning the Utrom is dead.

And I suppose any unnamed Utrom could have taken on the grandiose identity of "Iron Demon", but I dunno. That seems wasted on a nobody. I'm still going with the presumption that it was Quanin at least until we're told otherwise.

EDIT: Also, I figured it was Quanin because he was shown with a tuning fork on the head of his robot body in the ongoing, a detail shared by the Iron Demon in Secret History.

Metropoliskid41 · 03-21-2013, 11:20 AM

An incredible issue, and a really incredible mini series, great story, perfect pacing, with some gorgeous art. I really hope we get to see a Secret History of the Utrom mini now follow it up, touch on Utrom exploration of our dimension, what Utrom the Iron Demon actually was, how he came to earth & essentially created Kitsune. We've known that Shredder & Krang have been "battling" or "rival" factions now since issue 1, that's how the turtles were mutated, this scratched the surface of that, but there is still more awesomness in their background & history to be explored & touched upon. When did Krang & the Utrom return to earth & so on. There is a lot of potential here, I hope Bobby taps Erik & Mateus to team-up & explore it in upcoming minis.

I really dug this mini, it added so much depth & new world building mythos to the Foot Clan. I can't wait to see what's next. Tip of the cap to all who were involved on this one over at IDW.

corvus · 03-21-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I took the scene as the Utrom getting kicked through the portal and THEN it exploding, not necessarily meaning the Utrom is dead.

And I suppose any unnamed Utrom could have taken on the grandiose identity of "Iron Demon", but I dunno. That seems wasted on a nobody. I'm still going with the presumption that it was Quanin at least until we're told otherwise.

EDIT: Also, I figured it was Quanin because his robot body in both the ongoing and Secre History has the tuning fork on its head which is a detail so far only Quanine has been shown to have (Krang's robot body lacks the tuning fork).

Read it once, didn't catch that bit where he was kicked through the portal. The exosuit made me think an older one, utroms live a long time and they probably upgrade their suits. I'm starting to think it was Quanin and then Krang, saki said he served it in two incarnations. That would explain Krangs knowledge of earth and his desire to destroy it.

Metropoliskid41 · 03-21-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corvus

Read it once, didn't catch that bit where he was kicked through the portal. The exosuit made me think an older one, utroms live a long time and they probably upgrade their suits. I'm starting to think it was Quanin and then Krang, saki said he served it in two incarnations. That would explain Krangs knowledge of earth and his desire to destroy it.

I took Saki's comment of serving it in two incarnations as meaning he himself (as in Saki) served the SAME Demon/Utrom twice, as the corrupt Foot Clan leader who his father slayed (sorry the name escapes me at the moment) and then again after he is reborn as Oraku Saki & raised by his father who murdered him in his previous life.

*ToTheNines* · 03-21-2013, 11:29 AM

Like Spengler said, look at the ongoing (#19) and it's pretty clear who Quanin is.

corvus · 03-21-2013, 11:44 AM

I saw that. But the suit is also a lot different than Quanins and its too different to just beartist interpretation. Which means it could be another utrom still. But...imagine Quanin falling through a portal and dying in his sons presence do to wounds he received from the foot cause I could see that happening and it'd be pretty cool.

*DrSpengler* · 03-21-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metropoliskid41

I took Saki's comment of serving it in two incarnations as meaning he himself (as in Saki) served the SAME Demon/Utrom twice, as the corrupt Foot Clan leader who his father slayed (sorry the name escapes me at the moment) and then again after he is reborn as Oraku Saki & raised by his father who murdered him in his previous life.

Yeah, that was how I read it, too. He served the Iron Demon once as Tatsuo Takeshi and then again as Oroku Saki.

Erik Burnham · 03-21-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I read this twice last night and can't help but feel a little disappointed.

Ever since seeing the shadowy outline of an android body in the preview cover for this issue way back in December, I always thought this would be the big Utrom connection issue. Imagine my surprise (and everyone elses, I'm sure) when the Iron Demon/Quanin showed up at the end of #1. Also, imagine my surprise when he was almost entirely absent in the following two issues. I didn't consider it a big deal with a whole issue left... but all we ended up getting was a flashforward to when Saki finally turned on him and "killed him" rather abruptly.

No clue as to why or how he ended up in this dimension, no real hint as to what exactly his final objective on Earth was. Furthermore, not too much happened in the present day setting either. Splinter and Shredder had a nice fight, but it was too short. There wasn't any hints toward Leo joining the Foot. Before we see the exact process of Saki's resurrection (which was pretty cool), Mike makes some offhand joke about it and kinda ruins it. The Ashi No Himitsu was unceremoniously destroyed. Alopex ended up having zero connection to Kitsune.

The art was great, of course. No one's going to argue that. My favorite panel was probably the flame arrows whizzing past Shredder.

Well, some things feed back into the main series (or potentially other micros.) Some things (Dark Leo tie-ins for example) didn't get any real estate because there wasn't any space. (:

And there was a line -- one of Mateus' -- about the Foot's first mutant (Alopex) being a fox because Shredder specifically wanted it that way. He liked the symbolism. But, really, it didn't work in the scene as well as we'd hoped. Could've been my failings there.

Still, there are a lot of ideas that should be touched on. Luckily there's many more turtle comics upcoming.

As an example, someone at a con asked me about Masato in the Splinter Micro. Said I should really have explained more about what happened to him. He seemed like a decent guy, how come he wasn't speaking up when Saki was getting crazy (back in TMNT #5?) Why didn't I acknowledge that?

Well, we know what happened to him now, nine months later, in another series. (:

Lotsa shuffling, guys, and especially, lots of hindsight. Nature of the beast. (:

corvus · 03-21-2013, 12:46 PM

Thank you for explaining that bit about Alopex. I've been saying for awhile there's no real connection between Alopex and Kitsune.

Martin · 03-21-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Burnham

Some things ( Dark Leo tie-ins for example) didn't get any real estate because there wasn't any space. (:

Whoa, I like what I'm reading there...

I'm still waiting for my copies down here in argentina. I really hope that digital comics will be available for people outside the us at some point in the future. It's really hard for me to stay away from other sources while I wait for my trades to get here. Patience is a virtue I guess

Erik Burnham · 03-21-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinf

Whoa, I like what I'm reading there...

I'm still waiting for my copies down here in argentina. I really hope that digital comics will be available for people outside the us at some point in the future. It's really hard for me to stay away from other sources while I wait for my trades to get here. Patience is a virtue I guess

I was just riffing on Nines' specific comment about Leo joining the Foot. (:

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 03-21-2013, 04:30 PM

One question I do have though; Does the Kitsune Witch have a name? (If it were me, I'd call her Pimiko, from the Mirage character. And her Daughter of the same name with Saki would be Karai's ancestor.)

*Redeemer* · 03-21-2013, 04:34 PM

This mini-series was A-mazing!!!!! I love this mini series!!!!
Good job IDW

This mini series is my favorite of the entire series so far!!!!!

03-20-2013, 04:50 PM	#21
Slade god status Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Louisiana Posts: 3,291	I hate to see this arc end. It was really good. I didn't mind the manga line and I'm also glad Mikey got a new talent. Spoiler: Also, I'm thinking there won't be an alliance between Shredder and Krang. Especially sine Saki attacked the "iron demon". __________________ Do not concern yourself with what I've already done: rather tremble at the thought of what I am about to do. Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=48140

03-20-2013, 11:55 PM	#25
TheCanadiandrome Big, Bad & Bold Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Inside the Technodrome; Shredderville; Saskatchewan Posts: 19,719	Going to get this soon. Manga line eh? Cool! I'd love some new manga __________________ Add me: PSN/XBL; Nintendo Network ID: BDS-3.1.6; Switch FC: SW-3378-5206-8020 TMNT Fan Club: http://sot.ag/4jZR0 Visit My Wish List: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=30904 My Collection: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=40276

03-21-2013, 07:18 AM	#26
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,220	I read this twice last night and can't help but feel a little disappointed. Ever since seeing the shadowy outline of an android body in the preview cover for this issue way back in December, I always thought this would be the big Utrom connection issue. Imagine my surprise (and everyone elses, I'm sure) when the Iron Demon/Quanin showed up at the end of #1. Also, imagine my surprise when he was almost entirely absent in the following two issues. I didn't consider it a big deal with a whole issue left... but all we ended up getting was a flashforward to when Saki finally turned on him and "killed him" rather abruptly. No clue as to why or how he ended up in this dimension, no real hint as to what exactly his final objective on Earth was. Furthermore, not too much happened in the present day setting either. Splinter and Shredder had a nice fight, but it was too short. There wasn't any hints toward Leo joining the Foot. Before we see the exact process of Saki's resurrection (which was pretty cool), Mike makes some offhand joke about it and kinda ruins it. The Ashi No Himitsu was unceremoniously destroyed. Alopex ended up having zero connection to Kitsune. The art was great, of course. No one's going to argue that. My favorite panel was probably the flame arrows whizzing past Shredder. Last edited by ToTheNines; 03-21-2013 at 07:25 AM.

03-21-2013, 10:44 AM	#27
corvus Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2012 Location: London Posts: 783	No way that was Quanin. It's an unnamed utrom as far as we know. They killed him and destroyed his portal. It was a big revelation that there's a connection between Saki and utroms. They kind of lead us to believe he was Krang or Quanin but I think that was kind of unavoidable, utroms are hard to distinguish from one another. __________________

03-21-2013, 10:48 AM	#28
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	I took the scene as the Utrom getting kicked through the portal and THEN it exploding, not necessarily meaning the Utrom is dead. And I suppose any unnamed Utrom could have taken on the grandiose identity of "Iron Demon", but I dunno. That seems wasted on a nobody. I'm still going with the presumption that it was Quanin at least until we're told otherwise. EDIT: Also, I figured it was Quanin because he was shown with a tuning fork on the head of his robot body in the ongoing, a detail shared by the Iron Demon in Secret History. Last edited by DrSpengler; 03-21-2013 at 11:24 AM.

03-20-2013, 07:47 PM	#22
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Here's my review of Secret History #4 at TMNT Entity. Whew, it's been a busy day for reviewing. I really think this may be my favorite storyline in the IDW-verse so far. Just such a great piece of work. For anyone looking to get into the IDW series, this is probably the best introductory arc as it works great by itself, but leaves plenty of questions open about the series to entice new readers to start from the beginning and get drawn in. And I don't know if it was planned this way or what, but having both the Krang War and Secret History running simultaneously was an awesome way to open up the mythology of the IDW-verse from both the sci-fi and spiritual sides at the same time. The past four months have seen so much world building; I've been loving it. And I like that Miller got to stick around as an abused intellectual lackey for the Foot. He makes a great parallel for Baxter, who is employed by Krang under similar circumstances. I suppose my only question is... who was that Foot Soldier getting scarred over the eye in TMNT #2 if it wasn't Saki? Just a nobody?

03-20-2013, 08:15 PM	#24
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Just read the thread (I avoid these until I've read the whole issue for myself because I like to be a spoiler virgin). The manga line was right up Mikey's alley. He's a comic book dork. I, personally, don't care for manga (even though I translate TMNT manga but that's different, dammit!), but I won't let my personal tastes affect how I view a character. Hell, even in the Mirage universe, Mikey was a fan of Ghibli movies and Japanese animation. His being a manga fan is perfectly fine. And reading Erik's comment, I'm glad he changed the translation dealie from Don to Mike. not just because it gives Mikey something unique and it fits his persona of being open minded and wanting to connect with people, but because Don is still being shown having trouble accepting reincarnation as fact. I figure that until he can accept it, he'll probably have the most trouble of all his brothers when it comes to tapping into aspects of his previous life.

03-21-2013, 11:20 AM	#29
Metropoliskid41 Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Tundra Posts: 886	An incredible issue, and a really incredible mini series, great story, perfect pacing, with some gorgeous art. I really hope we get to see a Secret History of the Utrom mini now follow it up, touch on Utrom exploration of our dimension, what Utrom the Iron Demon actually was, how he came to earth & essentially created Kitsune. We've known that Shredder & Krang have been "battling" or "rival" factions now since issue 1, that's how the turtles were mutated, this scratched the surface of that, but there is still more awesomness in their background & history to be explored & touched upon. When did Krang & the Utrom return to earth & so on. There is a lot of potential here, I hope Bobby taps Erik & Mateus to team-up & explore it in upcoming minis. I really dug this mini, it added so much depth & new world building mythos to the Foot Clan. I can't wait to see what's next. Tip of the cap to all who were involved on this one over at IDW. __________________ -------------------

03-21-2013, 11:29 AM	#32
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,220	Like Spengler said, look at the ongoing (#19) and it's pretty clear who Quanin is.

03-21-2013, 11:44 AM	#33
corvus Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2012 Location: London Posts: 783	I saw that. But the suit is also a lot different than Quanins and its too different to just beartist interpretation. Which means it could be another utrom still. But...imagine Quanin falling through a portal and dying in his sons presence do to wounds he received from the foot cause I could see that happening and it'd be pretty cool. __________________

03-21-2013, 12:46 PM	#36
corvus Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2012 Location: London Posts: 783	Thank you for explaining that bit about Alopex. I've been saying for awhile there's no real connection between Alopex and Kitsune. __________________

03-21-2013, 04:30 PM	#39
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	One question I do have though; Does the Kitsune Witch have a name? (If it were me, I'd call her Pimiko, from the Mirage character. And her Daughter of the same name with Saki would be Karai's ancestor.) __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket.

03-21-2013, 04:34 PM	#40
Redeemer Technodrome Technician Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: third earth Posts: 4,737	This mini-series was A-mazing!!!!! I love this mini series!!!! Good job IDW This mini series is my favorite of the entire series so far!!!!! __________________ GT:Reedeamer *THE TECHNODROME REDESIGN 2015* http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=51594