I like the Nick toon so far, but...

[Martin]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I love how people have double standards. TMNT can't have a kids cartoon, yet Batman/Spiderman, etc. can all have kids cartoons, movies aimed at adults, and comic books all at the same time and nobody cares.

Yet if TMNT has a kids cartoon people think its something different? WTF>

I think the thing about the double standards isn't so much about not having tmnt meant for kids, but rather how a lot of times things that are meant for more mature audiences have to be toned down in case kids happen to read it. Personally I'd love to see grittier and darker turtles, but I understand that the demographic that wants something like that probably isn't that big.

[Konchadunga]

For me, dark and gritty is never synonymous with good; though not with bad, either. I like my turtles using their blades and willing to kill when necessary, but ultimately I prefer Peter Laird's fantasy kitchen sink take on the Mirage series to Kevin Eastman's urban, Miller-esque take. I prefer the stuff with the Fugitoid, aliens, Renet, etc to stories where the Turtles are always in New York only doing New Yorker/ninja things. Above all else, I think TMNT should be fun and outlandish.

[MothraLeo]

Thanks for the replies! I will get to individual questions in a bit (I'm at work), but I want mention that I think some of you may be reading more into my comments than what I wrote. I love the Nick toon so far. Imentioned a couple times that I enjoyed it.

I think I will walk back a bit from the idea that the Legacy is being "tarnished," though. I really meant that from the perspective of PL. I certainly don't mean to speak for him. But I asked him about 2k3 and he did say it was the best incarnation that tried for the spirit of the comics. He also mentioned he Didn't care for some of the things he had seen about the Nick toon or IDW, but he was quick to mention he hadn't seen any episodes or read any issues at that time.

I will get to more later, I should get back to work.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

I think I will walk back a bit from the idea that the Legacy is being "tarnished," though. I really meant that from the perspective of PL. I certainly don't mean to speak for him. But I asked him about 2k3 and he did say it was the best incarnation that tried for the spirit of the comics. He also mentioned he Didn't care for some of the things he had seen about the Nick toon or IDW, but he was quick to mention he hadn't seen any episodes or read any issues at that time.

Peter Laird is only one creator of TMNT. He generally wants things done "by the books" with only a few alterations like the 4kids series did. Kevin Eastman allows other writers to have more freedom with the franchise.

I also can't comprehend why you're basing what you should like on what PL likes. Since when is someone incapable of forming their own opinion?

[Electric]

This series is just another incarnation that appeals to some, and not to other, it just depends on preference and what everyone wants in TMNT. For me, i really didnt care for the original tv series, it wasnt serious enough. The 2k3 series i liked more, but it was almost too serious and dark for my tastes, and got out of hand towards the end. This new series i think balances out most of the TMNT incarnations and to me, is the best.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

For me, dark and gritty is never synonymous with good; though not with bad, either. I like my turtles using their blades and willing to kill when necessary, but ultimately I prefer Peter Laird's fantasy kitchen sink take on the Mirage series to Kevin Eastman's urban, Miller-esque take. I prefer the stuff with the Fugitoid, aliens, Renet, etc to stories where the Turtles are always in New York only doing New Yorker/ninja things. Above all else, I think TMNT should be fun and outlandish.

Ok, I'm confuse. I always thought that Kevin was the fantasical and that Peter was one that wrote the more grounded stories in the TMNT.

[Konchadunga]

I forgot where I read that, but if I recall correctly, Laird was a big Scifi buff, while Eastman was the one who was into other indie comics; particularly Frank Miller. I think it can be found just by Googling "Kevin Eastman Interview," though.

[Refractive Reflections]

...Say what?

"How detrimental the cartoon was to the comics"? It did just the opposite, it helped give the Mirage comics a surge of popularity and brought TMNT to the mainstream.

I can understand people not enjoying the direction of the 80s toon in terms of its action and comedy from a hindsight perspective or personal taste, especially in comparison with the other versions, but it was the 80s and its unfair to be excessively critical of the series. Censorship back then was FAR more stringent, and the cartoon was already being considered as too "violent" by soccer moms at that time period because kids were acting out the fighting scenes and hurting themselves with homemade nunchucks. Even the word "ninja" was deemed too much overseas in Britain.
It's far too easy to complain about the past and everything that was "wrong" with it, but one has to look at events and culture from that time to have the proper historical perspective of that time period, and that has to be applied here with the OT.

...And the 80s cartoon changing Mirage? That's a pretty extreme statement to claim, you'll have to give some supporting examples and their timing with the cartoon to make some of these Technodrome users even listen to your argument.

[The Sewer Lord]

Originally Posted by JYX

...Say what?

"How detrimental the cartoon was to the comics"? It did just the opposite, it helped give the Mirage comics a surge of popularity and brought TMNT to the mainstream.

I can understand people not enjoying the direction of the 80s toon in terms of its action and comedy from a hindsight perspective or personal taste, especially in comparison with the other versions, but it was the 80s and its unfair to be excessively critical of the series. Censorship back then was FAR more stringent, and the cartoon was already being considered as too "violent" by soccer moms at that time period because kids were acting out the fighting scenes and hurting themselves with homemade nunchucks. Even the word "ninja" was deemed too much overseas in Britain.
It's far too easy to complain about the past and everything that was "wrong" with it, but one has to look at events and culture from that time to have the proper historical perspective of that time period, and that has to be applied here with the OT.

...And the 80s cartoon changing Mirage? That's a pretty extreme statement to claim, you'll have to give some supporting examples and their timing with the cartoon to make some of these Technodrome users even listen to your argument.

Completely agree.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by JYX

Censorship back then was FAR more stringent, and the cartoon was already being considered as too "violent" by soccer moms at that time period because kids were acting out the fighting scenes and hurting themselves with homemade nunchucks.

Seriously; can somebody explain to me how the shell "soccer mom" came to mean "conservative?" That slang term perturbs me every time it appears online.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Seriously; can somebody explain to me how the shell "soccer mom" came to mean "conservative?" That slang term perturbs me every time it appears online.

Really...? You'll have to explain how it exactly "perturbs" you, just curious...

I don't think it necessarily means "conservative" (in terms of politics) but possibly, more or less overprotective and/or overbearing mothers of their children which could be seen as conservative.

Thank goodness for Wikipedia to explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_mom

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Jester

Andrew, why you make a 2nd account?

Lmao! Oh dear, my poor sides..

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, this is just all kinds of stupid. The new cartoon isn't tarnishing the legacy of TMNT. If anything, it's bringing the Turtles to a new generation of fans. And who cares what PL thinks? If he doesn't like it, then maybe he shouldn't have sold it to Nick. But guess what? He did so he really doesn't have a say in what they do.

[CyberCubed]

This thread needs to be closed. It would be different if there was some sort of valid argument about the Nick show being for kids only, but there isn't.

And despising the OT for somehow damaging the comics? I still can't wrap my head around that one as Mirage ignored the cartoon entirely and didn't use any of its characters.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This thread needs to be closed. It would be different if there was some sort of valid argument about the Nick show being for kids only, but there isn't.

And despising the OT for somehow damaging the comics? I still can't wrap my head around that one as Mirage ignored the cartoon entirely and didn't use any of its characters.

Why are you always so quick to close threads?

[MothraLeo]

Wow, you guys. I don't know where to begin responding. Am I not allowed to have an opinion here?

First of all, most of the responses aren't even to things I actually say. I have made it clear that I enjoy this show. Very clear, in fact. I only expressed my annoyance that things which were intentionally put to bed (by one of the creators of the whole franchise) are being brought back. I would rather new and interesting characters be brought back than head-scratchers like Slash and Bebop and Rocksteady. If you like the 80's toon, then that is wonderful! You are absolutely entitled, and I would never want to say the things to you which have been said to me already in this young thread. Sheesh. I guess fans of the original comic aren't allowed here? Or can we stay as long as we don't speak ill of the Barney-style TMNT?

I love what this toon has done with lots of it. Shredder is better than 80's version. They have caught on that fans really wanted more of a Leo/Karai arc. Splinter is very interesting. Leatherhead is very well done.

Not so keen on a teenage, psychic April O'Neil, though. And the mutagen is back to the 80's thing. The mutants also always look really, really stupid.

My comment about the nerfing of the comics was based on a note in the back of one of the Return to New York comics. They compared it to Batman (although we have clearly seen that Batman can also be dark in this day and age). This is not really debate here. Peter did not want there to be stuff like "Bodycount" while little kids liked the old toon, and they split up over it. But I FULLY realize that I may not even had known about it if it weren't for the cartoon. Does that mean I can't have an opinion about the objective truth of the effect on the comics, though?

I have so much more to say on this subject, but I'm not sure I will get an honest discourse.

[Martin]

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

Wow, you guys. I don't know where to begin responding. Am I not allowed to have an opinion here?

I think your problem is how you word things. Example:

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

The mutants also always look really, really stupid silly

See? Isn't that much nicer? Now try doing that with pretty much everything you wrote.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MothraLeo

Wow, you guys. I don't know where to begin responding. Am I not allowed to have an opinion here?

First of all, most of the responses aren't even to things I actually say. I have made it clear that I enjoy this show. Very clear, in fact. I only expressed my annoyance that things which were intentionally put to bed (by one of the creators of the whole franchise) are being brought back. I would rather new and interesting characters be brought back than head-scratchers like Slash and Bebop and Rocksteady. If you like the 80's toon, then that is wonderful! You are absolutely entitled, and I would never want to say the things to you which have been said to me already in this young thread. Sheesh. I guess fans of the original comic aren't allowed here? Or can we stay as long as we don't speak ill of the Barney-style TMNT?

I love what this toon has done with lots of it. Shredder is better than 80's version. They have caught on that fans really wanted more of a Leo/Karai arc. Splinter is very interesting. Leatherhead is very well done.

Not so keen on a teenage, psychic April O'Neil, though. And the mutagen is back to the 80's thing. The mutants also always look really, really stupid.

My comment about the nerfing of the comics was based on a note in the back of one of the Return to New York comics. They compared it to Batman (although we have clearly seen that Batman can also be dark in this day and age). This is not really debate here. Peter did not want there to be stuff like "Bodycount" while little kids liked the old toon, and they split up over it. But I FULLY realize that I may not even had known about it if it weren't for the cartoon. Does that mean I can't have an opinion about the objective truth of the effect on the comics, though?

I have so much more to say on this subject, but I'm not sure I will get an honest discourse.

Why do you call Slash a "silly head scratcher?"

I'm confused as to why you're fine with Nick's mutants or the 4kids characters yet you find Slash silly? What?

And what the hell is "Barney TMNT?" Stop the nonsense.

[Coola Yagami]

I don't see where they're coming from. No kids even knew the comics existed back then. They weren't exactly sitting right next to the latest issue of Spiderman or Batman ya know.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why do you call Slash a "silly head scratcher?"

I'm confused as to why you're fine with Nick's mutants or the 4kids characters yet you find Slash silly? What?

And what the hell is "Barney TMNT?" Stop the nonsense.

Have you seen Slash in the 80's cartoon...? And you know the 80's TMNT are super tame compared to what we have today. Even the wannabe Dark Red Sky seasons.